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Mister Olympus
Oct 31, 2011

Buzzard, Who Steals From Dead Bodies

marshmallow creep posted:

Is Knoll the only dark user we are going to see or is dark magic open to more than him and Ewan?

Sages get dark here too but only at B.

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Keldulas
Mar 18, 2009
That dark B is actually useful mainly because I'm not impressed with the A level dark magics. