dyzzy posted:

Alright see y'all when the next season is around the corner

splifyphus posted:

splifyphus posted:

No, it doesn't, because this is a work of fiction. It doesn't 'have to be' any which way, and it is the way it is because it's based off a D&D campaign that's been fleshed out by amateur writers who ran out of ideas and began recycling their own material.

Everything to do with Inaros is a mistep, and a lazy one at that. Oh no stealth rocks are headed for Earth - we've already done this. If you're going to write a new trilogy having a new story to tell is kind of a prerequisite, and they set themselves up with virtually infinite potential for new material and totally fumbled it.

e: Let's do an actual analysis. Class struggle in space is easy town frolics, it writes itself - because it's a story that's been generated by a social order that is itself defined by fundamental antagonisms of social interest. All you have to do is take actual history and put it in space - scifi is largely just this, from star trek to star wars and back again. Earth is USA, Mars is Soviets, the belt is the 'third world', ie; the global periphery. Yawn.

Now, class struggle irl is the opposite of pointless - it's extremely pointful and can't be escaped. The 'developed world', ie; the global core exploits the global periphery for its wealth and resources - it would take 6 earthlike planets and an additional 30 billion super-exploited peoples to give the currently existing population the 'lifestyles' enjoyed by the inhabitants of the core. This is obviously impossible, and calling this state of affairs a 'civilization' is a euphemism in appallingly bad taste.

Because the core has most of the resources, it generates the most leisure time and thereby the most art. For a writer to get published, he/she/it has to appeal to the audience that can afford the time/money to consume said writings. So the vast majority of what is published is going to be written from the perspective of the current winners of history, the middle and upper classes of the 'developed world', for their own perspective. For a writing to get filmed for television, the barrier to entry is even more strict. Film production is expensive, and the vast majority of it has to conform to hegemonic perspectives, narratives, and expectations just have a shot at the screen.

The middle and upper classes of the core like their burgers and SUVs and television and air conditioning and live under the most totalizing propaganda apparatus ever conceived, so they aren't really about anyone who might want to change this situation so that there might actually be like, a liveable future or any such thing. So when they consume literature generated by social antagonisms about social antagonisms, it's all gonna be written from one side of actually existing social antagonisms.

This is what Inaros is - an ridiculous exaggeration of real world interests opposed to the dominion of capitalism (also known as the 7th mass extinction event). He's not interested in making the belt politically or economically independent, he can't even spell the word 'autarchy', he has no concrete analysis of his conditions, he has no grand plan for new structures of social relations, he doesn't really give a gently caress about Belter liberation, his 'fleet' is partially composed of indentured unwilling participants, he doesn't even have that much of a mass base - he just wants to kill as many Earthers as possible as fast as he can. (This is not a 'genocide' - a genocide is ethnically targetted, Inaros is a specifically democidal maniac). So he does. Instantly and obvously this makes everything worse for everyone - the belt is defenceless except for the 'Free Fleet' and and isn't remotely self-sufficient.

No actual Belter revolutionary group would ever have done anything like this. It's ludicrous. A non-caricature, seriously organized group working from such an overwhelmingly underdog position would have used the threat of possible conflict to negotiate more equitable deals, a lasting peace and some level of Belter self-determination (or at this point in the narrative, focused its efforts on GTFOing to any one of the thousands of new explicitly habitable systems available, where the fun and cool stories are) - not hosed the entire sol system up the rear end with a big rock. Not even Stalin or Mao ever set out to do anything this deranged. You don't build a new future by burning everything down.

This is an absurd cartoon of actual world history, obviously based on the absurd cartoon of propagandistic bullshit the USA tells itself about its own history. ANARCHISTS BAD, CAPITAL GOOD, SHUT UP AND WATCH YOUR SHOW WAGE SLAVE. Marco Inaros is Jeff Bezos jizzing into your gaping credulous eye sockets when you could be doing your goddamn homework.

splifyphus posted:

No, it doesn't, because this is a work of fiction. It doesn't 'have to be' any which way, and it is the way it is because it's based off a D&D campaign that's been fleshed out by amateur writers who ran out of ideas and began recycling their own material.

