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Any chance Yusei Kikuchi turns it around or is that signing a bust? Looks like his peripherals were stronger in 2020 at least.
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Dec 30, 2020 17:51
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drat, I totally missed that Niekro died. Very belated RIP. His statue in Atlanta is pretty rad. They captured his grip really well.
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Dec 30, 2020 18:10
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The Cubs definitely lucked their way into a World Series by playing and beating the only other loser franchise that is as inept at winning as them. One of them had to win and the coin just fell on the cubs side with a gift rain storm It was the MLB equivalent of the Browns and the Lions playing in the Super Bowl
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Dec 30, 2020 18:35
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Very lucky to have won 103 games in the regular season
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Dec 30, 2020 18:44
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To be fair they did not have to face the juggernaut NL superteam Dodgers.
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Dec 30, 2020 19:05
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R.D. Mangles posted:To be fair they did not have to face the juggernaut NL superteam Dodgers. Yeah, it would have sucked if they had to face Kershaw twice.
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Dec 30, 2020 19:10
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Popete posted:Very lucky to have won 103 games in the regular season Getting to beat the poo poo out of the Pirates and Reds all year will do that
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Dec 30, 2020 19:16
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Every title has a good dose of luck in it, such is the nature of baseball. Often this comes in the form of random mediocre/kinda good players getting hot at the right time (WS MVP David Eckstein, wild card teams going all the way, the 1988 Dodgers, etc). I just thought it was interesting the Cubs version was like half the roster having career years all at once. It is weird to me that cubsposters of all people would take offense to this observation.
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Dec 30, 2020 19:18
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bawfuls posted:Every title has a good dose of luck in it, such is the nature of baseball. Often this comes in the form of random mediocre players getting hot at the right time (WS MVP David Eckstein, wild card teams going all the way, the 1988 Dodgers, etc). I just thought it was interesting the Cubs version was like half the roster having career years all at once. Same thing happened to the White Sox
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Dec 30, 2020 19:19
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Popete posted:Very lucky to have won 103 games in the regular season Likewise this run of Dodgers teams is imo the best in franchise history and I feel incredibly lucky to be able to enjoy it firsthand.
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Dec 30, 2020 19:25
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Nodoze posted:Same thing happened to the White Sox Along those lines - what team is the “worst” post-war World Series winner ever? Counting out the 1981 strike year and the cheating Astros, it’s gotta be either the 87 Twins or 05 White Sox, right? Maybe the 11 Cardinals?
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Dec 30, 2020 19:29
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The 90s Braves by both this inane measurement and by any eyeball test were one of the great teams of all time with maybe the best rotation and they still only scraped one World Series, to some degree because August acquisition Luis Polonia came up clutch a few times. Sports are small sample sizes, small sample sizes are sports.
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Dec 30, 2020 19:31
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2011 cardinals won 90 games. The 2014 Giants won 88, and the 2006 Cardinals won 83
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Dec 30, 2020 19:33
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bawfuls posted:From a fan perspective literally yes. If you don’t feel lucky when your team wins 100 games you’re not doing baseball fandom right. That many wins is rare and unlikely even for a very good roster, that Cubs team only did it once after all. 103 wins isn't a bad team getting lucky, yes many of the players had career years but over 162 game season if you can sustain having a career year then I'd say it's legit. It's not like the Cubs immediately dropped to a 60 win team the next season, they had a good run albeit at the end it was more due to the rest of the Central being terrible. The Royals winning in 2015 I would say was closer to a team "lucking" into a World Series, although their bullpen was truly amazing and that's the kinda difference maker that can carry a weak offense through the post season. They dropped off pretty significantly the next year though.
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Dec 30, 2020 19:38
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So out of all of this the real underlying message, such that there is one, is that putting the conditions in place to make a championship run involves a lot of hard work and usually money—to the point that a lot of teams just don't even bother!—and having done all that work and put in all that money it's really stupid to then turn around and do seemingly everything you can to rush toward a "rebuild" that likely as not won't get you back to that level.
