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Dapper_Swindler posted:silverhand was always gonna be a major part of the story because he is like one of the 5 main characters in the sourcebooks. IIRC, originally there was gonna be three major characters from the sourcebooks intertwined with V throughout the game, depending on what life path you chose, all of which ended up getting cut of course. I know Johnny was supposed to be one but I forget the other two (maybe someone from Arasaka and Grimes' character? not sure).
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Feb 12, 2021 05:07
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It's hard to even know if armour values are buggy because as far as I can tell there's no way to see how much damage a given attack should have done
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Feb 12, 2021 05:16
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I've said it before and I'll say it again, just ignore armor and dress your cyberpunk however you want. If you're dying a whole bunch then craft 200 epic inhalers and learn how to duck behind something. I've been running around in my uncommon shiny purple edgerunner jacket with 40 armor and no slots since level 11 and have zero regrets.
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Feb 12, 2021 05:31
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Sydney Bottocks posted:IIRC, originally there was gonna be three major characters from the sourcebooks intertwined with V throughout the game, depending on what life path you chose, all of which ended up getting cut of course. I know Johnny was supposed to be one but I forget the other two (maybe someone from Arasaka and Grimes' character? not sure). I feel like people always talk about cuts like they're the result of mismanagement, but this seems... fine? Like, if I was a game designer and was faced with fleshing out 3 characters and spending the resources on making all that happen knowing that most people are going to play this 70+ hour game just one time and therefore only experience 1/3 of that content, I'd cut the poo poo out of it too. That's good management and probably good storytelling too.
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Feb 12, 2021 05:44
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Solice Kirsk posted:I've said it before and I'll say it again, just ignore armor and dress your cyberpunk however you want. If you're dying a whole bunch then craft 200 epic inhalers and learn how to duck behind something. I've been running around in my uncommon shiny purple edgerunner jacket with 40 armor and no slots since level 11 and have zero regrets. I finished my first character wearing pants with 11 armor on them. Style > Everything
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Feb 12, 2021 05:45
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TheAgent posted:I figured he woulda made a huge titty gal with red hair and black lipstick Oh man I did that it was awesome
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Feb 12, 2021 06:24
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fennesz posted:Does anyone else feel like this thread needs a PC and console split? right now it seems there is "here's a list of whats broken in the game" and "I really enjoyed this game, maybe play it on PC?" and honestly there's not a whole lot else to talk about because
I think a lot of us console people are waiting for the next gen patch to hopefully renew our excitement for CP2077, but if you really want an echo chamber of PC master race morons, reddit is pretty easy to get to and all they do is post pretty screenshots and downvote anyone critical of the game
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Feb 12, 2021 07:04
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Sydney Bottocks posted:IIRC, originally there was gonna be three major characters from the sourcebooks intertwined with V throughout the game, depending on what life path you chose, all of which ended up getting cut of course. I know Johnny was supposed to be one but I forget the other two (maybe someone from Arasaka and Grimes' character? not sure). Saburo Arasaka and Morgan Blackhand, iirc
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Feb 12, 2021 07:34
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TheAgent posted:thread is gonna go dormant here pretty soon and will be sporadically punctuated with activity once new stuff is released. I like hearing different opinions on the game -- either on console or PC -- and the discussion around whatever is coming in the next 12~ months should be pretty interesting. I guess the console versions really suck, because while a lot of the things listed are janky, there's nothing that is broken enough that it completely makes the pc version unplayable. While the pc version is not broken, it's still far from polished. It feels like they spent the entire last year working on getting console versions to work, rather than iterating on stuff in the pc version. The cop system is literally first pass. There's no way that they spent more than a single day working on that. I know that they would've lost a lot of sales if they did this, but I wish they would've scrapped the last gen versions. The game probably would've been much better at this point if they hadn't wasted so much effort on getting a dense, vertical open world game running on ancient hardware.
