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I really love the exchange between Pete and Trudy when he calls. He asks how the ladies from the Docents committee are, and she says "Since when do you care?" "Since I became HEAD OF ACCOUNTS!" I just love that he doesn't bother to deny that yeah, he doesn't really give a crap, BUT LISTEN TO MY NEWS!!
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Feb 9, 2021 18:04
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Jerusalem posted:Ken Cosgrove comes straight through Lane Pryce's door without even bothering to knock, not remotely intimidated or concerned about being summoned even if he does know about Burt Peterson's firing. Burt apologizes for interrupting his lunch but Ken shrugs it off, he just had a sandwich. He takes a seat without being offered one, openly pulling out a cigarette without bothering to check if that is an issue for Lane. He is the absolute opposite of Pete, which may be why Lane has called him in, as he tells him that Burt has left the Agency and for the first time, Ken shows a flicker of concern, should HE be worried? Not at all, promises Lane, in fact he's going to be the new Head of Accounts! Got a Burt/Pryce swap in this bit Fantastic writeup!
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Feb 9, 2021 18:05
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Random fact: the actress who plays Shelly in this episode also played a flight attendant in mid-00s classic Snakes on a Plane.
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Feb 9, 2021 18:07
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JethroMcB posted:Season 3 was when I started watching the show as it aired, and I remember settling in on a Sunday night with a glass of whiskey and that opening really throwing me for a loop - just so, so uncharacteristic of what had come before. Though a few details enter "How exactly did the housekeeper hear Kane say 'Rosebud' when he died?" territory, I do think what we're seeing is the fact of the matter, not a Draper fabrication. There's some clarification as the season goes along where he could have gotten the whole story. Yoshi Wins posted:I agree with you, Jerusalem, about the flashbacks in this episode being weird. They do help build Don's character, but it is kind of distracting that it's unclear how Don knows these things (or if he knows them). I mean it's pretty obvious that Don's power levels are so high he's unlocked the ability to see past events with perfect clarity. This power is going to be pivotal in Don's fight with the cunnilinctopus later this season.
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Feb 9, 2021 18:16
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Jerusalem posted:When Don says "limit your exposure" it isn't just a quiet show of support for his gay colleague, it's the identification of the only lesson he learned from season 2. Not to be faithful to his wife, not to stop lying and devote himself fully to being a good husband and father. The lesson he learned was,"Just do it out of town with people who can't eventually tie back to Betty." Anna told him he can change, and he has... but not for the better. He's just been smarter about covering up what he does, because why would he stop when he can get what he wants otherwise. Don Draper, a man famous for learning lessons.
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Feb 9, 2021 18:31
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Listen, we all know the only way to meaningfully grow is to tell Hershey executives that you grew up in a whorehouse.
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Feb 9, 2021 19:31
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The Klowner posted:I mean it's pretty obvious that Don's power levels are so high he's unlocked the ability to see past events with perfect clarity. This power is going to be pivotal in Don's fight with the cunnilinctopus later this season. Subber's Note: Don mastered the Five Magicks before his showdown with David Ogilvy in the Lucky STIRKE 19:63 Love One An/OTHER OVA, which takes place between Seasons 2 and 3. It has yet to be released/translated stateside.
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Feb 9, 2021 19:33
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Did anyone else think this guy looked weirdly similar to Pete?
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Feb 9, 2021 19:47
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Yoshi Wins posted:Listen, we all know the only way to meaningfully grow is to tell Hershey executives that you grew up in a whorehouse. Hey, it works!
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Feb 9, 2021 22:23
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The gimmick of Jon Hamm walking through his own memories was used much better in Young Doctor’s Notebook, where Jon Hamn watches his younger self (Daniel Radcliffe) becoming an opium addict. It’s way funnier than it sounds, I promise!
