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MRC48B posted:loving honeywell. they're running the stats in 4pipe mode, but using two + eheat at the fancoil. It works!! I turned the breaker on and didn't hear any explosions, or notice fire, so I turned the unit on. Also noticed that the temp in my place was 69* F (NICE!!!) It started blowing heat, I changed the fan between high, medium, low and auto. Each change on the stat came with a change in fan speed, and when I changed it from hot to cool to auto and off, a bunch of various electricity and HVAC brick-a-brack*** happened. E: Nevermind about this part: Since the building seems to be responsible for the change from heat to cooling, is it safe to assume that I should leave it on auto? Also that when I turned it on the fan came on like it was on high, before settling down. That is normal correct? Like it takes a bit more juice to start the fan moving from a dead stop right? Now I have to set this thing up..... Based on what you have seen thus far, aside from maybe changing the temp from freedom units to commie units, should I just keep the defaults? I know you might not be able to say too much to that since you don't have the system right in front of you but what would you recommend? Is leaving it on Default one of those "well it won't be the most efficient, but you at least won't set your pad on fire" type things? Thanks once again, you were an amazing help to me! 
wesleywillis fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Jan 17, 2021 |
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Jan 17, 2021 16:44
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I wouldn't mess, default options are pretty sane.quote:Also that when I turned it on the fan came on like it was on high, before settling down. That is normal correct? Like it takes a bit more juice to start the fan moving from a dead stop right? yes. you can turn that off with option 8.5, but I wouldn't if it doesn't drive you nuts.
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Jan 17, 2021 20:47
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MRC48B posted:loving honeywell. they're running the stats in 4pipe mode, but using two + eheat at the fancoil. I know this is your job, but still loving bravo.
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Jan 17, 2021 23:23
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Our furnace runs fine at first but will begin turning off the flame if we use it a lot (short cycling?) Searching online recommended cleaning the flame sensor so I did. When I opened the furnace, I saw some water on top and inside a little bit. I think this water is from combustion and I'm seeing it outside the flue pipe. I feel like the flue pipe connections should be sealed enough to not let water out. Does this mean combustion gases are also leaving the flue? This alcove is in the hallway. I think there is a drainage issue. I hear water in the draft blower after trying to run it for a while. I took some pictures, do you see any issues with the drain lines? Is that a big nipple dangling off the cream elbow that I can use for draining? https://imgur.com/a/nBRDtn6
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Feb 3, 2021 17:15
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bred posted:Our furnace runs fine at first but will begin turning off the flame if we use it a lot (short cycling?) Searching online recommended cleaning the flame sensor so I did. When I opened the furnace, I saw some water on top and inside a little bit. I think this water is from combustion and I'm seeing it outside the flue pipe. I feel like the flue pipe connections should be sealed enough to not let water out. Does this mean combustion gases are also leaving the flue? This alcove is in the hallway. The condensate drain on the left is clogged:  It's gonna make a mess because that box is full of water so start by rolling the tube around in your fingers to see if you can break up whatever is stopping the water flow to at least drain it some fire before removing and cleaning it all.
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Feb 3, 2021 17:38
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Seconded, pull that entire section of tubing all the way to the pvc off and clear it. All the way to the pvc on the left.
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Feb 3, 2021 22:05
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I'm wondering if there are any guidelines for quantity or total area of intakes based on the square footage of the space in a house? The long version of the backstory to this is: My wife and I are slowly renovating the house we have lived in for almost eight years now. We had issues with moisture in the basement, which is 95% underground with the exception of one short wall that is half underground. We intended to get a whole-house dehumidifier installed when we got the furnace and AC replaced, but the guy who did the walkthrough and gave us the estimate told us we didn't have sufficient airflow in the basement and recommended increasing the number of returns we have instead of doing the dehumidification system. He pointed out some specific areas where there were no nearby returns. The basement was finished when we moved in, and we have since torn everything out to the point it is effectively unfinished now. It is pretty clear the PO bought this with an unfinished basement and did a real poo poo job making it look livable.
