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BioEnchanted posted:Also Scrappy was supposed to actually be effective but the executives neutered his character rending him just irritating. I can't recall the exact reason it may have been that he was considered imitable or something? There's an article about it. Scrappy actually was effective in keeping people interested in the show, for better or worse. But I hadn't heard anything about him having his character changed.
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Feb 11, 2021 15:47
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Data Graham posted:Really don't think it needed to go live-action though. Clearly you weren't 8!
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Feb 11, 2021 15:59
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FunkyAl posted:Clearly you weren't 8! That's what I don't get about all the live-action/CGI remakes of everything though. Not to relitigate something that I'm sure has been talked to death here, but when I was a kid "cartoon" meant "for me" and "live action" meant "boring and for grown-ups". I would have looked at a live-action remake of a Disney movie and said "wtf, are they trying to get my mom to watch this?" Maybe today's 8-year-olds have entirely different associations, but I could never figure out what kind of rationale based in "this is what kids want" there could be.
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Feb 11, 2021 16:03
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I still kinda want to see Gunn's original version of the live action Scooby Doo movie.
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Feb 11, 2021 16:10
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Data Graham posted:Maybe today's 8-year-olds have entirely different associations, but I could never figure out what kind of rationale based in "this is what kids want" there could be. Studio execs vastly overestimate how much kids want to be adults and then don't understand what kids think "being an adult" means. So you have kids entertainment FOR ADULTS with all the subtleties of 90s X-TREME marketing. The incredibly conservative media culture we are in right now also means that it is always better to adapt an existing successful property rather than creating something new. Even if it fails, responsibility can be effectively diffused.
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Feb 11, 2021 17:10
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duz posted:I still kinda want to see Gunn's original version of the live action Scooby Doo movie. I hadn't heard of this, can you elaborate on what the original plan was?
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Feb 11, 2021 17:36
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i wonder if writers wanted to lean in on Velma being bi from Mystery Inc and higher ups said "well that means it has to be an adult cartoon because LGBT is not for kids!!!" but then I don't know of any kids show from WBA that is straightforward with LGBT so that's why I'm making that assumption
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Feb 11, 2021 17:50
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Data Graham posted:That's what I don't get about all the live-action/CGI remakes of everything though. Not to relitigate something that I'm sure has been talked to death here, but when I was a kid "cartoon" meant "for me" and "live action" meant "boring and for grown-ups". I would have looked at a live-action remake of a Disney movie and said "wtf, are they trying to get my mom to watch this?" At the time I think there was still novelty in selling something the parents understood from their childhood with new fancy graphics. You meet in the middle, the movie is live action but with an obviously cartoon dog, evil cartoon rabbits, and Mr. Bean. It is also at the end of a cultural wave of reinvigorating the hanna barberra characters, like the japanese scooby doo animes and space ghost. I have witnessed a manager type trying to get a kid to express interest in a scooby doo figure at a convention. I think they rely on this stuff but don't quite get it. What there is to "get" is, Talking dog! AND ghosts? and Eating.
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Feb 11, 2021 17:55
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Aren't the characters in Scooby Doo teenagers? So an "origin" story would be her as a slightly younger teenager, or as a kid? Wouldn't it then by creepy to make an adult series out of that, which would presumably have swearing and sexual situations?
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Feb 11, 2021 17:57
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they're usually out of college in several shows/DTVs, like zombie island took place after they had broken up as a team
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Feb 11, 2021 17:58
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Zombie Island was fuckin great Like it was actually funny, not like laugh-track funny
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Feb 11, 2021 18:00
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Darth TNT posted:And does this mean A Pup Named Scooby-Doo isn't canon? Data Graham posted:Like it was actually funny, not like laugh-track funny It's a shame Return to Zombie Island has Velma go full skeptic. Ccs posted:Aren't the characters in Scooby Doo teenagers? As for timeline, one of the Scooby shows had her graduate from a different high school than the rest of the gang. They could go that route, or alter it so she went to a different middle school and then reunited with the team in high school.
