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josh04 posted:Ofc not, but the anti-war position on the Iraq war was also not niche - millions of people marched and protested and generally understood at the time that although Saddam Hussein was an unpleasant dictator, the US invasion was not justified and was not going to lead to good results either for the people of Iraq or for world peace - and of course the reason he had been in power for so long was due to the US quietly arming and backing him. Contemporary support for the Iraq war is, unconditionally, something to be embarrassed by. Right, and as pointed out, Snyder seems to have evolved on his views.
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Jan 13, 2021 01:28
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Interesting Twitter thread about Geoff Johns meddling: https://twitter.com/batkilmer/status/1349126429770993666?s=21 Apparently James Wan originally pitched Aquaman as a creature horror feature influenced by John Carpenter and James Cameron, Johns was re-writing the scripts of JL and Suicide Squad on-set and they had to shoot the changes, Snyder is removing the Johns bits from JL because he also shot the original script as well as the edits, and during a book interview the only two things Snyder wouldn’t talk about were (1) if ZSJL is closure for him and the DC universe and (2) anything about Geoff Johns.
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Jan 13, 2021 01:28
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Roth posted:Right, and as pointed out, Snyder seems to have evolved on his views. I agree!
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Jan 13, 2021 01:30
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Hodgepodge posted:Bill Hicks managed to for Gulf War 1. and, as he points out, the material kept him more or less anonymous in his own lifetime. The one joke I've seen get Jimmy Carr in trouble in the UK, a man who's done jokes about rape, murder, child murder and so on, was a joke about returned British servicemen. It's actually a really good joke that, if you think about it for a moment, is super positive (after doing a charity gig for amputee soldiers, he said 'say what you like about the war on terror, but we're going to dominate the next paralympics') had him discussed on morning tv as someone who should be banned from TV. It's just interesting that we three countries all picked that as our sacred subject.
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Jan 13, 2021 01:31
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Violator posted:Interesting Twitter thread about Geoff Johns meddling: the replies are kinda weird, I didn't realise Johns still had so many people that liked his work. I mean as cool as Aquaman was I wish we got more horror elements because the taste we got was loving awesome and considering that was Wan's playground, why not trust the dude you hired to make a movie he'd be really good at making?
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Jan 13, 2021 02:14
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Wasn't Sarah Polley's take that he was an absolute kook politically, but was fine to work with? I like Polley but she's definitely described liberals as "left wing" before; it's somewhat understandable when yankees do that, but totally confusing for a canuck. I'd take her political comments with a pinch of salt fwiw
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Jan 13, 2021 02:42
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It feels like you guys are talking about Geoff Johns in the same way as that Ari guy who ruined Spiderman 3. As far as I know Geoff Johns is a creative so meddling from a creative who paid his dues seems less icky than coming from just some rich guy. I could be way off base though as the only DC movies i saw (and liked) were BvS and Man of Steel.
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Jan 13, 2021 02:44
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Geoff Johns was essentially the poster boy of DC during the 00s-10s, so I'd compare it more to Shigeru Miyamoto repeatedly ruining Paper Mario with terrible ideas.
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Jan 13, 2021 02:51
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Yea Johns actually did some excellent work initially, his Flash run is still one of my favorites and I revisit it from time to time, the Green Lantern stuff was also cool and overhauled that entire mythos (prior to that the Corps itself hadn’t been part of the story for awhile) Either he used up all his ideas early and/or he just does better when he has more editorial oversight. Once he got final say on a lot of stuff it became...worse. And needless to say his meddling in the movies hasn’t been for the better.
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Jan 13, 2021 03:04
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Isn't there some sort of weird twist where Cyborg is his pet character but he hosed over Ray Fisher in the role for reasons?
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Jan 13, 2021 03:18
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Yes, but I'm not so sure Geoff Johns actually cares about Cyborg. His use in his Justice League is purely as a plot device.
