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Tenzarin posted:I thought the nomads were just southern hillbillies, so hillbillyism? I didn't understand the Avocados at all. As growing up in the rural south, it was just a stylized futuristic version of half the people I grew up with. Nomads aren't xenophobic or racist enough actually to be a direct parallel.
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Feb 13, 2021 20:59
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They're the Fast & Furious faction.
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Feb 13, 2021 21:00
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exquisite tea posted:They're the Fast & Furious faction. Cyberpunk 2077 - This is what fifty years of Fast & Furious movies does to society
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Feb 13, 2021 21:46
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I'm kinda disappointed. I was a total rear end in a top hat to Judy and Evelyn the entire game and it basically changed nothing at all. Act 2 spoilers Judy still tells me I'm a good person and Evelyn would have trusted me if she got to know me and then invites me a long for her Clouds thing. Man Judy, I did nothing but insult you and Evelyn, tried to interogate her during her rescue, and then complained about the quality of BDs you got out of your friend's skull. Tell me to gently caress the hell off damnit! Remember when you could lock yourself out of quests or open up different sides of quests in Witcher 2 and 3 through dialogue choices? Really wish that company made this game too. edit: I still really like the game and (outside of the fatal crashes I keep getting since the 1.12 update) I kinda find most of the bugs charming. I just wish there was more branching dialogue options. Even if it wouldn't change any of the big story beats it would still be nice to have characters I'm actively hostile towards be hostile back. Solice Kirsk fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Feb 13, 2021 |
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Feb 13, 2021 21:55
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fennesz posted:I'm going to regret asking this but: what specifically is wrong with the gameplay? I play Escape from Tarkov nightly and that game has absolutely ruined me for 99% of shooters on the market. And 2077 ain't one of them. Kneecapping people with shotguns, blasting someone's dome with a sniper rifle, and jumping around like an idiot with a tech pistol all feels absolutely great. The issue that Cyberpunk very quickly runs into, is that ultimately no matter how you build your character, they essentially become an immortal, mass murdering God on any difficulty setting. The gameplay itself boils down to throwing on an invincibility and OHK mode around level 20. Outside of three encounters (mostly boxing fights), the underlying mechanics of combat simply do not matter around midgame. There's no need to dodge, find cover or sneak since everything in the game dies quickly; hacking wipes out dozens of NPCs without any drawbacks. Act I introduces you to a lot of combat concepts that are either sidelined or not really functional (such as netrunners -- who are talked up as extremely dangerous -- end up being "wizards who set you on fire and nothing else"), which is a shame. What this demonstrates is just a severe lack of playtesting. Like I've mentioned before, Act I has some of the most engaging combat encounters because there was obviously time spent thoroughly playtesting those levels. The scripted encounters in Act I also help in the overall engagement; the player also has a set level range and ability set that helps to streamline the combat and keep the overall gameplay engaging. It's fairly obvious that the mid and late game combat encounters really weren't playtested, but even if they were, the changes would require more time to fix than the company was willing to give. I'm reminded of the Nomad ending, where you get this cool tank with motherfucking missiles and wow it felt...kinda weak? Because my character at the time could murder everything thrown our way without any challenge, the awesomely armed tank actually felt like a downgrade from V just eliminating everyone in seconds. And for any end, Adam Smasher -- the motherfucking Adam Smasher -- dies in less than 10 seconds. No challenge. No interesting mechanics besides some adds that literally trip over each other as they come to fight you. I think he runs away...once? Or something? Compare that to some of the boss fights in the W3, and it's totally different. There's mechanics, diverse stages, threats you have to identify and overcome. There's none of that in Cyberpunk besides the heavily restricted boxing matches, and even those come down to "dodge, dodge, punch; dodge, dodge, punch -- but faster." Don't get me wrong. Powergaming in an RPG is one of my favorite things to do after beating a game a few times. Finding weaknesses in leveling or gameplay systems to build a loving crazy beast of a character can bring some new, exciting times to a game where the experience has worn thin thanks to so many playthroughs. But you don't have to intentionally break systems or find loopholes to turn on V's "godmode." You just have to play the game like a normal person, interacting with the underlying systems like a standard player. In my first playthrough, I was around level 25 when I realized nothing in the game posed a challenge; not the mechs, not the elite Arasaka security, not Maxtec, not the cyberpsychos. Not a single one provided interesting or engaging combat on any difficulty setting after level 25 or so. You could intentionally hobble yourself to make things more interesting or exciting, but that's playing the game with the express intent of doing the opposite of powergaming. You're interacting with the provided, designed systems specifically to increase the challenge to you (say, like doing a starter pistol only run, only using specific type of hacking or never putting points into any attribute beyond level one). So that's what I find troubling about the gameplay (or lack of it). I know it's a lot of words for a game I'm not entirely fond of, but I still want the game and company to succeed. I'm hoping that the DLC and next-gen patch not only fixes the crashes and bugs I ran into, but improves the gameplay issues I laid out above.
