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Snowman_McK posted:Looper's depiction of time travel is actually consistent with itself. The characters don't fully understand it (closing your loop feels more like superstition than anything else) but the rules, as shown, are easy to grasp and work the same way each time. Looper is grandfather paradox causality until the end where its not. It presents one form of time travel for half of it, then swaps to Back to the Future version at the end. Maybe the Tenet group saw Looper and were scared they were in that movie so thats why they were going through the motions even if the evidence looked like single timeline grandfather paradox.
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Jan 3, 2021 13:14
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Amarcarts posted:I get that but it's a hard sell to count that as faith. Putting in effort when the outcome is uncertain definitely counts as faith. The movie shoots itself in the foot with the premise of the interaction between the forward and reverse. They say you can't change the past (What's happened happened) but then they show someone making a bullet levitate off the table into their hand by feeling that they've dropped it. That's agency. You can't really have it both ways. Darko posted:Looper is grandfather paradox causality until the end where its not. It presents one form of time travel for half of it, then swaps to Back to the Future version at the end.
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Jan 3, 2021 13:33
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Amarcarts posted:I get that but it's a hard sell to count that as faith. Putting in effort when the outcome is uncertain definitely counts as faith. The movie shoots itself in the foot with the premise of the interaction between the forward and reverse. They say you can't change the past (What's happened happened) but then they show someone making a bullet levitate off the table into their hand by feeling that they've dropped it. That's agency. You can't really have it both ways. I'm pretty sure Neil is from the future and has inverterted to the past.
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Jan 3, 2021 15:21
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RBX posted:I'm pretty sure Neil is from the future and has inverterted to the past. I think that it about Protag's injuries before they arrive in Oslo - almost like he is getting hurt by the attack before he experiences it inverted. The closer he gets to the event, he should be expediting the effect. Shouldn't Neil also have brain bits falling out of him while walking around at the same time his dead body is in the hypocenter? The answer is, who knows.
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Jan 3, 2021 16:06
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He was inverted when that happened. That means the gun wasn't inverted when Neil got shot. Who had the gun first during the hall fight? Protag shoots inverted Protag with inverted gun -> Inverted protag feels pain before doing it again. Inverted Neil gets shot with a regular gun. RBX fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Jan 3, 2021 |
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Jan 3, 2021 16:13
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just thinking about that part of the film where michael caine (as michael caine? what) drops that sick burn on brooks brothers or the scene on the catamaran lol forever at this movie, jesus christ. i hope no one caught covid for this.
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Jan 3, 2021 20:38
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zer0spunk posted:just thinking about that part of the film where michael caine (as michael caine? what) drops that sick burn on brooks brothers It was ridiculous. I mean that means that the continuity person had to ensure that for the beginning takes he had to eat another mouthful of eggs or whatever.
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Jan 3, 2021 20:43
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JazzFlight posted:Why did Nolan have Michael Caine film half of his scene while he was chewing on food? anytime this happens in a movie i want you to think about how many takes they do. and how sick of eating you get as an actor. makes it that much more wtf e: watching it on a 5.1 system was annoying as poo poo too, i shouldn't have to be mixing the film with the remote anytime the effects work is 185% louder then anything else in the scene. i knew going in it was bad from everyone who saw it in a theater but  since this is a tenet thread, here are the positives for me...the car chase sequence i actually liked..the first time. i was also impressed at how the plot is incredibly straightforward in its sequence of events. we need to go here to do this because ___. and yet somehow it was also convoluted and incredibly up its own rear end at the same time. that takes some real skill as a screenwriter, good stuff. e2: and honestly deep deep down i find the fact this is all a climate change psa absolutely hilarious. that's some m night level story-crafting right there zer0spunk fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Jan 3, 2021 |
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Jan 3, 2021 20:45
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zer0spunk posted:anytime this happens in a movie i want you to think about how many takes they do. and how sick of eating you get as an actor. For the Ocean's movies, Brad Pitt wanted his character eating at all times, which is both a testament to how crazy Pitt is and how quickly Soderbergh makes his movies. quote:i was also impressed at how the plot is incredibly straightforward in its sequence of events. we need to go here to do this because ___. and yet somehow it was also convoluted and incredibly up its own rear end at the same time. that takes some real skill as a screenwriter, good stuff. This was what struck me too. It never really matters what the Algorithm is or what the component was, they are as pure macguffins as I've ever seen in a movie.