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Feb 3, 2021 22:44
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Blowjob Overtime posted:I'm wondering if there are any guidelines for quantity or total area of intakes based on the square footage of the space in a house? Manual D https://www.acca.org/viewdocument/acca-speed-sheet-for-manual-d
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Feb 3, 2021 22:48
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Blowjob Overtime posted:I'm wondering if there are any guidelines for quantity or total area of intakes based on the square footage of the space in a house? Manual D is the gold standard here. It doesn't have ultra-specific guidelines for return placement, but the general rule of thumb is that occupied rooms should always have a return path. This doesn't necessarily mean a duct, it can be a jump duct to the hallway or an undercut door. A good contractor would do static pressure readings to ensure a room with a supply (with the door closed) wasn't building positive pressure. The most important thing for returns is that they are large/numerous enough to support the required CFM for the AC (or more important, heat pump) without an obscene static pressure. Grills/filters also play into this, and CFM through them should be figured so you don't get whistling. e:f;b
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Feb 3, 2021 22:53
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B-Nasty posted:Manual D is the gold standard here. Perfect, thank you. This is exactly what I was looking for, but couldn't get the right terms to find in Google.
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Feb 3, 2021 22:57
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Motronic posted:The condensate drain on the left is clogged: Thanks for the tip. I pulled off the drain and it was dry. I thought maybe I left it long enough for any water to evaporate so I turned on heat with the drains unplugged. I heard the draft blower slapping water right away. I let it run to see how much condensate water would come out and it never did. I started checking other rubber hoses to see if any were wet and disconnected a pressure switch which turned off the heating. Water came out immediately. I did some research to learn I need a trap on the condensate drain lines. The service instructions point to a part on the side of the furnace that acts as a trap. I just have two elbows jammed into open PVC at an angle which may be providing trapping at the low point but it is obviously incorrect. I'll try and source the Goodman part. Another thing I see in the instructions is the drain is connected to the long nipple on the elbow. I liked that nipple the first time I saw it. Draining water from the top of that elbow doesn't make sense. The big nipple is molded closed on the end so do I have to break through like the port on a garbage disposal? This means the water coming down that pipe is mostly going into the blower housing.  I looked into the water on top of the cabinet and I can turn the pipe freely. The coupler is just resting on the furnace. If water can come out, then combustion gas can come out so I'll change that to a rubber coupling. Here are a few more pics and video of the draining. https://imgur.com/a/903I1ZB So my next steps are to seal flue with rubber sleeve, add trap, and move the elbow drain to big nipple.
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Feb 6, 2021 02:20
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bred posted:
sounds like a good plan to me. how long has this unit been installed like this?
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Feb 6, 2021 02:33
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We just moved here in November. Everything is very new and clean and a lot of part numbers have 2017 in them so I'm guessing around there. There are couplers on the PVC like there's been some rework so the trap may have been installed and removed. I think the black plastic 90s are normally submerged in the trap but the one I pulled out has been squished flat by pliers and maybe cut short. I'm guessing it was modified to be easier to jam into the 45. I'm looking more and I think the evaporator is draining uphill and has an oil funnel taped to catch the condensation from the refrigerant. I'm not sure of the exact evaporator I have under the insulation but it looks like those drains need a trap as well so I'll redo the PVC according to the instructions. I don't see any mention of draining the water from the refrigerant lines so maybe they thought the water on top was coming from the line instead of the flue.
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Feb 6, 2021 03:16
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In the process of getting another room of our house ready as a nursery for my second child, I determined that apparently the nursey room and the adjacent room that is my oldest son's, share a supply and registers. I honestly hadn't seen this before, but I'm wondering: could I simply add a second register, and then split the supply so that it feeds both registers? My main goal is to attenuate sound once we would move the baby into the nursery so that there isn't a direct path of light/noise between the rooms due to the shared register.
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Feb 8, 2021 23:44
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Woke this morning to a cold house. My boiler won't light up. The pilot is on and the thermostat has power and is calling for heat. When it does so the power damper opens but it doesn't ignite. I cut the breaker to remove power from it and I'm trying to get someone out here. Fortunately it's only going to be in 45-50 for the next couple days.
