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Just thinking aloud, but out of 1300 habitable systems and there's really no nice little planets or moons with 0.3g or less gravity that belters would be comfortable on?
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Dec 31, 2020 05:15
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GuardianOfAsgaard posted:Just thinking aloud, but out of 1300 habitable systems and there's really no nice little planets or moons with 0.3g or less gravity that belters would be comfortable on? Then they wouldn't be belters anymore.
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Dec 31, 2020 05:23
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Baronjutter posted:I don't understand marco's plan beside doing a revenge genocide on earth's working class for daring to be under the same boot as belters. He says belters can't settle on any of the ring worlds due to the gravity there, and the ones who did would cease to be belters. But he wants earth and mars restricted to their atmosphere and denied access to space because space should belong to belters. He just doesn't want anyone settling new planets, even belters. He just wants to spread low gravity space-based belter society through the ring gates and leave the planets unsettled? He's a nationalist, not a socialist. I'm not sure nationalist is the best term, but it's the closest to how he views Belter identity in relation to identities that currently exist. The Belter frustration with Inners reflects some of the frustrations seen in historical colonies, where natives could never reach the social status of colonials. The Tycho Chief Engineer basically says as much in the latest episode. Holden's question about why she would be loyal to Inaros when she was educated and had a good job is particularly interesting. In real life, the indigenous "middle class" in colonies often formed an important core for a resistance movement to form around. The big difference from real life, is that most anti-colonial revolutionaries refrained from attacking civilians in the home territory of the colonial power. Terrorist attacks by non-state groups that were intended to cause mass casualties really only kicked off after decolonization in most of the world. The weird thing in the show really is the lack of any sort of cross-planet working class sentiment at all, particularly since the OPA has a lot of anarchist symbolism. Yet in the show the Belt leadership we see is an Earther closely tied to a major corporation and a Belter chauvinist. Presumably Fred Johnson and his comrades killed most of the competent, principled leftists in the Belt back when he was in the UN Marine Corps.
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Dec 31, 2020 05:27
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Probably because "They're not like us, they're [whatever ethnic slur you have for the planet they're from]" And unlike in the real world, they're basically 100% insulated from interacting with each other. An Earther on basic will probably never leave the town they're born on, let alone meet a dockworker on Ceres. Defiance Industries fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Dec 31, 2020 |
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Dec 31, 2020 05:31
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Atrocious Joe posted:He's a nationalist, not a socialist. I don't think Earth really has a working class.
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Dec 31, 2020 05:33
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Zazz Razzamatazz posted:I don't think Earth really has a working class. They go more into the labor system in the books, but it's this huge loving racket where people work entry-level jobs to prove that they can hold down a job and therefore are "worth" investing further education and training in. It makes internships sound positively reasonable. I also assume that, like the waiting list for vocational training, the amount of time it takes regular people to actually move out of these positions takes decades. Defiance Industries fucked around with this message at 05:38 on Dec 31, 2020 |
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Dec 31, 2020 05:35
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Earth's brand of horrifying capitalism has essentially eliminated the working class (they have either robots or Belters to do all the actual work) and replaced it with a.... desperately anesthetized surplus class? The UN's main mission is providing just enough bread and circuses that nothing explodes while restricting reproduction and trying to tough it out another 80-100 years for the population to decline enough that they can get some breathing room.
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Dec 31, 2020 05:43
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Defiance Industries posted:They go more into the labor system in the books, but it's this huge loving racket where people work entry-level jobs to prove that they can hold down a job and therefore are "worth" investing further education and training in. It makes internships sound positively reasonable. Yeah every job and training program has either a massive waiting list or a lottery system, unless you are rich and have connections.
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Dec 31, 2020 05:44
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Zazz Razzamatazz posted:I don't think Earth really has a working class. We see a few examples of people from Earth working in the Belt. The Canterbury had a mixed crew, and Clarissa Mao infiltrated a maintenance crew from Earth.
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Dec 31, 2020 05:49
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The problem is there's like 30 billion people on Earth and even with the sprawling solar empire there's only like 5 billion jobs (3.5 billion of which go to some UN delegate's grand-nephew's college roommate), the ones we see working in space are the super lucky ones who's lottery number got pulled.
