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Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:The cops opened the capitol doors and let the mob in.
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Jan 10, 2021 20:24
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Fabricated posted:he's talking about the national guard NG are less likely to shoot at other Americans than the cops are.
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Jan 10, 2021 20:24
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Go take a trip to Parler, r/conservative, FB, any other nazi space. They are overjoyed at how Wednesday went and they're planning more of this. Congress isn't going to do a loving thing with any real consequences for the ringleaders. It's too late, the cat's out of the bag, and we're going to get to enjoy an unprecedented wave of domestic terrorism perpetrated by ham radio grandpas and 22 year old white supremacists with noms de guerre like kek1488.
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Jan 10, 2021 20:26
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Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:NG are less likely to shoot at other Americans than the cops are. the national guard are much less likely to shoot at black people in their homes and much more likely to shoot at an armed mob trying to break into a government building. or at least close ranks and actually stop them. you can be a catastrophizing cynic but don't be deliberately dense
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Jan 10, 2021 20:31
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Fabricated posted:It actually looks like a fair amount of effort is being made to do exactly that, insofar as DC is concerned. seriously. unlike DC, a lot of states are open carry shitshows. hell, earlier this year people were parading around with their metal binkies inside the capitol building.
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Jan 10, 2021 20:33
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Sagebrush posted:the national guard are much less likely to shoot at black people in their homes and much more likely to shoot at an armed mob trying to break into a government building. or at least close ranks and actually stop them. You're aware that this is essentially a white supremacist movement and that white supremacists have been systematically and deliberately taking over law enforcement and military power structures in this country for decades, right?
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Jan 10, 2021 20:33
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Sagebrush posted:the national guard are much less likely to shoot at black people in their homes and much more likely to shoot at an armed mob trying to break into a government building. or at least close ranks and actually stop them. yeah, in the case of active insurrection i’d bank on a deployed and geared up NG blowing people away before cops.
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Jan 10, 2021 20:36
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President Beep posted:yeah, in the case of active insurrection i’d bank on a deployed and geared up NG blowing people away before cops. Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:You're aware that this is essentially a white supremacist movement and that white supremacists have been systematically and deliberately taking over law enforcement and military power structures in this country for decades, right?
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Jan 10, 2021 20:37
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Sagebrush posted:nutjobs like the air force lady aside, military servicemembers are broadly what the police claim to be: working class people who signed up to get a better life honorably protecting the weak. even if that last part is true (and that's a big if), none of it matters if all of the officers are chuds
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Jan 10, 2021 20:39
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well, yeah, but that doesn’t mean they’re mirror images of each other in all ways. cops are always around, but if the national guard is armed and deployed they’re already going in with the mindset that there’s going to be serious violence (more so than cops).
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Jan 10, 2021 20:41
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this is all dumb to argue about anyway. hell, i don’t even really have an informed stance.
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Jan 10, 2021 20:42
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given that the coup failed because the cops and military didn't join the chuds i'm not sure what evidence exists that they were just waiting for next time. they tried and failed and business/capital has come down on the side of the government rather than the insurrectionists. it'll take a long time to root out all the chuds but every day the public response is more galvanized against them, and them acting out is just going to further galvanize support for rooting them out.
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Jan 10, 2021 20:42
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my concern there is that enough of them are in the mix on the enforcement side that they can gently caress with things, eg letting insurrections into “secure” areas.
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Jan 10, 2021 20:44
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i don't think tori actually interacts with any military servicemembers and that's why he thinks they're all white supremacists. no one is arguing that the cops are, that's blatant. the military are not the same as the cops. like, the military is overwhelmingly in favor of renaming its bases that are currently named after confederate soldiers. they were set to do it in the summer and trump vetoed the plans.
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Jan 10, 2021 20:44
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kitten emergency posted:given that the coup failed because the cops and military didn't join the chuds i'm not sure what evidence exists that they were just waiting for next time. they tried and failed and business/capital has come down on the side of the government rather than the insurrectionists. it'll take a long time to root out all the chuds but every day the public response is more galvanized against them, and them acting out is just going to further galvanize support for rooting them out. Watch the videos, not all the cops participated but a bunch just let the rioters in. The coup failed because Ralph Northam offered to deploy the VA NG after Trump refused to deploy the DC NG. That's it. They're learned from this and they aren't going to make mistakes next time.
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Jan 10, 2021 20:44
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Sagebrush posted:i don't think tori actually interacts with any military servicemembers and that's why he thinks they're all white supremacists. no one is arguing that the cops are, that's blatant. the military are not the same as the cops. Every generation of my family going back over a century were military and I only didn't join the Air Force because I got failed out of MEPS for smoking weed. If the officers are chuds it doesn't matter if the rank and file are just poor kids trying to get a degree.
