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Potato Salad posted:Okay, so, Shallan RoW who did Formless end up being? was it just ... Shallan herself? Yeah Formless was just Shallan, but she was just dissociating really fuckin bad.
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Jan 14, 2021 19:42
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So I bit the bullet and finally started the Elantris audiobook. Compared to the narrator for Mistborn, this guy is complete trash tier. But beside that, I’m only three chapters in (so I’ve met the main three viewpoints) and I find myself completely disoriented. I feel like Brandon falls into the fantasy trap of “I’m going to throw a bunch of names of places and religions and concepts at you without any context” and my brain ends up just dumping it all out because I have no context for what is important. Just to make sure I have things straight, for characters, we have: - Fallen prince who is now a Dark Souls-like undead. Trapped in fallen magical city that is now a sludge prison. Meets problematic stereotype sidekick. - Princess/fiancée/“widow” of fallen prince. Seems like mischievous troublemaker. Has Navi-like sidekick. - Evil priest of evil empire? Wants to convert fallen prince’s land for mysterious emperor and/or god?
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Jan 14, 2021 23:23
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Hrathen is basically a mormon missionary -- specifically of the earlier breed that had more leeway to do their own thing -- except more obviously nefarious.
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Jan 14, 2021 23:29
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that is honestly good point, Elantris really predicts dark souls
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Jan 14, 2021 23:32
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Mordiceius posted:So I bit the bullet and finally started the Elantris audiobook. Compared to the narrator for Mistborn, this guy is complete trash tier. Elantris is very early and it shows, he also sticks with this rotation of the POV characters that doesn't help the pace because sometimes some characters don't have enough going on for that to happen looking at you princess
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Jan 14, 2021 23:33
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socialsecurity posted:Elantris is very early and it shows, he also sticks with this rotation of the POV characters that doesn't help the pace because sometimes some characters don't have enough going on for that to happen looking at you princess Yeah, I'm only near the end of chapter 3 and I'm hoping that I get my bearings soon because I feel like I am just completely lost with what is going on. It probably doesn't help that this narrator is... kinda loving terrible.
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Jan 15, 2021 01:03
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Mordiceius posted:Yeah, I'm only near the end of chapter 3 and I'm hoping that I get my bearings soon because I feel like I am just completely lost with what is going on. It probably doesn't help that this narrator is... kinda loving terrible. I know you're trying to do a marathon run, but you can just skip Elantris and come back to it later. I'm a big cosmere nerd and have read all the books at least once, most twice, but I have never read Elantris (because everyone basically agrees it sucks), and I have never felt like I'm missing anything valuable. If you do read all the other books you'll be able to catch references just by way of general familiarity, and you can go back later and read it from completionist sake.
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Jan 15, 2021 01:36
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Taffer posted:I know you're trying to do a marathon run, but you can just skip Elantris and come back to it later. I'm a big cosmere nerd and have read all the books at least once, most twice, but I have never read Elantris (because everyone basically agrees it sucks), and I have never felt like I'm missing anything valuable. If you do read all the other books you'll be able to catch references just by way of general familiarity, and you can go back later and read it from completionist sake. yeah can't stress enough that Elantris still only barely matters in the larger plot and it looks like it'll be years before it seriously matters (and even then, you can probably jump in whenever Elantris 2 comes out and get much better writing and I'm sure Brandon'll recap anything important readers need to know)
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Jan 15, 2021 01:40
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Mordiceius posted:Yeah, I'm only near the end of chapter 3 and I'm hoping that I get my bearings soon because I feel like I am just completely lost with what is going on. It probably doesn't help that this narrator is... kinda loving terrible. Elantris has the worst narrator, Warbreaker and Starsight have different ones but they are ok. The rest of the books are done by the Mistborn people so they are fantastic.
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Jan 15, 2021 01:54
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Hrathen is such a good character, though.
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Jan 15, 2021 03:29
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It is wild how much Elantris is just dark souls.
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Jan 15, 2021 20:06
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I think you've got that backwards, friendo.
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Jan 15, 2021 20:12
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Ok so I think I did things wrong and started with the Stormlight books. Now that I've finished them and want more Cosmere, should I dive into Mistborn or go with the one-offs?
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Jan 18, 2021 21:11
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Tokelau All Star posted:Ok so I think I did things wrong and started with the Stormlight books. Now that I've finished them and want more Cosmere, should I dive into Mistborn or go with the one-offs? In terms of most immediately relevant to things you've read, it's Warbreaker (one-off with multiple shared characters, if you've finished Stormlight you already know that Zahel is from somewhere else, plus it's a quick read) then Mistborn eke out fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Jan 18, 2021 |
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Jan 18, 2021 21:21
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Tokelau All Star posted:Ok so I think I did things wrong and started with the Stormlight books. Now that I've finished them and want more Cosmere, should I dive into Mistborn or go with the one-offs? You did nothing wrong! I started with Stormlight and I'm glad I did. If you want a one-off I'd read Warbreaker, though the writing quality is not up to the standard of Stormlight. But it's a fun book, and a quick read. If you want another series, yep, dive into Mistborn. There's no "right" way to read the cosmere stuff, you pick it up at a trickle no matter the order. The closest you can get to "right" in a cosmere sense is reading Warbreaker before Stormlight, but I wouldn't recommend a new reader that order, just because there's a big gap in writing quality.
