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There is no end goal, aside from finishing the thread(s) when I finish my rewatch when I catch up to when I started watching again in the mid 2010's or when I decide that the quality of the wrestling has declined too much to continue watching. (Or, more ideally, ending it when bigotry becomes non-existent or miniscule in the groups that I am rewatching.) In the post kindly linked, I said: collocation posted:It's more about finding it culturally interesting (and important that things were this way so recently) than about pitchforks, even if some people do figuratively still deserve them. We all know how wrestling used to be (and how it sometimes still is), but seeing the stuff listed had a different effect on me, personally. To expand upon that, I think that it's interesting and worthwhile to have a record of these years viewed solely through the filter of what bigotry transpired. collocation fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Jan 21, 2021 |
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Jan 21, 2021 23:10
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Vagabundo posted:Did you know that you could go to the start of the thread?
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Jan 21, 2021 23:33
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To me, the end result is tips on how to not be lovely, which as a white male can be p hard sometimes. I think the outburst is kind of understandable if collocation really had been bought some "hilarious" smarmy avatars as "revenge" but I don't know and in truth don't care really either lol.
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Jan 22, 2021 08:13
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Smackdown 4/29/04: "Rap music contributes to the hate and bloodlust of society as much as anything" -Kurt Angle --- "Look at this. What do you think Chavo Srs going to do?" - Cole "He's doing a dance. <Unintelligible> The Mexican Hat Dance. He was spinning around dancing, doing like the moonwalk or something. I don't know what that guy's doin'" - Taz --- "Sick" - Doug Basham to Rico who has been doing Rico and Haas things like throwing out Haas' pants so that he has to wear Rico style trunks and arranging moves to put Haas in a doggy style position over a Basham --- "Eddie Guerrero's people <...> came into America in the dead of night, not to embrace the American dream, but rather to take advantage of our country. This cancer has spread throughout our heartland. Farmers once the background of our economy have now allowed themselves to become so incompetent, so lazy they can't even feed their own family, they have to rely on a government subsidy, a handout, to make a living. Treehuggers in California would rather save the spotted owl than fix our energy grid. Schools in the south now teach Spanish. Spanish. To our kids. Because these illegals don't even care enough to speak our language. People all across America want to impose some socialist tax structure where people like me, people who have created our own wealth, pay for these leeches who don't care enough to work hard and smart to make their own money. These bottom feeders of our society support people like Eddie Guerrero. This is our chance to take America back. Support me, John Bradshaw, in my bid to become WWE champion, to take pride once again in American capitalism, and to preserve our American way of life." - JBL
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Jan 24, 2021 04:05
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CZW Face Off 4/30/04: "He down with his ebonics" - John House on Robbie Marino "Who just called me a <f word ending in ot for homosexual>?" - Robbie Marino who then runs at crowd --- "Look at the BLKOUT moochin food from the fans" - John House "They're panhandling out there, John. They're panhandling." - Eric G. "What you tryin? to say? They out there washin people's windows on the corner?" - John House "I'm just saying, they're panhandling" - Eric G. "You makin those racial slurs again, Garguilo?" - John House "I'm not saying anything racial." - Eric G. --- "Eric, I'll call a spade a spade <...>" - John House "Listen there's no need to bring race into this John" - Eric G. "Had nothin' to do about race." - John House
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Jan 24, 2021 07:12
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Hedgehog Pie posted:To me, the end result is tips on how to not be lovely, which as a white male can be p hard sometimes. I got the latter part of "You don't need to be talking trash. He plays the skin flute so much he has a milk mustache" - John Cena after posting it. Then I made the mistake of asking for a reversion, as someone suggested, and got something along the lines of an MLP making GBS threads the American flag or something. It is what it is.
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Jan 24, 2021 07:39
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Whoever said that JBL was the template for Trump's presidential run was very on point
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Jan 24, 2021 08:24
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CZW Apocalypse 5/01/04: "Weighing in at <unintelligible> t cells, Rick Feinberg" - CZW Announcer <tons of banter from John and Eric as if he is Rob Feinstein> "I always knew there was something wrong with him." - John House "Oh what gave it away the pink panties or the 20 minutes in the Ryder Truck?" - Eric G --- "I heard that he used to steal his Grandmother's social security checks, and his mother's welfare checks, cash 'em in, and pay for wrestling school" - Eric G. on Ruckus <...> "Why would you say that? Because he's part of the BLKOUT. You stereotyping?" - John House "Wait a minute. Don't put words in my mouth." - Eric G. <...> "Look at him all a happy out there like he just robbed a Korean grocery store" - Eric G.