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Feb 11, 2021 18:08
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The sexual orientation of the characters isn't what makes cartoons good or not good
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Feb 11, 2021 18:15
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FilthyImp posted:I'm betting it's Velma Is Bi/Pan and it won't be hard-core R content or anything. https://www.out.com/television/2020/7/13/yes-velma-lesbian-scooby-doo-mystery-incorporated The cynic in me says that's probably why they picked Velma out of the rest of the cast, so they could get some extra hype milking it as queer representation. Buuut, at the same time, I guess she makes the most sense in a leftovers kind of way? How Scooby and Shaggy met/grew up together has been covered multiple times before, Daphne/Fred are pretty stock upper middle class stereotypes, so Velma's really the only interesting one you can write about without introducing radically new aspects to the character.
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Feb 11, 2021 18:33
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Larryb posted:I hadn't heard of this, can you elaborate on what the original plan was? Shaggy was explicitly a stoner and talked about marijuana. Velma would openly be gay with Velma and Daphne ending up kissing onscreen. "James Gunn confirmed that the original cut of the film got an R-rating and had to use CGI to cover cleavage." I don't know if it would've been better than what we got, but it would've been different.
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Feb 11, 2021 18:38
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It’s not great that “Velma is not classically feminine looking” => “lesbian” but waddyagonnado
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Feb 11, 2021 18:48
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Velma is heavily based on an actual actress who ended up blacklisted from Hollywood for being a lesbian.
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Feb 11, 2021 18:57
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Pick posted:The sexual orientation of the characters isn't what makes cartoons good or not good
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Feb 11, 2021 18:58
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The 7th Guest posted:I don't think anyone made that implication?? The point I clumsily tripped around was that whatever Mature/Adult label applied to it might be due to giving her confirmed non-hetero relationships, because Americans are total idiots when it comes to those things. Or maybe they saw how Harley Quinn did and thought More of That Now! Data Graham posted:It’s not great that “Velma is not classically feminine looking” => “lesbian” but waddyagonnado I think her whole romance arc in that series is... messy... and I wish they had been able to really commit to her and HDW.
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Feb 11, 2021 19:37
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It's not my fault that people with no critical media consumption skills don't know how to analyze whether something is actually able to communicate a theme or a concept in any coherent, or cogent, much less substantive, way, and substitute by checking boxes such as whether a character called "Hot Dog Water" is implied to eat bush What does the Scooby Doo show actually say? What's the point it's making? What's the theme? What's the quality of this show that's so remarkable that it should be constantly lauded and revisited? There's a dog that does weed????
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Feb 11, 2021 19:43
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If the question is, what is the fundamental quality of this narrative, and the answer is, certain combinations of people might be having sex, but you're not going to see them do it, and it's only really suggested that they might, under conditions that don't exist in the actual media property itself, I am going to tell you that you have given me a stupid answer
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Feb 11, 2021 19:45
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Pick posted:It's not my fault that people with no critical media consumption skills don't know how to analyze whether something is actually able to communicate a theme or a concept in any coherent, or cogent, much less substantive, way, and substitute by checking boxes such as whether a character called "Hot Dog Water" is implied to eat bush The theme is that the problems of the world are not caused by supernatural entities but by greedy white men.
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Feb 11, 2021 19:45
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Ccs posted:The theme is that the problems of the world are not caused by supernatural entities but by greedy white men. That's not even true, they run into real monsters all the time.
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Feb 11, 2021 19:47
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Even when the villain of the week is supernatural, they're still also conducting an elaborate deception in order to conceal a crime because they weren't satisfied with their position of authority and renown. The heroes, seeking no reward but the restoration of justice, defeat them through courage and skepticism. It's a distinctly modern message that has nevertheless resonated across generations.
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Feb 11, 2021 19:55
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Scooby is the worst character in Scooby Doo. Mystery Incorporated was a fun show but goddamn I hate that dog so much.
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Feb 11, 2021 20:15
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Pick posted:That's not even true, they run into real monsters all the time. Only in recent incarnations. That's why the Zombie Island movie works, because it plays on the audience suspecting there's a trick behind what appears supernatural.