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Jan 10, 2021 20:46
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kitten emergency posted:given that the coup failed because the cops and military didn't join the chuds i'm not sure what evidence exists that they were just waiting for next time. they tried and failed and business/capital has come down on the side of the government rather than the insurrectionists. it'll take a long time to root out all the chuds but every day the public response is more galvanized against them, and them acting out is just going to further galvanize support for rooting them out. the ones that didn't join in wasn't because they were waiting for a next time, they didn't join in because they weren't sufficiently organized i'm not optimistic about this galvanization lasting. the insurrectionists are extremely good at playing the victim and appealing to 'both sides' idiots
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Jan 10, 2021 20:46
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Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:Watch the videos, not all the cops participated but a bunch just let the rioters in. secret service or the sgt at arms who were in suits and actually drawing and using guns followed by the FBI HRT probably had more to do with that, the NG can’t mobilize that fast
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Jan 10, 2021 20:47
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(ps. my family were all white supremacists despite being enlisted lol)
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Jan 10, 2021 20:47
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hobbesmaster posted:secret service or the sgt at arms who were in suits and actually drawing and using guns followed by the FBI HRT probably had more to do with that, the NG can’t mobilize that fast That lady getting a remote tracheotomy procedure was probably a huge factor, yeah, but Ralph Northam saying he'd deploy the NG is what got Pence or whoever to deploy the DC NG.
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Jan 10, 2021 20:47
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Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:Ralph Northam saying he'd deploy the NG is what got Pence or whoever to deploy the DC NG. jfc. 
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Jan 10, 2021 20:48
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PIZZA.BAT posted:the ones that didn't join in wasn't because they were waiting for a next time, they didn't join in because they weren't sufficiently organized remember that joint declaration from every former secretary of state that came out just weeks ago reminding the military what their responsibilities were? that wasn't an accident. the higher ups absolutely knew what was coming and was able to shut out trump before it was too late. the next attempt won't make the same mistake
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Jan 10, 2021 20:49
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DC NG answers directly to the president and they refused multiple requests to deploy, so consider the implications of that.
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Jan 10, 2021 20:50
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that plus what we saw on jan 6th has pretty much confirmed to me that trump was directly asking generals to deploy soldiers to the national mall for his rally
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Jan 10, 2021 20:50
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Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:DC NG answers directly to the president and they refused multiple requests to deploy, so consider the implications of that. the "implications" of that is that trump installed his toady into the DoD a couple of weeks ago probably with that exact scenario in mind. there's no secret there. that guy will be out shortly
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Jan 10, 2021 20:52
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yeah trump literally tried to do a coup and it failed because the military decided they didn't want any of that. pence and the secretary of the army went over his head. we literally had a military junta for a few hours.
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Jan 10, 2021 20:55
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kitten emergency posted:yeah trump literally tried to do a coup and it failed because the military decided they didn't want any of that. pence and the secretary of the army went over his head. we literally had a military junta for a few hours. i'm convinced that pence is still the shadow president even now
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Jan 10, 2021 20:55
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Sagebrush posted:the "implications" of that is that trump installed his toady into the DoD a couple of weeks ago probably with that exact scenario in mind. there's no secret there. "the president is able to install loyalists and do whatever he wants, up to and including a coup attempt, but no big deal because when they say the magical spell on the 20th all of this will *poof* out of existence" lmao
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Jan 10, 2021 20:56
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PIZZA.BAT posted:i'm convinced that pence is still the shadow president even now the 25th doesn’t actually have a requirement that the actions are public. pelosi’s discussions with the military could’ve been “I have a letter from pence that will go public if trump does anything stupid”
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Jan 10, 2021 20:57
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you're just ricocheting at high speed between "lol you don't have to look at the bigger picture, what about this specific example" and "that specific example doesn't count, what does it say for the bigger picture". at least pick a goddamn lane cop are broadly white supremacists, military are broadly not, and the military is much better at protecting america and americans than the police ever will be. that's my only point
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Jan 10, 2021 20:58
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Even if Trump fucks off after this month to Corsica and never says another word in public again, the fascist movement he built is going to be around for the rest of our lives.
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Jan 10, 2021 20:58
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i’ve read carefully all the posts in this thread i my learned opinion is lol
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Jan 10, 2021 21:01
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here are some fat dumb baby pandas rolling around https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GsvgKu1060
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Jan 10, 2021 21:02
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hobbesmaster posted:the 25th doesn’t actually have a requirement that the actions are public. pelosi’s discussions with the military could’ve been “I have a letter from pence that will go public if trump does anything stupid” hmm i would say this is far fetched but well.... *gestures at everything happening so much* Sagebrush posted:here are some fat dumb baby pandas rolling around ty
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Jan 10, 2021 21:03
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Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:Even if Trump fucks off after this month to Corsica and never says another word in public again, the fascist movement he built is going to be around for the rest of our lives. Did literally everyone forget the 90's
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Jan 10, 2021 21:05
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PIZZA.BAT posted:i'm convinced that pence is still the shadow president even now We don't have a president right now. If something happened that required action there would just be a cluster gently caress of phone calls between people don't have enough authority to do anything. It would be exactly the same as trying to get the national guard activated in DC.
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Jan 10, 2021 21:07
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Salt Fish posted:We don't have a president right now. If something happened that required action there would just be a cluster gently caress of phone calls between people don't have enough authority to do anything. It would be exactly the same as trying to get the national guard activated in DC. pence approved that eventually. I think pence because of that would just become de facto president even if all the i’s aren’t dotted and t’s aren’t crossed now, I suspect what he overrides would result in nothing happening but that’s probably preferable given the circumstances
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Jan 10, 2021 21:08
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this aged well https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1346748636852596736
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Jan 10, 2021 21:09
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applying for a job in the biden administration i see
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Jan 10, 2021 21:10
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Fabricated posted:They were always there Yeah, did everyone forget 1996, when a band of armed fascists invaded the Capitol building and tried to kill Nancy Pelosi and Mike Pence?
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Jan 10, 2021 21:11
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