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Feb 13, 2021 22:10
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Free cloth has always been a loving nightmare to model and they still went for Kerry's bathrobe. Gotta admire the ambition even if it looked like poo poo. How much of the Johnny / Kerry reunion changes depending on that one line in the first flashback? Shumagorath fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Feb 13, 2021 |
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Feb 13, 2021 22:28
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Becoming overpowered is, IMO, a feature not an issue. gently caress balance and gently caress challenge past a certain point. I’m a fan of difficulty curves that fall off a cliff so I can have my power fantasy. And for me at least, this game is still harder than Witcher 3 on Death March.
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Feb 13, 2021 22:36
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Yeah. Being op rules
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Feb 13, 2021 22:45
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The entire point of TheAgent's post was the issue with how and when the point of no challenge happens in the game, not that it's wrong that it exists. A very good post man, well elaborated and I agree.
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Feb 13, 2021 22:50
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Whadda we want? Trap choices and bullet sponges! When do we want em? Now!
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Feb 13, 2021 22:53
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The funny thing is that the game already has both, plenty of perks don't work at all/as advertised and all you have to do to get bullet sponges is find things 5+ levels above you. But you have to go out of your way to make either of those things a real hindrance to your progress
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Feb 13, 2021 22:57
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TheAgent posted:And for any end, Adam Smasher -- the motherfucking Adam Smasher -- dies in less than 10 seconds. No challenge. No interesting mechanics besides some adds that literally trip over each other as they come to fight you. I think he runs away...once? Or something? Compare that to some of the boss fights in the W3, and it's totally different. There's mechanics, diverse stages, threats you have to identify and overcome. There's none of that in Cyberpunk besides the heavily restricted boxing matches, and even those come down to "dodge, dodge, punch; dodge, dodge, punch -- but faster." There are special mechanics and stages in his fight, you're just too overleveled to notice them. As you break his parts his attack patterns change and side doors open spilling some mooks to help him out. Also if you manage to stealth he has special takedown animations. They were probably aiming for level 30 or something around that for endgame but that is way too low. Smasher seems somewhat stronger in Don't fear the reaper ending than in others, but still not a challenge if you did everything in game. Pyromancer fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Feb 13, 2021 |
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Feb 13, 2021 22:57
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chaosapiant posted:Becoming overpowered is, IMO, a feature not an issue. gently caress balance and gently caress challenge past a certain point. I’m a fan of difficulty curves that fall off a cliff so I can have my power fantasy. And for me at least, this game is still harder than Witcher 3 on Death March. On Normal difficulty, sure. If someone selects Very Hard difficulty though, they probably wouldn't mind some challenge even when they're high level. This was an issue in Witcher 3 too, but I don't remember it being this much of one
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Feb 13, 2021 22:57
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When the difficulty fell off for me in this game I decided to change to some weapons that were less powerful just to give myself a little more to have to cope with. I was playing on hard. For a good portion of the middle section of the game I was using a sniper rifle that shot through walls and I could just ping all the enemies in an area and snipe them from one spot without them ever having any idea what was happening. I had to stop myself, it was just too overpowered and was making it not fun.
