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Leraika
Jun 14, 2015

Luckily, I *did* save your old avatar. Fucked around and found out indeed.
I can forgive the dub any number of sins so long as it's an episode with an Etemon in it.

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Larryb
Oct 5, 2010

Some more titles/summaries for the next few Adventure: episodes:

https://withthewill.net/threads/adventure-guide-listings-for-episodes-31-through-35.25086/

drrockso20
May 6, 2013

Has Not Actually Done Cocaine

jivjov posted:

Maybe I'll get lucky and that same truck will break down right outside my PMs my mailbox...

Away from my computer rignt now but you'll be getting a special delivery soon...

Funky Valentine posted:

Various digimon inexplicably being celebrity impersonators is a deeply important part of the Digimon Experience.

I don't know why IceDevimon sounds like Christopher Walken but I see no reason why he shouldn't.

IceDevimon pretty much always being a big deal when he shows up is one of the reasons he's one of my favorite recolors

Scratchman Apoo
Mar 27, 2011

Omnicrom posted:

As you noted, the dub does do some cutting and changing, both in dialogue and in visual edits. It's nothing HUGE, but it is there and it did happen. There's a couple of paradoxically big small things that show up as the show continues, so keep an eye out for them. For instance they cut out a weird recurring thing from the second arc and I don't particularly mind because that bit went nowhere, but on the other hand they changed of a couple of details here and there that ends up making the show make a little less sense while in Tokyo. Not too many though, thankfully. If you watched the dub I'd say you've definitely seen something representative of the show unlike a couple of the notably bad dubs of the era (coughCardcaptorscough).

Honestly the parts of Adventure 99's dub that make it not as good (because it really isn't bad) are in the accumulation of little things here and there. The non-stop talking and jokes, a character talks who doesn't, dialogue is altered to remove reference to a thing or things, a plot point is glossed over...

And Boris Karloff Phantomon was an inspired adaptation choice and I miss him when I watch the original.

I may be missing things from back in the day. What was the edit made in the 2nd arc?

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


Scratchman Apoo posted:

I may be missing things from back in the day. What was the edit made in the 2nd arc?

In the wake of Skull Greymon, in the Japanese version, there's a bit where the cast is told by Gennai that to avoid an evolution like that happening again, they must "raise their digimon properly", but gets cut off before he can elaborate on that point. This is probably a reference back to the original source material (remember, Digimon was originally a V-pet), but it's not really touched on again after the arc, especially after they elaborate on what the crests are supposed to mean and how they function within in the series.

And this wasn't a one-time thing, it's brought up several times throughout that stretch of episodes with all the characters acknowledging they aren't really sure what it means but they'll have to figure it out. They don't figure it out. And it's also a very strange turn of phrase for Gennai to use when the actual answer was "embody the virtue of your crest activate it).

I admit I could've completely glossed over when I first watched the show, but my recollection was that the dub had Gennai saying instead that Taichi wasn't using his crest right before he is cut off, which both makes more sense and wasn't in the original.

womb with a view
Sep 8, 2007

The Skullgreymon arc also referenced another part of the v-pets: to get some of the alternate evolutions, you needed to overfeed your Digimon a number of times.

The Dark Masters (and MetalEtemon) were all the virus type final evolutions on the original 5 Pendulum pets... Except Metalseadramon. He was the data type evolution. Probably because the virus one on Deep Savers was...



(90s virtual pets are my embarrassing nerd hobby)

readingatwork
Jan 8, 2009

Hello Fatty!


Fun Shoe
LMAO I forgot about the poop throwing Digimon.

Toei give your next protagonist kid a poop digimon and make him figure out how to save the world with it. Do it you cowards!

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

womb with a view posted:

The Skullgreymon arc also referenced another part of the v-pets: to get some of the alternate evolutions, you needed to overfeed your Digimon a number of times.

The Dark Masters (and MetalEtemon) were all the virus type final evolutions on the original 5 Pendulum pets... Except Metalseadramon. He was the data type evolution. Probably because the virus one on Deep Savers was...



(90s virtual pets are my embarrassing nerd hobby)
I love Pukumon's design, but it absolutely looks like it should be MarineNanimon or MarineMamemon.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


Funky Valentine posted:

I don't know why IceDevimon sounds like Christopher Walken but I see no reason why he shouldn't.