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Feb 28, 2021 13:12
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hypothetical question here. If I have a standard AC unit would it be practical/possible to convert it from a one way AC only unit to a heat pump? Is there a ballpark cost? I live in the northeast and I would get much more efficient heating via heat pump than burning natural gas. Based on my climate this would work for somewhere around 4-5 months of the year. March-May Oct-Nov/Dec depending on the year. I'd need to rely on natural gas from dec-feb as it does get below 40 during those months. I'm going to assume that this would require a specialized furnace with a control board that would detect when it would be most efficient to go heat pump and run the fan to push air over the inside coils vs burning gas, but was just curious if it was at all possible to retrofit an existing (new) installation to work as a heat pump. They seem to be gaining popularity and kind of wish I was given an option for a hybrid system when I had my system installed last year.
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Mar 2, 2021 14:07
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tater_salad posted:hypothetical question here. If I have a standard AC unit would it be practical/possible to convert it from a one way AC only unit to a heat pump? Is there a ballpark cost? It's not typically feasible to put a reversing valve on an existing AC unit. But you don't have to control the heat pump/fossil switchover with a/the furnace, that's typically done with an additional unit that has a temp sensor outside around here. You hook your thermostat(s) to that, and it in turn connects to your heat/ac units and sequences them based on your you program it. It looks like a dumb thermostat to the units. That's pretty popular around here, where people may have an "AC system" with a reversing valve and a completely separate oil heater. Some heat pump with nat gas or propane furnaces have all of this built in already but that sounds like a parts nightmare to me.
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Mar 2, 2021 14:20
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If he has an AC unit and furnace already, it should be pretty easy to have someone swap the AC unit for a heat pump, right?
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Mar 2, 2021 18:43
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I found someone who describes all the work necessary to "convert" a straight AC unit to a heat pump. They say at the very start "The time and materials it would take to change an air conditioner into a heat pump are not worth it. You would be better off having a new heat pump installed replacing the old air conditioning unit. For me, or another HVAC technician, this would be a pet project for teaching students how to braze for refrigeration and wire heat pump controls for the proper sequence of operation."Elviscat posted:If he has an AC unit and furnace already, it should be pretty easy to have someone swap the AC unit for a heat pump, right? If you mean just swapping the condenser, I seem to recall that the metering device in the evap coil of a straight AC system may not work as a heat pump, as it has to be designed for bi-directional refrigerant flow. The link I posted above doesn't mention it though? So...maybe. I'd think that most straight AC systems would be older and thus probably R22, which would be its own issue with trying to find a matching heat pump condenser.
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Mar 2, 2021 19:00
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Nah, I mean tearing the AC unit out and putting a heat pump in, should mostly just be swapping the coils in the duct and the outside units? E: I should say easier than putting in a heat pump on an install that didn't have an existing AC unit.
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Mar 2, 2021 19:21
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Elviscat posted:Nah, I mean tearing the AC unit out and putting a heat pump in, should mostly just be swapping the coils in the duct and the outside units? It would be swapping the inside unit (control circuitry) the coil (reversible flow) and outside unit (reversing valve). So everything but the ducts. And maybe your line set.
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Mar 2, 2021 20:12
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I just watched the technology connections video about heat pumps and now I have questions about heat pumps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J52mDjZzto Both of these things are 65000BTU https://www.homehardware.ca/en/65000btu-heavy-duty-outdoor-propane-burner/p/6420768 https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/Haywar...PRD7ARKRGTF3YRR Here is an example of the former on a maple sugar boiler :https://www.tscstores.com/STARTER-BOILING-KIT-P44601.aspx Is it possible DIY a heat pump that chills maple sap for storage and also boils it into syrup?
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Mar 3, 2021 22:40
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I doubt it would be worth it for anything other than a "fun" science project, as to boil maple sugar you're trying to hold a temperature of 215-220f. which means you need to have your condenser hotter than that, say 260-280f, to get good heat transfer. Most heat pumps in "heat mode" are only capable of putting out 120-130f max. you would probably need some sort of multi-stage system, with refrigerants, lube, and compressors that can do the temp staging between 40f to 220f. your major issue is going to be not frying your compressors and refrigerant lubricating oil. discharge temps over 225f have a habit of breaking down most oils and compressor winding insulation. there are a few commercial "heat recovery' chillers that can heat water to 180f on one side and chill to 45f on the other. they are expensive and uncommon. TLDR: heat pumps have a limit to the range of temperatures they can pump to and from. boiling water is usually outside that range.