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Feb 10, 2021 00:57
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JethroMcB posted:Absolutely; I also found it to be an extremely cheesy presentation. I like all the dream sequences, the best being "the best things in life are free"
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Feb 10, 2021 00:58
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wait a minute. Don sees Anna and Rachel Menken before they die, he sees Bert and his brother after they die, and he regularly has visions about, and even conversations with, his father and adoptive mother. He also has uncanny luck re: narrowly avoiding death (Korea, the car accident with Bobbie) or threats to his livelihood (the FBI investigation, Anna/Pete finding out about him). I was joking about superpowers before but I think there's enough evidence to suggest that Don is actually clairvoyant or otherwise supernaturally gifted. this is canon now. I won't be taking questions at this time
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Feb 10, 2021 01:37
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that’s just the Sopranos-esque supernatural stuff working its way in
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Feb 10, 2021 01:41
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von Metternich posted:The gimmick of Jon Hamm walking through his own memories was used much better in Young Doctor’s Notebook, where Jon Hamn watches his younger self (Daniel Radcliffe) becoming an opium addict. It’s way funnier than it sounds, I promise! As an aside, that reminded me of one of the greatest stories ever of a person playing themselves in just the most predictable way.
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Feb 10, 2021 03:58
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Yoshi Wins posted:Listen, we all know the only way to meaningfully grow is to tell Hershey executives that you grew up in a whorehouse. I'm so eagerly awaiting the reaction to this. It's bar none the best ten minutes if television ever created.
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Feb 10, 2021 04:01
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VinylonUnderground posted:As an aside, that reminded me of one of the greatest stories ever of a person playing themselves in just the most predictable way. opiOwned
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Feb 10, 2021 04:02
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Holy gently caress season 3 and 4 are so loving good. The other seasons are also good but this is definitely my favorite part of the show. I was itching for a rewatch when I found this thread and now I'm just reading it instead. I've been looking forward to your writeups as if they were new episodes of a show dropping, you're doing a fantastic job and I just wanted to say that I really appreciate it. The rest of the discussion in the thread is also top notch.
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Feb 10, 2021 11:28
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God I fucking love Diablo 3 gold, it even paid for this shitty title
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Devorum posted:Excellent post, as always. You've got a string of Peggy-Bettys early on. Ahhh, it keeps happening!  Fixed this now, thanks to you and the others who pointed out some other slips and mistakes, I think I got them all now. Annabel Pee posted:Did anyone else think this guy looked weirdly similar to Pete? Not just in looks but attitude too, he's smug, presumptuous and clearly has more than a few issues with women (to be fair, that makes him like most of the men in the show). Yoshi Wins posted:I really love the exchange between Pete and Trudy when he calls. He asks how the ladies from the Docents committee are, and she says "Since when do you care?" "Since I became HEAD OF ACCOUNTS!" I really love that scene, it is - sadly - one of the few times where the two of them are completely on the same page and both just delighted to be sharing the moment together. I feel so bad for her when she shows up to give him a present and yep there he is being a moody little poo poo again.
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Feb 10, 2021 11:41
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JethroMcB posted:Subber's Note: Don mastered the Five Magicks before his showdown with David Ogilvy in the Lucky STIRKE 19:63 Love One An/OTHER OVA, which takes place between Seasons 2 and 3. It has yet to be released/translated stateside. Let me just say that this might be the best post I've seen in a very long time.
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Feb 10, 2021 15:24
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GoutPatrol posted:I like all the dream sequences, the best being "the best things in life are free" Even Don strangling that woman and putting her body under the bed during his fever dream? I think I'd classify most of the dream sequences I don't care for as "Clever, if poorly executed," but that's the one that always jumps out at me as just poorly conceived. Sash! posted:Let me just say that this might be the best post I've seen in a very long time. I thank The Klowner for getting the whole "Mad Men as Anime" ball rolling, which is a concept that delights me to no end
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Feb 10, 2021 16:29
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I really like the restaurant scene in this episode. It's fun to see Sal play off of Don in their game. The juxtaposition of their respective (attempted) infidelities is also interesting from a moral perspective.
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Feb 10, 2021 16:35
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Is it morally justified for a man to cheat on his wife if he's gay? Can he be blamed? If it's a matter of context, what is the limit? For example, if there's a difference for gays in America 1963 versus 2021, what year is the inflection point?
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Feb 10, 2021 16:44
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The Klowner posted:Is it morally justified for a man to cheat on his wife if he's gay? Can he be blamed? If it's a matter of context, what is the limit? For example, if there's a difference for gays in America 1963 versus 2021, what year is the inflection point? I don't think you can claim it is morally justified, since he is hurting Kitty and she deserves no blame for the situation. It definitely is more complicated, and I think trying to assign an inflection point is a fool's errand.