Plausible reason: because that Ice Devimon was voiced by Norio goddamn Wakamoto in Frontier, and they had to bring in a a performance that was of a similar magnitude for the dub.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013





Funky Valentine posted:

Various digimon inexplicably being celebrity impersonators is a deeply important part of the Digimon Experience.

I don't know why IceDevimon sounds like Christopher Walken but I see no reason why he shouldn't.

I think my favourites were MetalSeadramon being Jack Nicholson, Piedmon being Tim Curry, and Mary Elizabeth McGlynn basing Pajiramon on Kate Mulgrew because she had a guest star role on Star Trek: Voyager like a year earlier.

venom3053000
Dec 29, 2013

readingatwork posted:

LMAO I forgot about the poop throwing Digimon.

Toei give your next protagonist kid a poop digimon and make him figure out how to save the world with it. Do it you cowards!

A kid and their Tyumon

Would it be better or worse for it to end up a Etemon? :cheeky:

ConanThe3rd
Mar 27, 2009
I want a hero Etemon.

Killingyouguy!
Sep 8, 2014

I tried watching the Adventure remake and all it made me feel was 'man the original was really good' so now i'm on a digimon nostalgia bender

I tried re/watching them all a few years ago but I dropped off a few episodes into Frontier, I just couldn't get into it. Is anything after that one worth watching? It's where I dropped off as a kid too

womb with a view posted:

(90s virtual pets are my embarrassing nerd hobby)

hi friend, same

Rudoku
Jun 15, 2003

Damn I need a drink...


ConanThe3rd posted:

I want a hero Etemon.

And a glorious Mega-evolution. I don't care which one 'cuz they're both good. And in other things, Garudamon is the strongest ultimate/perfect so far. Just casually one-shotting poo poo like it's nothing.

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010

Killingyouguy! posted:

I tried watching the Adventure remake and all it made me feel was 'man the original was really good' so now i'm on a digimon nostalgia bender

I tried re/watching them all a few years ago but I dropped off a few episodes into Frontier, I just couldn't get into it. Is anything after that one worth watching? It's where I dropped off as a kid too


hi friend, same

Appmon (or Digimon Universe: Applimonsters to use the full title) which is currently up on Crunchyroll (it’s kind of a slow burn to start but it’s worth it), Savers/Data Squad was also good but I’m not sure if it’s (legally) still available anywhere.

Larryb fucked around with this message at 04:31 on Jan 10, 2021

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


Killingyouguy! posted:

I tried watching the Adventure remake and all it made me feel was 'man the original was really good' so now i'm on a digimon nostalgia bender

I tried re/watching them all a few years ago but I dropped off a few episodes into Frontier, I just couldn't get into it. Is anything after that one worth watching? It's where I dropped off as a kid too

Digimon follows inverse Star Trek movie rules where in the good seasons are the odd-numbered ones. As such both Digimon Savers and Digimon Universe Appli Monsters/Appmon are good shows in their own right. The latter is available on Crunchyroll, the former is… not so much. Still, should you happen to find Digimon Savers somewhere it's worth a watch.

Skip right over Xros Wars/Death Generals/Young Hunters/Season six, unless for some reason you find it necessary to watch possibly the worst anniversary celebration ever.

Some Numbers
Sep 28, 2006

"LET'S GET DOWN TO WORK!!"

Killingyouguy! posted:

I tried watching the Adventure remake and all it made me feel was 'man the original was really good' so now i'm on a digimon nostalgia bender

I tried re/watching them all a few years ago but I dropped off a few episodes into Frontier, I just couldn't get into it.

I really wish Frontier was better than it ended up being, because it could have been good.

They just dropped the ball off a goddamn cliff.

ConanThe3rd
Mar 27, 2009
Eh, we got Zatch Bell and Astroboy out of it so it’s not all toilets.

Seiyal
Jul 9, 2015

In my mind I just pretend. My brain is my only true friend.

Omnicrom posted:

Skip right over Xros Wars/Death Generals/Young Hunters/Season six, unless for some reason you find it necessary to watch possibly the worst anniversary celebration ever.

Throwing Xros Wars under the bus for Episodes 55-79 seems short-sighted, because it's very easy to watch the first 54 episodes and call it complete. There's a lot of development of both the humans and Digimon that's fairly refreshing to see and while Hunters is still "part" of the series, you don't have to watch it. There's some callbacks to stuff in the previous 54 episodes if you choose to watch the last 25 but I can't think of anything major that's "you can't miss this" if you don't watch it. Also, Xros Wars has some absolutely wonderful insert songs, some really neat takes on evolution and combinations that (barring Appmon) Digimon's never really looked at much.

