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God... I wonder if some people are going to send Thane in the vents or give the squad to Zaeed in 2021
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# ? Feb 8, 2021 18:29 |
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# ? Apr 16, 2024 05:44 |
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I feel that if you can't resolve Rannoch peacefully, you should get Renegade points either way because both options are Shepard allowing genocide.
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# ? Feb 8, 2021 18:29 |
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i think rannoch was a disaster on par with the game's ending because the way the geth were portrayed in ME2 was so good and so unique and it was crushed flat into generic robot-racism on one side and pinocchio syndrome on the other. completely facile
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# ? Feb 8, 2021 18:29 |
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Funky Valentine posted:I feel that if you can't resolve Rannoch peacefully, you should get Renegade points either way because both options are Shepard allowing genocide. Quarians had it coming.
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# ? Feb 8, 2021 18:34 |
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exquisite tea posted:Quarians had it coming. They really do Oxxidation posted:i think rannoch was a disaster on par with the game's ending because the way the geth were portrayed in ME2 was so good and so unique and it was crushed flat into generic robot-racism on one side and pinocchio syndrome on the other. completely facile I will certainly grant you the "Pinocchio Syndrome" as you call it as a bad swerve, even if it does get us one of the better character send-offs in the series "I know, Tali. But thank you" but the robot-racism side of it was a thing from minute 1 of Mass Effect 1. edit- words. DourCricket fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Feb 8, 2021 |
# ? Feb 8, 2021 18:37 |
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Oxxidation posted:i think rannoch was a disaster on par with the game's ending because the way the geth were portrayed in ME2 was so good and so unique and it was crushed flat into generic robot-racism on one side and pinocchio syndrome on the other. completely facile Agreed. It doesn't come up enough but ME3 absolutely RUINED the Geth as a concept
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# ? Feb 8, 2021 18:39 |
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DourCricket posted:They really do Yeah but I'm not gonna let my space waifu down.
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# ? Feb 8, 2021 18:41 |
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exquisite tea posted:Quarians had it coming. No matter how my Shepard leans, they will always take the Renegade way to end the war between the two because at that point they have to be completely tired of the Quarians deliberately trying to torpedo all their work.
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# ? Feb 8, 2021 18:50 |
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DoubleNegative posted:No matter how my Shepard leans, they will always take the Renegade way to end the war between the two because at that point they have to be completely tired of the Quarians deliberately trying to torpedo all their work. Oof, I forgot how Renegade in ME2 and 3 turned you into a hosed up
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# ? Feb 8, 2021 19:17 |
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exquisite tea posted:Saren kicking around a trash can inside Sovereign screaming RAAARGH! ARRGHHA! in Mass Effect 1 is the absolute lowest point in the trilogy and I'm including the star child here. Can we bundle that up with anything to do with Benezia?
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# ? Feb 8, 2021 19:24 |
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Can someone explain in detail the issue with how the geth and/or quarians are portrayed? I remember feeling it was pretty consistent across all the games but I haven't played them in years
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# ? Feb 8, 2021 20:09 |
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exquisite tea posted:Saren kicking around a trash can inside Sovereign screaming RAAARGH! ARRGHHA! in Mass Effect 1 is the absolute lowest point in the trilogy and I'm including the star child here. Ah man. That poo poo cracked me up the first time and it cracks me up now. Makes me think of Leon from Curb telling Larry to leave trash on the floor.
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# ? Feb 8, 2021 20:13 |
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Saren raging at the news that Shepard accessed the beacon like a kid who just lost a fighting game match is the most realistic scene in ME1.
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# ? Feb 8, 2021 20:24 |
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The Klowner posted:Can someone explain in detail the issue with how the geth and/or quarians are portrayed? I remember feeling it was pretty consistent across all the games but I haven't played them in years In 1, the Geth are unknown and violent. In 2, you find out that there are two factions: the bad Geth and the neutral Geth. In 3, the Geth are all blameless children who never did anything wrong in their life. Every thing they do is only ever in reaction to something else. They took hardware upgrades from the Reapers because the Quarians started a war. Every time they're portrayed by the story, they're always blameless innocents. Literally at one point, despite being artificial intelligences capable of accessing the sum total of knowledge, one Geth in a flashback doesn't understand "why his creator stopped moving." The Quarians in 2 are assholes, but you can understand why they're doing what they do. In 3 they're ambitious war hawks who attack and blow up a ship that one of their leaders and Shepard are currently on board. You tell them to flee and get their civilians to safety, and they refuse to do it and instead start sacrificing ships in a fight. They exist just to give the story artificially heightened stakes because every interaction you have with them will have them doing something needlessly and pointlessly stupid, often to the point of being self-sabotaging.
