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so I restarted once again my Marvel chronological reading project once more and I figure to give me more motivation I'll post some basic thoughts* on each issue here, with this first post covering the first five issues in the order I'm following; Fantastic Four #1: a classic for reasons gone into by many people, even if it is a janky mess clearly edited and sown together from a bunch of originally unrelated unused stories Fantastic Four #2: another classic story and also still very janky, not to mention at least one big plot hole and some very questionable ethics on Reed's part Tales to Astonish #27: the introduction of Hank Pym though at this point he's just a generic comic book mad scientist, the other stories in this issue include one about a magic mirror, a really silly story about a talking horse, and "Dead Planet" a story about an otherwise invincible alien warrior having to combat loneliness, honestly it's the best story in the issue a real Hidden Gem of early Silver Age Marvel Fantastic Four #3: honestly the only real reason to read this issue is to see the debut of the FF's costumes, the Fantasti-Car, and their headquarters, otherwise this is a really bleh issue(Miracle Man might just be the lamest opponent the Fantastic Four fight in the Silver Age that I'm aware of) that shows that Stan Lee and Jack Kirby were still ironing out the kinks for this series Fantastic Four #4: probably the first issue of FF that's fully good on it's own merits and not just for historical reasons, with the reintroduction of the Sub-Mariner and the cast's personalities are beginning to solidify(well Sue is still pretty one dimensional), also Giganto is a classic example of a Kirby Monster, and I love the goofy little "The Hulk Is Coming" and "Who Is The Hulk??" thing they stick at the bottom of certain pages in here I'll post more later *when I first started this a couple years ago in a thread over on another site I did much more in-depth analysis for each issue but doing that took ages to do(and got derailed thanks to some personal problems at the time), so for the time being I'm going to stick to these shorter reviews, maybe once I hit the end of say 1963 I'll go back and do full length ones for all the issues past FF#3(as I've already written up FF#1-3 and TtA#27 over in that other thread)
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Feb 8, 2021 07:13
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Lee/Kirby Fantastic Four is probably my favorite comics from that era.
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Feb 8, 2021 07:23
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onto the next set of issues; Tales to Astonish #29: the titular story for this issue "When the Space Beasts Attack!!" is a fun little twist on the alien invasion plotline, the rest of this issue's stories are also pretty fun overall(the other three stories all revolve around assholes getting their just desserts in ironic and lethal ways) Tales to Astonish #30: another fun issue, we had three stories involving assholes getting their just desserts again(including the introduction of "Quogg" who might be one of Marvel's nuttiest monsters ever), as well as a cute story about a woman getting rewarded for helping an alien The Incredible Hulk #1: the debut of one of Marvel's most enduring characters(though it took a little while for that to really stick) and the first Silver Age debut to really stick the landing on it's own merits, though it does have some quirks(Hulk's original personality is weird and physically he's not really all that impressive yet either) Tales to Astonish #32: this one was kinda mediocre overall, not much else to say about it The Incredible Hulk #2: this one is also kinda iffy(there's a reason people make jokes about the Toad Men whenever anyone can be bothered to remember they exist), though the way Hulk is drawn in this issue is interesting and he's finally green now, also it's kinda funny how this marks two issues now where Hulk doesn't really contribute to the climax of the plot, it's Banner who saves the day
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Feb 8, 2021 09:30
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I'm not saying you're doing it wrong since you have to pick your own boundaries that make sense to you on a reading project like this, but is there a reason that you're going forward with the non-super issues of Tales to Astonish? Most people either only read the comics that were Marvel Universe at the time they were published, or they go whole hog and read everything. Adding one of the monster books to your reading list just feels a bit odd. Hulk's first run is so inconsistent despite having a perfect first issue. I get the impression that Lee wasn't certain what to do with the character and so reworked him every single issue. One more thing, are you reading these on Marvel Unlimited or through a source like the PDFs on DVD? The reason I'm asking is that the letter columns add a lot of fun to these, seeing the fan reaction to these stories and spotting future comics and other nerdy professionals.