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Jan 3, 2021 21:20
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zer0spunk posted:e2: and honestly deep deep down i find the fact this is all a climate change psa absolutely hilarious. that's some m night level story-crafting right there That was my favorite part of the movie. It was about the best motivation you could give for the future to be doing what it's doing. The problem is there are only a couple of lines devoted to it. Though I would've found it more interesting if the future was just doing it as punishment rather than as an attempt to save themselves. Brings to mind one of the better SCPs.
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Jan 3, 2021 21:23
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pospysyl posted:For the Ocean's movies, Brad Pitt wanted his character eating at all times, which is both a testament to how crazy Pitt is and how quickly Soderbergh makes his movies. the end in the gravel pit basically sums up this whole movie for me.. if i told you the conceit to that scene as a pitch you'd go "oh, that sounds pretty clever and kinda cool, i'm down"..the proper response to "one attacking team goes in forwards and one goes in reverse and both elements collide in a kick-rear end action sequence that will be the climax of my film" but then you get the fuckin' gravel pit in reality
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Jan 3, 2021 21:27
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zer0spunk posted:the end in the gravel pit basically sums up this whole movie for me.. I was hoping for that Watchman mirrored issue idea but as a movie.
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Jan 3, 2021 21:30
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JazzFlight posted:I really feel that the end action scene fight needed to be the opera house but recontextualized so that we saw things from the opposite perspective and in a much more meaningful way. This way we'd actually have a movie that fits that whole mirrored "palindrome structure" it seemed Nolan was going for for most of the plot. that would have made sense. i also figured they'd loop back to the beginning with more context, as a bookend kinda thing but uh, nah. "just watch again n00bs" - christopher nolan, prolly ugh, reminded me of the last exposition dump in the car where he kills whatshernamewhocares, shoulda just had him put sunglasses on, look into the camera and go LETS GO! and the MIB theme plays or something i don't know i'm not a nolan e: like how are we not openly mocking the fact that he names john washingtons character(who did his best in this btw, bless him, same for pattinson) "the protagonist"..if thats not the most smell my own farts thing..and then had him openly call himself that, not just a clever little in-joke in the screenplay (available on amazon now) and credits at least i'm not alone in my contempt. if this thread was all glowing i'd feel nuts zer0spunk fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Jan 3, 2021 |
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Jan 3, 2021 21:39
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The goon who said "things stop existing outside the scene they're in" seems to be bang on the money. Never mind cars being built with broken mirrors or bullets always being in walls otherwise; if someone's killed while they're inverted, how the hell does that work beyond the scene? From the point of view of someone in normal time before the moment of the death, there's a body that defies the laws of causality gradually un-decomposing, every molecule of it as toxic as plutonium and slowly un-working their way through the surrounding ecosystem. How do you get rid of it if you don't have a turnstile? Un-burn it?
