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 Doom Eternal is the 2020 sequel to the 2016 smash reboot of Doom, picking up eight months after the first game and with some fresh new twists. Gameplay is tougher and faster, greatly limiting your health and ammo so you're required to use your chainsaw more, but also with more fun and fluid platforming; the art direction is more colorful, stylized and comic booky, with the Glory Kills leaning more brutally slapsticky; and the story is far more involved and lore-heavy. How you feel about these changes will likely differ, but it's generally appreciated that Id tried instead of resting on their laurels for a sequel. The Story Earth has been consumed by Hell thanks to the help of the corrupted Union Aerospace Corporation. The Doom Slayer returns with a satellite fortress operated by his AI buddy VEGA, with the goal of finding and killing the Hell Priests to quell the invasion. Unlike previous games, things get a lot more complicated from there... The LP JigglyJacob takes lead once again with myself (ThornBrain) and TorpidTypist joining on co-commentary. Torpo is largely familiar with the game (up until it got too buggy for him to play anymore), while I haven't a clue. Because the game is more cutscene-heavy and story-intensive than before, each part will have two versions: one with commentary over the cutscenes and one without. Both links will be under the part banners this time, instead of the banners themselves linking to the videos. ----------------------  (No Commentary Over Cutscenes) (Commentary Over Cutscenes)  (No Commentary Over Cutscenes) (Commentary Over Cutscenes)  (No Commentary Over Cutscenes) (Commentary Over Cutscenes)  (No Commentary Over Cutscenes) (Commentary Over Cutscenes)  (No Commentary Over Cutscenes) (Commentary Over Cutscenes)  (No Commentary Over Cutscenes) (Commentary Over Cutscenes)  (No Commentary Over Cutscenes) (Commentary Over Cutscenes)  (No Commentary Over Cutscenes) (Commentary Over Cutscenes)  (No Commentary Over Cutscenes) (Commentary Over Cutscenes)  (No Commentary Over Cutscenes) (Commentary Over Cutscenes)  (No Commentary Over Cutscenes) (Commentary Over Cutscenes)  (No Commentary Over Cutscenes) (Commentary Over Cutscenes) ----------------------   (No Commentary Over Cutscenes) (Commentary Over Cutscenes)  (No Commentary Over Cutscenes) (Commentary Over Cutscenes)  (No Commentary Over Cutscenes) (Commentary Over Cutscenes) ----------------------   (No Commentary Over Cutscenes) (Commentary Over Cutscenes)  (No Commentary Over Cutscenes) (Commentary Over Cutscenes)  (No Commentary Over Cutscenes) (Commentary Over Cutscenes) ---------------------- 
ThornBrain fucked around with this message at 01:34 on May 26, 2021 |
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Jan 22, 2021 21:02
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Gotta say I agree with Torpid on every one of his criticisms so far. Compared to 2016, this game just feels like there are too many plates to spin at the same time and can get frustrating and exhausting as a result. It is still fun, but I was only able to play it in level-long doses.
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Jan 22, 2021 21:43
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I like the plot, but i'm a plot lover.
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Jan 22, 2021 21:50
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There is a lot of lore but it’s all in Codex entries that are really dry. The Codex has none of the wry humor of 2016. IIRC they never explain what happened with Doomguy between the ending of the last game and teleporting down from his personal orbital mancave to assassinate one of the architects of the invasion.
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Jan 22, 2021 22:50
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This plot is showing signs of severe Chris Metzen contamination. E: Alright, light Metzen contamination. (Not that Metzen is the only culprit in those cases.) SIGSEGV fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Jan 23, 2021 |
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Jan 23, 2021 00:42
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E: mmm not sure, is there an incredibly poorly written female character in the story? My only experience with Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal is through speedruns, and I like the one for Eternal better, so I'm curious to see what the game looks like when half of it is not skipped 
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Jan 23, 2021 00:55
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I stopped this probably just before finishing, but I might still eventually come back to finish it. There was an enemy that we'll get introduced to later that I really loved thematically, but just became a wall for me. Another of the divisive design choices IMO. It's too bad that for me this game is less than the sum of its parts because I like a lot of the parts. The movement mechanics (that we see a bit of in this video) add some interesting traversal and puzzle mechanics, though on the flip side, that means that level design can get really obtuse. A lot of the "new" enemy designs are really interesting and I dig the slightly more cartoony style, but this game seems to be swinging between grim-dark serious and goofy, Saturday morning wacky in tone. It's really like Doom 2016 was a huge hit, and the party was split between leaning into the more serious stuff (plot) and the sillier aspects (animation, colorful presentation, Doom guy's interactions) and they don't mesh 100% in their current state. I have other thoughts but I'm already bumping up against spoilers, so I'll save it for when we get there.