Everything to do with Inaros is a mistep, and a lazy one at that. Oh no stealth rocks are headed for Earth - we've already done this. If you're going to write a new trilogy having a new story to tell is kind of a prerequisite, and they set themselves up with virtually infinite potential for new material and totally fumbled it.

e: Let's do an actual analysis. Class struggle in space is easy town frolics, it writes itself - because it's a story that's been generated by a social order that is itself defined by fundamental antagonisms of social interest. All you have to do is take actual history and put it in space - scifi is largely just this, from star trek to star wars and back again. Earth is USA, Mars is Soviets, the belt is the 'third world', ie; the global periphery. Yawn.

Now, class struggle irl is the opposite of pointless - it's extremely pointful and can't be escaped. The 'developed world', ie; the global core exploits the global periphery for its wealth and resources - it would take 6 earthlike planets and an additional 30 billion super-exploited peoples to give the currently existing population the 'lifestyles' enjoyed by the inhabitants of the core. This is obviously impossible, and calling this state of affairs a 'civilization' is a euphemism in appallingly bad taste.

Because the core has most of the resources, it generates the most leisure time and thereby the most art. For a writer to get published, he/she/it has to appeal to the audience that can afford the time/money to consume said writings. So the vast majority of what is published is going to be written from the perspective of the current winners of history, the middle and upper classes of the 'developed world', for their own perspective. For a writing to get filmed for television, the barrier to entry is even more strict. Film production is expensive, and the vast majority of it has to conform to hegemonic perspectives, narratives, and expectations just have a shot at the screen.

The middle and upper classes of the core like their burgers and SUVs and television and air conditioning and live under the most totalizing propaganda apparatus ever conceived, so they aren't really about anyone who might want to change this situation so that there might actually be like, a liveable future or any such thing. So when they consume literature generated by social antagonisms about social antagonisms, it's all gonna be written from one side of actually existing social antagonisms.

This is what Inaros is - an ridiculous exaggeration of real world interests opposed to the dominion of capitalism (also known as the 7th mass extinction event). He's not interested in making the belt politically or economically independent, he can't even spell the word 'autarchy', he has no concrete analysis of his conditions, he has no grand plan for new structures of social relations, he doesn't really give a gently caress about Belter liberation, his 'fleet' is partially composed of indentured unwilling participants, he doesn't even have that much of a mass base - he just wants to kill as many Earthers as possible as fast as he can. (This is not a 'genocide' - a genocide is ethnically targetted, Inaros is a specifically democidal maniac). So he does. Instantly and obvously this makes everything worse for everyone - the belt is defenceless except for the 'Free Fleet' and and isn't remotely self-sufficient.

No actual Belter revolutionary group would ever have done anything like this. It's ludicrous. A non-caricature, seriously organized group working from such an overwhelmingly underdog position would have used the threat of possible conflict to negotiate more equitable deals, a lasting peace and some level of Belter self-determination (or at this point in the narrative, focused its efforts on GTFOing to any one of the thousands of new explicitly habitable systems available, where the fun and cool stories are) - not hosed the entire sol system up the rear end with a big rock. Not even Stalin or Mao ever set out to do anything this deranged. You don't build a new future by burning everything down.

This is an absurd cartoon of actual world history, obviously based on the absurd cartoon of propagandistic bullshit the USA tells itself about its own history. ANARCHISTS BAD, CAPITAL GOOD, SHUT UP AND WATCH YOUR SHOW WAGE SLAVE. Marco Inaros is Jeff Bezos jizzing into your gaping credulous eye sockets when you could be doing your goddamn homework.

splifyphus posted:

No, it doesn't, because this is a work of fiction. It doesn't 'have to be' any which way, and it is the way it is because it's based off a D&D campaign that's been fleshed out by amateur writers who ran out of ideas and began recycling their own material.

Everything to do with Inaros is a mistep, and a lazy one at that. Oh no stealth rocks are headed for Earth - we've already done this. If you're going to write a new trilogy having a new story to tell is kind of a prerequisite, and they set themselves up with virtually infinite potential for new material and totally fumbled it.

e: Let's do an actual analysis. Class struggle in space is easy town frolics, it writes itself - because it's a story that's been generated by a social order that is itself defined by fundamental antagonisms of social interest. All you have to do is take actual history and put it in space - scifi is largely just this, from star trek to star wars and back again. Earth is USA, Mars is Soviets, the belt is the 'third world', ie; the global periphery. Yawn.

Now, class struggle irl is the opposite of pointless - it's extremely pointful and can't be escaped. The 'developed world', ie; the global core exploits the global periphery for its wealth and resources - it would take 6 earthlike planets and an additional 30 billion super-exploited peoples to give the currently existing population the 'lifestyles' enjoyed by the inhabitants of the core. This is obviously impossible, and calling this state of affairs a 'civilization' is a euphemism in appallingly bad taste.