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Jan 3, 2021 21:44
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lol that the trope-y Russian villain was Kenneth Branagh the more i think about this movie the more i'm convinced this is a low key parody of James bond and his own dumb "high" sci fi concept films in one go i can't be the only who laughed at "IF I CAN'T HAVE YOU NO ONE CAN" right
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Jan 3, 2021 22:03
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zer0spunk posted:lol that the trope-y Russian villain was Kenneth Branagh Dante posted:I applaud Nolan's bravery for making the Russian bond villain's motivation be IF I CAN'T HAVE YOU NOBODY CAN for both the bond girl and also for destroying the planet with an appropriately nuclear-themed doomsday device. I won't have you cancel me like that 
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Jan 3, 2021 23:24
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Dante posted:I won't have you cancel me like that hahahahah touche
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Jan 4, 2021 00:23
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so do we have a weird half-speed hallway fight now that drags on for far too long or
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Jan 4, 2021 00:23
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Darko posted:Looper is grandfather paradox causality until the end where its not. It presents one form of time travel for half of it, then swaps to Back to the Future version at the end. No, it's the same in both cases. You can go back kill your younger self (or cause them to die) and you will cease existing from that moment. That scene where they're mutilating Paul Dano's character is, as well as an extremely memorable scene, a demonstration of the mechanics, which are consistent with how the plot is resolved.
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Jan 4, 2021 05:11
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zer0spunk posted:i was also impressed at how the plot is incredibly straightforward in its sequence of events. we need to go here to do this because ___. and yet somehow it was also convoluted and incredibly up its own rear end at the same time. that takes some real skill as a screenwriter, good stuff. seems like nolan's thing is taking simple plots, then adding a surface layer of complexity that doesn't really change how the film progresses but works only to annoy the audience
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Jan 4, 2021 08:43
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The complexity exists just to make the action set pieces cooler. Which is fine because the action is baller. But then internet dorks show up and want to pretend there’s something deeper even though Chris Nolan is, at heart, kind of a dumb guy. And I love his movies
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Jan 4, 2021 15:29
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In terms of melding Nolan's ridiculously convoluted exposition with an actually compelling story I feel like The Prestige and Interstellar are really his best. The Prestige is probably #1 just because the crazy twists and turns are also a core part of who the characters are and who they're striving to be.
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Jan 4, 2021 15:34
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SlipkPIe posted:The complexity exists just to make the action set pieces cooler. Which is fine because the action is baller. But then internet dorks show up and want to pretend there’s something deeper even though Chris Nolan is, at heart, kind of a dumb guy. And I love his movies That reddit post where someone made a diagram to explain this movie like it's Primer was pretty funny.
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Jan 4, 2021 21:29
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zer0spunk posted:the end in the gravel pit basically sums up this whole movie for me.. I’ll never stop lolling at that Star Trek 60s rear end quarry
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Jan 4, 2021 23:21
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well why not posted:I’ll never stop lolling at that Star Trek 60s rear end quarry I kept expecting the TARDIS to appear and Sylvester McCoy to pop out.
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Jan 5, 2021 00:47
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Groovelord Neato posted:That reddit post where someone made a diagram to explain this movie like it's Primer was pretty funny. I had no idea what was going on in Primer either and it made more sense than this movie. At least those guys weren’t putting guns and bullets in their little time travel boxes and sending them back so that they could shoot backwards for no reason. I think this movie wouldn’t have been such a massive let down if it weren’t for COVID. I was genuinely looking forward to seeing it, then there was absolutely no way I would step into a crowded movie theater. I expected Nolan to just release it digitally like every other sane person but then he made his big song and dance “You must see it on the big screen to appreciate my genius!” Ok whatever dude, I’ll wait you out. And then it finally releases to DVD and the big screen doesn’t make a lick of difference. Thanks Nolan you pretentious rear end in a top hat. What a dumbass. I could have watched this on a Gameboy Advance on an airplane and drawn the exact same conclusion.
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Jan 5, 2021 01:49
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SlipkPIe posted:The complexity exists just to make the action set pieces cooler. Which is fine because the action is baller. But then internet dorks show up and want to pretend there’s something deeper even though Chris Nolan is, at heart, kind of a dumb guy. And I love his movies While I can agree with that for most of his other movies, none of the set pieces of TENET are cooler because of the complexity with arguably some very small exceptions like the Protagonist fighting himself.
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Jan 5, 2021 02:35
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SlipkPIe posted:the action is baller. A car chase in reverse? Tier one operators shooting guns at rubble? A fist fight where one guy moves backwards? That was all nonsense and despite being frenetic and loud it was kind of boring.