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# ? Feb 8, 2021 20:31 |
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SettingSun posted:Saren raging at the news that Shepard accessed the beacon like a kid who just lost a fighting game match is the most realistic scene in ME1. speaking as a gamer it was a very relatable moment for me. in that moment i knew precisely how he felt (feels bad man)
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# ? Feb 8, 2021 20:31 |
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exquisite tea posted:Saren kicking around a trash can inside Sovereign screaming RAAARGH! ARRGHHA! in Mass Effect 1 is the absolute lowest point in the trilogy and I'm including the star child here. i always kinda assumed that was a mix of the old trope of "always in control bad guy loses it" and a hint of "sovereign taking control of him" but yeah its dumb as poo poo.
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# ? Feb 8, 2021 20:32 |
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DoubleNegative posted:In 1, the Geth are unknown and violent. In 2, you find out that there are two factions: the bad Geth and the neutral Geth. In 3, the Geth are all blameless children who never did anything wrong in their life. Every thing they do is only ever in reaction to something else. They took hardware upgrades from the Reapers because the Quarians started a war. Every time they're portrayed by the story, they're always blameless innocents. Literally at one point, despite being artificial intelligences capable of accessing the sum total of knowledge, one Geth in a flashback doesn't understand "why his creator stopped moving." more than that, the geth in ME2 come off as truly alien in a way that makes the player (and shepard) struggle with how to apply traditional morality to decisions surrounding them. they consist of trillions of runtime processes that download themselves into the scary clanky robots you fight and then bounce back out to the nearest server or satellite bank if those shells become inoperable, constantly talking with each other and growing more sophisticated all the while. legion himself comes across as recognizably sapient because the geth shoved so many of themselves into his shell that they're finally able to boot TalkLikeHuman.exe. remember legion's introduction, when it took the poor guy/guys/geth several minutes of painstaking explanation just to answer the question "who are you," because the geth's concept of sapience is so different from the rest of the galaxy the difference between "bad" and "neutral" geth isn't seen by legion as a question of morality, but as a simple point of logical ambiguity like whether 2 + 2 = 4 or 1 + 3 = 4, which later spiraled into a wholly different decision-making process and outlook on current affairs. legion is troubled by how that schism between the two factions arose, but if you bring the "bad" faction in line with the others by overwriting their processes, he doesn't view it as brainwashing, just correcting that initial ambiguity. it's one of the few missions where shepard/the player feels like they're playing by a completely different set of moral standards then ME3 comes along and wipes all that away. the geth were put-upon robot children and the best solution for all of them is to make them "individuals," which ruins the basis of their character from the last game - and pointlessly so, because ME2 never portrayed their original nature as particularly immoral or vulnerable. it was just a failure of imagination compared to the concepts of ME2 Oxxidation fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Feb 8, 2021 |
# ? Feb 8, 2021 20:42 |
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The Klowner posted:Can someone explain in detail the issue with how the geth and/or quarians are portrayed? I remember feeling it was pretty consistent across all the games but I haven't played them in years DoubleNegative posted:In 1, the Geth are unknown and violent. In 2, you find out that there are two factions: the bad Geth and the neutral Geth. In 3, the Geth are all blameless children who never did anything wrong in their life. Every thing they do is only ever in reaction to something else. They took hardware upgrades from the Reapers because the Quarians started a war. Every time they're portrayed by the story, they're always blameless innocents. Literally at one point, despite being artificial intelligences capable of accessing the sum total of knowledge, one Geth in a flashback doesn't understand "why his creator stopped moving." To add to this, the nature of the Geth themselves changes, which is the part I find most disappointing. In ME1, they're self-aware robots who hate organics because said organics tried to wipe them out when they started asking In ME2, the Geth are sentient computer programs, some of which live in the flashlight-headed robot platforms we know and love, but most of which live in giant servers. They acquire unique experiences and perspectives while running around in robot bodies which get shared with everyone else when they go back to the collective. As a result, they don't really have a concept of individuality and iirc Legion says that the "does this unit have a soul" stuff was essentially the teething troubles of a newborn race, and they're pretty cool with what they are now. Most of the Geth want to chill out and build a Dyson sphere around Rannoch, but a minority worship the Reapers because of a difference in their source code. In ME3 the Geth are sentient robots who e;f,b, Oxxidation said it better, also didn't there used to be a "lots of speculation" smiley Gato fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Feb 8, 2021 |
# ? Feb 8, 2021 20:45 |
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Lt. Danger posted:in turn Bioware aren't all that egregious - even Obsidian got in on the gaming-journalism-stunt-casting with the New Vegas DLCs It's been years since I played FNV, who are we talking about here?