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Feb 12, 2021 08:09
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Tenzarin posted:To follow this up I want to point to this article about character animations for firewatch. https://i.imgur.com/tjVIhgp.mp4
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Feb 12, 2021 08:10
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Sydney Bottocks posted:IIRC, originally there was gonna be three major characters from the sourcebooks intertwined with V throughout the game, depending on what life path you chose, all of which ended up getting cut of course. I know Johnny was supposed to be one but I forget the other two (maybe someone from Arasaka and Grimes' character? not sure). Had the Johnny sequences not been so bespoke in terms of animation and cutscenes (if they were just DX-style radio feedback barks, for example) I think that sort of scope would be absolutely doable. But they were never going to go whole hog for three different branches by the standard of what we see now.
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Feb 12, 2021 08:25
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The problem is that when you set out to create a branching RPG story where choice is supposed to matter then when you cut out too much you end up with almost zero player influence on the game. So yeah, cut out 3 different companion NPCs sure, shrink life path introductions to 10 minutes ok, actually remove any influence of life paths on the story uhhh, or better yet reduce how much the player choice matters to 2% of the story most of which is the prologue and final main mission that you can replay for differrent outcomes on your first playthrough. It's been tried out by people already and it's really just 2%. Cyberpunk is great at giving you an illusion of choice but it's just not there. You will get different dialogues but all outcomes stay the same. They went for an empty slate player character and then gave you less player agency than what TW2 or TW3 had. This means that not only is there no replayability from the gameplay perspective because of every build ending up being a zero challenge one-click-kill borefest but there's also no reason to play the game differently from the story perspective. They "optimized" the storytelling so well that nothing matters anymore.
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Feb 12, 2021 08:32
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The Gadfly posted:I guess the console versions really suck, because while a lot of the things listed are janky, there's nothing that is broken enough that it completely makes the pc version unplayable. Yeah, I'm assuming there are large issues with stuff like combat, crafting, etc. on consoles because I see it consistently see people literally say "it's completely broken" or "entirely unplayable" etc. Because all of the things people list over and over I've had zero issues with. I mean, it kinda sucks you can't craft multiples at once, but  e: I'm also pretty sure I remember folks saying 2077 HAD to release base console versions due to contractual obligations. I wish they'd just been scrapped too.  Now I hope 2077 gets third person cameras if they're half as good as this.
fennesz fucked around with this message at 08:56 on Feb 12, 2021 |
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Feb 12, 2021 08:53
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Palpek posted:The problem is that when you set out to create a branching RPG story where choice is supposed to matter then when you cut out too much you end up with almost zero player influence on the game. So yeah, cut out 3 different companion NPCs sure, shrink life path introductions to 10 minutes ok, actually remove any influence of life paths on the story uhhh, or better yet reduce how much the player choice matters to 2% of the story most of which is the prologue and final main mission that you can replay for differrent outcomes on your first playthrough. It's nitpicking really but I disagree that's it's good at providing the illusion of choice. It's just that a player goes into it with the prior assumption that they will be making choices and those will have an impact. So when you do something and then something follows after you assume it's because of the action you took. The moment you scratch the paint just a little bit the illusion falls apart. For a good example of illusion of choice working I'd pick that quest in TW3 where Geralt and Triss get captured on purpose. The outcome of that quest is going to be same no matter what you do. At some point very quickly after diverging all the paths come back together but there is a point during the quest where you can make choices that reflect how you want Geralt to behave in the situation and something different happens in the quest because of it. There are new cinematics, the fight is different, and there's different dialogue. The choice you can make doesn't really matter. IIRC it doesn't change anything down the line (Maybe a bit of dialogue?) but it feels impactful.