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Jan 24, 2021 15:51
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05/03/04 Raw: "Is it true that when you turn an oriental upside down, does he become disorientated?" - Lawler on Tajiri --- "I think Tajiri's great great grandfather was a Kamikaze pilot" - Lawler --- "Hey Eugene. Or should I say <gibberish stutter and then elongated imitation of a challenged person saying> Eugene" - Rob Conway
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Jan 24, 2021 17:20
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Seth Rollins posted:i'm also curious as to what the end goal is It's a cataloging of random bigotry encountered in 2004 wrestling programs.
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Jan 24, 2021 20:14
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i enjoy it just to see what passes as random bigotry. seeing like "Sick" in the same post as an unhinged screed on immigration. plus stuff like going out of your way to not say retardo but still saying midget (adam cole much?). just interesting to see what qualifies or not. this forum rules
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Jan 24, 2021 21:06
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I would actually prefer not to censor any of the terms beyond a couple of stars in the middle of words, since that's what happened and it should be clear, but I think that people here would have a problem with that. It would sure be quite a bit easier than typing a bunch of extra junk (or pasting it) every time. Some instances are banal and short. Some instances are extensive and banal. I'm not attempting to only highlight the worst instances as that would be a less complete and false narrative. I find the juxtaposition of extensive storyline bigotry with bog standard minor bigotry to be more representative, both of wrestling and society now and then. If people think that <word for short people beginning with m> is equivalent to <word for mentally challenged people ending in ED and/or EDO> in offensiveness, and/or literally any person in good faith wants me to censor it, I will be glad to do so, in any logical fashion. In fact, at minimum, I will use *s going forward, unless someone who actually cares thinks that is not extensive enough. <Apparently, I will use descriptions for the words in brackets since partial *s are an issue> collocation fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Jan 24, 2021 |
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Jan 24, 2021 22:23
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HOTLANTA MAN posted:What is the end goal of this thread documenting every spoken line of dialogue from wwf programming 1996 - 2015
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Jan 24, 2021 22:25
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i think it would be for the best if you used nothing but asterisks to communicate bad words. if enough real letters are visible to understand the word being communicated, then i don't really think that's any different from just saying the word outright.
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Jan 24, 2021 23:01
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Seth Rollins posted:i think it would be for the best if you used nothing but asterisks to communicate bad words. if enough real letters are visible to understand the word being communicated, then i don't really think that's any different from just saying the word outright. Thanks for the suggestion, but I think that it would be nonsensical to not have people be able to understand what is said in a thread depicting what was said. So, if asterisks over most letters isn't acceptable, I will continue with a description of the word, as I did previously.
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Jan 24, 2021 23:07
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yea ok posted:i enjoy it just to see what passes as random bigotry. seeing like "Sick" in the same post as an unhinged screed on immigration. plus stuff like going out of your way to not say retardo but still saying midget (adam cole much?). just interesting to see what qualifies or not. this forum rules Is it often difficult for you to tell what is and isn't bigotry?
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Jan 24, 2021 23:48
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teh
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Jan 24, 2021 23:54
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The longer the thread goes on the more suspicious I become that it's a long excuse to just slowly post every bad word you know. Just an endless list of things you heard with no real anything to it.
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Jan 25, 2021 00:04
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I said bigotry and bigotry adjacent in the op of the original thread. If there was anything that anyone thinks wasn't bigotry or even bigotry adjacent, that would be worthy of discussion. I guess that I will see where what is going on right now goes.
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Jan 25, 2021 00:15
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Gumball Gumption posted:The longer the thread goes on the more suspicious I become that it's a long excuse to just slowly post every bad word you know. Just an endless list of things you heard with no real anything to it. I dunno, I think it's interesting how casual this poo poo relative to today but your mileage may vary.
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Jan 25, 2021 00:46
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forkboy84 posted:I dunno, I think it's interesting how casual this poo poo relative to today but your mileage may vary. Yeah but the thread barely touches on that. It barely touches on anything except being a list of words from things collocation watched.
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Jan 25, 2021 00:55
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It's sequential and matches the title, and the point isn't to editorialize. I am documenting something that I loved filled with people who hated me. I will talk to people when they respond and give my take, but my words are not the point, the point is what was said, and that's why I get verbatim quotes. Some bigotry is incredibly minor. Some is elaborate and angle driven. It is what happened. That's all.
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Jan 25, 2021 01:01
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I find it an interesting time capsule on what was deemed acceptable then, which highlights the shifts in standards and values during the intervening 15 or so years.