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# ? Feb 8, 2021 20:48 |
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Gato posted:To add to this, the nature of the Geth themselves changes, which is the part I find most disappointing. In ME1, they're self-aware robots who hate organics because said organics tried to wipe them out when they started asking i sorta assumed 3s changes were because of legions expirences and reports going back to the collective and another split between "go with reapers" or "go with organics" but than they dumbed it down because
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# ? Feb 8, 2021 20:54 |
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DoubleNegative posted:In 1, the Geth are unknown and violent. In 2, you find out that there are two factions: the bad Geth and the neutral Geth. In 3, the Geth are all blameless children who never did anything wrong in their life. Every thing they do is only ever in reaction to something else. They took hardware upgrades from the Reapers because the Quarians started a war. Every time they're portrayed by the story, they're always blameless innocents. Literally at one point, despite being artificial intelligences capable of accessing the sum total of knowledge, one Geth in a flashback doesn't understand "why his creator stopped moving." yeah. the quarians are the doctor frankensteins who hosed around and found out and now after like 200 plus years and an entire cultural reshift and poo poo.
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# ? Feb 8, 2021 21:01 |
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Gato posted:
Legion actually talks about this in Mass Effect 2 - The heretic Geth want to accept the Reaper's upgrades (they're non-specific as to what those upgrades are however) while the main Geth want to advance along their own lines and choose their own fate. The Quarians getting some new type of weapon that attacks the Geth (again, mentioned in 2) is what causes the main Geth to change their minds and more or less join the reapers in 3. The reapers obviously get an army of even more obedient slaves out of it. It's like asking why they make husks, they need foot soldiers so they are not vulnerable.
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# ? Feb 8, 2021 21:01 |
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DourCricket posted:Legion actually talks about this in Mass Effect 2 - The heretic Geth want to accept the Reaper's upgrades (they're non-specific as to what those upgrades are however) while the main Geth want to advance along their own lines and choose their own fate. The Quarians getting some new type of weapon that attacks the Geth (again, mentioned in 2) is what causes the main Geth to change their minds and more or less join the reapers in 3. yeah, i think the geth-qurian thing isnt "that" bad in 3 but its way too dumbed down and poo poo.
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# ? Feb 8, 2021 21:05 |
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Dapper_Swindler posted:yeah, i think the geth-qurian thing isnt "that" bad in 3 but its way too dumbed down and poo poo. Yes, they very clearly started the ME3 design doc with
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# ? Feb 8, 2021 21:23 |
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Also the upgrade that turns them into real boys is treated as a good thing despite the fact that it was made by the reapers. Who, if you will recall, previously made the Geth into loyal servants by introducing subtle rounding errors into their software. But apparently the update that fundamentally changes how the geth work is a-okay and doesn’t include any reaper indoctrination stuff.
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# ? Feb 8, 2021 21:23 |
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Mass Effect was the only good game in the series
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# ? Feb 8, 2021 21:25 |
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Arglebargle III posted:Mass Effect was the only good game in the series it was bad, actually
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# ? Feb 8, 2021 21:36 |
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DourCricket posted:Legion actually talks about this in Mass Effect 2 - The heretic Geth want to accept the Reaper's upgrades (they're non-specific as to what those upgrades are however) while the main Geth want to advance along their own lines and choose their own fate. The Quarians getting some new type of weapon that attacks the Geth (again, mentioned in 2) is what causes the main Geth to change their minds and more or less join the reapers in 3. But if they can rewrite the Geth at will to the extent of making them fully sentient beings, why do they need the Geth's consent to enslave them? Why are they waiting for the robots to think really hard about whether they want to be real boys? The Reapers apparently have a button they can push to effortlessly destroy the biggest organic fleet in the Galaxy but they're just going to wait until the enemy is literally inside their base before doing anything about it? The whole thing makes no sense, because the Reapers don't need to be in the Rannoch plotline at all except that it's Act 2 and we need to remind people they're around. You're right that the stuff in ME2 does vaguely allow for what happens in ME3, but like Oxxidation said it's such a waste of a really interesting concept for an alien lifeform, and you could have taken it in so many other directions. e: also the thing about the Quarians having new weapons made me remember how they handwaved away all the outcomes from the trial, one of ME2's best quests Gato fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Feb 8, 2021 |
# ? Feb 8, 2021 21:38 |
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Imagine if there was a subplot where the reapers were giving away brain implants to a Cerberus cell that lets them fight better, and the conclusion of the plotline was saying “Great, the reapers built enough brain implants for everyone! Let’s give a brain implant to every single human in the alliance!” That’s the geth plotline.
