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Stux posted:
This doesn't make a lick of sense and is semi buried in anti-intellectualism. Being able to use a single term to describe a feeling is a good thing. Knowing what that feeling is and how to apply it to video games is even better and makes for an improved game experience.
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Feb 1, 2021 13:31
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| # ? Apr 27, 2024 02:07 |
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Stux posted:in contrast if you void out by letting sam get caught and dragged under in a BT area it creates a gigantic impassable crater that spawns BTs that instantly kill you, which remains there permanently lol This actually happened to me once (created a crater in the starting zone in the forest leading to the wind farm) and while it took a while the crater (complete with dome and giant hand print) eventually "healed". It even happened sort-of in stages, like the forest gradually grew back.
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Feb 1, 2021 13:33
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I dont care about ludonarrative dissonance one way or another I just think death Stranding is not a good example of it. I mean sam has a very important mission to complete so hes given all the tools he might need. It is conceivable that he may need to kill someone in order to complete his mission however unlikely and undesirable it may be. As the player you might choose to roleplay sam as someone who would carry a lethal weapon just in case and never intend on using it. Or you might roleplay sam as someone who wouldn't carry a lethal weapon at all because the consequences of using it are too great. It's not dissonant at all
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Feb 1, 2021 13:33
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Feb 1, 2021 13:35
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Aaaaaaaaaaah why am I seeing DS spoilers in the Xbox thread of all places  Also why is MGS getting another remake like at least do MGS3 instead 
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Feb 1, 2021 13:40
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Spec Ops did whatever TLOU2 tried to do .
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Feb 1, 2021 14:11
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Stux dying on some hill is making the thread unreadable again. Weird!
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Feb 1, 2021 14:48
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Akuma posted:Lmao that you think you're lecturing everybody about what it means yet you've got it completely wrong except it doesnt, because even the consequences are completely toned down in comparison to what already happens in the other player triggered void outs, most likely because letting the player create impassable craters arbitrarily would make it possible to impede gameplay, where as the sam void outs are all predetermined zones. so to allow for the gameplay to be functional, the consequences have to be drastically cut back. its even possible to kill a mule, have die hardman literally say to you "you cannot ignore that body" and then have corpse disposal pick it up for you while youre off the other side of the game world, ignoring it. and it isnt actually enough for it to say "we're going to give this to you even though its wrong" when its absolutely incomprehensible why, narratively, you would be given any lethal weapons let alone the number offered to you. and i absolutely disagree its a projection, what in sams entire arc would make you think he would risk voidouts? beyond this you can actually create an uncharted level problem where you, the player, murder your way across the landscape taking countless lives, most of them of mules who are literally just addicts trying to steal some packages, and yet everyone keeps telling you sam is going to bring everyone together, make us whole, the npcs still talk about mules as annoying but ultimately victims of their illness as you carve your way through them with rockets and grenades, with the only impediment being loading up the corpses 15 at a time into your truck and dumping them at literally any outpost because you dont actually even have to incinerate them. there are no consequences for playing sam as a murder machine and no one ever cares. quote:Which is the entire point people were trying to make to you with Kojima vs ND; his games go to pains to ensure they're NOT ludonarratively dissonant but still let you do video game things. kojima is so good because he plays with it pretty freely. and nd clearly swing for both extremes, uc literally revels in its dissonance and doesnt care, while i dont see how you could describe tlou2 as anything but in complete lockstep with itself, to the point that it created a completely offputting game. bushisms.txt posted:This doesn't make a lick of sense and is semi buried in anti-intellectualism. Being able to use a single term to describe a feeling is a good thing. Knowing what that feeling is and how to apply it to video games is even better and makes for an improved game experience. yeah classic anti intellectualism to tell people to present and discuss things rather than throw out a term as a substitute with no contextualisation or explanation of where or how it applies lol
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Feb 1, 2021 15:01
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Please don't engage Stux, just tell them that they are very smart and special and they figured it out. Good job Stux! You are correct!
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Feb 1, 2021 15:13
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https://twitter.com/wario64/status/1356242595521863680?s=21 Previous-gen and current-gen SKUs are separate purchases, with the Series X|S and PlayStation 5 being $10 more. There doesn't seem to be an upgrade system in place.