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Jan 25, 2021 01:36
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Sure but we could take literally any tv show or genre that's existed for a long time and do the same thing. Open bigotry was way more acceptable and that can be seen in most cultural artifacts. We could easily do the same thing with sitcoms, friends for example, and it would look really similar. I guess I just don't get it. It's not a bad thread but without editorializing and context of what was going on in society and in the industry at the time it still just feels like it's a very long list of things collocation saw and found offensive. That's a nice blog post or journal entry I guess but I miss the point of it as a thread on a forum. A thread feels like a bad vehicle for what it is it seems collocation wants.
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Jan 25, 2021 01:47
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collocation posted:It's sequential and matches the title, and the point isn't to editorialize. I am documenting something that I loved filled with people who hated me. I will talk to people when they respond and give my take, but my words are not the point, the point is what was said, and that's why I get verbatim quotes. Some bigotry is incredibly minor. Some is elaborate and angle driven. It is what happened. That's all. This is such a weird choice to me, and you acknowledging that you aren't going to "editorialize" makes it make even less sense to me. This is a web forum, threads are designed to collate discussion and keep topics together to be discussed. You are putting this together like a weird blog that you occasionally have people actually generate discussion in. It's just a weird use of the format that is super inefficient for what you seem to be using it for. I don't get why you don't feel the need to provide no context for how you feel about these things, or especially why you are singling them out, because this is neither an academic resource nor some database of record for you to maintain editorial neutrality or a distant tone. This is a general purpose web forum's wrestling sub forum. Like nothing about this has been wrong or bad but it feels like you missed an obvious route (a blog for this stuff as mentioned would fit the formatting of "post about experience -> potential for discussion about specific incident" better than page after page of posts with occasional flare ups).
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Jan 25, 2021 01:57
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Gumball Gumption posted:Sure but we could take literally any tv show or genre that's existed for a long time and do the same thing. Open bigotry was way more acceptable and that can be seen in most cultural artifacts. We could easily do the same thing with sitcoms, friends for example, and it would look really similar. People do more complex forms of documentary for more respected forms of media. Wrestling lacks that respect and is often under-documented. It is probably not important enough to people outside of wrestling fandom to be posted or published elsewhere, in a form anywhere near this methodical or completist. However, because wrestling also was quite a bit more behind the times than many other pieces of media and art, it offers more recent incredibly blatant examples than people would find in most other forms of mainstream media. In addition this content is still being marketed, in the case of WWE, to children. It will possibly effect people's viewpoints who weren't even alive when it transpired. It remains relevant, even within a little bubble. If the thread is against the rules, I will gladly quit posting to it, if told by a mod. If it is not, the best solution would be for people who find it worthless, unworthy, or misguided to ignore it. collocation fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Jan 25, 2021 |
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Jan 25, 2021 02:01
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I think you're missing my point but hey, keep on doing what you want to do.
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Jan 25, 2021 02:05
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Gumball Gumption posted:I think you're missing my point but hey, keep on doing what you want to do. Perhaps I am, but I appreciate that you took the time. Be well.
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Jan 25, 2021 02:07
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All I can say is that that JBL promo, if transcribed correctly, is definitely not just of its time. It's horrific, and absolutely an example of mainstream entertainment normalising fascism, which leads us to the golden era of 2021. I'm glad JBL's run stopped me watching WWE for many years but at the same time my last probation was for casual racism so learning as an ongoing process, you know?
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Jan 25, 2021 08:39
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Hedgehog Pie posted:All I can say is that that JBL promo, if transcribed correctly, is definitely not just of its time. It's horrific, and absolutely an example of mainstream entertainment normalising fascism, which leads us to the golden era of 2021. I'm glad JBL's run stopped me watching WWE for many years but at the same time my last probation was for casual racism so learning as an ongoing process, you know? It's also kind of crazy that JBL of all people wrote a pretty decent article on why the confederate flag should be put away forever. I hate JBL with every fiber of my being but in that moment he's the personification of, "the worst person you know made a great point"
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Jan 25, 2021 09:54
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TheKingslayer posted:It's also kind of crazy that JBL of all people wrote a pretty decent article on why the confederate flag should be put away forever. I hate JBL with every fiber of my being but in that moment he's the personification of, "the worst person you know made a great point" My defining memory of JBL will always be Xavier Woods sonning him while doing guest commentary without really trying. Paraphrasing: JBL: I heard you have an ivy league education smart guy, what kind of of degree you got? Xavier: Well actually I have a background in helping developmentally disabled kids with speech patterns JBL (who clearly didn't expect something so noble as an answer and has NOWHERE to go with this): Oh, uh okay. Thats pretty impressive.
