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Jay R Ferguson owns
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Feb 9, 2021 00:49
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Tace Vim posted:rewatching S3 ATM, and have noticed that despite the show often being described as a drama//thriller, it's also as funny as hell. funnier than most comedy shows IMO people are under a lot of stress, Bradley
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Feb 9, 2021 01:15
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I've been muttering that line to myself A LOT
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Feb 9, 2021 07:13
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Pattonesque posted:people are under a lot of stress, Bradley OMG just saw that scene on my re-watch. so hilarious
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Feb 9, 2021 09:46
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reminded me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiLza4B6XhA
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Feb 9, 2021 09:54
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Tace Vim posted:reminded me of this: Kinda mad they never redid this scene in Supernatural.
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Feb 9, 2021 10:45
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cwt53VZcLRk
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Feb 10, 2021 08:00
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Do you ever just get down on your knees and thank god that you know me and have access to my dementia? (That was really well done, drat)
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Feb 10, 2021 20:11
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happy birthday laura dern 
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Feb 10, 2021 21:13
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I'm watching Twin Peaks for the first time, and I've just finished up with season 1 (I think I watched five episodes in one day,) and I dunno, maybe it'll come down the line, but I was disappointed by the "killer" reveal. I know Lynch said he didn't want to reveal who the killer was, and I read that after the first episode, but it does seem like in attempting to give logic to what was happening they couldn't keep the mystery immediate and had to add new elements. Another factor is True Detective (S1) came out almost thirty years later, and that seemed to go the opposite with ramping up the weirdness as it went on. It's like a story-telling trick was discovered or given permission to happen between Twin Peaks and "modern" prestige dramas. I'm not too sure if this a trick on me, more that it stayed true to what was happening with television at the time. The filming it like a soap opera, and even the in-show soap opera all highlight how Twin Peaks needs to follow that path. I'm ready to go into Season 2, now, but I'm not sure what I'll make of it with people putting out charts and graphs about which episodes are good and which are not. The start of Season 1 was amazing, but I feel a little like I've missed its place in time, and a worsening show might not hold up.
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Feb 16, 2021 18:38
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Season 2 is plenty good for quite a while and then ends strongly. Trust me, you're gonna want to stick with it.
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Feb 16, 2021 18:46
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Mrenda posted:I'm watching Twin Peaks for the first time, and I've just finished up with season 1 (I think I watched five episodes in one day,) and I dunno, maybe it'll come down the line, but I was disappointed by the "killer" reveal. I know Lynch said he didn't want to reveal who the killer was, and I read that after the first episode, but it does seem like in attempting to give logic to what was happening they couldn't keep the mystery immediate and had to add new elements. Another factor is True Detective (S1) came out almost thirty years later, and that seemed to go the opposite with ramping up the weirdness as it went on. It's like a story-telling trick was discovered or given permission to happen between Twin Peaks and "modern" prestige dramas. I'm not too sure if this a trick on me, more that it stayed true to what was happening with television at the time. The filming it like a soap opera, and even the in-show soap opera all highlight how Twin Peaks needs to follow that path. I was told that season 2 wasn't as good before viewing and I still really enjoyed the entire season on my first viewing. The episode ranking charts are all bullshit. I would recommend going in with as little outside information/opinion as possible and develop your own ideas about the show in its entirety (the first two seasons -> the movie -> the third season) before reading anything online about it.
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Feb 16, 2021 18:54
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Mrenda posted:Another factor is True Detective (S1) came out almost thirty years later, and that seemed to go the opposite with ramping up the weirdness as it went on. It's like a story-telling trick was discovered or given permission to happen between Twin Peaks and "modern" prestige dramas. I'm not too sure if this a trick on me, more that it stayed true to what was happening with television at the time. The filming it like a soap opera, and even the in-show soap opera all highlight how Twin Peaks needs to follow that path. What you are touching on is why Twin Peaks is so beloved. True Detective would not exist without Twin Peaks. Can you imagine True Detective airing on TV next to friends? Twin Peaks changed TV forever. Despite that, it still holds up. Also, it's going to get stranger, don't assume it won't. The mystery is still there, it only goes deeper, and the movie makes the killer reveal much more satisfying.