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Mar 4, 2021 00:04
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Thanks for the info. That's a bummer. Would have been nice. Edit : Actually that sounds more difficult than impossible. For example, automotive air conditioners can be belt driven. Could a small one possibly work as the hot side of a multi stage system? Would there be anything in an automotive AC unit that breaks down at high temperatures? DreadLlama fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Mar 4, 2021 |
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Mar 4, 2021 00:32
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I would think that the primary issue with a heat pump driving near boiling temperatures is that the refrigerants are generally not specialized to work in those temperature ranges. As that video you posted says the heat pump works by phase changes in the refrigerant. If you get too high of a temperature then the pump may not be able to drive up pressures high enough to cause it to liquefy from the gas state and thus trap a bunch of latent heat for moving around. There may be compounds that happily phase change at those higher temperatures and you wouldn't have to worry about pushing the compressor so hard to reach higher pressures. But I would think that most of those types of compounds are probably only used in industrial applications. Perhaps a commercial HVAC experts may know more info as I would think that would be the sort of situation you would see this application of technology. water comes to mind is an obvious choice for refrigerant at those temperatures as it happily makes those phase changes exactly where you want it to. Although you may want to be able to tweak it up or down by a few degrees which may require the addition of additional chemicals to suppress or expand the temperature ranges it stays liquid at. Of course water also is a great solvent so it may not work for other reasons... Nitrousoxide fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Mar 4, 2021 |
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Mar 4, 2021 15:25
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Motronic posted:It would be swapping the inside unit (control circuitry) the coil (reversible flow) and outside unit (reversing valve). So everything but the ducts. And maybe your line set. yeah which is not advisable since this is all less than 1 year old. main trunk, AC and Furnace are all brand new, so I was just curious if there was a resonable "retrofit" to make it all a heat pump since it would be usable a few months a year.
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Mar 4, 2021 17:00
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It appears that my two main challenges are finding a high temperature refrigerant and a high temperature compressor. I never would have thought of water. Would I need to pre-boil it? I'm trying to visualize this would work. Would the water need to be under vacuum?
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Mar 4, 2021 17:41
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Steam will completely trash anything not designed for it, I'm not aware of any centrifugal compressors that could handle it.
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Mar 4, 2021 18:01
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Nitrousoxide posted:I would think that the primary issue with a heat pump driving near boiling temperatures is that the refrigerants are generally not specialized to work in those temperature ranges. As that video you posted says the heat pump works by phase changes in the refrigerant. If you get too high of a temperature then the pump may not be able to drive up pressures high enough to cause it to liquefy from the gas state and thus trap a bunch of latent heat for moving around. R-718 does have phase change temps right near where they would be needed. I'm not sure what lubricant is recommended with it though, definitely not POE...
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Mar 4, 2021 18:31
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DreadLlama posted:It appears that my two main challenges are finding a high temperature refrigerant and a high temperature compressor. I never would have thought of water. Would I need to pre-boil it? I'm trying to visualize this would work. Would the water need to be under vacuum? Water is a great idea - heated in a boiler to make steam and then run though a heat exchanger. This will easily reach the high temperatures you want, and would allow you to use cost effective energy dense fuels for heating, like a natural cellulose fiber made from carbon based life forms. Then you can use a completely separate heat pump system that uses commonly available refrigerant to chill an insulated box to reach the lower cooling temperatures you desire.
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Mar 4, 2021 19:43
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DreadLlama posted:Edit : Actually that sounds more difficult than impossible. For example, automotive air conditioners can be belt driven. Could a small one possibly work as the hot side of a multi stage system? Would there be anything in an automotive AC unit that breaks down at high temperatures? only as mentioned previously, the oil and refrigerant. also the seals and bearings. give it a try and  a thread about it.try not to injure yourself. refrigerants are dangerous high pressure gasses, also freeze burns loving suck, and are rare enough that very few medical personnel know how to properly deal with them.