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Jan 13, 2021 03:28
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Geoff Johns' pet characters are "the guys who were on the Justice League in the late 70s and early 80s when I was a kid" which is why he brought back Hal Jordan and Barry Allen after they'd been replaced for a decade and 3 decades respectively. I actually had (have?) a Superfriends DVD that someone got for my birthday years back where he and Mark Waid do commentary on a few episodes, so I am pretty sure his fondness for Cyborg comes from him being the one black guy on the team in that, and wanting to recreate that exact lineup (likewise Martian Manhunter never showed up on SF so got marginalized as soon as Johns became CCO)
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Jan 13, 2021 03:59
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Violator posted:Apparently James Wan originally pitched Aquaman as a creature horror feature influenced by John Carpenter and James Cameron Ah goddamn it!
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Jan 13, 2021 04:22
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Geoff Johns had too much control over the direction of DC Comics. I caught up with DC Comics near the tail end of the New 52 era right before Rebirth. Pretty much everything by Johns was mediocre to bad. The best stuff from New 52 was by other writers and a good chunk of it got retconned again at Rebirth. (Wonder Woman was so good.) I'll admit I really liked Forever Evil.
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Jan 13, 2021 05:02
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Roth posted:Yes, but I'm not so sure Geoff Johns actually cares about Cyborg. His use in his Justice League is purely as a plot device. Yeah, I remember hearing that Cyborg basically spent like 90% of the time out of action and basically got to do absolutely nothing interesting. (Although not much of a step down, given the Teen Titans comics are generally famously awful, even after the cartoon was the first time they actually appealed to their target demographic. A shitload of fans back in the day loved the show with only vague ideas of how it was connected to the rest of DC, doesn't help Robin hadn't been much of a thing for years)
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Jan 13, 2021 05:42
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Crosswell posted:It feels like you guys are talking about Geoff Johns in the same way as that Ari guy who ruined Spiderman 3. As far as I know Geoff Johns is a creative so meddling from a creative who paid his dues seems less icky than coming from just some rich guy. I could be way off base though as the only DC movies i saw (and liked) were BvS and Man of Steel. Avi Arad sucks rear end
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Jan 13, 2021 05:48
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Cyborg has a lot of potential, as does any character that gets used by dozens of writers across decades, which is why it's been so disappointing seeing him so poorly used.
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Jan 13, 2021 06:09
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Roth posted:I'm not all that broken up that Snyder was not a fan of the dictator. loving lol at this post
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Jan 13, 2021 07:59
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Roth posted:Cyborg has a lot of potential, as does any character that gets used by dozens of writers across decades, which is why it's been so disappointing seeing him so poorly used. And Snyder was probably the first one to actually try.
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Jan 13, 2021 08:14
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Aces High posted:the replies are kinda weird, I didn't realise Johns still had so many people that liked his work. I mean as cool as Aquaman was I wish we got more horror elements because the taste we got was loving awesome and considering that was Wan's playground, why not trust the dude you hired to make a movie he'd be really good at making?
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Jan 13, 2021 18:43
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My favorite thing about Johns is that he is a Cyborg superfan, like singlehandedly brought the character back from being basically forgotten in the 80's and 90's to an incredibly prominent role but is extremely annoyed by the fact that the actor that plays Cyborg has a mind of his own. What a loving tool.josh04 posted:This just in, Snyderdome splits over the issue of... *checks notes* support of the Ba'athist party?! Saddam was a mixed bag.
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Jan 13, 2021 19:08
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Saddam, boy, I don't know
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Jan 13, 2021 19:12
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Look, both sides have valid points. In other news, it looks like ZSJL will be getting a 4K Blu-ray release. 
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Jan 13, 2021 19:32
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teagone posted:Yes. Because Zack photoshopped himself stepping on Saddam Hussein's throat and showed everyone saying, "isn't this cool?" or something to that effect, lmao. I love that this annecdote turned into a bunch heming and hawing about supporting the Iraq war or whatever, and nobody's talking about how he photoshopped himself stepping on Saddam's throat. Like, who does that?
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Jan 13, 2021 19:46
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Photoshop was also still something of a novelty at the time.
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Jan 13, 2021 19:54
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Patrick Spens posted:I love that this annecdote turned into a bunch heming and hawing about supporting the Iraq war or whatever, and nobody's talking about how he photoshopped himself stepping on Saddam's throat. Like, who does that? It was 2003. This forum literally had photoshop challenges where people would poorly shop GWB's head onto a Marlboro Man ad and add a caption like "here's two things that give you cancer" in Impact Bold and it was considered the height of hilarity.