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Feb 16, 2021 19:02
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I'm glad the episode ranking charts are rubbish. I really did enjoy the episodes I binged, getting to the end of one, trying to sleep then thinking, "Nah, I'll watch another." And it wasn't because each episode ended on a cliffhanger, it was because the world was so rich and tinged with just enough off-kilter touches that it really suited lying in bed at 3am, almost as a reflection.
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Feb 16, 2021 19:08
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A friend had an interesting perspective, that James has always been cool. Essentially, James was on the only teenage boy that wasn't an abuser somehow. He was a victim of abuse by both Laura and Beverly, and you could even argue the cousin and Donna. Sure was a mopey sad gently caress, but he never took it out on anyone else. He was always cool, despite all the horribly uncool things that happened to him. One of the only teens in the story to break the cycle.
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Feb 16, 2021 19:09
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james rules
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Feb 16, 2021 19:18
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There are plenty of episodes in season 2 that are just as good, or better, than most of the season 1 eps.
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Feb 16, 2021 19:23
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The first few eps of season 2 might be a better run than season 1 tbh
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Feb 16, 2021 19:27
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Hell the best episodes of the original run aren’t until season 2, imo (episodes 14 and 29).
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Feb 16, 2021 19:47
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I've just watched the first twenty five minutes of the first episode of season 2, and it's better than I was expecting. I think I am calmed. One thing I will say (Season 1 Spoilers) about the underlying horror/darkness and the hints at the reason given around it, the weird brotherhood thing talks about the woods/forest being home to an old darkness, and the hotel and all of Horne's offices and rooms are top to bottom made of wood, unlike a lot of the other places. It's like he's literally brought the forest around him.
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Feb 16, 2021 19:58
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Mrenda posted:I've just watched the first twenty five minutes of the first episode of season 2, and it's better than I was expecting. I think I am calmed. Ah, very perceptive of you. And do you recall the name of the forested area that Ben Horne and other commercial interests are trying to exploit? GHOSTWOOD. Can we think of any other instances of "haunted wood" on the show?  Not that any of this means anything specific, or necessarily will be explored either directly or indirectly; to be honest I can't even really remember. I love watching people discover this stuff, and figure it out. It never really gets old, for me.
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Feb 16, 2021 20:20
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I avoided season 2 for a long time because of its reputation and when I finally watched it I was pleased to discover that a good 3/4 of the season ranges from "enjoyable" to "literally some of the best television of all time." the bad episodes get pretty rough but they still have their moments
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Feb 16, 2021 20:21
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Mrenda posted:I've just watched the first twenty five minutes of the first episode of season 2, and it's better than I was expecting. I think I am calmed. You are making very good observations about the show. Trust your instincts and enjoy the ride.
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Feb 16, 2021 20:57
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Mrenda posted:I'm watching Twin Peaks for the first time, and I've just finished up with season 1 (I think I watched five episodes in one day,) and I dunno, maybe it'll come down the line, but I was disappointed by the "killer" reveal. I know Lynch said he didn't want to reveal who the killer was, and I read that after the first episode, but it does seem like in attempting to give logic to what was happening they couldn't keep the mystery immediate and had to add new elements. Another factor is True Detective (S1) came out almost thirty years later, and that seemed to go the opposite with ramping up the weirdness as it went on. It's like a story-telling trick was discovered or given permission to happen between Twin Peaks and "modern" prestige dramas. I'm not too sure if this a trick on me, more that it stayed true to what was happening with television at the time. The filming it like a soap opera, and even the in-show soap opera all highlight how Twin Peaks needs to follow that path. You mean that True Detective started out leaving open some weird Lovecraft poo poo and ended up being about regular crime and Twin Peaks is hitting you with magic dreams and poo poo after a set-up for a regular murder investigation? Or you mean that they each get weirder in their own way as they go on?