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Jan 23, 2021 06:56
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The UAC hologram worked better when I heard the first message and thought it was an old recording ironically playing over the disastrous new world argent energy created.
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Jan 23, 2021 10:20
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FoolyCharged posted:The UAC hologram worked better when I heard the first message and thought it was an old recording ironically playing over the disastrous new world argent energy created. Yes, the first was perfect then it just went down the rabbit hole too fast. 2016 just from that one level did the UAC spokespeople better in ratcheting up the creepy through the game.
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Jan 23, 2021 13:25
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Yeah, the stupidly epic-esque plot is a real clash compared to the story of the first game as well as the gameplay. It's a real shame, cause otherwise it seems fantastic.
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Jan 23, 2021 13:37
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I mean if they make a game that does the transition as a uh... midquel between the two?
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Jan 23, 2021 13:38
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The music for the Eternal DLC is made by Andrew Hulshult by the way. Considering his experience making music for Dusk and Amid Evil I'd say it was an excellent choice.
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Jan 23, 2021 13:40
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The contrast between this game and the last one is honestly astounding. I'd rate 2016 4.5 stars. There are a few little things I didn't like about it (particularly the hints at a larger plot that appear more toward the end) and visually it was sometimes hard to pick stuff out from the background or tell one enemy from another, but it was easily the best FPS I've played in years. And I hate everything about this game.
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Jan 23, 2021 15:44
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I will say, all the plot is just going in one ear and out the other, but I love that the setting design isn't "gunmetal gray sci-fi military installation/barren wasteland of rock and bones" and goes back to the original Doom's use of medieval cathedrals and wooden doors in its Hell aesthetic. It's some nice variety, and I'm excited to hear that future levels are going to show some color variety, too!
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Jan 23, 2021 16:26
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So there are definitely things I'm liking and disliking about this, having never played it, but there's one thing I want to talk about. They're using a trope that I am really sick of, though partly for personal reasons. I really dislike the "Heaven (or equivalent) is just as bad as Hell" thing. Like, it was clever when it was first done, I suppose, but it usually gets used for nihilistic/overly grimdark "everyone is awful" purposes, and I find that most works that do the nihilistic grimdark thing are very proud of themselves for being "mature" and "edgy." We'll see where it goes from here, but misanthropy and nihilism* are good ways to sour me on something. This also partly stems from my personal beliefs, but I suspect that's more than is really appropriate for this thread. I'm already talking about philosophy in a Doom game, that's silly enough. Looking forward to this, though! *I am aware of moral nihilism, and I don't have a problem with it, I'm referring to the more "everything is pointless and awful" kind.
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Jan 23, 2021 16:51
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I for one thoroughly enjoyed playing this game. I don't remember much that bothered me, and all in all I had a lot of fun with the gameplay., the story, ripping and tearing and so on.
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Jan 23, 2021 17:28
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I haven't played Doom Eternal or TLoZ:BoTW but the incredibly small ammo capacity seems like the low durability on weapons, where they have a specific play style in mind and they over tune the mechanics to force people to play that way.
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Jan 23, 2021 18:27
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azren posted:but it usually gets used for nihilistic/overly grimdark "everyone is awful" purposes, and I find that most works that do the nihilistic grimdark thing are very proud of themselves for being "mature" and "edgy." Counterpoint:  Yes, this is visibile ingame as well, and in all the cutscenes.  Yes, the wrist blade is replaced with a magic wand that has a rainbow sparkles fx when in use.  Yes, it is called THE DOOMICORN. 