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Dec 31, 2020 05:54
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Peaches getting a maintenance job just seems really hard to believe. I guess she would just have enough money to pay people off, but you'd think there would be more scrutiny in who has that job when there are billions of people trying to get work on Earth. All these people want a job and she just makes a fake identity and gets a job on the exact ship she needs to be on.
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Dec 31, 2020 05:59
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One thing to remember about Marco is that his grand plan predates the ring gates (hence the belter in season 1 getting gravity tortured re: smuggling stealth composites). He's always been an opportunistic terrorist, and the opening of the gates and its subsequent shifting of the political climate on Mars just made his job easier. The attack happening *now* didn't really have anything to do directly with the gates and the new worlds, but he has to make it sound like this is all part of his scheme rather than just the first time he's had the chance to actually carry out attacks at this scale. He basically hit the jackpot by being lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time to take advantage of Mars'a going out of business sale, and now he's trying to convince everyone that he's been playing 3-D chess all along. In fact strategically speaking this is a lovely time to be attacking Earth since they're getting along with Mars (and a lot of OPA factions) now. Way easier for them to unite and retaliate against him.
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Dec 31, 2020 06:01
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Crazycryodude posted:Earth's brand of horrifying capitalism has essentially eliminated the working class (they have either robots or Belters to do all the actual work) and replaced it with a.... desperately anesthetized surplus class? The UN's main mission is providing just enough bread and circuses that nothing explodes while restricting reproduction and trying to tough it out another 80-100 years for the population to decline enough that they can get some breathing room. Prison abolitionists like Ruth Wilson Gilmore explain the growth in mass incarceration in the past decades partly as a way to sequester and pacify the surplus population in the US. Deindustrialization and offshoring made the urban workforce too large in big parts of the US. So maybe basic isn't all that bad in comparison.
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Dec 31, 2020 06:05
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Cojawfee posted:Peaches getting a maintenance job just seems really hard to believe. I guess she would just have enough money to pay people off, but you'd think there would be more scrutiny in who has that job when there are billions of people trying to get work on Earth. All these people want a job and she just makes a fake identity and gets a job on the exact ship she needs to be on. She's the daughter of a billionaire, those freaks can do whatever they want. Not mad at you, but for gently caress's sake, a crippling pandemic wasn't enough for the rich to take a break from partying and globetrotting, COVID to them is literally a "poor people's virus." https://nypost.com/2020/08/15/super-rich-party-it-up-during-covid-19-the-poor-persons-virus/
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Dec 31, 2020 06:09
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Especially considering there are drugs that are extremely effective at treating covid, they're just absurdly expensive Job wise in the expanse most of that lottery stuff is for government jobs and the free education. The corporations can do whatever they want, so it's probably a lot less of an issue conning your way into some subcontractor maintenance crew
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Dec 31, 2020 06:54
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Cojawfee posted:Peaches getting a maintenance job just seems really hard to believe. I guess she would just have enough money to pay people off, but you'd think there would be more scrutiny in who has that job when there are billions of people trying to get work on Earth. All these people want a job and she just makes a fake identity and gets a job on the exact ship she needs to be on. I'm sure there is, but the people who want jobs have very little ability to scrutinize things. And the people who are out there in space are just there to work, and her paperwork says Melba so whatever. Azhais posted:Job wise in the expanse most of that lottery stuff is for government jobs and the free education. The corporations can do whatever they want, so it's probably a lot less of an issue conning your way into some subcontractor maintenance crew Yeah if you can afford to pay for your own education, all that stuff about having to "prove" you can hold down a job goes out the window, since a lot of the hoops are education-related (like that street doc from Season 2 was waiting on) Defiance Industries fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Dec 31, 2020 |
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Dec 31, 2020 07:01
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Would Inaros' Belter society in the ring systems require new stations that cost trillions of dollars to build, or would they just make do with a bunch of ships orbiting planets?
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Dec 31, 2020 07:14
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I shouted YEAH at 1 AM due to the snap German suplex down the elevator shaft. What a brutal death.
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Dec 31, 2020 07:39
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I thought all my emotions were dead, but I did pop pretty hard for that suplex.
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Dec 31, 2020 07:40
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Minus1Minus1 posted:I thought all my emotions were dead, but I did pop pretty hard for that suplex.