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Feb 16, 2021 23:29
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:You mean that True Detective started out leaving open some weird Lovecraft poo poo and ended up being about regular crime and Twin Peaks is hitting you with magic dreams and poo poo after a set-up for a regular murder investigation? Or you mean that they each get weirder in their own way as they go on? I never thought True Detective was "Lovecraft poo poo" and I would hope no-one watching Twin Peaks thinks it's "magic dreams." I mean that Twin Peaks S1 ended on a regular ol' solving of a crime (remember I hadn't started S2) and True Detective had the weird poo poo being the solving of the crime. Season 1 of Twin Peaks felt the weird poo poo was to get you to an end point, True Detective was about the weird poo poo being part of your life (as it was for some of the characters.) My opinion has now changed, seeing the first episode of S2 of Twin Peaks, but, as I said, David Lynch was under pressure to give the end of S1 a "proper" ending, and that's the pressure I saw brought to bear on my ending with S1. You having watched everything and knowing where it's going, while I'm literally posting along the way means I didn't have the benefit of them re-opening the next season with even weirder stuff. I thought there'd be a clean break, with Lynch having done what the network asked of him. Read to the end of the post to see my point, but True Detective I very much felt was hallucinations, and the journey, "along the way," even if it's explicable. I think Twin Peaks, at some level, is also explicable, just maybe not in "our world" explicable. So, yeah, they're both weirdness going their own way, but True Detective didn't abandon it (by its end) like I thought Twin Peaks did (by the end of S1.) But, having watched Episode 1 of Season 2, some stuff that caught me, much like I had with some of Season 1, but I'll post it here because posting is how you have fun... First off, growth of hair. Or at least changes. Leland Palmer's hair turning white was, or at least I thought, going to be a big "sign" for the audience. Then they go and make it completely obvious with the Be Happy song. Then Donna's hair has mysteriously grown longer, closer to Laura and Maddy's and they're setting up a dichotomy with Maddy's wearing of/breaking the glasses as well as Donna. This is really pushed home with James's scene in the jail with Donna smoking. Continuing on from that point in the season two opener, the drinks look like a big deal. Along with that there's all the cherry and huckleberry pies, and milk, coffee, wine, water, and cherry cola. I feel Donna's prediction is somewhat resolved by the end of the episode where some people are shown drinking wine, one person milk, and Donna's cup is filled with "black coffee." This is even more to the point where she said she drank it with cream and sugar in season 1. Donna is dealing with the draw of the darkness that Laura dealt with, getting closer to black coffee. The divide, while not going all out for cherry cola (cherries and sex?) or alcohol. She likes black coffee much like Cooper does, but he keeps milk for sleeping, something he offered to Audrey. Going even further than that something I noticed about what's happening in the background of some outdoor shots, and what I feel is the mid-way tension point of all that's happening in Twin Peaks... The Double R always has trucks hauling cut trees drive past it when we see the outside shot of it. I get the feeling it's the pivot of the town, where the darkness of the woods, and interfering with it, can meet a balance of a harmonious (rural/small town?) life. And where people rise and fall. Especially with Norma and her husband, and Norma and Ed, and Ed and Nadine. Something I don't think that needs to be spoilered is the musical cues for "love." It's absolutely perfect. And moving on from that cue one specific other cue Audrey's, which is the dream like one she dances to, and I think she's going to be the balance between the Horne's destruction, darkness and evil (her father being sex, and her uncle's gluttony/always talking about food and consumption, excess consumption, even.) Where she's the mystical nature of what they're engaging with. Ed talking about living with consequence is a big thing, and how your actions have effects, but I think Cooper is the real fulcrum/focal point for the audience with his willingness to engage with the mystical aspects, much like the viewer should in their life when it comes to cause and effect, in realising there's far more "beyond" us we need to account for in our actions. It was also really cool in the scene where they're laying out what happens where Deputy Johnson breaks up and the audience is almost directly addressed into not making presumptions or assumptions in trying to figure things out and treating it all like a game or something to engage with — exactly what I'm doing now — that it's a real situation for people, not something to poke and prod, and so for the show to lay out and for you to be affected by... "Albert Rozerfeld. I don't like the way you talk smart about Sheriff Truman or anybody! You just shut your mouth." FFS guys, stop talking smart! Haha. And based entirely on that scene, a wild guess that's definitely over-reading, I'd say Deputy Johnson is either playing the viewer's own stupidity, or has a bigger role to play elsewhere, and "Agent Rozerfeld" was wrong about almost everything he said while Cooper was correct. I think, if you've watched the series and read all my spoilers, you can see I'm absolutely loving hooked. And these are only a small few of the things I've been thinking as I watched the S02E01. There's details everywhere that make your mind *ping.* This legitimately has the quality of some of the best books I've read, which very few TV shows have. And if we go back to the True Detective comparison, that just brought me along for the magical ride (which is partly what I was talking about, it left feeling a real mystical-ness of it even when it resolved, unlike the end of TP S1.) Twin Peaks makes me engage with the mystical-ness, which is a far more active involvement as you'd find with A.) Books, but B.) Actual magic.