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Jan 18, 2021 21:27
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The Emperor's Soul
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Jan 18, 2021 21:46
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Yeah as much as it's a standalone book The Emperor's Soul does really dive into some cosmere mechanics pretty heavy. You don't really notice it unless you're looking for it but the statements it makes about Identity and what not, do play into the cosmere quite a bit.
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Jan 18, 2021 22:15
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People always talk about The Emperors Soul (for good reason, it's great), but IMO Sixth of Dusk is Sanderson's best work. It's an absolutely incredible short story that packs so much into 2 hours that you feel like you just read a whole novel when you're done. He does really well in a short story format. Related to that... I was surprised to hear when watching the video of him interviewing his editors that he has never had a scene cut out of his books that he wanted to stay in. They basically said that the editors never push to cut anything, just bring up points about tone or continuity. I have no problem with long-form writing (in fact I think it's great) but I think he could really benefit from someone just saying to him that a scene sucks and threatening to cut something, to motivate him to ask himself more seriously the point of a scene is. There are lots of little parts, especially in RoW, that could be drastically shortened or cut entirely without impacting the book as a whole.
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Jan 18, 2021 22:47
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Brandon has an update out on Skyward #3, plus there's apparently three (!) Skyward novellas he's working on as well, because
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Jan 19, 2021 03:16
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Taffer posted:People always talk about The Emperors Soul (for good reason, it's great), but IMO Sixth of Dusk is Sanderson's best work. It's an absolutely incredible short story that packs so much into 2 hours that you feel like you just read a whole novel when you're done. He does really well in a short story format. "Sixth of Dusk" and "Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell" are both awesome, as is "The Emperor's Soul" - the short novella/novel really is his best medium. The Legion books are great too.
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Jan 19, 2021 04:00
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I think Legion would be Sanderson the best piece of writing for film/tv adaption but we will never see it.
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Jan 19, 2021 04:47
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Taffer posted:People always talk about The Emperors Soul (for good reason, it's great), but IMO Sixth of Dusk is Sanderson's best work. It's an absolutely incredible short story that packs so much into 2 hours that you feel like you just read a whole novel when you're done. He does really well in a short story format. I have a hard time believing none of his editors or reviewers have ever said “this Shallan stuff should go”. Calidus posted:I think Legion would be Sanderson the best piece of writing for film/tv adaption but we will never see it. Mistborn as a video game would be like Assassins Creed meets crackdown
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Jan 19, 2021 06:20
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If no editor told him to fully remove Lift as a character then he is paying them for nothing.
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Jan 19, 2021 07:49
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Captain Monkey posted:If no editor told him to fully remove Lift as a character then he is paying them for nothing. While Lift may be annoying to many, there is a certain part of the fanbase that loves the kind poo poo she represents and you know it.
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Jan 19, 2021 08:09
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Captain Monkey posted:If no editor told him to fully remove Lift as a character then he is paying them for nothing. It's believable that editors are less cut-happy than tearing out whole chunks of plot or character (the editors in that interview all emphasized "it's his book" and he should write it how he wants) , but more scene-level stuff should definitely be evaluated by an editor to figure out if it's needed. In that same interview he talked about how beta readers didn't like the Venli flashbacks so he did big rewrites (because his initial outline for Stormlight had no flashbacks from the Parshendi in book 2), but he straight up admitted that even after the rewrite a lot of the flashback content was telling readers things they already knew. So.... it should have just been cut down to the bones, either with fewer flashbacks for critical points or just changing the information delivery to a conversation or something. But it wasn't. I still love his works but he should definitely get an editor who is more critical of things like that.
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Jan 19, 2021 08:23
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Taffer posted:It's believable that editors are less cut-happy than tearing out whole chunks of plot or character (the editors in that interview all emphasized "it's his book" and he should write it how he wants) , but more scene-level stuff should definitely be evaluated by an editor to figure out if it's needed. In that same interview he talked about how beta readers didn't like the Venli flashbacks so he did big rewrites (because his initial outline for Stormlight had no flashbacks from the Parshendi in book 2), but he straight up admitted that even after the rewrite a lot of the flashback content was telling readers things they already knew. So.... it should have just been cut down to the bones, either with fewer flashbacks for critical points or just changing the information delivery to a conversation or something. But it wasn't. I still love his works but he should definitely get an editor who is more critical of things like that. yeah, beta readers aren't supposed to offer solutions, only basically report subjective experiences, so feedback from them is never going to be 'cut this scene', it'll be more 'this is telling me stuff I already know', or 'I'm bored' or something.
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Jan 19, 2021 08:38
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socialsecurity posted:While Lift may be annoying to many, there is a certain part of the fanbase that loves the kind poo poo she represents and you know it. But they’re wrong. 