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Jan 23, 2021 21:25
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That Italian Guy posted:Counterpoint: Yeah, I kinda went on a tangent, and also forgot about My Little Doomguy when I typed that bit.
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Jan 23, 2021 21:57
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azren posted:So there are definitely things I'm liking and disliking about this, having never played it, but there's one thing I want to talk about. They're using a trope that I am really sick of, though partly for personal reasons. I've generally found that whether that story beat sticks the landing with me or not depends very heavily on whether it stops at "the guy that looks like he's good is bad" or if it finishes the thought with "and the guy who looks like he's bad has good inside him" or not. If heaven is going to war you need Crowly and Aziraphale.
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Jan 23, 2021 22:08
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FoolyCharged posted:I've generally found that whether that story beat sticks the landing with me or not depends very heavily on whether it stops at "the guy that looks like he's good is bad" or if it finishes the thought with "and the guy who looks like he's bad has good inside him" or not. Yeah, it's boring if the two sides are self-righteous evil and evil for the sake of it.
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Jan 24, 2021 05:28
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FoolyCharged posted:I've generally found that whether that story beat sticks the landing with me or not depends very heavily on whether it stops at "the guy that looks like he's good is bad" or if it finishes the thought with "and the guy who looks like he's bad has good inside him" or not. It's also relevant that, in Good Omens, angels are often dicks and Satan is really evil, but in addition to some devils being fairly pleasant, God almighty is good, even if God's sense of humor isn't to everyone's liking.
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Jan 24, 2021 06:25
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I'm not sure how I feel about Eternal from this first update. I thought Doom 2016 was one of the most boring and overrated games I've ever seen, much as I enjoyed the LP, and right away Eternal fixes a number of the qualms I had with it, with far more color and varied environments. Of course, it then introduces a whole host of new problems with a story that smacks of the Destiny games in vibe (and that is not a compliment).
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Jan 24, 2021 22:09
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One of the great things about 2016 was that it didn't try to be a SERIOUS EPIC SAGA and was just about the Doomguy rampaging through hell shooting demons in the nads. Sure, there was a ton of codex lore about crap you didn't care about, but right away Doomguy throwing the tablet of exposition and grabbing the shotgun set the tone for the game. Here the game opens about blabbing with hell priests and...showing the Doomguy's face, when the classic Doom developers were clear that you didn't see Doomguy's face because YOU were Doomguy.
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Jan 25, 2021 00:14
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:One of the great things about 2016 was that it didn't try to be a SERIOUS EPIC SAGA and was just about the Doomguy rampaging through hell shooting demons in the nads. Sure, there was a ton of codex lore about crap you didn't care about, but right away Doomguy throwing the tablet of exposition and grabbing the shotgun set the tone for the game.     
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Jan 25, 2021 01:36
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https://web.archive.org/web/20081024185346/http://rome.ro/smf/index.php/topic,1521.msg31827.html#msg31827 Quote from Romero there, you are the Doomguy.
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Jan 25, 2021 02:39
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:https://web.archive.org/web/20081024185346/http://rome.ro/smf/index.php/topic,1521.msg31827.html#msg31827 No mention of face there.
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Jan 25, 2021 02:46
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Hell yeah, Doom Eternal, my co-game of 2020 along with Hades. I enjoy pretty much every bit of this game even more than Doom 2016, which the more I played got slower and more boring and dominant strategy-laden, problems Eternal fixes in spades. With that being said, I found that this game is more like a first person character action game than an FPS, which requires a certain mindset to really get behind compared to 2016.
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Jan 25, 2021 03:00
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:https://web.archive.org/web/20081024185346/http://rome.ro/smf/index.php/topic,1521.msg31827.html#msg31827 Maybe it's like Lone Wolf? You are... Doom Guy!
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Jan 25, 2021 04:42
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Well this is certainly a lot more of VIDEO GAME rear end video game than the 2016 game was, what with the colorful Borderlands explosion of ammo when you use the chainsaw and the chainsaw and heavy cannon just floating in the air for you to grab now.