Because the core has most of the resources, it generates the most leisure time and thereby the most art. For a writer to get published, he/she/it has to appeal to the audience that can afford the time/money to consume said writings. So the vast majority of what is published is going to be written from the perspective of the current winners of history, the middle and upper classes of the 'developed world', for their own perspective. For a writing to get filmed for television, the barrier to entry is even more strict. Film production is expensive, and the vast majority of it has to conform to hegemonic perspectives, narratives, and expectations just have a shot at the screen.

The middle and upper classes of the core like their burgers and SUVs and television and air conditioning and live under the most totalizing propaganda apparatus ever conceived, so they aren't really about anyone who might want to change this situation so that there might actually be like, a liveable future or any such thing. So when they consume literature generated by social antagonisms about social antagonisms, it's all gonna be written from one side of actually existing social antagonisms.

This is what Inaros is - an ridiculous exaggeration of real world interests opposed to the dominion of capitalism (also known as the 7th mass extinction event). He's not interested in making the belt politically or economically independent, he can't even spell the word 'autarchy', he has no concrete analysis of his conditions, he has no grand plan for new structures of social relations, he doesn't really give a gently caress about Belter liberation, his 'fleet' is partially composed of indentured unwilling participants, he doesn't even have that much of a mass base - he just wants to kill as many Earthers as possible as fast as he can. (This is not a 'genocide' - a genocide is ethnically targetted, Inaros is a specifically democidal maniac). So he does. Instantly and obvously this makes everything worse for everyone - the belt is defenceless except for the 'Free Fleet' and and isn't remotely self-sufficient.

No actual Belter revolutionary group would ever have done anything like this. It's ludicrous. A non-caricature, seriously organized group working from such an overwhelmingly underdog position would have used the threat of possible conflict to negotiate more equitable deals, a lasting peace and some level of Belter self-determination (or at this point in the narrative, focused its efforts on GTFOing to any one of the thousands of new explicitly habitable systems available, where the fun and cool stories are) - not hosed the entire sol system up the rear end with a big rock. Not even Stalin or Mao ever set out to do anything this deranged. You don't build a new future by burning everything down.

This is an absurd cartoon of actual world history, obviously based on the absurd cartoon of propagandistic bullshit the USA tells itself about its own history. ANARCHISTS BAD, CAPITAL GOOD, SHUT UP AND WATCH YOUR SHOW WAGE SLAVE. Marco Inaros is Jeff Bezos jizzing into your gaping credulous eye sockets when you could be doing your goddamn homework.

splifyphus posted:

Tighclops posted:

I get what you're saying but realistically I have to put at least some of this out of my mind when I watch these shows or I'll never be able to enjoy any popular western media; the kind of story I would *really like* to see is not possible for the reasons you defined so in the meantime I will settle for pansexual anarcho-communist pirate polycules getting some love on screen and maybe getting some people to question things and start thinking

Strom Cuzewon posted:

Also Inaros is textually a dumbass with no real ideology. The OPA are the proper revolutionaries, Inaros is the Four Lions dudes.

Koirhor posted:

I guess it wasn’t clear to me or I missed something was Mean Lady supposed to be Naomi’s mother?

Strom Cuzewon posted:

Also Inaros is textually a dumbass with no real ideology. The OPA are the proper revolutionaries, Inaros is the Four Lions dudes.

Bedshaped posted:

This show does foreboding really well though just like early GoT, and I hope it means the show's last season will wrap up both the problem of the fascist martian rebellion and the evil gate aliens in a neat little bow.

Orange Devil posted:

You aren't the first person I've seen write this, but what makes any of you believe that the gate aliens are evil?

Orange Devil posted:

You aren't the first person I've seen write this, but what makes any of you believe that the gate aliens are evil?

Toast Museum posted:

No. Like Cyn, she was part of Naomi's literal and figurative crew back in the day.

Edit: typo

etalian posted:

Pella station

Strom Cuzewon posted:

They glow red.

Alchenar posted:

Hmm, so there's the gate builders and the gate aliens and they are both incomprehensibly advanced to humanity, but the gate alien legacy is that they wiped out the gate builders in an instant, whereas the gate builder legacy is that they seem pretty indifferent to other life and the only point at which they posed a threat to humanity was either incidental or because humanity accidentally triggered a threat alert.