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Feb 1, 2021 15:13
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I think the argument semantics in this thread ultimately boil down to whether you think ludonarrative dissonance is only present when the game doesn't give you a choice but to have the weird disconnect. But disconnects can be important to making things interesting, and this goes beyond games too. Indiana Jones movies (at least the first three) are great movies and a blast to watch, yet feature a tenured professor pretty much committing war crimes by destroying historical artifacts in a way that makes no sense for someone in his profession. The very first scenes with Indy show him going after a tiny gold statue. He sets off tons of traps that amazingly still work despite centuries of no maintenance and would to an archaeologist have exponentionally more value than a statue small enough to hold in one hand. But why watch a proper archaeology team carefully and systematically work on the site when you can have a sick boulder trap go off instead. Zerot posted:https://twitter.com/wario64/status/1356242595521863680?s=21 We'll probably know more soon, but MLB The Show really knocked it out of the park (pun intended) with the first PS4 game being a MASSIVE upgrade from the PS3 version (e.g. the crowds being so dense with detailed faces that they showed off a game dev who had self-inserted spend some time trying to find himself in the crowd), to the point where the PS3 and PS4 versions were pretty much separate games anyway. I could see them having this thought process to separate the two versions. Or making Smart Delivery a Playstation-exclusive.
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Feb 1, 2021 15:16
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Zerot posted:https://twitter.com/wario64/status/1356242595521863680?s=21 Can you buy the Series version and then play it on a One?
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Feb 1, 2021 15:30
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Twerk from Home posted:Can you buy the Series version and then play it on a One? It's not looking that way, it seems to be taking the NBA 2K21 approach, although without the Mamba Forever edition that would be out of place to have for a baseball game honoring a basketball player.
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Feb 1, 2021 15:41
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Twerk from Home posted:Can you buy the Series version and then play it on a One? No. You can play the Xbox One version on a Series console, however. univbee posted:Or making Smart Delivery a Playstation-exclusive. It looks like the PlayStation 4 and 5 versions are separate, too.
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Feb 1, 2021 15:43
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univbee posted:Or making Smart Delivery a Playstation-exclusive.
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Feb 1, 2021 16:03
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Akuma posted:Nothing about the way the PS5 handles PS4+PS5 versions of games could be described as "smart." they saved money not making it work so checkmate dev, back in your code hole
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Feb 1, 2021 16:12
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i tried mlb the show when they gave it to me on plus and oops its a modern sports game with a poo poo load of weird minigames to do poo poo like throw a pitch or hit a ball so i went back to the yakuza batting cages. YOSH!
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Feb 1, 2021 16:13
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you see, if we analyze the cognitive hyperinflation and use that as an analogue for semantic blockage, we can really peel back the layers of the pseudoeffective, cerebral dichotomy
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Feb 1, 2021 16:36
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Real hurthling! posted:i tried mlb the show when they gave it to me on plus and oops its a modern sports game with a poo poo load of weird minigames to do poo poo like throw a pitch or hit a ball so i went back to the yakuza batting cages. YOSH! my favorite is the one where you literally just play a game of baseball themed Risk. you don't even have to play a single inning you can get like 90% of the rewards anyway
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Feb 1, 2021 16:58
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Zerot posted:No. You can play the Xbox One version on a Series console, however. I am experiencing ludomercantile dissonance with this purchasing situation.
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Feb 1, 2021 17:16
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I am imagining the ludovico technique, but instead of disturbing images and sensory irritants it's just stux post after stux post
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Feb 1, 2021 17:25
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i dont know how much longer this thread will require me to spoon feed basic logic as you collectively wither under the twin yokes of asininity and irrationality that weigh so heavy upon your shoulders but i will persist until the lesson is learned
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Feb 1, 2021 17:31
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Akuma posted:Nothing about the way the PS5 handles PS4+PS5 versions of games could be described as "smart." New "smart rear end" delivery system. "No free upgrades. gently caress you."