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Mar 5, 2021 00:32
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I'd personally recommend against homebrewing a water based heat pump. You could very easily create a pipebomb if you don't know what you're doing. I'd contact an HVAC tech, preferably one who works for industrial clients, who may have experience using R-718 as a refrigerant.
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Mar 5, 2021 00:49
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These all sound like good ideas. Thank you for giving me the vocabulary to ask the right questions.
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Mar 5, 2021 03:42
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DreadLlama posted:These all sound like good ideas. Thank you for giving me the vocabulary to ask the right questions. Don’t feel married to using water as a refrigerant. The HVAC technician may have better suggestions. There are a ton of refrigerants to choose from. I am imagine from a monetary standpoint this project it won’t make a ton of sense. It’s likely that a lot of custom work would be required to set up the system, and the use of less common refrigerant will also drive up cost and maintenance costs down the line. As other people said a simple boiler and heat exchanger would probably cost you a lot less upfront and be much easier to maintain with technicians who deal with that stuff all the time. If the purpose of it isn’t to save money though but instead because it would be cool definitely go for it.
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Mar 5, 2021 04:32
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MRC48B posted:there are a few commercial "heat recovery' chillers that can heat water to 180f on one side and chill to 45f on the other.  So you're saying a machine exists that could sous vide my dinner while chilling my beer with the same electricity?quote:they are expensive and uncommon. 
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Mar 5, 2021 16:00
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Desuperheater's are the main method for residential heat recovery. They work by taking the waste heat from air conditioning and dumping it into your water heater to pre-heat the cold water coming into it to reduce the work the final water heater needs to do to get it up to temp. It wouldn't really do much to help him here since it only raises incoming cold water's temp, it can't really get the water to the temps he's looking for here.
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Mar 5, 2021 16:30
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wolrah posted:
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Mar 5, 2021 17:44
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Nitrousoxide posted:Don’t feel married to using water as a refrigerant. The HVAC technician may have better suggestions. There are a ton of refrigerants to choose from. Noted. I was looking at something called r245fa before switching my preference to r718. The issue with running a boiler is that it would be more efficient to light a fire under the maple sap directly, which is what most people do. Oil fired and natural gas fired evaporators exist, but most are wood fired. Here is an example of one:  More details: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3767326 I think it's fair to say that people who boil maple sap seriously have efficiency nailed down to a science. Combustion is the way to go 100%. Evaporator pans have deep flues to maximize surface area between flame and maple sap. The fireplaces are covered with insulating fire brick - which is a catalyst that helps initiate secondary combustion. A properly built maple syrup arch is a machine which efficiently converts chemical energy from wood into heat for deliciously caramelized tree sugar. A heat pump driven by electric motor on photovoltaics would be slower and is kind of dumb, but doesn't emit greenhouse gases during operation. And that's really what my goal is. I already have a homebuilt reverse osmosis unit that can remove most of the water from the sap, but I need some way to heat it up caramelize it - otherwise I just have clear sweet treewater. I guess what I'm really saying is that I'm looking for a way to heat up (mostly) water with something more efficient than a resistive heating element, because that's what I'm using right now and it was cheap, but it kind of sucks. But I can run it off an inverter off a battery off solar panels. But for 1.2kW, could I boil maple sap any faster? Heat pumps having a coefficient of performance of >1 sort of what I'm looking at. I know I can light a big fire under my maple sap, but we've been doing that for over 200 years and it could be considered a mature technology. I think there's not much new in 2021 to be learned from building a bigger fire under my maple tree sap. It's sort of solved already.
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Mar 6, 2021 04:44
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DreadLlama posted:A heat pump driven by electric motor on photovoltaics would be slower and is kind of dumb, but doesn't emit greenhouse gases during operation. I have some bad news about basically every chemical used as a refrigerant ever.
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Mar 6, 2021 05:30
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Any recommendations for electronic leak detectors? Want to grab one before summer kicks in, been looking at the testo 300.
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Mar 11, 2021 04:40
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