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Feb 8, 2021 13:40
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X-O posted:There is no current Marvel event that I know of.
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Feb 8, 2021 15:02
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King in Black is mostly symbiotes and I’m enjoying it so far. I also enjoyed the first Thunderbolts crossover issue too. I’ve largely enjoyed most of the marvel stuff I’ve sampled since I started collecting again. DC on the other hand...
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Feb 8, 2021 15:16
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CopywrightMMXI posted:King in Black is mostly symbiotes and I’m enjoying it so far. I also enjoyed the first Thunderbolts crossover issue too. I’ve largely enjoyed most of the marvel stuff I’ve sampled since I started collecting again. DC on the other hand... Future Slate is exactly the kind of thing I would normally love, but it's just not very good.
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Feb 8, 2021 15:20
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Random Stranger posted:I'm not saying you're doing it wrong since you have to pick your own boundaries that make sense to you on a reading project like this, but is there a reason that you're going forward with the non-super issues of Tales to Astonish? Most people either only read the comics that were Marvel Universe at the time they were published, or they go whole hog and read everything. Adding one of the monster books to your reading list just feels a bit odd. I think it's helpful to read at least some monster books to get a better sense of what was there at the time. And if drrockso20 is using CMRO a lot of those monster books are included because they have a character or monster who comes back 30 years later. My CMRO reading reached Giant Size X-Men several months ago (took me 3 years) and just stalled there. I need to get back to it.
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Feb 8, 2021 15:21
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X-O posted:Future Slate is exactly the kind of thing I would normally love, but it's just not very good. I originally quit reading back when Final Crisis started and I’m beyond lost when I try to read anything from DC. I know they’ve done a few reboots since then but I have no clue what stories and characters are considered canon anymore. Plus I was hoping they’d have backed away from the edgy hyper-violence but they seemed to have embraced it even further.
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Feb 8, 2021 18:02
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CopywrightMMXI posted:I originally quit reading back when Final Crisis started and I’m beyond lost when I try to read anything from DC. I know they’ve done a few reboots since then but I have no clue what stories and characters are considered canon anymore. Plus I was hoping they’d have backed away from the edgy hyper-violence but they seemed to have embraced it even further.
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Feb 8, 2021 18:32
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CopywrightMMXI posted:I originally quit reading back when Final Crisis started and I’m beyond lost when I try to read anything from DC. I know they’ve done a few reboots since then but I have no clue what stories and characters are considered canon anymore. Plus I was hoping they’d have backed away from the edgy hyper-violence but they seemed to have embraced it even further. Honestly who cares if it's canon? A good story is a good story regardless of whether it "counts."
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Feb 8, 2021 21:28
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Endless Mike posted:Honestly who cares if it's canon? A good story is a good story regardless of whether it "counts." Ehh, sometimes it complicates things. I liked Hellblazer Rise and Fall and the end of the first issue is just a panel of the devil in John's living room. He looks different than the way he's portrayed in the Ennis run, but he's Satan, so that doesn't mean much. Then I have to wait 2 months to figure out if this is in the same continuity as the Ennis runs, because there wasn't enough context clues. and it changes the entire tone of that final page.
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Feb 8, 2021 21:43
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Canon only matters in the sense that it's good to know what parts of the history of the character inform the current incarnation. Imagine coming back to DC during New 52 and seeing Superman and Wonder Woman in a relationship and Lois was never in the picture at all. Now imagine someone that only came into DC during that period and only knew that coming back to DC this year and Superman/Wonder Woman was never a thing and now Superman has always been married to Lois and has a teenage son. Super loving confusing either way.
