funy tech shit u just remembered v2.0. 56k-safe

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > funy tech shit u just remembered v2.0. 56k-safe

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Jabor: Jul 16, 2010; #1 Loser at SpaceChem

tetris

# ? Jan 15, 2021 13:13

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# ? Apr 23, 2024 10:54

Carthag Tuek: Oct 15, 2005; Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
sl�gt skal f�lge sl�gters gang

jre posted:

Not 100% sure about c64, but the add on tape drives for the BBC micro had a control line for stopping and starting the tape automatically.

( Rem being remote control )

at least the one i had was fully manual

youd also save stuff by hitting record when the program prompted you, or before hitting return on your own SAVE command

# ? Jan 15, 2021 13:51

mystes: May 31, 2006

eschaton posted:

QuickTime was extremely widely licensed, and its concepts and file format underly video today

I think the browser plug-in was even up there with Flash and Java for how widely distributed it was

who knows why nobody made something like YouTube with it instead of Flash, maybe Flash let YouTube obfuscate a bit or something

Wasn't quicktime a lot less flexible in terms of being able to program it to work however you wanted to integrate it into your site?

# ? Jan 15, 2021 13:56

Carthag Tuek: Oct 15, 2005; Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
sl�gt skal f�lge sl�gters gang

mystes posted:

Wasn't quicktime a lot less flexible in terms of being able to program it to work however you wanted to integrate it into your site?

yeah you couldnt customize the appearance at the time

# ? Jan 15, 2021 14:01

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

echinopsis posted:

i could never understand why it was so difficult to just not allow the browser to open new windows

because opening popups is the only reason javascript exists and it was a big deal to disable that core functionality

# ? Jan 15, 2021 14:35

Mr. Nice!: Oct 13, 2005; c-spam cannot afford

right click is not allowed on this website

# ? Jan 15, 2021 14:52

in a well actually: Jan 26, 2011; dude, you gotta end it on the rhyme

eschaton posted:

this was possible and worked well with QuickTime for nearly a decade before YouTube was introduced

the �fast start� movie layout that puts all chunk description atoms up front and orders them was first created to use with CD-ROM, which was originally only about three times as fast as 56K dialup; this let a movie play smoothly while being retrieved, as long as it didn�t need more bits/second than were coming down (possibly after some preroll)

then Apple not only added RTSP support to QuickTime in the mid-1990s, but also wrote an RTSP server that ran on UNIX and made it Open Source in like 1998-99 and could deliver tons of movies at once with the ability for users to scrub through them, jump anywhere, etc.

YouTube doing it all with Flash was a big step backwards

56k modems only got 5 kbyte/s vs 150 kbyte/s from 1x cdrom

# ? Jan 15, 2021 15:02

Carthag Tuek: Oct 15, 2005; Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
sl�gt skal f�lge sl�gters gang

echinopsis posted:

i could never understand why it was so difficult to just not allow the browser to open new windows

its kindof annoying when say a forum has external links open in the same tab/window by default (ie no href target="_new" or whatever its called) so you have to remember to do that yourself. it would suck if you always had to do it

javascript windows can gently caress right off though

# ? Jan 15, 2021 15:06

Carthag Tuek: Oct 15, 2005; Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
sl�gt skal f�lge sl�gters gang

PCjr sidecar posted:

56k modems only got 5 kbyte/s vs 150 kbyte/s from 1x cdrom

you forgot to factor in the grease on the cdrom increasing seek times

(unless you used caddies like the commodore cdtv)

# ? Jan 15, 2021 15:09

3D Megadoodoo: Nov 25, 2010

Carthag Tuek posted:

wouldnt think that was possible, the tape drive was extremely simple & i would assume the motors were only controllable with the buttons on the drive itself

the disk drive was controlled by the computer & could do fun stuff

also both had lovely firmware so there were a lot of turbo loaders around (both as hardware cartridges or ones you loaded from your turbo disk first)