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# ? Feb 8, 2021 21:45 |
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The cause and resolution of the Geth stuff in and of themselves nowhere near as bad as the loving pinnochio plot that got foisted on them after Patrick Weekes spent so much time making them cool and different in ME2. Seriously the ME2 Geth were loving awesome and had so much potential from a writing standpoint But nope, gotta I Robot this poo poo once more
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# ? Feb 8, 2021 22:00 |
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DourCricket posted:Yes, they very clearly started the ME3 design doc with yeah alot of mass effects 3 issues were also just games at the time. everything was super dumbed down and conflicts were made simpler/dumber and EA wanted it to be a big gently caress off action game too. the problem is also what you infered, the put mac walters dumb transhumanism theme at the heart of it instead of "hey we need to get past our grudges and our mistakes and try to work together and save our future from the sins of the past". instead its "lol hat glows green". you can tell they were planning on going other places with the story in 2 but then that got rewritten in 2 and 3. some plot holes i am willing to overlook like the various ones with cerberus because its pretty easy to fill in the blanks with various stuff. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Feb 8, 2021 |
# ? Feb 8, 2021 22:05 |
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Snake Maze posted:Imagine if there was a subplot where the reapers were giving away brain implants to a Cerberus cell that lets them fight better, and the conclusion of the plotline was saying “Great, the reapers built enough brain implants for everyone! Let’s give a brain implant to every single human in the alliance!” That's also the Synthasis ending in a nutshell
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# ? Feb 8, 2021 22:55 |
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The ME2 geth were so cool as well. Are they sentient? Who knows! They're a billion billion fairly dumb programs that network and network until they're discussing philosophy and getting sentimental over Shep's armour and worshipping reapers. And then those programe might not even stay together but instead upload to a hundred different geth servers never to speak again. While Legion seemed to be getting attatched to itself as an identity, there was every chance that after ME2 it would just go home and dissolve itself back into the collective and not really care. If the human mind is like a solid, geth are a liquid. And the ME3 comes and says "no, they don't have ~~souls~~, unless they get magic Reaper Code that turns them into Just A Dude in a robot body".
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# ? Feb 8, 2021 23:18 |
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cyclical posted:It's been years since I played FNV, who are we talking about here? Old World Blues - Christine and the talking stealth suit were voiced by some gaming journalist lady Psycho Landlord posted:The cause and resolution of the Geth stuff in and of themselves nowhere near as bad as the loving pinnochio plot that got foisted on them after Patrick Weekes spent so much time making them cool and different in ME2. Chris L'Etoile - Patrick Weekes wrote Mordin in both games now personally say what you like about Rannoch, but I reckon Tuchanka is far worse. at least Rannoch commits to the bit
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# ? Feb 8, 2021 23:34 |
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*Jack and shepherd peer pressuring legion into smoking weed*
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# ? Feb 8, 2021 23:36 |
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Missionary Positron posted:it was bad, actually no u
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# ? Feb 8, 2021 23:48 |
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Lt. Danger posted:Old World Blues - Christine and the talking stealth suit were voiced by some gaming journalist lady i thought Tuchanka was fine, if a little too cleanly solved but that only happens if you made all the right choices in the trilogy and did that bomb quest.
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# ? Feb 9, 2021 00:10 |
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I definitely would never advocate for letting wrex die in me1 but I almost think the worst case scenario tuchanka ending where you convince mordin to sabotage the cure because wreav is a dipshit and eve is dead is the most interesting one from a perspective of a sequel to ME3
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# ? Feb 9, 2021 00:41 |
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Of course if there was never a followup then the “happy” ending is the most satisfying albeit kinda trite
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# ? Feb 9, 2021 00:42 |
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# ? Apr 16, 2024 05:44 |
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I guess you could say this is turning out to be a uhhh real half rear end remaster
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# ? Feb 9, 2021 02:06 |