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Feb 12, 2021 09:11
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In a way you're right but I feel like TW3 has better payoffs. Special scenes, cutscenes, actions, routes would be enough for me. For example the prologue mission with getting the Militech droid from Maelstrom - you will get that droid in the end anyway in order to continue the main mission, sure. The permutations with what you do with the chip, choice of faction you side with, optional boss battle, a hookup depending on what you went with etc. Very cool, give me THAT game and I'm set. I mean, lasting consequences from siding with one of the sides that carry over to other missions like in New Vegas would be just fantastic but hey, I'd be happy with less. Then it turns out it's just that mission, it's only new dialogue variants from then on and little comes close to that kind of experience until the very end of the game. Palpek fucked around with this message at 09:47 on Feb 12, 2021 |
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Feb 12, 2021 09:42
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The idea that I was making some big boy choices on the narrative started to fall apart for me with the VDB questline. The game makes a huge deal out of your decision to side with the Boys or Netwatch, you assume that because of the circumstances it’s going to ripple onward to your relationship with Alt and by extension Johnny, maybe even your eventual capability to access Mikoshi, and... absolutely nothing comes of it. There’s literally no impact on the story either way.
exquisite tea fucked around with this message at 09:56 on Feb 12, 2021 |
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Feb 12, 2021 09:47
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Palpek posted:In a way you're right but I feel like TW3 has better payoffs. Special scenes, cutscenes, actions, routes would be enough for me. Yeah I was saying the reason illusion works better in TW3 is because there's payoffs and that the illusion in Cyberpunk is paper thin. If they whole game had the reactivity and options of that mission nobody would give two shits about bad AI or slippery cars. Maelstrom have different dialogue all over the place based on what you do in that mission and it even has a little cameo towards the end of the game. But it is literally just that mission.
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Feb 12, 2021 09:56
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Did Brick ever show up again or should you just see what the detonator does
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Feb 12, 2021 10:10
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There's some more that are somewhat meaningful, the policewoman investigating extortion in the market, delamain cars (as buggy as that is), the one where you steal the murder tape for an "investigative reporter", the racing mission chain etc. Not that many but there's some.
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Feb 12, 2021 10:12
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Funky See Funky Do posted:Yeah I was saying the reason illusion works better in TW3 is because there's payoffs and that the illusion in Cyberpunk is paper thin.
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Feb 12, 2021 10:12
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i spent the entire game frustrated that V's personality, behaviour and the outcomes of their actions all fell entirely outside my control and at that point, why did they make a videogame instead of using their obvious animation prowess to make a movie or something? aside from money i mean i mean if you polish it up yeah sure the gameplay would be alright but depending on where you start tracking this game took anywhere from four to ten years to develop, so the benchmark of 'decent presentation with decent shooter gameplay' is definitely way too low for the amount of work involved.
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Feb 12, 2021 10:56
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Rockstar Massacre posted:i spent the entire game frustrated that V's personality, behaviour and the outcomes of their actions all fell entirely outside my control first two are true for witcher 3, you just like Geralt and dislike V for me for example it's the other way around
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Feb 12, 2021 11:46
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Geralt has the excuse of being a premade character with a long past history with a lot of the main NPCs. In Cyberpunk you get to choose entirely different past life paths and yet you have even less control over your personality and attitude towards other characters than you had in TW3.
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Feb 12, 2021 12:08
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Earwicker posted:trying to wrap my head around the 2020 version of  Oh man, the frogs. The frogs! And then I COULDN'T leave without my buddy Superfly...
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Feb 12, 2021 12:19
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In many ways V has no backstory and feels weird. With the corpo lifepath its as though V has been in night city his whole life but doesn't know a soul. He meets one guy he used to work with throughout the entire game. Does V have family in the city? Enemies? Rivals? The only friend we ever meet is Jackie and it's ambiguous how well they know each other. Ditto with the street kid life path. V apparently comes from the same neighbourhood as Jackie, is a regular the bar Jackie's mum owns, is on friendly terms with the main fixer there. V knows some of the locals well enough to be wary of the guy that asks him to steal a car but has never met Jackie and apparently has no other friends or family in the city. With the nomad lifepath you can handwave away it by saying all of V's roots are wherever the Bakkers are out east someplace or whatever.