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Feb 17, 2021 01:01
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I for one have a huge grin after reading your posts and am so excited for you to keep going.
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Feb 17, 2021 01:14
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That post rules. I’m excited to hear more of your thoughts as you progress through the show!
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Feb 17, 2021 01:16
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Definitely one of those  posts.
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Feb 17, 2021 01:17
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You’re probably going to really enjoy season 3 when you get to it.
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Feb 17, 2021 01:18
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the comparison to true detective is funny to me because I also saw TD s1 first and thought it was awesome. but after watching all of TP, TD feels so amateurish in hindsight. nicky pizza and cary fukanawa created a fantastic show but David lynch and Mark frost changed the course of history.
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Feb 17, 2021 01:18
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To me, it's the "actual magic" of Twin Peaks that raises it above its peers, to me, moreso than anything else. In Lynch's best work, it feels like he taps into a sort of otherworldly magic, conveyed through recorded video and audio, that is very rare in reality and extremely difficult to capture intentionally. For instance, I recently watched the documentary about the Cecil Hotel and the disappearance of Elisa Lam. As flawed as the documentary itself is, I was struck while viewing the elevator footage how much it reminded me of something that David Lynch might have intentionally shot, especially with his love of fixed perspectives and static shots in lieu of using dollies or zooms. edit: And of course I very much enjoyed the infectious energy of Mrenda's post, very tough not to want to go back and rewatch it after reading that! I am trying to get my current roommates interested in watching it. kaworu fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Feb 17, 2021 |
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Feb 17, 2021 01:37
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 Mrenda The things you are touching on are really cool. Many of them are very real connections you are making and cluing into some certain foreshadowing. I Don't want to get any more specific, but keep it up. Your posts are fun to read.
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Feb 17, 2021 01:41
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Mrenda posted:I've just watched the first twenty five minutes of the first episode of season 2, and it's better than I was expecting. I think I am calmed. Twin Peaks (the town) is based around the logging industry too. People made their fortunes on clearcutting the trees, processing the dead trees into lumber, and shipping that out via the railroad. The Double R Diner has it's history in servicing the employees of the timber industry and connected businesses. The Great Northern is the pinnacle of that as you've noted. If the trees have spirits, Ben Horne might as well be Skeletor sitting on a throne of bones. edit. Whoops, didn't see the following post that touched on the Double R already. Maarak fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Feb 17, 2021 |
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Feb 17, 2021 03:03
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RR actually means “Ruddy Redwoods”
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Feb 17, 2021 03:06
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I'm probably going to be binge-ing this all night while I do stuff around the house, I dunno if I'll post about every episode, at some point I'll get bored, or I lie down in bed and watch three episodes in a row. I'll just post up some of the things that occur to me, because if I was to post everything I'd be dissecting every little detail of literally everything that happens because this show is loving amazing and an ever so small trip into the slight madness of associative semiotic thinking. Spoilers for Episode 2 of Season 2. I loved the barbershop quartet right as episode 2 began, as they’re recounting what happened. In a kind of “The network gave us a haircut, and here’s all the new poo poo we have to do... Starting... Now...” And then it goes to Meals on Wheels, and the mini Dale Cooper doing magic, but going towards a spookier darkness, as hinted at by the music. I took your corn, I took your Dale Cooper. I put your corn back, you have your Dale Cooper back. The prison food is great as well. We saw all the people eating pie and drinking their happy drinks in Season 1 (whether they were "good" or "bad" drinks) and now we’re into the disadvantaged of Twin Peaks. Then there’s the “Which do we burn...” scene with the