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Feb 13, 2021 23:08
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Pyromancer posted:There are special mechanics and stages in his fight, you're just too overleveled to notice them. As you break his parts his attack patterns change and side doors open spilling some mooks to help him out. Also if you manage to stealth he has special takedown animations. I mean, compare the Smasher fight at max level to the Dettlaff fight in the W3 at max level. W3 gives that boss many different ways to counter the player's overpowered abilities, even as it sets that boss up to make him vulnerable to some of them. And that fight lasted way, way longer (and way more engaging) than the Smasher fight, even at max level. TheAgent fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Feb 13, 2021 |
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Feb 13, 2021 23:10
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chaosapiant posted:Becoming overpowered is, IMO, a feature not an issue. gently caress balance and gently caress challenge past a certain point. I’m a fan of difficulty curves that fall off a cliff so I can have my power fantasy. And for me at least, this game is still harder than Witcher 3 on Death March.
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Feb 13, 2021 23:16
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TheAgent posted:It's pretty fun as a player to get through difficult encounters by the skin of your teeth only for you to waltz in the same scenario at a higher level and completely loving destroy everything around you. Cyberpunk combat is never engaging after Act 1 (unless you intentionally hobble yourself) but it does make you a feel like you've put in some serious Gameshark codes after level 20 or so. Despite my previous post, I actually agree with you. Or at least, I agree a game should have enough options to give both a good power fantasy, and some good “skin of the teeth” moments as well.
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Feb 13, 2021 23:19
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The other issue with being OP is not that it exists but rather then it renders the systems you're using meaningless. Let's use an extreme example to illustrate the point. Imagine if, through normal gameplay interaction, you were invulnerable and killed every enemy in one hit by say, level 25. Any additional gear, skill, cyberware, etc, is useless, and money also becomes useless. So now we have an additional 25 levels of content in which the systems are meaningless. It's not that it's bad for a player to enjoy a power spike and wipe the floor with enemies; it's more that by doing so you've rendered all progression past a certain point meaningless. And in some ways you've also eliminated the point of progress up to then, too; if we're supposed to be getting a power high from murdering everything so hard, why do we bother messing around with incremental bonuses up until that juncture? Shouldn't be just turn on our blissful power fantasy immediately? In other words; it would be weird to design a game that followed the rules of RPG progression up to level 25, and then became Doom until level 50.
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Feb 13, 2021 23:30
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Maybe the only truly fun build is the throwing knife build after all.
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Feb 13, 2021 23:32
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^^^ Oh man, I considered trying a throwing knife build. Then I threw a knife and realized that I would need to buy or find every knife that I would throw, and immediately gave up on the idea. I'm not sure why they devoted a lot of perks to such a tedious build. caldrax posted:For a good portion of the middle section of the game I was using a sniper rifle that shot through walls and I could just ping all the enemies in an area and snipe them from one spot without them ever having any idea what was happening. I had to stop myself, it was just too overpowered and was making it not fun. I was getting so lazy that half the time I wouldn't even bother getting out of my car before pwning everyone with hax. The Gadfly fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Feb 13, 2021 |
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Feb 13, 2021 23:33
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I got the game for 30 bucks on PS4 and I'm having a lot of fun despite being a completely broken mess. Crashed three times lol. I'm going for the Spiff Gun/Stealth build. I'm in I think Act? Searching for the Voodoo Boyz and preparing to hijack a parade.
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Feb 13, 2021 23:42
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Don't mind me, I'm just hacking people until they set themselves on fire and burn alive into...unconsciousness?