So I think you can easily watch Xros Wars + Death Generals and have a good series right there, as long as you don't mind Digimon looking a little different. It's not a "typical" Digimon series (by which I mean a small group of kids with 1 partner like most of the 5 series before it) but honestly, I think the non-typical series like Xros Wars and Appmon are just as fun as the other series before them.

Killingyouguy!
Sep 8, 2014

at least Frontier is where the eng dub stopped using that godawful theme song

Funky Valentine
Feb 26, 2014

Dojyaa~an

Killingyouguy! posted:

at least Frontier is where the eng dub stopped using that godawful theme song

The Frontier dub song is a banger, they even use a version of it in the Armageddemon movie.

drrockso20
May 6, 2013

Has Not Actually Done Cocaine

Rudoku posted:

And a glorious Mega-evolution. I don't care which one 'cuz they're both good. And in other things, Garudamon is the strongest ultimate/perfect so far. Just casually one-shotting poo poo like it's nothing.

Definitely would have to be KingEtemon

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


Seiyal posted:

Throwing Xros Wars under the bus for Episodes 55-79 seems short-sighted, because it's very easy to watch the first 54 episodes and call it complete. There's a lot of development of both the humans and Digimon that's fairly refreshing to see and while Hunters is still "part" of the series, you don't have to watch it. There's some callbacks to stuff in the previous 54 episodes if you choose to watch the last 25 but I can't think of anything major that's "you can't miss this" if you don't watch it. Also, Xros Wars has some absolutely wonderful insert songs, some really neat takes on evolution and combinations that (barring Appmon) Digimon's never really looked at much.

So I think you can easily watch Xros Wars + Death Generals and have a good series right there, as long as you don't mind Digimon looking a little different. It's not a "typical" Digimon series (by which I mean a small group of kids with 1 partner like most of the 5 series before it) but honestly, I think the non-typical series like Xros Wars and Appmon are just as fun as the other series before them.

Sorry, going to have to have a hard disagree on this. Young Hunters was tragically bad when taken as an anniversary series (I suspect in large part because it wasn't supposed to be), but I see it as Xros Wars going on as it meant to start because I think the first two arcs of Xros Wars were real bad.

I have always called into question the idea that the series was more focused on the digimon characters and that they got most of the character development, because they kind of didn't. I struggle to think of how the series actually characterized them any more than the human characters, and that's not exactly great because Kudou Taiki was so incredibly boring he was my pick for worst Digimon character prior to the existence of Meiko. As for the rest of the cast? At best they're one note. As for the fight scenes they did admittedly bat above average for this franchise, but it wasn't for digixrossing because they really didn't do much with it. Most of the time when they did do a Digixros it was a one-time thing that didn't really mean anything in the longer run or were basically jokes. And despite having a whole army there was always explicitly the one digimon (Shoutmon in 99% of cases) who actually mattered in any given fight and even then they constantly jobbed out and lost a lot of fights and didn't ever look particularly strong. And don't get me started on the pacing decisions that series made because they aren't good, or how it told its own story because overall because it also wasn't that good. As for the music? Yeah, it was pretty good overall.

I called out Young Hunters in particular, but those previous 54 episodes really weren't much better in my opinion. Heck, I actually enjoyed Young Hunters more on average than I did the first two arcs. I would genuinely have loved for Xros Wars to have been good and appeal to me, but to the latter it didn't and the former I don't think it is. Appmon was a much better atypical Digimon series and I love it wholeheartedly. Xros Wars I don't.

ConanThe3rd
Mar 27, 2009

drrockso20 posted:

Definitely would have to be KingEtemon
The true king of braves. :smug:

readingatwork
Jan 8, 2009

Hello Fatty!


Fun Shoe

Omnicrom posted:

Sorry, going to have to have a hard disagree on this. Young Hunters was tragically bad when taken as an anniversary series (I suspect in large part because it wasn't supposed to be), but I see it as Xros Wars going on as it meant to start because I think the first two arcs of Xros Wars were real bad.

