|
Anyone familiar with the Gene Wolfe book Latro in the Mist? It’s about a roman mercenary with short term memory loss (his memory resets at night, think that goofy Adam Sandler movie with Dru Barrymore and Rob Schneider as a native Hawaiian man) who can see and interact with the gods due to this handicap. How accurate is it? The place names especially make it hard to get into, like Sparta is just called Rope and Spartans are Rope Makers. Not sure if that’s what the Greek would translate into Latin as? I’ve been able to figure out some through googling, and some just thru general history knowledge, but it’s rough going. Really like the story and imperfect glimpse of everyday ancient life.
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2021 22:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 08:04 |
|
|
"Spártē" is the city and "spárton" is a rope or a cable or a thread. It's not clear if there's any real relation beyond the two words sounding similar.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2021 23:04
|
|
|
Grand Fromage posted:https://news.uaf.edu/blue-beads-in-the-tundra/ "Made in Venice, Italy, the tiny blue beads might have travelled more than 10,000 miles in the skin pockets of aboriginal adventurers to reach Bering Strait." ah, that kind of beads
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2021 23:31
|
|
|
ChubbyChecker posted:"Made in Venice, Italy, the tiny blue beads might have travelled more than 10,000 miles in the skin pockets of aboriginal adventurers to reach Bering Strait." the christopher walken part from pulp fiction except it's a 15th century guy and his beads
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2021 23:37
|
|
|
You know theres a thing I've always mused about, and obviously by it's nature no one would have written it down, but I wonder how much and how many of historical head shavings were just compensation by dudes with male-pattern baldness. Everything from Samurai topknots to monk tonsures to those weird ponytail things some european "barbarians" had to the Qing queue. I wonder how many of the were big specifically because it was an excuse for powerful men to soothe their egos by forcing everyone else to be bald too. No one can know you've gone bald at 30 if everyone is required to shave their head after all. I know before modern hygiene there are benefits to not having a bunch of hair for lice to live in and whatnot, but some people seemed to take it a little extreme.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2021 00:15
|
|
|
Kassad posted:"Spártē" is the city and "spárton" is a rope or a cable or a thread. It's not clear if there's any real relation beyond the two words sounding similar. And Athens is Thought?
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2021 00:20
|
|
|
galagazombie posted:You know theres a thing I've always mused about, and obviously by it's nature no one would have written it down, but I wonder how much and how many of historical head shavings were just compensation by dudes with male-pattern baldness. Everything from Samurai topknots to monk tonsures to those weird ponytail things some european "barbarians" had to the Qing queue. I wonder how many of the were big specifically because it was an excuse for powerful men to soothe their egos by forcing everyone else to be bald too. No one can know you've gone bald at 30 if everyone is required to shave their head after all. I know before modern hygiene there are benefits to not having a bunch of hair for lice to live in and whatnot, but some people seemed to take it a little extreme. Wouldn't be surprising, though a lot is also probably simply comparable to modern standards of formal dress and grooming. Equivalent to a short crew cut, along with a suit and tie, and so on. A tonsure also makes sense when it's specifically supposed to be a distinctive and modest haircut, and also one that is still recognisable when you're old and going bald. Combovers aren't new, Julius Caesar had one.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2021 05:12
|
|
|
a fatguy baldspot posted:And Athens is Thought? Very disappointed you didn't reply to the post directly above yours.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2021 05:24
|
|
|
ChubbyChecker posted:ah, that kind of beads 
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2021 05:34
|
|
|
What were interior doors like in say Rome of the late republic? Were they common enough that apartment buildings might have them?