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Jan 5, 2021 02:51
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space uncle posted:What a dumbass. I could have watched this on a Gameboy Advance on an airplane and drawn the exact same conclusion. I dunno if Apple has just been improving their audio over the years or what, it just made me reconsider what a handheld device could do.
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Jan 5, 2021 02:53
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Sounds like you guys weren’t high enough when you saw this movie
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Jan 5, 2021 03:12
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Capntastic posted:A car chase in reverse? Tier one operators shooting guns at rubble? A fist fight where one guy moves backwards? That was all nonsense and despite being frenetic and loud it was kind of boring. The car chase is nonsensical, the operators look like extras in a CoD commercial, the fist fight just reminded me of a better movie in Inception. Even the big fancy plane crash was underwhelming. There's great stuff in here but this movie needed to be put through eighteen months of rewrites. A cast like this was wasted on crap Nolan plot gimmicks. I really do hope he does something more streamlined and linear at some point. If I had the power to change this movie, I'd ditch the gimmick altogether and make it a straight up spy movie. No tricks, just a Mission Impossible / Bond thing. Would also change the conclusion to, literally, anywhere apart from the hill where James T Kirk almost got his poo poo caved in by a Gorn.
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Jan 5, 2021 03:29
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I actually thought the initial reverse fight was extremely cool, at least as a taster for later reverse brawls/gun battles.
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Jan 5, 2021 04:55
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The car chase's best part was planning and executing the car lock-in which would've played exactly the same without the gimmick
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Jan 5, 2021 07:55
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Now that the DVD is out there are clips online that reverse the footage for some of the scenes and the car chase is actually pretty impressive. As much as I keep wanting to pick this movie apart for its numerous flaws, I will say that I haven't spent as much time thinking about any other movie in recent memory. Just about everything else that comes out these days is instantly forgettable. Even the relatively good stuff just kind of fades away after a week.
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Jan 5, 2021 12:22
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Amarcarts posted:Now that the DVD is out there are clips online that reverse the footage for some of the scenes and the car chase is actually pretty impressive. I will admit that the movies I've spent the most time thinking about recently is TENET and CATS.
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Jan 5, 2021 12:32
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I tried to watch the car chase again yesterday and with every passing moment I spend watching the movie again I understand it less. Inverted sator counts down (forward in time) but in reality he’s doing things backwards? So he gives the case to the protagonist instead of receiving it? And he’s driving backwards inversely so that in forward time the car chase is driving in reverse?
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Jan 5, 2021 14:43
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The Kingfish posted:I actually thought the initial reverse fight was extremely cool, at least as a taster for later reverse brawls/gun battles. That's a scene where I thought the incomprehensibility worked to the movie's advantage. JDW doesn't really understand why he's fighting the reversed guy, so on the second time through it's a neat reveal.
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Jan 5, 2021 17:04
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pospysyl posted:That's a scene where I thought the incomprehensibility worked to the movie's advantage. JDW doesn't really understand why he's fighting the reversed guy, so on the second time through it's a neat reveal. I can’t decide if it’s clever or dumb that neither knows why they’re fighting. From both of their perspectives, the other guy started the fight. They fight because they fight.
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Jan 5, 2021 17:25
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On the second time through JDW knows what he's doing; he just needs to get to the turnstile, but his past self is incidentally blocking his way. He may also remember fighting himself the first time through, but it's equally plausible that he forgot or didn't think it through and is surprised to see his past self there.
pospysyl fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Jan 5, 2021 |
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Jan 5, 2021 20:56
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pospysyl posted:On the second time through JDW knows what he's doing; he just needs to get to the turnstile, but his past self is incidentally blocking his way. He may also remember fighting himself the first time through, but it's equally plausible that he forgot or didn't think it through and is surprised to see his past self there.
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Jan 5, 2021 21:05
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