I have always called into question the idea that the series was more focused on the digimon characters and that they got most of the character development, because they kind of didn't. I struggle to think of how the series actually characterized them any more than the human characters, and that's not exactly great because Kudou Taiki was so incredibly boring he was my pick for worst Digimon character prior to the existence of Meiko. As for the rest of the cast? At best they're one note. As for the fight scenes they did admittedly bat above average for this franchise, but it wasn't for digixrossing because they really didn't do much with it. Most of the time when they did do a Digixros it was a one-time thing that didn't really mean anything in the longer run or were basically jokes. And despite having a whole army there was always explicitly the one digimon (Shoutmon in 99% of cases) who actually mattered in any given fight and even then they constantly jobbed out and lost a lot of fights and didn't ever look particularly strong. And don't get me started on the pacing decisions that series made because they aren't good, or how it told its own story because overall because it also wasn't that good. As for the music? Yeah, it was pretty good overall.

I called out Young Hunters in particular, but those previous 54 episodes really weren't much better in my opinion. Heck, I actually enjoyed Young Hunters more on average than I did the first two arcs. I would genuinely have loved for Xros Wars to have been good and appeal to me, but to the latter it didn't and the former I don't think it is. Appmon was a much better atypical Digimon series and I love it wholeheartedly. Xros Wars I don't.

So Xros wars basically breaks down like this:

XWS1: Pure cringe but sometimes hilariously bad in a fun way

XWS2: Actually makes up for a lot of the mistakes of S1 by having much more interesting villains and is actually watchable but still does lots of stupid obnoxious poo poo. I actually like this season.

Hunters: Went from a show for middle schoolers to a show for preschoolers for some reason and every aspect of it took a huge dip in quality. The idea of digimon weaponizing partnerships with kids through mind control or deception for power is really interesting but the series goes nowhere with it and then shits the bed at the end by bringing all the series together in an incredibly haphazard way and then fizzling out. It's worst sin is that it's incredibly boring which makes it the worst Digimon season imo.

drrockso20
May 6, 2013

Has Not Actually Done Cocaine
And the Manga ends up being better than any of them*, even if it does get a bit rushed towards the end and has a character design in it that is very cringe inducing

*indeed I'd say it's the second best Digimon manga after V-Tamer

Hitlersaurus Christ
Oct 14, 2005

The manga was fun, but definitely felt like fan fiction.

Anyway I enjoyed today's episode well enough. We got some more exposition and while it's not all that new, we learn that there are multiple Milleniumon shards/crystals. I wonder if the next arc will be about searching for them before some bad guy reaches them.
Also I'm pretty sure SkullKnightmon is a corrupted Gatomon. The way he looked away when Hikari made eye contact was definitely meant to be a hint.


It's a bit hard to get used to giant War Greymon, but so far his fights are pretty badass.

womb with a view
Sep 8, 2007

Killingyouguy! posted:

hi friend, same

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010

I know Toei doesn’t see it that way but I’ve personally always counted Young Hunters as a separate series entirely (basically the 02 to Xros Wars’ Adventure). It does introduce a new premise and set of protagonists after all.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

Larryb posted:

I know Toei doesn’t see it that way but I’ve personally always counted Young Hunters as a separate series entirely (basically the 02 to Xros Wars’ Adventure). It does introduce a new premise and set of protagonists after all.

Also, Xros Wars 7 Generals ends conclusively. Like... one can't stop watching Xros Wars at the end of the first 'season' because it has an obvious lead into 7 Generals. But 7 Generals concluded with literally the biggest possible battle, with the largest possible Xros, and the achievement of the main characters dream. Done, dusted.

Hitlersaurus Christ
Oct 14, 2005

Pretty sure it only existed because Saint Seiya Omega was delayed and the episodic format was because they didn’t know until when. I recall Riku Sanjo that they originally were going to make it a new series but decided to just make it a continuation of Xros.

ConanThe3rd
Mar 27, 2009
Man, Saint Sayia Omega, there's a name I haven't heard in a solid minute.

And for good reason, wow what a waste of time for everyone that show was.

Some Numbers
Sep 28, 2006

"LET'S GET DOWN TO WORK!!"
So the next episode of Adventure: is titled Soaring Hope, which was Pegasusmon's moniker in 02. Are we going to an Armor Evolution before we get MangaAngemon?

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


Some Numbers posted:

So the next episode of Adventure: is titled Soaring Hope, which was Pegasusmon's moniker in 02. Are we going to an Armor Evolution before we get MangaAngemon?

It was confirmed a while back that the V-Pet for this season included Pegasmon, so probably. Said V-Pet also included Blitz Greymon, Cres Garurumon, and Omegamon Alter-S so look forward to that...