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Dec 31, 2020 07:44
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GuardianOfAsgaard posted:Just thinking aloud, but out of 1300 habitable systems and there's really no nice little planets or moons with 0.3g or less gravity that belters would be comfortable on? The protomolecue was thrown at very specific systems, which is why the majority of them have earth standard, habitable planets. This means that of the 1300 pretty much all of them have an earth or two, but anything beyond that is incidental. There is probably a few subpar moons that might support life or the like, but any of the target planets are a no go for belters.
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Dec 31, 2020 07:58
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Earth doesnt have a working class... Edit: whoops, thought the page had refreshed. Instead,: Minus1Minus1 posted:I thought all my emotions were dead, but I did pop pretty hard for that suplex. BrotherJayne fucked around with this message at 08:05 on Dec 31, 2020 |
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Dec 31, 2020 08:00
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unemployed people are still a part of the working class you libs
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Dec 31, 2020 08:03
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there's the owning class and then there's the wlrking class and i doubt you see many vast acres of productive land in the possession of basic income holders this does mean holden is a rich boy
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Dec 31, 2020 08:04
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T-man posted:there's the owning class and then there's the wlrking class and i doubt you see many vast acres of productive land in the possession of basic income holders He's Kulak as gently caress
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Dec 31, 2020 08:06
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T-man posted:there's the owning class and then there's the wlrking class and i doubt you see many vast acres of productive land in the possession of basic income holders His parents are, he's a tax project.
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Dec 31, 2020 08:15
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The Rocci seems to be run as a co-op with everyone joint owners. Holden is only "in charge" as the rest of the workers on the ship support this role within their workplace. This is some syndicalist co-op or something.
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Dec 31, 2020 08:59
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Well, in the books, the ship is owned... Jk xD
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Dec 31, 2020 09:09
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Crazycryodude posted:Earth's brand of horrifying capitalism has essentially eliminated the working class (they have either robots or Belters to do all the actual work) and replaced it with a.... desperately anesthetized surplus class? The UN's main mission is providing just enough bread and circuses that nothing explodes while restricting reproduction and trying to tough it out another 80-100 years for the population to decline enough that they can get some breathing room. In the books there's really nothing to indicate that being on Basic is a hardship. Martians are shown to look at Earthers as coddled and lazy, living the easy life on Basic, while Martians find purpose and meaning through the struggle and hardship of terraforming. Martians denigrate Earthers for their lifestyle but never for being poor while they take pride in their own. So in the show they decided to show Earth as an impoverished dystopia. I think that was a questionable creative decision. I think the showrunners basically couldn't help themselves. Like that vision of the future runs deep in popular culture - Mad Max, Blade Runner, Minority Report, Elysium etc. The imagery is kinda cool and interesting so they jumped on the trope because it was easy. The problem is now Marco is dropping rocks on impoverished helpless people who are barely surviving instead of decadent bourgeois that let the Belt be exploited and oppressed to sustain their comfortable lives. It's a very different thing.
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Dec 31, 2020 09:35
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Have we seen anyone on Basic yet?
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Dec 31, 2020 09:54
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A good poster posted:Would Inaros' Belter society in the ring systems require new stations that cost trillions of dollars to build, or would they just make do with a bunch of ships orbiting planets? I would guess it involves more rotating habitats like Medina station. Belters built one, and that was ready to be on its own for an interstellar trip. Presumably you could reproduce that at lower cost once you had the experience of making the first, and wouldn't have to worry as much about low tolerances for losing atmosphere or other resources because you can resupply from any of the hundreds of planets made available through the ring gates
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Dec 31, 2020 09:55
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Cojawfee posted:Have we seen anyone on Basic yet? It's a longstanding argument as to whether or not the people Bobbie encountered were on basic or undocumented. I'm going to assume they're undocumented due to the simple fact that if 90% of the people on the planet were scrounging for food and medical supplies like that 24/7/365 then 90% of the planet would be dead within a couple winters.