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Dec 30, 2020 19:43
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bawfuls posted:It is weird to me that cubsposters of all people would take offense to this observation. i've responded the most and im not a cubs fan, i think the conversation has been reasonable with good back and forth and it's not really necessary to get a bit huffy that folks don't agree with your hot take the cubs are only the 3rd best team of the last half decade the horror
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Dec 30, 2020 19:45
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Popete posted:The Royals winning in 2015 I would say was closer to a team "lucking" into a World Series, although their bullpen was truly amazing and that's the kinda difference maker that can carry a weak offense through the post season. They dropped off pretty significantly the next year though. My point is more that all baseball championships require some degree of good fortune and we can appreciate them for they manner in which they do. The more common version is a team "overperforming" in October. Both the Dodgers 80's championships fall into this category imo, the '81 team was getting old, with a core that peaked in the 70's losing 3 WS in 5 years before taking advantage of the strike-split year in '81 and riding Fernando over the hump. The '88 team had no business beating the 100-win Mets but they did because October baseball is chaos. The Cubs version was kind of the opposite. That 2016 team was clearly the best team in baseball that year (107 pythag wins) as well as the best Cubs team of that era. The good luck was that all their best players timed their best Cubs seasons to coincide at once, including older pitchers not just young prospects who one might expect to peak simultaneously. elentar posted:So out of all of this the real underlying message, such that there is one, is that putting the conditions in place to make a championship run involves a lot of hard work and usually money—to the point that a lot of teams just don't even bother!—and having done all that work and put in all that money it's really stupid to then turn around and do seemingly everything you can to rush toward a "rebuild" that likely as not won't get you back to that level. bawfuls fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Dec 30, 2020 |
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Dec 30, 2020 19:54
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bawfuls posted:Every title has a good dose of luck in it, such is the nature of baseball. Often this comes in the form of random mediocre/kinda good players getting hot at the right time (WS MVP David Eckstein, wild card teams going all the way, the 1988 Dodgers, etc). I just thought it was interesting the Cubs version was like half the roster having career years all at once. Hendricks, Bryant, Fowler, and Russell had career years. By WAR Rizzo was actually slightly better in 2015, Javy was at that time still a utility player who occasionally hit big dingers but otherwise couldn't hit for poo poo, Zobrist was solid as hell but was a far cry from his 2009-2013 peak, Heyward was dogshit, Schwarber spent most of the season on crutches. Lester, Lackey, and Arietta were excellent but none of them peaked that year, and Hammel skated by the first half on smoke and mirrors before crashing and burning in hilarious fashion because he didn't eat enough potato chips. Let's... not talk about the Cubs 2016 bullpen, they were definitely lucky that the starting pitching clicked so well that year because ho boy. Anyway seems weirder to me that you feel the need to go back and relitigate how luck based the 2016 WS win was? Don't you have your own, much more recent WS championship to celebrate instead?
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Dec 30, 2020 20:03
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Sydin posted:Anyway seems weirder to me that you feel the need to go back and relitigate how luck based the 2016 WS win was? Don't you have your own, much more recent WS championship to celebrate instead?
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Dec 30, 2020 20:05
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bawfuls posted:2011 cardinals won 90 games. The 2014 Giants won 88, and the 2006 Cardinals won 83 yeah the 06 Cardinals were the first team that came to mind for me
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Dec 30, 2020 20:07
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sorry I thought the day/week the Cubs finally pulled the trigger on blowing it all up was an appropriate time for retrospective offseason posting about their recent run it was a hot take in the dead of winter intended to generate some discussion, and it succeeded in that regard
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Dec 30, 2020 20:08
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The 2016 Cubs were just like any other world series winner - things went as well as they could in a small sample size of games. I'm pretty ok with them winning like 500 games over a 6 year stretch that includes a 60 game season. As plenty of people pointed out, and as a Dodgers fan (I'm sure) understands, the post-season is usually a crap shoot that the best team occasionally wins. The 2015 Cubs were better than the 2015 Mets during the season but who would have known someone activated Super Saiyan Daniel Murphy? tadashi fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Dec 30, 2020 |
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Dec 30, 2020 20:09
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In other point and laugh at the Cubs news, Hoyer came out and gave his presser today on the trade, and assured us in no uncertain terms that the payroll had NOTHING to do with the Darvish trade, this was just about having an eye towards the future after having so many trades focused on the present. You see, these are actually all super incredibly talented prospects the Cubs scouted intensely and this is a secret steal the Padres will live to regret, just you wait! So in case you were afraid don't worry, Hoyer will carry on Theo's time honored tradition of insulting the fans intelligence by just bald faced lying to their faces. 
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Dec 30, 2020 20:14
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tadashi posted:The 2016 Cubs were just like any other world series winner - things went as well as they could in a small sample size of games. Best part was the cubs later signing daniel murphy who dropped a giant, steaming pile in the clubhouse.