Gully Foyle posted:

I mean, the gate builders deliberately hijack organic life that exists on other systems to take over and expand their network. We also don't know why the gate aliens seem to be antagonistic to the gate builders. It's possible the gates themselves are a fundamental threat to whatever dimension the gate aliens live in and every time a ring is used, it is killing or hurting the gate aliens, so they are acting/acted in self defense against the beings who aggressively use their dimension for their own self-interest.

Ascribing a moral code or assigning good/evil to either one seems impossible when we have barely any concept of the motiviations, actions, or desires of either group.

Alchenar posted:

I don't think that's right - the protomolecule uses Venus as the material for the gate. It hijacks organic life that gets in its way but that doesn't seem like a malicious process and more an unintended outcome of being fired at solar systems and landing a few hundred thousand years later somewhere that's statistically unlikely to have life because nowhere does, with instructions to find matter and build a gate.

e: and yes technically we don't know their motivations but the show tells us (through Holden) that they are angry and genocidal, which is what we have to work with at the moment. I know the books give us a little more to work with but I think this is one of those instances where you have to take the tv adaptation on face value with the interpretation they've gone with.

Alchenar posted:

I don't think that's right - the protomolecule uses Venus as the material for the gate. It hijacks organic life that gets in its way but that doesn't seem like a malicious process and more an unintended outcome of being fired at solar systems and landing a few hundred thousand years later somewhere that's statistically unlikely to have life because nowhere does, with instructions to find matter and build a gate.

splifyphus posted:

No, it doesn't, because this is a work of fiction. It doesn't 'have to be' any which way, and it is the way it is because it's based off a D&D campaign that's been fleshed out by amateur writers who ran out of ideas and began recycling their own material.

Everything to do with Inaros is a mistep, and a lazy one at that. Oh no stealth rocks are headed for Earth - we've already done this. If you're going to write a new trilogy having a new story to tell is kind of a prerequisite, and they set themselves up with virtually infinite potential for new material and totally fumbled it.

e: Let's do an actual analysis. Class struggle in space is easy town frolics, it writes itself - because it's a story that's been generated by a social order that is itself defined by fundamental antagonisms of social interest. All you have to do is take actual history and put it in space - scifi is largely just this, from star trek to star wars and back again. Earth is USA, Mars is Soviets, the belt is the 'third world', ie; the global periphery. Yawn.

splifyphus posted:

This is what Inaros is - an ridiculous exaggeration of real world interests opposed to the dominion of capitalism (also known as the 7th mass extinction event). He's not interested in making the belt politically or economically independent, he can't even spell the word 'autarchy', he has no concrete analysis of his conditions, he has no grand plan for new structures of social relations, he doesn't really give a gently caress about Belter liberation, his 'fleet' is partially composed of indentured unwilling participants, he doesn't even have that much of a mass base - he just wants to kill as many Earthers as possible as fast as he can. (This is not a 'genocide' - a genocide is ethnically targetted, Inaros is a specifically democidal maniac). So he does. Instantly and obvously this makes everything worse for everyone - the belt is defenceless except for the 'Free Fleet' and and isn't remotely self-sufficient.

splifyphus posted:

No actual Belter revolutionary group would ever have done anything like this. It's ludicrous. A non-caricature, seriously organized group working from such an overwhelmingly underdog position would have used the threat of possible conflict to negotiate more equitable deals, a lasting peace and some level of Belter self-determination (or at this point in the narrative, focused its efforts on GTFOing to any one of the thousands of new explicitly habitable systems available, where the fun and cool stories are) - not hosed the entire sol system up the rear end with a big rock. Not even Stalin or Mao ever set out to do anything this deranged. You don't build a new future by burning everything down.

splifyphus posted:

This is an absurd cartoon of actual world history, obviously based on the absurd cartoon of propagandistic bullshit the USA tells itself about its own history. ANARCHISTS BAD, CAPITAL GOOD, SHUT UP AND WATCH YOUR SHOW WAGE SLAVE. Marco Inaros is Jeff Bezos jizzing into your gaping credulous eye sockets when you could be doing your goddamn homework.

splifyphus posted:

e: Let's do an actual analysis.

splifyphus posted:

No actual Belter

cjg posted:

Am I color blind? I thought they were orange.

splifyphus posted:

No, it doesn't, because this is a work of fiction. It doesn't 'have to be' any which way, and it is the way it is because it's based off a D&D campaign that's been fleshed out by amateur writers who ran out of ideas and began recycling their own material.