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Feb 8, 2021 21:48
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X-O posted:Canon only matters in the sense that it's good to know what parts of the history of the character inform the current incarnation. Imagine coming back to DC during New 52 and seeing Superman and Wonder Woman in a relationship and Lois was never in the picture at all. Now imagine someone that only came into DC during that period and only knew that coming back to DC this year and Superman/Wonder Woman was never a thing and now Superman has always been married to Lois and has a teenage son. Super loving confusing either way. Yeah, I think it can be important when dealing with character's histories with each other. I remember reading King's Batman and trying to figure out if Knightfall had happened in the current continuity. I remember someone recently being confused with how Max Lord was being written in Wonder Woman versus how he was written in a different book at the same time.
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Feb 8, 2021 21:52
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DC has rebooted so many times, that I don’t care what the actual continuity is. It’s whatever I want it to be now. Just throw all of Superman’s origins in a blender, and that’s fine with me.
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Feb 8, 2021 23:11
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Random Stranger posted:I'm not saying you're doing it wrong since you have to pick your own boundaries that make sense to you on a reading project like this, but is there a reason that you're going forward with the non-super issues of Tales to Astonish? Most people either only read the comics that were Marvel Universe at the time they were published, or they go whole hog and read everything. Adding one of the monster books to your reading list just feels a bit odd. Each of these that's on here is on the "Main Reading Order" over on The Complete Marvel Reading Order, for these anthology comics usually only one story is actually eventual Marvel Canon, I'm just reading the whole issue(minus text stories because those universally blow) cause the idea of going through the effort of hunting down an old comic and only reading part of it just feels wrong As for where I'm reading them, I'll admit I'm using a  source mostly cause I know Marvel Unlimited still has holes in it's libraryJordan7hm posted:I think it's helpful to read at least some monster books to get a better sense of what was there at the time. And if drrockso20 is using CMRO a lot of those monster books are included because they have a character or monster who comes back 30 years later. Yup
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Feb 9, 2021 00:59
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https://twitter.com/TheAlanJohnson/status/1359189235740209153?s=20
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Feb 9, 2021 22:41
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Endless Mike posted:Honestly who cares if it's canon? A good story is a good story regardless of whether it "counts." It's less that it's impossible to tell good stories without worrying about canon, and more that DC has historically seemed utterly incapable of not worrying about canon even as it asks the reader not to worry about canon, until the next time they do an entire event of callbacks and tweaks to canon.
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Feb 10, 2021 00:45
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God help me, I'm reading Countdown. This is a cry for help...
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Feb 11, 2021 05:24
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Random Stranger posted:God help me, I'm reading Countdown. You've made your bed.
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Feb 11, 2021 05:27
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Skwirl posted:You've made your bed. I'm also reading the Legion tie-in stuff in Meltzer's Justice League. I think I actively repressed my memories of that comic. Goddamned is it awful.
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Feb 11, 2021 05:41
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Random Stranger posted:God help me, I'm reading Countdown. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l60MnDJklnM
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Feb 11, 2021 17:23
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Random Stranger posted:God help me, I'm reading Countdown.  I sure hope you're reading the tie-ins as well if you want to have even the faintest idea of what's going on.
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Feb 11, 2021 17:57
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JordanKai posted:
I'm reading it because my sources listed it as a big part of Legion chronology. Read issue one and discovered that the Legion stuff picked up mid-story from Meltzer's equally bad JLA run so went back and read that. Roughly six months down my timeline I've got the Superman story all about the bronze age Legion. And through all of this there's the actual ongoing Legion series that shares absolutely no continuity with any of that mess. Waid just left the book and in context, it sure seems like it was because his Legion was getting thrown in the trash for the sake of some people reliving their childhoods. Given how noticeably non-diverse the old Legion was, it feels like a classic example of DC throwing minority representation under the bus for the sake of pandering to fans who want everything to remain the same. And that's before I get into how the continuity makes no sense. I won't beat the drum too hard over Karate Kid still being alive when Projecta is going by Sensor Girl, but Superman was never Superboy so why did he spend his teen years hanging out in the future with them? Oh, and I forgot that this was part of the who lovely thing to bring back Barry Allen. So, in conclusion, gently caress Geoff Johns.