Carthag Tuek posted:

at least the one i had was fully manual

youd also save stuff by hitting record when the program prompted you, or before hitting return on your own SAVE command

if you've ever actually loaded anything off a tape with the Commodore Datasette, you'll have noticed that the motor stops automatically at the FOUND prompt, and starts moving automatically when you press a keyboard key

# ? Jan 15, 2021 15:11

duz: Jul 11, 2005; Come on Ilhan, lets go bag us a shitpost

Carthag Tuek posted:

its kindof annoying when say a forum has external links open in the same tab/window by default (ie no href target="_new" or whatever its called) so you have to remember to do that yourself. it would suck if you always had to do it

javascript windows can gently caress right off though

always middle click all links

# ? Jan 15, 2021 15:22

echinopsis: Apr 13, 2004; by Fluffdaddy

Carthag Tuek posted:

its kindof annoying when say a forum has external links open in the same tab/window by default (ie no href target="_new" or whatever its called) so you have to remember to do that yourself. it would suck if you always had to do it

wrong! if I wanted it in a new tab I'd middle click it

efficiency supremacy

# ? Jan 15, 2021 15:26

3D Megadoodoo: Nov 25, 2010

I can find NOTHING on the internet about a Commodore 64 using the Datasette motor for sound effects now, but I'm sure I didn't just make it up myself

# ? Jan 15, 2021 15:26

Mr. Nice!: Oct 13, 2005; c-spam cannot afford

duz posted:

always middle click all links

i do this on everything except loving lexis because doing that just brings you right to the exact same point in the case or statute that you were looking at instead of opening up the actual link. you have to right click and click open in a new tab to get it to work right.

# ? Jan 15, 2021 15:27

Carthag Tuek: Oct 15, 2005; Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
sl�gt skal f�lge sl�gters gang

3D Megadoodoo posted:

if you've ever actually loaded anything off a tape with the Commodore Datasette, you'll have noticed that the motor stops automatically at the FOUND prompt, and starts moving automatically when you press a keyboard key

wtf this never happened

# ? Jan 15, 2021 15:30

President Beep: Apr 30, 2009; i have to have a car because otherwise i cant drive around the country solving mysteries while being doggedly pursued by federal marshals for a crime i did not commit (9/11)

3D Megadoodoo posted:

I can find NOTHING on the internet about a Commodore 64 using the Datasette motor for sound effects now, but I'm sure I didn't just make it up myself

Carthag Tuek posted:

wtf this never happened

jerry has lost his marbles for good

# ? Jan 15, 2021 15:31

axolotl farmer: May 17, 2007; Now I'm going to sing the Perry Mason theme

3D Megadoodoo posted:

I can find NOTHING on the internet about a Commodore 64 using the Datasette motor for sound effects now, but I'm sure I didn't just make it up myself

there were demos that used the Amiga disk drive to play music

# ? Jan 15, 2021 15:31

Carthag Tuek: Oct 15, 2005; Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
sl�gt skal f�lge sl�gters gang

President Beep posted:

jerry has lost his marbles for good

# ? Jan 15, 2021 15:44

Carthag Tuek: Oct 15, 2005; Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
sl�gt skal f�lge sl�gters gang

axolotl farmer posted:

there were demos that used the Amiga disk drive to play music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT0JOIPxyE8

e: lol at ejecting while its playing

# ? Jan 15, 2021 15:45

Carthag Tuek: Oct 15, 2005; Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
sl�gt skal f�lge sl�gters gang

also god i miss the c64/amiga demo scene

modern demos dont do anything for me, even 4k demos cheat by using directx or whatever

nice, a 2021 c64 demo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXVQfPRs_ns

moskau! moskau!