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Feb 10, 2021 16:56
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JethroMcB posted:Subber's Note: Don mastered the Five Magicks before his showdown with David Ogilvy in the Lucky STIRKE 19:63 Love One An/OTHER OVA, which takes place between Seasons 2 and 3. It has yet to be released/translated stateside. This is art. And I want to watch it.
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Feb 10, 2021 17:22
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The Klowner posted:Is it morally justified for a man to cheat on his wife if he's gay? Can he be blamed? If it's a matter of context, what is the limit? For example, if there's a difference for gays in America 1963 versus 2021, what year is the inflection point? It's immoral to have a beard that doesn't know that they're a beard, that's for sure Spoilered just in case, have we done Patio yet?
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Feb 10, 2021 17:31
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BrotherJayne posted:It's immoral to have a beard that doesn't know that they're a beard, that's for sure No, that's coming up in 3 episodes during "The Arrangements." Sarah Drew does an incredible job of conveying Kitty's dawning realization of why Sal hasn't been "tending to" her.
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Feb 10, 2021 17:40
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The Klowner posted:Is it morally justified for a man to cheat on his wife if he's gay? Can he be blamed? If it's a matter of context, what is the limit? For example, if there's a difference for gays in America 1963 versus 2021, what year is the inflection point? It's hard to pick a time, but I'd probably go with June 25th, 1978. The Gay Freedom Day Parade and Milk's rallying cry of "You must come out!" Without mass action, staying in the closet is just survival (still is in many places). Nine years after Stonewall, so there is plenty of momentum so the Johnny-come-latelies no longer have an excuse. If you wanted to go with something negative rather than positive, you could pick some time in 1981/1982 when GRIDS/Gay Cancer exploded into the public consciousness. At that point MSMs maintaining a lavender marriage would be a health threat to their wives.
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Feb 10, 2021 19:05
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this is the season you want to start paying attention to Pete’s hairline, Jerusalem
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Feb 10, 2021 23:39
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Truly a profound metaphor for the inevitability of change.
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Feb 10, 2021 23:45
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Ungratek posted:I don't think you can claim it is morally justified, since he is hurting Kitty and she deserves no blame for the situation. VinylonUnderground posted:It's hard to pick a time, but I'd probably go with June 25th, 1978. The Gay Freedom Day Parade and Milk's rallying cry of "You must come out!" Without mass action, staying in the closet is just survival (still is in many places). Nine years after Stonewall, so there is plenty of momentum so the Johnny-come-latelies no longer have an excuse. If you wanted to go with something negative rather than positive, you could pick some time in 1981/1982 when GRIDS/Gay Cancer exploded into the public consciousness. At that point MSMs maintaining a lavender marriage would be a health threat to their wives. Indeed. I think I remember why I had you ignored, Shbobdb.
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Feb 11, 2021 07:19
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JethroMcB posted:Even Don strangling that woman and putting her body under the bed during his fever dream? I think I'd classify most of the dream sequences I don't care for as "Clever, if poorly executed," but that's the one that always jumps out at me as just poorly conceived. ...well I forgot about that one.
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Feb 11, 2021 08:00
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McSpanky posted:Indeed. I think I remember why I had you ignored, Shbobdb. The button is right there buddy, nobody is stopping you. It's better than posting about posters, which is some really tired poo poo.
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Feb 11, 2021 08:16
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How much better is the average TV viewing experience for someone who just watches it on the surface level, as opposed to someone who analyses each metaphor and deep dives into the character development? I am one of those people who has trouble keeping up with who is who, so I am always impressed when people are able to suss out the subtle nuances of each and every episode. Is this a skill that can be learned? For example, when I was watching this show, I always forgot which side characters did what, and I'd often have to look up an episode recap to get caught up. It'd be nice if I didn't have to do that.