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Jan 25, 2021 09:13
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All the overdesigned gameplay in Eternal does is make me want to play ultrakill tbh
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Jan 25, 2021 16:17
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I think the one thing people on both sides of the "I can kill That One Enemy in 4.3 seconds and I agree with the helpless newbies it could use more polish" and "If you don't think this game is perfect guess you hate Devil May Cry too huh?" fence. Is that the game doesn't really approach it's own claims until you have the rocket launcher, which is also around the same time the rest of your toolkit completes. For me, that is as much because of the amazing in hindsight realization that you can fire the rocket launcher more often than the super shotgun without fishing for an ammo reload Sure it is exactly ONE more time, but it helps the murder efficiency mindspace. It isn't wasteful to kill a zombie or imp with a rocket when you have (technically) more rockets than SSG ammo  RareAcumen posted:Well this is certainly a lot more of VIDEO GAME rear end video game than the 2016 game was, what with the colorful Borderlands explosion of ammo when you use the chainsaw and the chainsaw and heavy cannon just floating in the air for you to grab now.
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Jan 26, 2021 03:01
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(No Commentary Over Cutscenes) (Commentary Over Cutscenes) I'm not used to this color in a modern Doom game
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Jan 29, 2021 21:05
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I tried to treat the microwave beam as an alternate Glory Kill, and that sort of made it worthwhile. Definitely agree with the sentiment that the microwave beam is something you want to like, but can't since the implementation isn't quite there.
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Jan 29, 2021 22:58
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I'm glad that you guys also agree on skeletons being better antagonists than zombies.
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Jan 30, 2021 05:03
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Watching you play this reminds me of how much I loved the early game. Though I will admit to losing an embarrassing number of lives to the platforming puzzle at the end of this level. That last monkey bar swing to get to the island I would either miss the dash refill, or whiff the bar itself entirely. I think I recall people referring to that as Super Mario Bullshit, and I have to say with the spinning chains of fire and falling platforms over lava, it's not entirely unfair. I loved the slayer gates, as playing them is the textbook definition of Frantic. Constantly running to and from enemies, trying to dash around corners to get to some form of cover to avoid some fireball or another, ducking through teleporters to get across the map, almost always being just on the verge of dying before being able to chainsaw some revenant or zombie and start the pattern over again. It's maybe the most concentrated fun in the game.
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Jan 30, 2021 05:41
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OK, all this poo poo about King Novik, sentinels, why 'you can't kill these 'Priests' because of some nebulous ancient laws and decorum'. This is what gets the story to be as boring as poo poo. They could have even had it, if only Doomguy you know, didn't give a gently caress about any of it, but no - he has to kneel and show fealty to whoever this twit is. BECAUSE HOW ELSE WOULD YOU KNOW IT'S EPIC?
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Jan 30, 2021 08:51
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Samovar posted:OK, all this poo poo about King Novik, sentinels, why 'you can't kill these 'Priests' because of some nebulous ancient laws and decorum'. I honestly didn't mind it. Doomguy at a minimum hung out with these guys for some time, fought with them against the demons. Doomguy respects demon-punching
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Jan 30, 2021 10:46
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AtomikKrab posted:I honestly didn't mind it. Doomguy at a minimum hung out with these guys for some time, fought with them against the demons. Doomguy respects demon-punching It all seems pretty consistent though still unnecessary. Doomguy's here to kill demons, if you're telling him to stop killing demons, demon adjacent creatures, demon enablers/supporters/corrupted or summoned then you're loving dead kiddo. But since they seemed to have worked together he's just done with that guy. There're demons to kill, if he decides to get in the way of Doomguy doing so then he'll consider him a demon as well and will be put to the armblade like all the imps and gargoyles.
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Jan 30, 2021 12:02
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Samovar posted:OK, all this poo poo about King Novik, sentinels, why 'you can't kill these 'Priests' because of some nebulous ancient laws and decorum'.
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Jan 30, 2021 14:19
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