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Feb 11, 2021 18:16
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So I started reading Kirby's Fourth World stuff and even before they became Cadmus "the Project" sure were super unethical. Superman introduces them to Jimmy by showing him how the Project make clones of Jimmy and the (new) Newsboy Legion without their consent.
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Feb 11, 2021 18:31
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They made a tiny version of Scrapper (if I remember right) who was carried around in regular sized Scrapper's pocket and helped him out of jams, but never seemed to talk or express consent. I especially love how Flippa Dippa would turn EVERYTHING into scuba diving.
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Feb 11, 2021 18:41
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Its funny when the Newsboys meet up with their dads and Flippa's dad has no time for his poo poo and makes him take off the scuba gear he's been wearing for like the last five issues.
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Feb 11, 2021 18:46
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So I gave into my friends and finally watched My Hero Academia and I pretty much enjoyed it. I really disliked Deku at first because that sort of whiney, scared protagonist just annoys the poo poo out of me. I think Bakugo dragged down every scene he was in with his constant screaming and cannot understand why his constant threats of murder weren't dealt with. My total lack of any ambition meant I absolutely couldn't identify with everyone's quest to be #1 and the sort of individualism at all costs the first season had pissed me off as someone who wants people to cooperate in order to succeed. But Deku got better and the rest of the cast (except the mandatory pervert character) was amazing. The type of powers and the broad range of abilities they granted reminded me of Grant Morrison and that sort weirdness that Authority era Wildstorm had. All Might was one of the best Superman archetypes I've seen, and better than anything WB has brought to the big screen in decades. All in all, even if you're an anime hater like I am, give it a few episodes. I know I'm late to the party, but that was some fun world building even if I didn't care for some of the anime tropes. Also: Froppy is my MVP
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Feb 11, 2021 20:13
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I really liked season 1 too. And then season 2 happened and totally killed my interest in it
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Feb 11, 2021 20:16
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what about it? IMO it only gets better every season. Was season 2 the sports tournament? Because I remember parts of that pissing me off with how driven everyone was acting.
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Feb 11, 2021 20:24
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I can't do 20 something episodes of one tournament. I'm not built for shonen
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Feb 11, 2021 20:32
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continuing yet again with my Marvel readthrough, some big stuff this time around; Amazing Adult Fantasy #14: some fun little stories in this issue, including the first appearance of the Marvel brand of Mutants Fantastic Four #5: the debut of Doctor Doom and overall a very solid comic, the whole time travel adventure to find Blackbeard's Treasure is wonderfully goofy(and we see more of the continuity begin to be built up as they make a callback to Namor from the prior issue) Amazing Fantasy #15: Spider-Man's debut is still as classic as always, even if Ditko's art is a bit sloppy and/or stiff in some panels, and yeah Peter Parker does kinda give off some "School Shooter" vibes in the first couple of pages whenever he's around people his own age, also there's at least one aspect that later retellings change that definitely works better than it did here, in most adaptations the burglar pretty much immediately goes off and kills Uncle Ben after Peter let's him get away, here they had several days stretch between the two encounters which just feels kinda contrived for some reason, also funny thing is Amazing Fantasy is still an anthology comic in this issue so we have a couple more stories after this though they're overall kinda mediocre little things Journey Into Mystery #83: Thor's debut is probably the most overall solid of the major debuts so far, not as unique or interesting as most of the others but lacking any major flaws too, unfortunately the copy of this issue I have on hand only has the Thor story so I have no idea what else was in this issue Journey Into Mystery #84: unfortunately Thor's second story is overall REALLY bad, only good thing about it is that as both Thor and Donald Blake he makes some creative uses of his powers, also the debut of Jane Foster and well it's not really a strong showing for her
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Feb 11, 2021 21:40
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drrockso20 posted:funny thing is Amazing Fantasy is still an anthology comic in this issue so we have a couple more stories after this though they're overall kinda mediocre little things Still? that's the last issue for decades, isn't it?