Some Numbers
Sep 28, 2006

"LET'S GET DOWN TO WORK!!"

Omnicrom posted:

It was confirmed a while back that the V-Pet for this season included Pegasmon, so probably. Said V-Pet also included Blitz Greymon, Cres Garurumon, and Omegamon Alter-S so look forward to that...

I just looked those up.

I'm not particularly happy about this.

drrockso20
May 6, 2013

Has Not Actually Done Cocaine

Hitlersaurus Christ posted:

Pretty sure it only existed because Saint Seiya Omega was delayed and the episodic format was because they didn’t know until when. I recall Riku Sanjo that they originally were going to make it a new series but decided to just make it a continuation of Xros.

I really don't get why they were so obsessed with that slot that they kept Xros Wars going when it was a merchandising failure in literally every respect* and wasn't even doing all that great in the ratings either, which makes it even more funny cause Saint Seiya Omega was an even bigger failure than Xros Wars was so it was an exercise in futility in literally every respect

*like after the first arc the only new stuff they made was the card stuff

Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND

drrockso20 posted:

I really don't get why they were so obsessed with that slot that they kept Xros Wars going when it was a merchandising failure in literally every respect* and wasn't even doing all that great in the ratings either, which makes it even more funny cause Saint Seiya Omega was an even bigger failure than Xros Wars was so it was an exercise in futility in literally every respect

*like after the first arc the only new stuff they made was the card stuff

I'm pretty sure this was not the case. Xros Wars was as long as it was because it managed to sell great. And clearly, it had some degree of lasting impact considering how they went as far as retcon levels to a bunch of Digimon in it so they could be used in Adventure:, with one of them even having a major role (Skull/DarkKnightmon).

Anyways, time slots are a big loving deal in Japan. It's why Toei makes infinite episodes anime. Even if it wasn't due to Xros Wars, keeping it would be very useful for them. Even if it was for the absolute waste of potential that was Saint Seiya Omega.

Also episode...okay? Pretty boring animation and battles again, I guess we get one good episode every few months, but at least we got plot for once. And Komondomon is excellent, I love this dog.

Seiyal
Jul 9, 2015

In my mind I just pretend. My brain is my only true friend.
Yeah, the timeslot thing is a super big deal in Japan and Toei's had some primo landing spots for their stuff for awhile now. Digimon shows have normally been on Fuji TV (with the exception of Xros Wars and Appmon which were on TV Tokyo iirc) and normally in a timeslot on Sunday mornings in Japan. To make a comparison, it's why the big big shows stay on for years (stuff like Detective Conan, One Piece, etc) because they get eyes on them in those timeslots. Getting anywhere from 5-10+% ratings is a very big deal and long-runners in good timeslots will stay there as long as they keep that up.

It's why there was all this concern when Pokemon moved to a new timeslot alongside some of Toei's mainstays like Super Sentai and Kamen Rider and ratings looked terrible for awhile. These shows don't have the greatest ratings anymore anyways but take a megalith like Pokemon and it'll eat just about anyone's lunch for sure.

(To compare, it's been awhile since I checked, but Adventure: hasn't charted recently but it has definitely been an odd year so it's a bit hard to judge if it would have normally, due to all the other shows moving around etc. There's a simple version of a ratings chart here https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2020-12-18/japanese-animation-tv-ranking-december-7-13/.167586 and you can definitely see a pattern as to what ends up with good ratings and what doesn't.)

Blaze Dragon posted:

I'm pretty sure this was not the case. Xros Wars was as long as it was because it managed to sell great.

As much as I was talking up Xros Wars earlier, it is true that the toy line did not sell well at all. Digimon (in general as of late) has made the bulk of its toys move to be stuff that collectors pick up on Premium Bandai. Even the new Digivice from the show was on Premium Bandai if I'm remembering right. Now, since they're attempting stuff like another card game and releasing it internationally, perhaps that'll change? That and the new Vital Bracelet (which they've said may be getting released internationally) could be the start of a new merchandise push too.

Seiyal fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Jan 10, 2021

Killingyouguy!
Sep 8, 2014

So I have watched the first episode of appmon and wait a second, this is The Emoji Movie

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Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


Killingyouguy! posted:

So I have watched the first episode of appmon and wait a second, this is The Emoji Movie

Appmon is good so that comparison doesn't hold water.

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