# ? Jan 15, 2021 15:48

EIDE Van Hagar: Dec 8, 2000; Beep Boop

echinopsis posted:

hey when someone had a tape drive backup, what was the benefit? density back then?

and hows it work? did it manage its own start/stop?

tape drives like c64 intrigue me I guess because the computer has no control over the data coming in. I suppose it was slow.

tape backups are still used all over the place for archival purposes. i got IT to restore tape backups of things (usually the design stuff is archived after a product is released) couple times at intel and the economist had a good article about it recently:

https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2020/12/15/magnetic-tape-has-a-surprisingly-promising-future

quote:

Demand for more storage will certainly be there. Estimates suggest that four times more data will be generated in 2025 than in 2019. In the part of the data-storage market where tape currently reigns supreme, it is likely to remain so for a while.

The biggest threat to tape comes from the flash-drive technology used in sd cards and usb sticks. Flash relies on a flow of electrons through transistors, rather than on magnetised particles read by mechanical components, so it is capable of better data densities even than hard disks. Lack of moving parts also makes such solid-state devices faster at writing and retrieving information. Flash drives are, however, more costly than magnetic storage and do not last as long. This makes them ten times more expensive per byte per year of storage than hard disks, and nearly 50 times more expensive than tape. They are therefore too dear to use for anything but the most important jewels in the data vault. Until that changes, the reel is likely to continue.

# ? Jan 15, 2021 16:03

Carthag Tuek: Oct 15, 2005; Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
sl�gt skal f�lge sl�gters gang

EIDE Van Hagar posted:

four times more data will be generated in 2025 than in 2019

that seems low

# ? Jan 15, 2021 16:05

Best Bi Geek Squid: Mar 25, 2016

Carthag Tuek posted:

that seems low

well they banned trump from Twitter, so that�s a lot of lost content there

# ? Jan 15, 2021 16:13

in a well actually: Jan 26, 2011; dude, you gotta end it on the rhyme

tape or tape-likes are still the cheapest way to store a LOT of data you don�t access, but the tipping point gets higher every year

right now that�s like 10-50 PB.

# ? Jan 15, 2021 16:17

President Beep: Apr 30, 2009; i have to have a car because otherwise i cant drive around the country solving mysteries while being doggedly pursued by federal marshals for a crime i did not commit (9/11)

how long is data on tape good for?

# ? Jan 15, 2021 16:23

in a well actually: Jan 26, 2011; dude, you gotta end it on the rhyme

iirc data center stuff like lto advertises 30 years

hard to keep the drives and around and usable for that long tho, so most places have a library management where they rotate out media to newer formats

# ? Jan 15, 2021 16:27

Carthag Tuek: Oct 15, 2005; Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
sl�gt skal f�lge sl�gters gang

Best Bi Geek Squid posted:

well they banned trump from Twitter, so that�s a lot of lost content there

fair

i would still say at least 5-10x tho

# ? Jan 15, 2021 16:34

Best Bi Geek Squid: Mar 25, 2016

President Beep posted:

how long is data on tape good for?

until your dad hears ccr on the radio and tapes over it

# ? Jan 15, 2021 16:53

Carthag Tuek: Oct 15, 2005; Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
sl�gt skal f�lge sl�gters gang

Best Bi Geek Squid posted:

until your dad hears ccr on the radio and tapes over it

i believe you mean late night cinemaxx

# ? Jan 15, 2021 16:59

Pile Of Garbage: May 28, 2007

duz posted:

always middle click all links

i like to think there's a special place in hell for web devs that break that functionality, e.g. the dinguses at atlassian

edit: if we're talking LTO the latest is LTO9 which is like 45TB compressed or something. i've been semi-seriously considering a SAS LTO tape drive for home poo poo.