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Jan 19, 2021 08:52
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Evil Fluffy posted:I have a hard time believing none of his editors or reviewers have ever said “this Shallan stuff should go”. Hey, I enjoy Shallan's arcs (and generally do so more than Kaladin's arcs, or Stormfather forbid, Lift). Taffer posted:It's believable that editors are less cut-happy than tearing out whole chunks of plot or character (the editors in that interview all emphasized "it's his book" and he should write it how he wants) , but more scene-level stuff should definitely be evaluated by an editor to figure out if it's needed. In that same interview he talked about how beta readers didn't like the Venli flashbacks so he did big rewrites (because his initial outline for Stormlight had no flashbacks from the Parshendi in book 2), but he straight up admitted that even after the rewrite a lot of the flashback content was telling readers things they already knew. So.... it should have just been cut down to the bones, either with fewer flashbacks for critical points or just changing the information delivery to a conversation or something. But it wasn't. I still love his works but he should definitely get an editor who is more critical of things like that. Tunicate posted:yeah, beta readers aren't supposed to offer solutions, only basically report subjective experiences, so feedback from them is never going to be 'cut this scene', it'll be more 'this is telling me stuff I already know', or 'I'm bored' or something. Looking through the various drafts (including the beta reader feedback) for Dawnshard is incredibly educational. He definitely does change stuff in response to feedback. If he hasn't changed it, then he's making the decision that he's gonna be okay, knowing the reaction that he's going to get. I wasn't a fan of the Venli flashbacks, even after the tweaks he did because I felt like she still didn't have enough of a journey, but there are genuinely readers out there who loved the Venli POVs and got what Sanderson was going for. Honestly the approach his editors discussed is pretty in line with critique principles that are consistent in most writing groups (both for literature and other creative endeavors). Generally you give the author/creator feedback on what your experience was, but you do not offer suggestions on how to fix it (unless they invite you to do so). Your experience as a reader/listener/whatever is not subjective in the sense that it was what you actually felt; conversely, any ideas that you have on how to fix it ARE subjective (because they are what you would do to improve the work according to your perspective, which may or may not be the author's intent). So I'm not surprised that they don't make him cut scenes...deciding what to cut at a structural level is generally an author's prerogative. Editors (and other readers) can give the author feedback on why a scene doesn't work for them, but cutting the scene may not necessarily be the solution to fixing that problem. Usually when I take scenes to writing groups, I'm looking for their emotional reactions and whether how they understand the characters has changed the way I intended. When something's broken, I often take it to a writing group to see if they identify the same things that I think are broken with it, but 95 times out of 100, any fixes they suggest wouldn't work. Their suggestions are always based on how they would write the piece instead of how I would write it, and therefore would change that part of the piece into something totally different instead (at which point I would have tone/consistency issues).
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Jan 19, 2021 12:00
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Evil Fluffy posted:
Pretty sure this died in Alpha at least once
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Jan 19, 2021 14:06
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Honestly a Mistborn video game just sounds frustrating. I just can't imagine any dev implementing Steel/Iron functionality in a way that's easy to use and powerful. Zinc/Brass could make for some cool dialog shenanigans though. More nuanced than just your usual "+Charisma makes persuasion easier" As much as I love the idea of a Mistborn game, I do think we're probably better off not having one 
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Jan 19, 2021 14:17
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It would be much easier to design a game in the Wax and Wayne setting. I don’t have enough fingers to play a full allomancer.
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Jan 19, 2021 15:31
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Yea I suppose if you only get to play as a Misting then that would simplify things a lot. But even still, I'm just imaging being in a room where a bunch of poo poo is metal and you're trying to target ~just the right object~ and it seems so clunky. Or they could go the immersion-breaking route of only making certain metal objects interactive.
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Jan 19, 2021 15:33
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I'm not sure mistborn abilities lend themselves to a game, despite being obviously video game inspired in terms of resource management. Flicking tiny bits of metal at people is effective but just doesn't sound super flashy to me. Clearly the best option is a 4x game where you play as a shard, defending your invested planet from various forces!
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Jan 19, 2021 15:59
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Shooting your gun and pushing the bullet to hyper speed sounds kind of fun to me. Feruchemy would be interesting to design around. You’d have to shorten the charge timeframe to make it a game-able thing, but it could work.
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Jan 19, 2021 16:11
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Cosmere Civilization sound fun.
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Jan 19, 2021 16:12
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Really, though, it should be a point and click adventure in the vein of Blade Runner.
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Jan 19, 2021 16:13
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TheMadMilkman posted:Shooting your gun and pushing the bullet to hyper speed sounds kind of fun to me. I could see some "hub-centric" game with distinct missions/levels and while in your hub you basically just say, "I'm gonna store X" and then for the next map X isn't available to you / you suffer some sort of penalty, but then on the mission after that you can spend your stored X for bonuses.
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Jan 19, 2021 16:26
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let Arkane make Dishonored: Mistborn Edition, imo
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Jan 19, 2021 16:39
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Someone made a Stormlight Archive mod for Crusader Kings 3: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2301341163 eke out posted:let Arkane make Dishonored: Mistborn Edition, imo Yeah, that's my dream licensed game.
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Jan 19, 2021 17:09
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2D pixel art Lift platformer, with lots of Wyndle banter.
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Jan 19, 2021 17:29
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