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Feb 14, 2021 00:00
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Pyromancer posted:They were probably aiming for level 30 or something around that for endgame but that is way too low. Smasher seems somewhat stronger in Don't fear the reaper ending than in others, but still not a challenge if you did everything in game. Which is pretty typical for open world game bosses, so not sure why this seems to get singled out as being a CyberPunk problem, rather than an Open World problem.
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Feb 14, 2021 00:03
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Mendrian posted:The other issue with being OP is not that it exists but rather then it renders the systems you're using meaningless. And yeah, there's absolutely no reason why V shouldn't be a motherfucking badass at level 20 or 30 or 40 or even 50. You are a loving badass solo. You're the goddamn hero(ine)! But the narrative problem is, everyone else that is supposedly even more badass comes across as a bunch of loving chumps. Confronting Arasaka in a deadly, full out frontal assault should be loving suicide or, at the least, extremely difficult. Instead, they come off like another group of no-name street punks and aren't more deadly at all. Giant mecha? Dead in a couple hits. Elite security? Literally falling over each other like the Three Stooges. Adam Smasher? Just another cyberpsycho dead within less than a quarter of a minute. Badass is awesome; unkillable, 27 year old god, who can easily gently caress up every single loving entity that has been accumulating power for decades? C'mon. I have no qualms about giving the player power -- and lots of it. As I said before, I love when you go back to those fuckers giving you trouble levels and levels and levels ago and loving serve them their goddamn butts. But in a world like Cyberpunk, where everything -- and I mean like, everything: Night City gangs, its politics, its Corps, the NUSA and Miltech -- is shown to be ultra-powerful and nearly impossible to change, let alone defeat, how is one streetkid (or corpo, or nomad) suddenly more powerful than every single one of those entities combined? Your character is thrust into this world and nearly instantly, you feel like all these "powerful" entities are just playthings. Snipe them, punch them, toss a body in a doorway and watch as his friends pile up like a Texas highway -- the player (and by extension, V) lives in a disconnected reality from what you are presented. Why bother with an elaborate scheme to talk to Hanako when you could easily just smash into her loving place and kidnap her yourself? (which, funnily enough, kinda happens anyway). They did try and tie gameplay and narrative together with Don't Fear the Reaper, as your max health constantly drains the longer it takes you to progress through the level. And that's a good idea, to show how weakened you are, and how much the Relic is taking its toll on V. Unfortunately that didn't translate into any real negative effect gameplay wise; V was still able to completely gently caress up the entire building worth of elite security without any real scares or problems, taking out guards like they were Watson gangbangers on their first day on a corner. It's just a huge disconnect with how the world is presented (dark, unknowable, stressful, scary) to how the gameplay of the character plays out (easy, powerful, nonchalant, godlike). Like maybe if the story was suddenly Johnny is in your head and Alt has given you godlike abilities, okay? Now you are the loving chosen one, something outside of the establishment. That would make sense. But how the game and its world are presented, even low level gangs should be a threat -- certainly Corps like Arasaka and the military industrial complex should be major loving threats -- that the player should feel scared by. There are ways of fixing this, but it's gonna take a long time to tweak. Tons and tons of playtesting at various levels and builds, where idiots like me go "wait I feel too powerful" and then the next encounter go "I feel too weak." Script and scale encounters based on player level, player abilities and difficulty setting. Obviously, you can't account for every permutation but it'd certainly be an improvement from what we got now. It's just time and work and figuring out when morons like myself give helpful feedback and when to dismiss that feedback. tl;dr: There's no reason why the greatest, most feared enemy in the game should be the loving exploding barrel.