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Jan 13, 2021 19:58
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So this is the one example of something he created that shouldn't be analysed through a psychoanalytic lens?
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Jan 13, 2021 20:07
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It's so easy to scoff at 'it was a different time' but Yeah, it was a different time. Back when Toby Keith threatening foot anal brought cheers across radio stations everywhere The tone didn't start shifting for the majority of people until 2004/2005.
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Jan 13, 2021 20:09
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Burkion posted:Back when Toby Keith threatening foot anal brought cheers across radio stations everywhere I'm sure that's a typo but 
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Jan 13, 2021 20:12
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^ it's notEmptyVessel posted:So this is the one example of something he created that shouldn't be analysed through a psychoanalytic lens? Well, hence the two-page discussion about 9/11 brain and the Iraq war.
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Jan 13, 2021 20:14
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Violator posted:Apparently James Wan originally pitched Aquaman as a creature horror feature influenced by John Carpenter and James Cameron I'm not sure how I feel about this, as another 'dark' DC movie might've gone splat against the wall of smug expectations, whereas the goofier, messier version we got seemed to calm DC discourse because "okay, at least this one was fun" (then Shazam, then Birds of Prey to an R-rated extent). "Why is James Wan trying to make this all SERIOUS and SPOOKY?" versus "Okay, the characters made fun of themselves for the first hour and a half, they may now get one hero moment apiece during the climax to reassure us that they *are* worth taking seriously."
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Jan 13, 2021 20:17
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Patrick Spens posted:I love that this annecdote turned into a bunch heming and hawing about supporting the Iraq war or whatever, and nobody's talking about how he photoshopped himself stepping on Saddam's throat. Like, who does that? I was in my sophomore year of high school around the time of the second Iraq War. I literally made a website that played a flash-based photo slideshow of US Military operations in Iraq, specifically the battles of Fallujah, with music and poo poo. I did that in my spare time. Imagine that. Lmao.
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Jan 13, 2021 20:18
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EmptyVessel posted:So this is the one example of something he created that shouldn't be analysed through a psychoanalytic lens? No it should, and the lense is "he had 9/11 brain and was a total dumbass"
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Jan 13, 2021 20:20
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RBA Starblade posted:I'm sure that's a typo but And you'll be sorry that you messed with The U.S. of A 'Cause we'll put a boot in your rear end It's the American way It's like ya'll don't remember the age of Freedom Fries.
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Jan 13, 2021 20:27
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Who here remembers 9/11 era Newground's videos?
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Jan 13, 2021 20:31
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Forget newgrounds, how about StickDeath.com? Imagine what that dude is like now.
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Jan 13, 2021 20:53
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:No it should, and the lense is "he had 9/11 brain and was a total dumbass" So basically, "We all went mad and shouldn't be held responsible, it was just the times"? Fairish point but, a very US-centric view, and also an excuse that would have come in handy in immediately post-WW2 Germany. Note: I am not suggesting that Snyder is even remotely a Nazi or Nazi-adjacent (opinions about the US Overton Window aside), but it's an obvious parallel. Wonder what he thinks about that image now; "lmao" - bad look, "jeez I really was a bit of a twat*" - good look. * would have put the c-word but refrained out of respect for your cultural sensitivites.
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Jan 13, 2021 20:55
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Jan 13, 2021 20:57
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EmptyVessel posted:So basically, "We all went mad and shouldn't be held responsible, it was just the times"? Fairish point but, a very US-centric view, and also an excuse that would have come in handy in immediately post-WW2 Germany.
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Jan 13, 2021 21:01
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EmptyVessel posted:So basically, "We all went mad and shouldn't be held responsible, it was just the times"? Fairish point but, a very US-centric view, and also an excuse that would have come in handy in immediately post-WW2 Germany. Everyone said he sucks but deems it likely that he has grown, given that he went on to make multiple movies where people with that viewpoint are the bad guys
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Jan 13, 2021 21:08
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