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Feb 1, 2021 17:37
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Stux posted:i dont know how much longer this thread will require me to spoon feed basic logic as you collectively wither under the twin yokes of asininity and irrationality that weigh so heavy upon your shoulders but i will persist until the lesson is learned Oh good
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Feb 1, 2021 17:41
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Stux posted:i dont know how much longer this thread will require me to spoon feed basic logic as you collectively wither under the twin yokes of asininity and irrationality that weigh so heavy upon your shoulders but i will persist until the lesson is learned 
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Feb 1, 2021 17:51
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I don't care what you call it-- games that make a story beat of 'actually killing is bad' after I've already killed 2000 people (and probably received 5 gamerscore for it) will never stop being stupid. Death Stranding doesn't apply for this, since it would be dumb to use real guns. The existence of guns highlights how dumb they are to use. The game allows you to be dumb. At the same, I do not need an in-universe explanation of why the Resident Evil characters can survive being bit by a zombie or a scientific expose on what a healing spell actually does. FPS heroes should continue to reload partial clips at inhuman speeds. Those are mechanics that make the game playable.
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Feb 1, 2021 17:54
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exactly
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Feb 1, 2021 18:00
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There should be a Hitman game where it takes Agent 47 several minutes to put on a disguise and where he is constantly fidgeting with the clothes because they aren’t his size.
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Feb 1, 2021 18:02
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Stux posted:i dont know how much longer this thread will require me gonna stop you right there
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Feb 1, 2021 18:07
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this forum will never learn one lesson about ignoring posts you dont want to become the focus of discussion for 6 pages. people HAVE to get their whining off i thought ludonarrative dissonance complaints died after whatever game i played like 6-8 years ago skewered it with an achievement. what game was that. like a sorta puzzley game where youre like a detective and its 2d and you move between high rises. if the original dissonance discourse didnt turn you off the concept in the first place
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Feb 1, 2021 18:19
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Super No Vacancy posted:this forum will never learn one lesson about ignoring posts you dont want to become the focus of discussion for 6 pages. people HAVE to get their whining off Gunpoint Acknowledged Ludonarrative Dissonance: “Notice the story doesn’t necessarily gel with the mechanics. Become qualified games journalist."
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Feb 1, 2021 18:26
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drat asked and answered
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Feb 1, 2021 18:29
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People love talking about ~ludonarrative dissonance~ because there's big fun terminology to say, but when it comes to games, it's not worth much discussion. Every game has it, some more than others, and it's never really The Problem with a game. It's not a first-order problem, it's a knock-on effect. It's one of those things where if you're noticing it, it means whatever the game is trying to do didn't quite work. GTA4's story isn't an eyeroll because of ludonarrative dissonance, it's an eyeroll because it's not very good, and the fact that it's not very good leads one to notice and be bothered by the fact that Nico ran over 3 civilians on his way to this cutscene about how the war traumatized him. Someone mentioned Hitman's quick costume changes earlier on - if Hitman didn't do the thing it does so well, there probably would be people like "no way he puts that mascot outfit on in 2 seconds ducking behind a car and it fits perfectly." Like, that would be something that comes up over and over people would think made the game worse. But Hitman is just really loving good, so little fiats that facilitate the really well-done gameplay dynamic just don't get complaints.
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Feb 1, 2021 18:46
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Dissonance isn't about tactical realism. Can we please move on? Anyone tried the new sea of thieves season update?
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Feb 1, 2021 19:18
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bushisms.txt posted:Dissonance isn't about tactical realism. I know, I only brought it up because someone mentioned it earlier. They're the same kind of complaint, though - things that only come up when a game is deficient in other, more inherent ways.
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Feb 1, 2021 19:21
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TheScott2K posted:I know, I only brought it up because someone mentioned it earlier. They're the same kind of complaint, though - things that only come up when a game is deficient in other, more inherent ways. No they're not. Can we please move on?
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Feb 1, 2021 19:24
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Yeah they are.
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Feb 1, 2021 19:25
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Ludonarrative dissonance is the dark souls of games journalism
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Feb 1, 2021 19:28
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This is the internet and there's a ton of resources at y'all's disposal. There's also been a number of posters explaining things. But y'all keep on with this "game journos and their readers are dumb so they sling out big words" narrative as if it applies in all instances. But y'all have repeatedly shown with your examples, you don't know what the words mean or how they're being applied in "complaints." So you come off as oafish defenders of flawed games.
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Feb 1, 2021 19:32
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Thanks for sparing us the "can we move on" thing after this round of assertion
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Feb 1, 2021 19:35
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