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Feb 12, 2021 12:21
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I really didn't have a problem with V's character and the main story being a mostly linear action-adventure narrative. I play games without a robust choice & consequence system all the time, and my expectations for what developers can achieve with branching narratives are pretty realistic. For me it's Cyberpunk's consistent "why even present this dialogue option as a choice if you're going to immediately ignore or overwrite it" that's bothersome, and suggests that much of it was cut out or left unfinished. When the roleplaying in your much-anticipated open-world RPG is anemic, that's a problem, and it's not easily fixable in the same way making the cars work properly is fixable. Enemy AI and specific game systems might get overhauled, but we're stuck with CP2077's vaguely disappointing reactivity forever, and that's more frustrating than if the game had the courtesy to be 100% crap right out of the gate.
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Feb 12, 2021 12:31
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The lacking of gravitas and even the illusion of choice in quests was probably my biggest letdown of the game. Comparing to Witcher 3 nothing seems to matter in any way, or the ambiguity of your choices is left entirely on the data shards instead of dialogue / cutscenes.
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Feb 12, 2021 13:16
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I just don’t understand why there isn’t a hair stylist or tattoo shop anywhere. 
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Feb 12, 2021 13:42
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Funky See Funky Do posted:Yeah I was saying the reason illusion works better in TW3 is because there's payoffs and that the illusion in Cyberpunk is paper thin. 100%. I was expecting jank, acceptable shooting mechanics, and a few broken systems but some great loving reactivity and quest dialogue. I got a lot of jank, surprisingly good shooting mechanics when there aren't AI bugs, a few broken systems, and some flashes of neat storytelling/reactivity/dialogue but nowhere near enough. The sidegigs were just all half-baked and didn't go anywhere beyond "kill man" or "steal thing" sometimes with "but don't alert anyone" thrown on top there. While some W3 quests were that, most of them were a lot more involved, or felt a lot more involved. Even the 2077 sidegig where you can confront the corrupt cop who hired you to get some crime scene footage back felt refreshing and that was about the lowest bar I was expecting in most cases. I'm still having fun, but mostly feel let down by the dialogue and writing, not the rest of it. I still think a good crafting overhaul that focuses on letting you make your own Iconic weapons and using all of those randomly-rolled modifiers that can drop, and turns Iconics into the mainstay weapons of non-crafting characters while a Crafting person can make stuff that's better, would be loving great. Anita Dickinme posted:I just don’t understand why there isn’t a hair stylist or tattoo shop anywhere.
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Feb 12, 2021 14:50
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heckyeahpathy posted:I feel like people always talk about cuts like they're the result of mismanagement, but this seems... fine? Like, if I was a game designer and was faced with fleshing out 3 characters and spending the resources on making all that happen knowing that most people are going to play this 70+ hour game just one time and therefore only experience 1/3 of that content, I'd cut the poo poo out of it too. That's good management and probably good storytelling too. In the part where Takemura spills his guts about his terrible life story going from a slum rat in Chiba 11 to an Arasaka soldier, it would be awesome to instead of having Johnny tell you what a chump Takemura is, to have Saburo Arasaka himself tell you what a chump Takemura is.
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Feb 12, 2021 15:02
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Arglebargle III posted:In the part where Takemura spills his guts about his terrible life story going from a slum rat in Chiba 11 to an Arasaka soldier, it would be awesome to instead of having Johnny tell you what a chump Takemura is, to have Saburo Arasaka himself tell you what a chump Takemura is. I mean the entire point of his character is that he can't admit that.
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Feb 12, 2021 15:29
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What game is this? Is this crysis?
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Feb 12, 2021 15:40
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Looks like Crysis 3.
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Feb 12, 2021 16:56
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Eau de MacGowan posted:Did Brick ever show up again or should you just see what the detonator does He shows up at a place you only interact with if you are following Kerry's quest to its conclusion. And considering his quest doesn't even pop up until after the PoNR shows up, I wouldn't blame people for never noticing.