Everything to do with Inaros is a mistep, and a lazy one at that. Oh no stealth rocks are headed for Earth - we've already done this. If you're going to write a new trilogy having a new story to tell is kind of a prerequisite, and they set themselves up with virtually infinite potential for new material and totally fumbled it.

e: Let's do an actual analysis. Class struggle in space is easy town frolics, it writes itself - because it's a story that's been generated by a social order that is itself defined by fundamental antagonisms of social interest. All you have to do is take actual history and put it in space - scifi is largely just this, from star trek to star wars and back again. Earth is USA, Mars is Soviets, the belt is the 'third world', ie; the global periphery. Yawn.

Now, class struggle irl is the opposite of pointless - it's extremely pointful and can't be escaped. The 'developed world', ie; the global core exploits the global periphery for its wealth and resources - it would take 6 earthlike planets and an additional 30 billion super-exploited peoples to give the currently existing population the 'lifestyles' enjoyed by the inhabitants of the core. This is obviously impossible, and calling this state of affairs a 'civilization' is a euphemism in appallingly bad taste.

Because the core has most of the resources, it generates the most leisure time and thereby the most art. For a writer to get published, he/she/it has to appeal to the audience that can afford the time/money to consume said writings. So the vast majority of what is published is going to be written from the perspective of the current winners of history, the middle and upper classes of the 'developed world', for their own perspective. For a writing to get filmed for television, the barrier to entry is even more strict. Film production is expensive, and the vast majority of it has to conform to hegemonic perspectives, narratives, and expectations just have a shot at the screen.

The middle and upper classes of the core like their burgers and SUVs and television and air conditioning and live under the most totalizing propaganda apparatus ever conceived, so they aren't really about anyone who might want to change this situation so that there might actually be like, a liveable future or any such thing. So when they consume literature generated by social antagonisms about social antagonisms, it's all gonna be written from one side of actually existing social antagonisms.

This is what Inaros is - an ridiculous exaggeration of real world interests opposed to the dominion of capitalism (also known as the 7th mass extinction event). He's not interested in making the belt politically or economically independent, he can't even spell the word 'autarchy', he has no concrete analysis of his conditions, he has no grand plan for new structures of social relations, he doesn't really give a gently caress about Belter liberation, his 'fleet' is partially composed of indentured unwilling participants, he doesn't even have that much of a mass base - he just wants to kill as many Earthers as possible as fast as he can. (This is not a 'genocide' - a genocide is ethnically targetted, Inaros is a specifically democidal maniac). So he does. Instantly and obvously this makes everything worse for everyone - the belt is defenceless except for the 'Free Fleet' and and isn't remotely self-sufficient.

No actual Belter revolutionary group would ever have done anything like this. It's ludicrous. A non-caricature, seriously organized group working from such an overwhelmingly underdog position would have used the threat of possible conflict to negotiate more equitable deals, a lasting peace and some level of Belter self-determination (or at this point in the narrative, focused its efforts on GTFOing to any one of the thousands of new explicitly habitable systems available, where the fun and cool stories are) - not hosed the entire sol system up the rear end with a big rock. Not even Stalin or Mao ever set out to do anything this deranged. You don't build a new future by burning everything down.

This is an absurd cartoon of actual world history, obviously based on the absurd cartoon of propagandistic bullshit the USA tells itself about its own history. ANARCHISTS BAD, CAPITAL GOOD, SHUT UP AND WATCH YOUR SHOW WAGE SLAVE. Marco Inaros is Jeff Bezos jizzing into your gaping credulous eye sockets when you could be doing your goddamn homework.

Alchenar posted:

Imagine being so pumped up on marxism that you write that screed and your class analysis cannot account for the existence of terrorism

Mu Zeta posted:

From what I gather the two alien species are like the protheans and reapers in Mass Effect if that helps.

I think Holden is pretty much the only guy in the show that believes that the red swooshing aliens exist. Maybe Fred too before he died.

Strom Cuzewon posted:

Also Inaros is textually a dumbass with no real ideology. The OPA are the proper revolutionaries, Inaros is the Four Lions dudes.

Phi230 posted:

Rabbah Dinghy Rapids, Beratna

stratdax posted:

Are we meant to think every belter is a weird elongated skinny person like that belter Avasarala was torturing in the first(?) episode? And they aren't doing that because that's a boatload of cgi they don't have the budget for? Bull was calling them "skinnies" so I'm leaning towards "yes".