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Feb 11, 2021 17:01
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Bioshuffle posted:How much better is the average TV viewing experience for someone who just watches it on the surface level, as opposed to someone who analyses each metaphor and deep dives into the character development? I was an English major so I've been trained to look for that kind of stuff. Even though I'm kind of half-watching it in a second monitor while I'm working, I'm picking up on a lot of stuff on this rewatch that I missed or didn't retain the first time through because I'm already familiar with where the storylines are going. For example, I'm up to "The Summer Man" in Season 4. First off, I just want to say, a lot of this episode feels clunky, doubly so because it comes IMMEDIATELY after "The Suitcase." The narration, camerawork...not a fan of the on-the-nose Rolling Stones needledrop either. Anyhow, as I was watching it, in one scene a bunch of lines jumped out at me because they were used in the "On the next episode of Mad Men..." preview when it was originally broadcast. Hearing them now, I thought "Wow, these sounded so portentous in the episode preview with that moody bassline humming away underneath...but Lane and Joan are just talking about the new vending machine!" That's when I caught on that, no, they're not - maybe Lane thinks this is just about the vending machine, but Joan's side of the conversation is a coded appeal that Lane fire freelance artist Joey, the crass sex pest who doesn't respect her. It's all playing to Joan's storyline in the episode, which is about how she's powerless despite being in the right, because she's viewed as just a woman who manages the office. Lane, with his corner office and titled role within the company, is the only person who can make the situation right without Joan appearing weak...but Joan also can't ask Lane outright, because she knows that directly addressing the issue will be perceived as the hysterics of an over-sensitive woman. So they wind up having this weird conversation where every line is loaded with implicit meaning, but only one person in it realizes that. As far as keeping up with who is who, a twofold benefit of the rewatch is that in addition to knowing where the plot is going, I'm doing multiple episodes in a row, which is a huge help in keeping track of secondary and tertiary characters. Like Megan - she is all over Season 4 from the very beginning, but in a "featured extra" kind of way. Joan will task her with some office business as a throwaway line in the middle of a scene, or Megan and Peggy will share a moment in passing, but absolutely nothing indicates "The woman is going to be a main character by the season finale." Even if I didn't know that, though, seeing her pop up multiple episodes in a row would already lead you to think "They're going to do SOMETHING with this woman eventually."
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Feb 11, 2021 18:39
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Jerusalem's posts are excellent close reading so if you want to get better at it then just reading those (not to mention the sopranos and I think breaking bad ones) will help get better at it. It's a skill and it's fun. I'd say the vast bulk of what Jerusalem picks up was intended by the writers because its that kind of show, but basically any reading you can support is valid. As an exercise, think about why jerusalem keeps unintentionally confusing peggy and betty...
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Feb 11, 2021 20:56
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The quickest and most effective way to increase your ability to dissect a tv show is to take your smartphone and chuck it out the window.
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Feb 11, 2021 21:02
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The most important thing is:sebmojo posted:basically any reading you can support is valid. Something I see happen a lot is people being worried about being "right", but if you can reasonably argue a justification for a reading then it is a valid one even if people disagree with it. Part of the fun of stuff like this is coming up with a take on something, then having people tell you an entirely different take that you may have never even considered, and then the back and forth of discussing these different reads and figuring out how you feel about them. And yeah, the parallels between Peggy and Betty in Don's life are fascinating. One of my few disappointments about The Sopranos is that they would sometimes start to do stuff like this (Melfi and Carmela, Christopher and Paulie, or to a far lesser extent Christopher and AJ) but then kind of move on in other (excellently written and acted) directions instead.
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Feb 11, 2021 21:10
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Jerusalem posted:Something I see happen a lot is people being worried about being "right", but if you can reasonably argue a justification for a reading then it is a valid one even if people disagree with it. Someone really needs to teach CD the “reasonable” part
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Feb 11, 2021 21:16
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Escobarbarian posted:Someone really needs to teach CD the “reasonable” part I was thinking on this before haha. The paradigmatic CD process seems to be to take a piece of mass market pop culture, make a loosely supported reading that is a bit outrageous, then :trollface: when people come in to dispute it. I'd say that a hallmark of the style is to ignore or discount evidence in the text that doesn't support the reading, because the goal is to make people mad and laugh at them rather than explore the text but that itself is kind of a tendentious reading of CD so idk lol e: film crit hulk does what I'd consider really good thoughtful readings of pop stuff, i liked this one sebmojo fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Feb 11, 2021 |
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Feb 11, 2021 22:34
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Nah I think the principal actors in cd believe everything they say
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Feb 11, 2021 22:55
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