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Feb 12, 2021 17:49
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marshmallow creep posted:He shows up at a place you only interact with if you are following Kerry's quest to its conclusion. And considering his quest doesn't even pop up until after the PoNR shows up, I wouldn't blame people for never noticing. Where in that mission is he? Do you have to go out of your way to find him? As it is, it's incredibly easy to just follow the, eh, suggested path to complete the mission.
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Feb 12, 2021 17:57
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The Gadfly posted:While the pc version is not broken, it's still far from polished. The PC version is straight up broken. I have been posting semi frequently in the thread about my finding fun just driving my Akira bike through 3 foot wide alleyways. I like the game, but it is more broke than batman's spine after it had that meeting with bane's knee For reference I am playing on a PC with a Ryzen 3600 and a 3080. I have a unicorn GPU and a good processor, I'm about as far away as you can get from a PS4 in terms of performance. Regardless, I have had crashes, stuttering, I've fallen through the map, etc etc etc I was actually saving clips of all of my bug encounters, like, big bugs that you can't ignore and not ladybugs-on-your-screen-door type poo poo. I deleted the folder because it was just getting too big and it's not amusing showing them to friends anymore heckyeahpathy posted:I feel like people always talk about cuts like they're the result of mismanagement, but this seems... fine? Like, if I was a game designer and was faced with fleshing out 3 characters and spending the resources on making all that happen knowing that most people are going to play this 70+ hour game just one time and therefore only experience 1/3 of that content, I'd cut the poo poo out of it too. That's good management and probably good storytelling too. Cutting content to manage your project is good management. I think putting it all on the table in the beginning was the issue, the overreach on everything in the first place forest spirit fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Feb 12, 2021 |
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Feb 12, 2021 17:59
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Private Speech posted:There's some more that are somewhat meaningful, the policewoman investigating extortion in the market, delamain cars (as buggy as that is), the one where you steal the murder tape for an "investigative reporter", the racing mission chain etc. It doesn’t help that the game trains you to hate text logs.
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Feb 12, 2021 18:06
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exquisite tea posted:I really didn't have a problem with V's character and the main story being a mostly linear action-adventure narrative. I play games without a robust choice & consequence system all the time, and my expectations for what developers can achieve with branching narratives are pretty realistic. For me it's Cyberpunk's consistent "why even present this dialogue option as a choice if you're going to immediately ignore or overwrite it" that's bothersome, and suggests that much of it was cut out or left unfinished. When the roleplaying in your much-anticipated open-world RPG is anemic, that's a problem, and it's not easily fixable in the same way making the cars work properly is fixable. Enemy AI and specific game systems might get overhauled, but we're stuck with CP2077's vaguely disappointing reactivity forever, and that's more frustrating than if the game had the courtesy to be 100% crap right out of the gate. This is basically how I feel. More broadly it feels like the open world and RPG elements were actively antagonistic to each other in a way they weren’t for TW3 - as in, it seems like one suffered at the expense of the other. Could just be that the new systems or the new engine were just more than they could reasonably juggle but still, it’s almost 10 years of work.
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Feb 12, 2021 18:13
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inscrutable horse posted:Where in that mission is he? Do you have to go out of your way to find him? As it is, it's incredibly easy to just follow the, eh, suggested path to complete the mission. It's the quest where you go to the Maelstrom rock club. Kerry sends you there to find an ex-band mate. If Brick is alive, he's talking to said person, and you have to interact in order to finish the quest. It's the peaceful option. If Royce is alive, he and Dum Dum can be there, and if none of them are alive, another character will be in charge and will be super aggro.
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Feb 12, 2021 18:14
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Even though I toughed through the bugs and crashing to dashboard literally every 90-120 minutes to finish the game I eventually took Sony up on a PSN refund. In hindsight it felt like I was paying CDPR for the privilege of testing their unfinished demo, so where I’d normally have felt bad for wringing ~60 hours of at least mild entertainment out of their work and exploiting their ‘goodwill’ to do it for free I don’t feel bad at all. I might rebuy it if they fix it, and that’s about as generous as I’m willing to be.
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