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Feb 14, 2021 00:18
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Vagabundo posted:Which is pretty typical for open world game bosses, so not sure why this seems to get singled out as being a CyberPunk problem, rather than an Open World problem. These the same goddamn company but feel leagues apart, in mechanics, narrative and challenge. TheAgent fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Feb 14, 2021 |
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Feb 14, 2021 00:29
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MonsieurChoc posted:I got the game for 30 bucks on PS4 and I'm having a lot of fun despite being a completely broken mess. Crashed three times lol. Oh and save in multiple slots. I didn't hit any progression bugs but I know of a few people that did. Having multiple saves would have been super beneficial for them.
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Feb 14, 2021 00:32
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TheAgent posted:Save often, btw. Had 77 crashes during around 80 hours of gameplay. Played on a PS5. I'm at 14 manual saves.
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Feb 14, 2021 00:33
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caldrax posted:When the difficulty fell off for me in this game I decided to change to some weapons that were less powerful just to give myself a little more to have to cope with. I was playing on hard. For a good portion of the middle section of the game I was using a sniper rifle that shot through walls and I could just ping all the enemies in an area and snipe them from one spot without them ever having any idea what was happening. I had to stop myself, it was just too overpowered and was making it not fun. Yeah same for me. I originally wanted to level up my weapon skills as well, after doing a bunch of hacking, but then I discovered that it's simply more fun to grab a revolver when you have 6 body and 4 reflexes or whatever, rather than keep quickhacking stuff to death through walls. In my current playthrough I've used every quickhack but also mantis blades, katanas, gorilla arms, baseball bats, tech pistols, power revolvers, smart pistols, smart rifles, smart sniper rifles, tech sniper rifles, grenades, shotguns, smart shotguns, and the LMG. The AI is obviously pretty bad and becoming overpowered too soon is a real issue, I just don't think it's a massive dealbreaker, since you can create some variety yourself. 
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Feb 14, 2021 00:37
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I do agree the AI is bad and personally it's my number one issue I'd like to see fixed (after all the major crashes and other stuff of course). But it feels like this will probably only happen when they release an expansion. Trying to adjust the AI of enemies that already exist in the game might break them in some weird way, making the game unplayable again, and they couldn't afford to risk that. Hopefully I'm wrong and they'll be able to dial the AI up across the board in some normal patch but eh.
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Feb 14, 2021 00:44
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jaete posted:The AI is obviously pretty bad and becoming overpowered too soon is a real issue, I just don't think it's a massive dealbreaker, since you can create some variety yourself. Obviously, you agree; I just feel its kinda a cop out to say "it's not that bad because if you avoid it, it seems okay."
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Feb 14, 2021 00:44
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TheAgent posted:Why bother with an elaborate scheme to talk to Hanako when you could easily just smash into her loving place and kidnap her yourself? (which, funnily enough, kinda happens anyway). That part of the Arasaka ending was deeply hilarious. Breaking into that house like it was nothing. There were a handful of bodyguards. The whole time I'm thinking "Takemura you moron! Why didn't we just do this instead?" Hell earlier in the game I'd just jumped the fence while I was exploring.
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Feb 14, 2021 00:44
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Funky See Funky Do posted:That part of the Arasaka ending was deeply hilarious. Breaking into that house like it was nothing. There were a handful of bodyguards. The whole time I'm thinking "Takemura you moron! Why didn't we just do this instead?" Hell earlier in the game I'd just jumped the fence while I was exploring.
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Feb 14, 2021 01:00
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jaete posted:I do agree the AI is bad and personally it's my number one issue I'd like to see fixed (after all the major crashes and other stuff of course). But it feels like this will probably only happen when they release an expansion. Trying to adjust the AI of enemies that already exist in the game might break them in some weird way, making the game unplayable again, and they couldn't afford to risk that. Hopefully I'm wrong and they'll be able to dial the AI up across the board in some normal patch but eh. I've noticed a lot of variation in things like if they bother using grenades depending on what location/mission youre in so hopefully someone just needs to go though and put a bunch of little nodes everywhere
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Feb 14, 2021 01:02
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ive seen ai using grenades pretty frequently but they are usually aimed very carelessly, almost entirely randomly
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Feb 14, 2021 01:03
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Earwicker posted:ive seen ai using grenades pretty frequently but they are usually aimed very carelessly, almost entirely randomly In the Raffen Shiv fight they kept killing me with poison grenades.