Hornes debating over the two ledgers from the mill. Which is amazing, I love how the show recounts what we’ve seen and just adds the twist, while also offering instruction, which in this case is, “You don’t know what’ll happen. There's at least two possibilities and you don't know which leads to what. Just sit back and enjoy the show you hickory sticks!” After that there’s the scene with the Major and the Log Lady, two actually mysterious people. And there’s a menu propped up in front of them showing some scenery from Twin Peaks, with the woods on it being on the side of the major, and the clearing on the side of the Log Lady! They’re the real story! They're the two sides of Twin Peaks! (Everyone is the real story, is the real story. Everyone gets something, at least the everyone we're shown, when the show is good and ready to show us.) After that we’re to another, “the real story,” which is the soap opera aspect of it. Making Deputy Johnson and Lucy Moran (I had to wiki her name) involved in their own show. It’s like the fly getting stuck in the glue-tape trap, then her picking him out of it, much like the viewer! My god this show is majestic! And now I’m told the name I forgot, the name of the group defending against darkness, the Bookhouse Boys! Things made of trees, to read, and get actual signs from: books! Maybe unlike TV, at least what the average viewer saw in 1990! Then we see Shelly and Bobby talking about changing the station, and making money, and going to sunny climes, we’re suddenly getting an attack clear through on TV networks. Now I get the feeling that the show is far more about giving the viewers what they do and don’t want, keeping the powers that be happy, writing, the raw mind, etc. And then the message from the gibberish “thursday night/friday morning when he was shot,” "We’re being renewed, the numbers in the gibberish were good, it had an effect." Then right after that a band appears on the show, like shows that had to feature musical acts. With voices that don’t seem like they’re the actual people’s voices. And Donna gets a call from someone who does give their name, and does talk to her (unlike the scene with Lucy,) and Maddy sees the spectre of TV viewership demands coming crawling for her. But Lynch is a writer/director, not an author, so it is very much within his wheelhouse to care about TV, just not in the way it was done. He has his own unique take on things, and it’s about elevating TV shows and films to the same level as books, so it has to be about something TV can do that books can’t. All in all, I have no idea where the show is going. The opener to Season 1 was just collecting all that happened and giving it a slightly different view for Season 2. But the second episode in Season 2 is about opening things up completely differently. I think it’s far truer to what Lynch wanted than the first season. And it’s about the divide between creation, thought, art, the mind, subconscious, desire, nature, all the while it’s also happening in making it a story/tv show. Twin Peaks is the Murder She Wrote joke, but a little bit more meta. Jessica Fletcher is a murderer that writes stories about her murders, Twin Peaks is a show/creation/artwork that creates murders to be a show, a soap opera that gives you drama and is thus a soap opera (not quite tautological if you look at it from within its place in art.) Why else would you have a scene where someone says, “I can't put you through unless I know your name,” when it’s just them saying that a few times and hanging up, we don't find out anything, then later we see someone call and give their name. (And not being able to put you through, I want to believe, is the media industry not give you a chance unless they know your name.) If there's an overarching theme, much like Tibet, and Buddhism, it's all about the points that divide things. Let's get Dale Cooper to Tibet, let's get TV back where it belongs (and gently caress the stuffy Bookhouse Boys, they have their uses, but they're not the future!) It makes me want to watch out for where things come in threes rather than twos, to upset that Buddhist view. To see who's the dividing point (which is just the mid-point things balance on.)
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Feb 17, 2021 03:10
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Oh the joys of discovering Twin Peaks for the first time Definitely keep posting your thoughts, Mrenda.
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Feb 17, 2021 03:28
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twin peaks as a metacommentary on TV was the topic of a recent four hour youtube video as it happens. I don't really agree but I do think it's an element of the lynchian pastiche for sure.
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Feb 17, 2021 03:31
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Loving these thoughts, especially the stuff about the Log Lady and the Major, two of my favorite characters (as is any two random pairing of characters you might be able to think of, to be fair).