Pile Of Garbage fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Jan 15, 2021

# ? Jan 15, 2021 17:32

jesus WEP: Oct 17, 2004

Pile Of Garbage posted:

i like to think there's a special place in hell for web devs that break that functionality, e.g. the dinguses at atlassian

mega agreedo, gently caress jira making it harder to open the drat ticket instead of the lovely little preview pane

# ? Jan 15, 2021 17:41

echinopsis: Apr 13, 2004; by Fluffdaddy

EIDE Van Hagar posted:

tape backups are still used all over the place for archival purposes

sick

# ? Jan 15, 2021 17:44

Carthag Tuek: Oct 15, 2005; Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
sl�gt skal f�lge sl�gters gang

Pile Of Garbage posted:

i've been semi-seriously considering a SAS LTO tape drive for home poo poo.

ever consider you dont have to store a pile of g--oh, nevermind

# ? Jan 15, 2021 18:15

Pile Of Garbage: May 28, 2007

Carthag Tuek posted:

ever consider you dont have to store a pile of g--oh, nevermind

hey, my desires are half just hobbyist wanting to run a SAS LTO tape drive!

but yeah the other half is the pile!

# ? Jan 15, 2021 18:20

eschaton: Mar 7, 2007; Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

echinopsis posted:

hey when someone had a tape drive backup, what was the benefit? density back then?

and hows it work? did it manage its own start/stop?

depends on the era, but generally tape drives work in terms of �files� made up of consistently-sized blocks of data�512 bytes typically, though most modern tape systems support varying the size as long as it�s consistent within a file�with �marks� between them made up blocks of repeated data (e.g. a mark might be two blocks of zeros)

the drive does manage its own start/stop, the commands it responds to are typically things like �read 128 blocks of 512 bytes� and �write these 17 blocks of 8192 bytes�

having the marks between files does allow some more intelligent drives to support seeking back and forth between files, similar to a disk; in the 1970s and early 1980s there were even some systems that used small tapes for random-access storage instead of sequential-access:

HP DC100 on the HP 9825
DECtape II (which used the same tapes that were developed for HP DC100, but with DEC-specific formatting�in that the tape had to be formatted to be used, unlike an HP DC100)
Coleco Adam (yes really)

# ? Jan 15, 2021 20:53

eschaton: Mar 7, 2007; Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

echinopsis posted:

also did ram doublers or doublespace actually do anything at all

Connectix RAMdoubler worked exactly as advertised, it replaced the system pager with one that evicted pages from the working set by compressing them and sending them to another area of memory, and only writing them to disk if that was also filling up

you need a certain level of CPU performance for this to be reasonable because compressing pages and managing the compressed page area has to be fast, but once it is you can effectively get way better performance out of a virtual memory system

RAMdoubler also made a few other changes to how the operating system managed application and OS memory so as to increase sharing, reduce overhead, and allow memory partitions allocated to applications to be temporarily used for other data without affecting the applications they belonged to

all this means that I can install RAMdoubler on a Mac with a 68030, 68040, or PowerPC CPU and it really is like installing more RAM in it and only software that does hardcore low-level memory management (like older versions of Macintosh Common Lisp) even notices

# ? Jan 15, 2021 21:02

eschaton: Mar 7, 2007; Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

Carthag Tuek posted:

yeah you couldnt customize the appearance at the time

this is a feature not a bug

# ? Jan 15, 2021 21:05

eschaton: Mar 7, 2007; Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

PCjr sidecar posted:

56k modems only got 5 kbyte/s vs 150 kbyte/s from 1x cdrom

doh, 150KB/s not 150Kb/s

what�s an order of magnitude between friends

# ? Jan 15, 2021 21:07

eschaton: Mar 7, 2007; Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

EIDE Van Hagar posted:

tape backups are still used all over the place for archival purposes. i got IT to restore tape backups of things (usually the design stuff is archived after a product is released) couple times at intel and the economist had a good article about it recently:

https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2020/12/15/magnetic-tape-has-a-surprisingly-promising-future

and good Ciaphas works on tape robot software too

# ? Jan 15, 2021 21:09

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# ? Apr 23, 2024 10:54

Carthag Tuek: Oct 15, 2005; Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
sl�gt skal f�lge sl�gters gang

eschaton claims the quint

the questions is, how will rotor respond to this stealing of his crown?

# ? Jan 15, 2021 21:13

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > funy tech shit u just remembered v2.0. 56k-safe

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