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2021 09:07
|
|
|
galagazombie posted:You know theres a thing I've always mused about, and obviously by it's nature no one would have written it down, but I wonder how much and how many of historical head shavings were just compensation by dudes with male-pattern baldness. Everything from Samurai topknots to monk tonsures to those weird ponytail things some european "barbarians" had to the Qing queue. I wonder how many of the were big specifically because it was an excuse for powerful men to soothe their egos by forcing everyone else to be bald too. No one can know you've gone bald at 30 if everyone is required to shave their head after all. I know before modern hygiene there are benefits to not having a bunch of hair for lice to live in and whatnot, but some people seemed to take it a little extreme. the carolignians used tonsuring like the byzantines used eye-gouging—symbolically publicly castrating a defeated king and marking them as unfit for power. There was an association in that period of particularly remarkable locks with kingship; the merovignians claimed to be scions of a line descended from mermaids that was evinced in their magnificent red manes. so when pepin the short did his little papal power-play the first thing he did was shave childebert in the cathedral in front of everybody and god. The carolignians too reportedly had very good hair (note that Charles the Bald's nickname is seemingly ironic, or if it wasnt hair was still so important to the image of the kingship that all his coins and statues had it added). it didn't always work either, though
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2021 09:28
|
|
|
The Han, of course, measured legitimacy via earlobe length.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2021 14:26
|
|
|
Carillon posted:What were interior doors like in say Rome of the late republic? Were they common enough that apartment buildings might have them? Interesting question. I do not know if a regular apartment would have had interior doors. As far as I know there are no surviving upper stories of insulae to study, we just have ground floors and very rarely a second floor. The ground floors were for businesses and/or richer people, they do have doorways. I would guess the cheap apartments at the top were single room situations. They may have had doors dividing apartments from one another but probably not inside. The middle ones... ??? Wealthy houses did have interior doors, which we know because we have surviving examples!  Impressions of interior doors from the Villa Poppaea, which was another victim of Vesuvius. This is thought to have been owned by Nero so it's not exactly a normal household, but it's reasonably representative of a rich person's villa. I like the molding of the doors, they're actually identical to the doors in my house. I've always wondered if it's coincidental or if this door design became popular because it was seen at this site. I assume the latter, when you go around well preserved Roman villas there are lots of decorative elements that you also see in Victorian/early 20th century homes which makes it all weirdly familiar.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2021 18:58
|
|
|
Holy poo poo I too am sitting ten feet away from an identical door.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2021 19:54
|
|
|
Grand Fromage posted:Interesting question. I do not know if a regular apartment would have had interior doors. As far as I know there are no surviving upper stories of insulae to study, we just have ground floors and very rarely a second floor. The ground floors were for businesses and/or richer people, they do have doorways. I would guess the cheap apartments at the top were single room situations. They may have had doors dividing apartments from one another but probably not inside. The middle ones... ??? That's really neat!
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2021 20:21
|
|
|
Grand Fromage posted:Interesting question. I do not know if a regular apartment would have had interior doors. As far as I know there are no surviving upper stories of insulae to study, we just have ground floors and very rarely a second floor. The ground floors were for businesses and/or richer people, they do have doorways. I would guess the cheap apartments at the top were single room situations. They may have had doors dividing apartments from one another but probably not inside. The middle ones... ??? You see wood panelling like that in Georgian-era wooden homes too. It's functional; the central panel can expand and contract with hot or cold temperatures, preventing the door from cracking. Unless, of course, volcano.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2021 20:52
|
|
|
Grand Fromage posted:Interesting question. I do not know if a regular apartment would have had interior doors. As far as I know there are no surviving upper stories of insulae to study, we just have ground floors and very rarely a second floor. The ground floors were for businesses and/or richer people, they do have doorways. I would guess the cheap apartments at the top were single room situations. They may have had doors dividing apartments from one another but probably not inside. The middle ones... ??? Really cool, thanks. Were the latching mechanisms pretty basic? Did they have any complex fasteners or openings?