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Feb 17, 2021 04:32
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Mrenda posted:(Everyone is the real story, is the real story. Everyone gets something, at least the everyone we're shown, when the show is good and ready to show us.) In order of recommended viewing Season 1 Season 2 Fire walk with me Mullholland Drive (optional, watch it with the understanding its thematically related to twin peaks) Season 3 eSporks fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Feb 17, 2021 |
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Feb 17, 2021 05:03
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Episode three of season two was a change of pace, and I think it was going back to the roots (haha) of the show. It feels less like it’s establishing anything and is just putting the show into a proper gear. There’s less televisual fantasy, but more story mysticality. So I wasn’t thinking of much for large parts other than letting things happen and letting me watch it, like with the “check in” sign in the background when Cooper met Horne, like they had to do a “check in” between the characters. And then there’s the person who I’m presuming was the same as, or involved with calling for Josie (entirely a racial presumption, and please don't forget Goon Face Blindness is a real illness (Hawk and Dick could be the same person? They could be opposite persons? if their interaction is anything to go by)), and the announcing of Josie's coming back. But mainly what I’m seeing again is the callback to the forest getting destroyed. When we meet Harold Smith I’m trying to think of how often we saw actual books in the show so far, like we see in his house, and it seems like it’s been rare (we do see Sheriff Truman with some books on the bookshelf in the station, and, again, the Bookhouse Boys, so there's something about knowledge there.) Later on this is tied to Smith having the diary of Laura Palmer. It seems like there’s a balance between nature and confining/controlling nature. Laura Palmer has pretty much entirely been described as wild, and she ended up dead. Some of the people controlling nature (or at least their agents) have died as well, so this is the idea about balance. No matter what you’re going to die, but it’s about achieving a balance in seeking out a life that gets you to where you want (Ed’s thing about consequences.) A big thing for me, this episode, is “the owls,” and Cooper’s “Talk to me.” We get the scene with Jacoby, who says what he saw the night of the strangulation/suffocation (don’t know why that differentiation is involved so far) as he’s undergoing hypnosis. As he’s about to reveal who he saw we cut to a mix of forest footage, then Donna then talking to Laura Palmer’s grave. We already know Leland killed Jacques Renaut, and that his hair changed colour as he did, so he’s somehow "possessed" by the spirit of the forest. Donna talks to Laura’s grave about sorting out things with James, who’s getting sort of involved with Maddy, Maddy who spills to Leland, who says something like, “Going back to the past would be nice, but that can’t happen because people keep interfering,” and also how the summers by Pearl Lake were actually nice. If he is possessed by the forest in some way, then Bob (and this is just “the show is not what it appears”) is somehow a “friend” of the forest, or at least some form of balance between nature/wilderness and progress/control (we saw him screaming at the death, but not actually killing, etc..) And the owls (who were in the cut when we came to Donna at Laura’s grave) are the one’s influencing things. They’re somehow, “Knowledge.” And by offering knowledge to both Laura's grave and the owls, and wishing on her dead friend, the owls—hearing Donna—get Leland/the Forest/Wilderness—who's influencing Maddy/the part of the story messing with James—arrested (not sure on this, he did go to kiss her first.) Going back to the Harold Smith part, he represents another form of knowledge, book knowledge, and the diary knowledge. So again there’s the battle between the wisdom of owls, and the knowledge of telling stories. Again, I think it’s all about balances between things. And for me, at the moment, owls aren’t just creatures “of” the forest, but creatures who “inhabit” the forest, and like their old stories of being wise, are knowledge of maintaining a balance. And people might not have learned that balance yet (except, of course, for Dale Cooper.) (Kind of weird thought that doesn't fit into the narrative of my post. Bob is Robertson, RBT, but Chabert or Chalbert also has RBT. And maybe the "forest" is pointing at one rather than the other. Maybe Bob is going for Chalberts rather Robertsons. Maybe there's something beyond the forest (the waterfall and water...) and the forest is to the water what the Bookhouse Boys are to the Hornes.) Maybe a lot of this is how we influence things without spoiling other things, how one thing has control over its neighbour, if it's in the right place. Jacoby obviously wants to be in Hawaii, but he's not there, why? Smith is "nature" in growing orchids, but he's doing it indoors, in an artificial climate, and so might be neighbours to one thing, but could also be out of place. I do, generally, think water is going to play a bigger part. The title is "Twin Peaks" not "Forest Hills" and a river naturally runs through a valley between mountains, carving the middle ground/easiest route to the ocean. We're seeing the peaks, but we have to flow with the water... Laura Palmer was washed up at the side of the lake. Every time we see the hotel we see the waterfall (big impressive thing) so the waterfall is the "knowledge"/divide between the Twin Peaks that are evident from high up in the story/far away, but we don't really see the water until we get close.
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Feb 17, 2021 05:15
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