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Feb 11, 2021 20:19
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Ccs posted:Only in recent incarnations. That's why the Zombie Island movie works, because it plays on the audience suspecting there's a trick behind what appears supernatural. Though even before Zombie Island I’m pretty sure there were a few movies at least where the gang encounters actual supernatural beings
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Feb 11, 2021 21:28
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there's stuff like Ghoul School, Boo Brothers, and Reluctant Werewolf but i dunno how much you really count those since they're Shaggy/Scooby/Scrappy only? Ghoul School and Werewolf i remember liking a lot as a kid, though the latter is just a Halloween ripoff of Wacky Races.
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Feb 11, 2021 21:35
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in case anyone’s interested, Don Hertzfeldt is doing a Kickstarter for BD’s of the first 3 episodes of World of Tomorrow. Some of the tiers includes a BD of his prior shorts! Also, Lupine the First was real fun and I recommend checking it out
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Feb 11, 2021 21:56
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all i said was that i don't know if a WBA show has had a fully out relationship in a kid's show and it wouldn't surprise me if the higher ups there won't allow it unless it's in a cartoon for adults, because that was Disney's position for years and TV networks are behind streaming services when it comes to representation. it has nothing to do with arguments about a show's quality. i've only seen one episode of Mystery Inc and a scene from a DTV where Shaggy is hypnotized and beats everyone's rear end so I have no horse in the race i was mostly just curious to know if WBA ever actually had real rep in a kid's show, any of their kids/all-ages shows, because i don't watch them and don't have HBO Max The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Feb 11, 2021 |
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Feb 11, 2021 22:01
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Pick posted:What does the Scooby Doo show actually say? What's the point it's making? What's the theme? What's the quality of this show that's so remarkable that it should be constantly lauded and revisited? There's a dog that does weed???? It is completely formula down to its bones, hence its ubiquity. You can repeat it ad infinitum because the characters are basically all archaic fifties stereotypes like archie, and shaggy who is a 60s stereotype and dying of irrelevance from his inception until he buys a red shirt and turns into a werewolf. However Shaggy, and the fact the dog is named "scooby" doo(bie) means the show is kept by stoners and eventually beloved for its real qualities of being a hokey, poorly constructed carnival ride that can't scare poo poo. They couldn't even scare the duckling scooby and shaggy adopt! But it's all good fun in exactly the same way as the episode where the magician explains how he created the illusion of a ghost. The show is all cycles and tricks until TMS gets to it, by old kooks who are out of gas and drawing ghosts and using mirrors. It's lame, endearingly, like your grandparents are. Now, the WWE needs cartoons to have adventures with.
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Feb 12, 2021 01:05
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Fifties and sixties stereotypes nothin'. "Straitlaced college kids do good and solve mysteries" were Stratemeyer Syndicate cliches that were already old when Chuck Jones parodied them in The Dover Boys.
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Feb 12, 2021 01:41
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I dunno how someone manages to be insufferable and dumb as nails about Scooby Doobie Doo but you managed it, Pick. You are truly the Scrappy Doo of this thread.
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Feb 12, 2021 01:44
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lmao keep the dumb USPOL grudgery out of the animation thread you dope. imagine defending the complete horseshit IP of scooby doo to carry on a fatuous political sulk
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Feb 12, 2021 01:48
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I don't like Scooby Doo either. It was always really ugly to me. I hate Scooby's design. I appreciate the new stuff trying to make Velma, Fred and Daphne into actual characters, but I still don't like looking at Scooby and his awful face
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Feb 12, 2021 01:52
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You posted "Scooby sux" and then when a page of praise or indifference to its formula followed you pivoted to "oh but sexuality doesn't make things good!"  E: no one cares about whatever political slapfight you got in today, dweeb. Jesus. FilthyImp fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Feb 12, 2021 |
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Feb 12, 2021 01:52
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Macaluso posted:but I still don't like looking at Scooby and his awful face 
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Feb 12, 2021 01:53
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College monk comedy. John Belushi as Gregor Mendel
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Feb 12, 2021 01:56
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Just a terrible creature. Hideous gross monster. Marmaduke lookin rear end bitch
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Feb 12, 2021 01:56
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You know perry the platypus, I was feeling pretty lousy until I switched to this "pescatarian" thing. I have a lot more energy and it interacts well with carbohydrates. I don't know perry, I think the keto stuff is a scam. Why aren't you supposed to eat bread? And they call me a mad scientist.
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Feb 12, 2021 01:59
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