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Dec 30, 2020 20:17
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Sydin posted:Don't you have your own, much more recent WS championship to celebrate instead?  tadashi posted:The 2015 Cubs were better than the 2015 Mets during the season but who would have known someone activated Super Saiyan Daniel Murphy? 
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Dec 30, 2020 20:21
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New topic for discussion: it's kinda messed up that three of the last four championships are illegitimate. The Red Sox and Astros won* the World Series, and the Dodgers won the World Series*. Bad for the sport, IMO.
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Dec 30, 2020 20:23
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IcePhoenix posted:yeah the 06 Cardinals were the first team that came to mind for me That’s the one I was thinking of. Don’t know why I always conflate the 06 and 11 teams. I’m not saying any of these teams were “bad” per se. there’s obviously a lot of luck that goes with the talent and skill to even get there, let alone win it all. Some teams obviously have a lot more luck than others tho - those 06 Cardinals are a perfect example. When I think back about “dominant” teams that won the Series, the 1987 Twins, 2005 White Sox and 2006 Cardinals don’t exactly come to mind. They fall more into that “wow, how the hell did that happen?” category.
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Dec 30, 2020 20:32
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The 08 Phillies being the team that won a World Series and not one of the later, better teams is Baseball gently caress Cody Ross
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Dec 30, 2020 20:32
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https://twitter.com/24_7Farnsworth/status/1344095425113022465?s=20
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Dec 30, 2020 20:36
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Actually I came up with this formula B.A.L.L.S = Bunts Above Linedrives Longballs Singles
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Dec 30, 2020 20:40
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:The 08 Phillies being the team that won a World Series and not one of the later, better teams is Baseball On the other hand it got Pat the Bat a ring with the Phils so I'm okay with it. Shame that Halladay and Lee couldn't win a ring though. The Cubs run reminds me a lot of that Phils run, and hopefully the collapse is just as quick.
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Dec 30, 2020 20:42
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Rowdiness Above Replacement
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Dec 30, 2020 20:52
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i'm sorry for my previous posting out of my lane here i'll try to stay on track 
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Dec 30, 2020 20:55
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That's a nice piece of metal.
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Dec 30, 2020 20:58
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^^^ hissssss ^^^ That's a beautiful hunk of metal. For real though it's easy to be mad at the Cubs beginning a tank, but I think it will be a quick tank and not a franchise tank like the Pirates. Money is hosed up. And like somebody else said, in a vacuum 2015-19 were great and anybody would have asked for them during the previous tank.
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Dec 30, 2020 20:58
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I'm not mad that the Cubs are going to tank, I'm mad that they didn't even really get a decent return off one of their most valuable trade pieces. If Darvish had brought back a top 10 guy or two from the Padres then I'd be sad but quite understanding of why the trade happened. Instead we traded him for 4 lottery tickets and one year of dollar store Hendricks. Also I fail to see how it can be a quick tank when the first big trade they made brought in a bunch of teenagers who - barring incredible MiLB breakouts - are like 2024-2025 guys.
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Dec 30, 2020 21:09
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Escalator resets after just one year below CBT. Not to say that they're gonna exceed in 2022 or anything, but if there are free agent opportunities available then or 2023 that can lead into a surge of young players, they'll do it I'm actually pretty sad about Caratini, I follow a lot of Cub instagrams and he was ALWAYS present in peoples' stories (in the Before Times). I got the sense he was a real popular locker room guy.
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Dec 30, 2020 21:38
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bawfuls posted:2011 cardinals won 90 games. The 2014 Giants won 88, and the 2006 Cardinals won 83 Wasn’t it the 2011 Cardinals who had to win like 11 of their last 13 games to even make the postseason? Talk about getting hot.
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Dec 30, 2020 21:46
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The Pussy Boss posted:Any chance Yusei Kikuchi turns it around or is that signing a bust? Looks like his peripherals were stronger in 2020 at least. His mechanics improved significantly last year, and his numbers were pretty much "good process, bad results." His ERA was roughly the same but his HRs and hits went down, and his strikeouts went up, and his FIP matches that. He cleaned up his delivery and got an extra 3mph on his fastball so I think if he plays at that level the luck will turn the other way especially behind some decent defense.
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Dec 30, 2020 22:28
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Expanded playoffs has to play in there. Why try when you can stumble into the playoffs, maybe hit the dice roll, and make a good run?
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Dec 30, 2020 22:45
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