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Feb 14, 2021 01:08
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TheAgent posted:Yeah, so again, it comes down to either a lack of playtesting that encounter or just not having time to implement those boss designs/features for players at a high level. And I beat him on Don't Fear the Reaper and the other endings, he died just as fast there (it was actually the first time I beat him and thought "huh maybe the other endings have him more difficult?") Detlaff is the final boss of Blood and Wine, the second expansion for the witcher. It was after they had seen how players tended to play the game, after they'd had time to re-invent the combat trees, redo movement in the game, redo some of Geralts attack animations, and fix the vast majority of the bugs. Also after they had already done Witcher 2, so they had quite a bit of experience making encounters using that particular style of combat. Comparing a boss at release in the core of Cyberpunk 2077 is more than a bit disingenuous. Smasher is certainly designed to be fought at around level 30, and the big problem is that most players will finish the game well past that point - well past the point where smasher is likely to be any kind of threat what-so-ever. They could have used level scaling to offset this, but people bitch and bitch and bitch incessantly whenever level scaling exists, which is another problem. If you read threads on other forums, or go back to the earlier posts by people who rushed through to the endings, you'll see quite a few people getting their faces smashed in by that fight, but in a way that feels fair. It's just not a fight that challenges you at endgame, something we will likely see in the actual expansions because they will certainly be made for endgame level exclusively a la the Witcher expansions. We will also likely see several revisions to combat trees and abilities as things get hammered out in this game, because that is what CDPR has done in the past.
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Feb 14, 2021 01:08
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I'm still enjoying the game quite a bit but some of the early stuff is so good that I feel a little down about how the mid game is going. Being stuck inside a giant television with Adam Smasher literally just inches away from you? loving awesome. The whole negotiation chain between you, Maelstrom, and Militech? loving great, but too bad it doesn't go anywhere. If they'd taken another year and just polished the hell out of the game it had the potential to be another real gem like The Witcher 3. As it stands, it's a good game and I would buy Cyberpunk 2078 if they ever put it out.
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Feb 14, 2021 01:11
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Honestly this game reminds me a lot of Vampire: Bloodlines before the patches.
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Feb 14, 2021 01:16
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Zeroisanumber posted:I'm still enjoying the game quite a bit but some of the early stuff is so good that I feel a little down about how the mid game is going. Being stuck inside a giant television with Adam Smasher literally just inches away from you? loving awesome. The whole negotiation chain between you, Maelstrom, and Militech? loving great, but too bad it doesn't go anywhere. These parts were literally the only parts of the game where I felt really invested in what I was doing. There was genuine tension in the standoff with the Maelstrom, and I lost sight of Adam Smasher while I was watching that scene unfold and was immediately terrified that he was circling round behind me to gently caress my poo poo up. They peaked super early and the rest of the game gets absolutely nowhere near those highs with any of its set pieces.
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Feb 14, 2021 01:18
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TheAnomaly posted:Detlaff is the final boss of Blood and Wine, the second expansion for the witcher. It was after they had seen how players tended to play the game, after they'd had time to re-invent the combat trees, redo movement in the game, redo some of Geralts attack animations, and fix the vast majority of the bugs. Also after they had already done Witcher 2, so they had quite a bit of experience making encounters using that particular style of combat. Comparing a boss at release in the core of Cyberpunk 2077 is more than a bit disingenuous. And you're saying the company with the years of experience creating bosses and encounters from W3, suddenly needs to relearn all those mistakes they supposedly learned half a decade ago? Because now the game is in first person? C'mon, man. It was just rushed the gently caress out and not tested or playtested properly.
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Feb 14, 2021 01:21
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