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2021 21:05
|
|
|
Carillon posted:Really cool, thanks. Were the latching mechanisms pretty basic? Did they have any complex fasteners or openings? They had various kinds of locks: https://www.historicallocks.com/en/site/h/other-locks/19-keys-and-locks-from-imperial-rome/roman-door-locks/ The only kind of Roman non-lock door latch I can find pictures of is a couple of hoops that looks like you'd stick a pin through. I would guess basic stuff like a hook or bar you flip over into a slot was in use.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2021 21:12
|
|
|
They also had some surprisingly modern-looking sliding and folding doors. Here's one from Pompeii: https://twitter.com/PlanetPompeii/status/1034040887796551680
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2021 21:41
|
|
|
Grand Fromage posted:Interesting question. I do not know if a regular apartment would have had interior doors. As far as I know there are no surviving upper stories of insulae to study, we just have ground floors and very rarely a second floor. The ground floors were for businesses and/or richer people, they do have doorways. I would guess the cheap apartments at the top were single room situations. They may have had doors dividing apartments from one another but probably not inside. The middle ones... ??? It requires less wood and makes the doors lighter, so it's a good way to make interior doors that don't have to be as strong or insulating as outer doors. I wonder what eg. Asian interior doors looked like? My guess is that if interior doors are used, they'd look about the same everywhere because it's a great solution, just like iron age swords look the same in China and Rome.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2021 00:49
|
|
|
Grand Fromage posted:Interesting question. I do not know if a regular apartment would have had interior doors. As far as I know there are no surviving upper stories of insulae to study, we just have ground floors and very rarely a second floor. The ground floors were for businesses and/or richer people, they do have doorways. I would guess the cheap apartments at the top were single room situations. They may have had doors dividing apartments from one another but probably not inside. The middle ones... ??? According to the professor of my Roman Social history class I am currently taking, upper floors of insulae often used fabrics hanging from the ceiling to divide rooms apart. I can't find a reference to this in any of the course texts, but he may have pulled that fact from a textual source we have not read for the class.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2021 08:29
|
|
|
If the Spartan upper class just ate lentil soup or whatever, why did they need this large population of helots farming? Where their farming methods just that bad or where they exporting a lot of it?
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2021 19:44
|
|
|
Weka posted:If the Spartan upper class just ate lentil soup or whatever, why did they need this large population of helots farming? Where their farming methods just that bad or where they exporting a lot of it? So they could be the leisure class and spend all their time thinking of ways to be bad asses, instead of farming
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2021 19:50
|
|
|
There were never that many spartiates either so a "large population of helots" relative to them wasn't actually all that big. Athens had a much bigger population.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2021 20:15
|
|
|
Another thing to keep in mind about Sparta is that in addition to the Spartiates and the Helots, there was a third class called the perioikoi, who were neither citizens nor slaves. We don't know exactly how many of them there were, but it was probably a lot. They also needed food.
CrypticFox fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Feb 7, 2021 |
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2021 20:19
|
|
|
Weka posted:If the Spartan upper class just ate lentil soup or whatever, why did they need this large population of helots farming? Where their farming methods just that bad or where they exporting a lot of it? The Spartan upper class didn't just eat lentil soup. The defining Spartan upper class dish was something called Black Broth, which is a stew made out of pork, pig's blood and vinegar. Max Miller, who recreates historical foods on Youtube tried it, and said it was bland but ok. That wasn't all they ate though. A bunch of historians said their meals were more austere than other Greeks, but Spartan dining clubs ate meals of fish, meat, fruit, vegetables, bread, cakes, wine and the same sort of things that the upper class in other cities were eating. Spartiate adults didn't really live lives all that different than adult elites in other Greek cities. Most of their time was spent on estate management, hunting, and so on.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2021 21:19
|
|
|
CrypticFox posted:According to the professor of my Roman Social history class I am currently taking, upper floors of insulae often used fabrics hanging from the ceiling to divide rooms apart. I can't find a reference to this in any of the course texts, but he may have pulled that fact from a textual source we have not read for the class. Age of sail ships did the same thing while in port to divide up temporary family living arrangements on the lower decks.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2021 23:17
|
|
|
The british army in the same period did it too. The majority of the enlisted would sleep without separation, but the lucky few senior enlisted in a given garrison would be allowed to bring their wives along, and their barracks got curtains to divide up the beds. e: it's funny to imagine all the gruff sideburned and mustachio'd sergeants being hardcore swingers in their down time Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Feb 7, 2021 |
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2021 23:23
|
|
|
Speaking of cake and sweet wines, i''m assuming everyone used honey before sugar came around.How big where beekeepers in rome or greece? Is there any remains of ancient bee farms around?