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Feb 11, 2021 21:48
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Skwirl posted:Still? that's the last issue for decades, isn't it? The source I was using had listed a couple more issues after that one, but turns out those were made in the 90's as some sort of weird promotional stunt
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Feb 11, 2021 21:58
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drrockso20 posted:The source I was using had listed a couple more issues after that one, but turns out those were made in the 90's as some sort of weird promotional stunt Yeah, I'm pretty sure I bought a copy of Amazing Fantasy 16, it's Peter Parker as Spider-Man in between Amazing Fantasy 15 and Amazing Spider-Man 1.
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Feb 11, 2021 22:05
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and now for the next set of comics; Incredible Hulk #3: this one is pretty ho-hum, you can tell Lee & Kirby were kinda drawing blanks on what to do with Hulk so they essentially write out both Banner and Hulk as characters to have Hulk become a mostly mindless puppet of Rick Jones, but unfortunately Rick at this point has all the personality of a bucket of paste so it doesn't really help matters Fantastic Four #6: this issue has a lot of firsts in it, we have the first villain team-up of modern Marvel, the debuts of Unstable Molecules, the Yancy Street Gang, and the first of many seeming demises of Doctor Doom, also man if these stories were being told today people would be calling Namor a "himbo" for sure Tales to Astonish #35: the return of Hank Pym and the debut of Ant-Man, another pretty solid story Journey Into Mystery #85: the debut of Loki(and technically a bunch of other Asgardians as well as Asgard itself) is a fun little story full of both him and Thor doing some ridiculous feats of magic, not sure what the heck is up with them trying to setup a love triangle between Thor, Loki, and Jane Foster though, guess they just thought repeating the Namor one from FF would make Jane Foster not a complete bore of a character and failed miserably in the process Fantastic Four #7: pretty much a filler issue but one that does it's job
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Feb 12, 2021 00:15
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Amazing Fantasy 15 definitely wasn't intended to be the last issue, despite Stan Lee's later stories of fitting Spider-Man in because the book was doomed. AF switched to an all Ditko book (and was promoted as such!) with issue 10, so when Ditko was eventually tapped to draw Spider-Man it was only natural for the character to debut there. Issue 15 has an editorial page on it asking readers for what they want to see in future issues; almost definitely a prompt for them to go, "drrockso20 posted:Journey Into Mystery #85: the debut of Loki(and technically a bunch of other Asgardians as well as Asgard itself) is a fun little story full of both him and Thor doing some ridiculous feats of magic, not sure what the heck is up with them trying to setup a love triangle between Thor, Loki, and Jane Foster though, guess they just thought repeating the Namor one from FF would make Jane Foster not a complete bore of a character and failed miserably in the process Question for you. Don Blake found an old cane in a cave in Norway and gained the power to shazam himself into Thor. Thor is his alter ego, not a separate being. Don Blake turns himself into Thor to fight crime/alien invasions, and then turns back. Two issues later, Loki and the Asgardians exist, are gods, and Loki and Thor know each other and have for centuries. So how does that work? I just want to make your head hurt and your eyes go cross every time you read Thor. 
Random Stranger fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Feb 12, 2021 |
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Feb 12, 2021 02:26
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Is there somewhere looking at the hints that Iceman is gay? X-Plain the X-Men mentioned it coming up in an issue in the 90's pre Onslaught and I was surprised to hear that it went that far back, but I haven't really read much X-Men pre-00's.
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Feb 12, 2021 02:29
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Uthor posted:Is there somewhere looking at the hints that Iceman is gay? X-Plain the X-Men mentioned it coming up in an issue in the 90's pre Onslaught and I was surprised to hear that it went that far back, but I haven't really read much X-Men pre-00's. If you wanna get really esoteric, in X-Men #1 he's the only one not excited about there finally being a girl in their previously all boys school. Of course it's also a school that previously had only 4 students.
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Feb 12, 2021 02:40
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I think people assume any non-animal character voiced by Frank Welker is gay.
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Feb 12, 2021 06:05
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