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Jan 25, 2021 12:13
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El Gallinero Gros posted:My defining memory of JBL will always be Xavier Woods sonning him while doing guest commentary without really trying. Paraphrasing: Holy hell, I hadn't heard that before but that's fantastic.
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Jan 25, 2021 12:16
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The thread's fine and OP can do with it as they want. I've enjoyed reading it. chrissake, SAS has a goldmined thread of a dude making like a 4 page thread with nothing but his own posts of results from some horse races that he was betting on. There doesn't need to be some ultra deep and detailed purpose to threads on a comedy message board.
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Jan 25, 2021 14:36
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To me this is just a race focused NY64 without voting and it covers all promotions There's something to be said for shining a light on how awful one's hobbies can be otherwise you end up like those Star Wars fans who harassed that TV host for acknowledging systemic racism while hosting a talk show about Star Wars https://news.avclub.com/disney-voic...NFNGZkEtKU7MBDy El Gallinero Gros fucked around with this message at 15:09 on Jan 25, 2021 |
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Jan 25, 2021 15:06
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there is a subforum where each thread is for one person's collection of their opinions, data, lists, etc.. it's called post my favorite. not saying "go to there" but it might not be a bad idea to collect everything from these threads in a thread there after the fact for cleanliness and ease of discovery. however i don't know if that would then jeopardize the threads being allowed here so it would be best to make sure before doing any sort of compilation over there. or perhaps it's not a desirable thing to do at all. i wouldn't know
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Jan 25, 2021 15:30
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funny thread (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 25, 2021 17:50
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NOT funny thread.
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Jan 26, 2021 01:42
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I wonder what havoc moving to Peacock is going to wreak on the archive. Don't they remove episodes with black face worn in which the joke is that black face is stupid from mainstream services like that? I personally like having a complete archive, warts and all, but any of the stuff that is moved over is going to be in a much more visible place. NWA TNA PPV 93 5/05/04: Swinger and Gilberti paint Pat Kenney (Simon Diamond) green after he announces that he is Irish. Smackdown 5/06/04: "You get your Mexican kids out of here" - JBL says before he was supposed to give Eddie's mom a worked heart attack, which apparently ended up with her legitimately having a feinting fit --- "There's something weird about two guys that are always switchin' positions. He's uh keepin it in the family, messin around with his brother. I'll beat you really quick tonight so you can go back to beatin' each other. " - John Cena to Bashams --- "My people came to this country in a boat, not an inner tube." - JBL
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Jan 26, 2021 18:55
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collocation posted:I wonder what havoc moving to Peacock is going to wreak on the archive. Don't they remove episodes with black face worn in which the joke is that black face is stupid from mainstream services like that? I personally like having a complete archive, warts and all, but any of the stuff that is moved over is going to be in a much more visible place. See this is what's bizarre to me. The quotes in each collection just swing wildly around in severity. Who the gently caress cares about that first thing? Racism against irish in america hasn't been real since like the 40s. But you've presented it with equal weight to a guy matter of factly equating being gay with incest, accusing someone of being both with equal weight, and then the sort of of-its-time (and also probably that "time" didn't end) racism against central or south americans. It's so weird and seems to trivialize the worst, while seeming hysterical about the innocuous.
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Jan 26, 2021 20:32
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Phobeste posted:See this is what's bizarre to me. The quotes in each collection just swing wildly around in severity. Who the gently caress cares about that first thing? Racism against irish in america hasn't been real since like the 40s. But you've presented it with equal weight to a guy matter of factly equating being gay with incest, accusing someone of being both with equal weight, and then the sort of of-its-time (and also probably that "time" didn't end) racism against central or south americans. It's so weird and seems to trivialize the worst, while seeming hysterical about the innocuous. That is how bigotry works. Sometimes it's massive. Sometimes it's casual. Sometimes it is light as a feather. It's simply presented in the order in which it happened. WWE and TNA were also international products, and bigotry against Irish people is different in different places. I think that any intelligent reader can decide how severe they think something was. I'm not going to skip things or give them star ratings. I actually considered skipping the Irish one because I knew that it would cause some to criticize me at a point where that seemed to be a trend, but that seemed cowardly, so I changed my mind. And, as my friend said, full on painting a dude is kind of extreme as an action, even if it's not in service of one of the types of bigotry that are super heavy in the US. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Irish_sentiment#21st_century collocation fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Jan 26, 2021 |
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Jan 26, 2021 20:57
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