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2021 23:23
|
|
|
Antifa Poltergeist posted:Speaking of cake and sweet wines, i''m assuming everyone used honey before sugar came around.How big where beekeepers in rome or greece? Is there any remains of ancient bee farms around?
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2021 01:04
|
|
|
Weren't the romans big into concentrated grape juice (w/ bonus lead acetate) as a sweetener?
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2021 01:51
|
|
|
Edgar Allen Ho posted:
If the Aubrey-Maturin novel series can be believed (the which it absolutely can, you God-damned lubbers), Royal Navy officers hooking up with other officers' wives while they were away was practically a competitive sport.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2021 02:58
|
|
|
Edgar Allen Ho posted:The british army in the same period did it too. The majority of the enlisted would sleep without separation, but the lucky few senior enlisted in a given garrison would be allowed to bring their wives along, and their barracks got curtains to divide up the beds. I mean..... you never rented a single hotel room with two queen beds with a buddy to bang your girlfriends on the cheap while traveling? We didn't have curtains just low lighting though. #justmilitarythings
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2021 03:37
|
|
|
Antifa Poltergeist posted:Speaking of cake and sweet wines, i''m assuming everyone used honey before sugar came around.How big where beekeepers in rome or greece? Is there any remains of ancient bee farms around? There are surviving big masonry apiaries and a lot of art showing more traditional skeps.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2021 03:51
|
|
Edgar Allen Ho posted:The british army in the same period did it too. The majority of the enlisted would sleep without separation, but the lucky few senior enlisted in a given garrison would be allowed to bring their wives along, and their barracks got curtains to divide up the beds. Modern swinging was literally started by military officers swapping wifes at the bases.
|
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2021 11:21
|
|
|
Military wives sampling the soldiery sounds nicer
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2021 11:34
|
|
|
Antifa Poltergeist posted:Speaking of cake and sweet wines, i''m assuming everyone used honey before sugar came around.How big where beekeepers in rome or greece? Is there any remains of ancient bee farms around? Honey was definitely big in all sorts of ancient cultures, but I'm sure there were other sweeteners available before the import of cane sugar or the processing of beets. Ripe fruit is sweet, you can dry it, you can cook the juice to a syrup etc. It may have been rare in some cultures, but I don't think it was exclusively an upper class thing. Anyone roaming through the forest can find berries after all.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2021 15:24
|
|
|
I've sometimes wanted to know: why is 90% of ancient medical literature of all cultures about how to poop regularly?
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2021 15:49
|
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:I've sometimes wanted to know: why is 90% of ancient medical literature of all cultures about how to poop regularly? not a ton of fibre in the diets of rich men?
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2021 15:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 08:04 |
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:I've sometimes wanted to know: why is 90% of ancient medical literature of all cultures about how to poop regularly? I'd guess a couple of things: 1) Everyone was far more active than they are now. Houses were small with little furniture; they were little more than places to sleep. Most people were outdoors actively doing stuff from sunup to sundown. Being constipated was really uncomfortable and got in the way of most of your life. 2) It was one medical condition for which cause and effect could be pretty clearly delineated. When most medicine was quite sketchy and only partially effective, it was one thing they could point to with good confidence that would work - giving the authors more credibility overall.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2021 15:56
|
|