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Dec 31, 2020 09:56
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Baronjutter posted:The Rocci seems to be run as a co-op with everyone joint owners. Holden is only "in charge" as the rest of the workers on the ship support this role within their workplace. This is some syndicalist co-op or something. based
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Dec 31, 2020 10:16
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i really do hate how they decided to use the "anarchist A" symbol (albeit slightly modified) for the OPA when they pretty much dont seem anarchist in the slightest and would at best be described as a sci-fi equivalent of maoists/3rd-worldists but whatever its fine i get that whenever you want to make a fictional character/faction look evil you associate them with anarchism because nobody watching will know what the gently caress anarchism even is and just associate it with terrorism
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Dec 31, 2020 10:22
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Baronjutter posted:I don't understand marco's plan beside doing a revenge genocide on earth's working class for daring to be under the same boot as belters. He says belters can't settle on any of the ring worlds due to the gravity there, and the ones who did would cease to be belters. But he wants earth and mars restricted to their atmosphere and denied access to space because space should belong to belters. He just doesn't want anyone settling new planets, even belters. He just wants to spread low gravity space-based belter society through the ring gates and leave the planets unsettled? The belt has a very similar problem as Mars. It lost its purpose and there is no real place for it in the post-ring economy anymore. It's a dying civilization. Everyone capable will settle on the new worlds and the rest will slowly wither away as jobs and investment in infrastructure continue to disappear, their quality of life decreases and their population shrinks to almost nothing. Marco tries to spin this process as a genocide and his actions as a fight against that genocide. A real world analogy would maybe be something like the effects of urbanization on rural areas and the social strife that it creates. Most rural areas in the developed world are suffering from massive depopulation, decay of infrastructure and quality of life and the MAGA movements are partly an attempt to counter that development. They want to preserve dying rural industries like coal mining or fishing and stop socially progressive ideas and culture trends that make young people move to the cities. Marco is basically doing "Make the Belt great again"
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Dec 31, 2020 10:27
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Cojawfee posted:Have we seen anyone on Basic yet? Yes. The people under the bridge Bobbie ran into, or the dude Amos just confronted in the apartment with all the boxes.
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Dec 31, 2020 10:34
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GABA ghoul posted:The belt has a very similar problem as Mars. It lost its purpose and there is no real place for it in the post-ring economy anymore. It's a dying civilization. Everyone capable will settle on the new worlds and the rest will slowly wither away as jobs and investment in infrastructure continue to disappear, their quality of life decreases and their population shrinks to almost nothing. Marco tries to spin this process as a genocide and his actions as a fight against that genocide. Except with 1300 settled worlds there would be a huge need for shipping which Belters are better suited for. And for building and maintaining ships which we know they do in space ports. It's also not obvious why mining operations in the Belt would be less valuable. Yes, there's also stuff to mine on planets but why would that outcompete the Belt?
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Dec 31, 2020 10:53
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Owling Howl posted:Except with 1300 settled worlds there would be a huge need for shipping which Belters are better suited for. And for building and maintaining ships which we know they do in space ports. It's also not obvious why mining operations in the Belt would be less valuable. Yes, there's also stuff to mine on planets but why would that outcompete the Belt? grav dwelling crews can sustain higher acceleration, so the shipping tasks for anything except the bulk commodities might be best handled by them. as well as the warfighting
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Dec 31, 2020 11:02
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Owling Howl posted:In the books there's really nothing to indicate that being on Basic is a hardship. Martians are shown to look at Earthers as coddled and lazy, living the easy life on Basic, while Martians find purpose and meaning through the struggle and hardship of terraforming. Martians denigrate Earthers for their lifestyle but never for being poor while they take pride in their own. Except the books do go into why basic sucks and why people choose to go undocumented; you don't get an allowance of money to spend, you get standard issue basics given to you, like a lovely phone, lovely clothes, food stamps only redeemable for lovely food, assigned housing that will put you thousands of kilometres away from anyone you know, and anything remotely nice is only available for real money which you have to beg borrow or steal. At that point some say gently caress it all I'll live in a tent city under a bridge but it's the bridge I choose The way this is shown to you was created by the showrunners but it was all there in the source material Oscar aint no Slouch fucked around with this message at 11:44 on Dec 31, 2020 |
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Dec 31, 2020 11:41
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Wait, if Tiny's mods let him shrug off face punching and gun shots, why did getting kicked in the nuts work?
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Dec 31, 2020 12:13
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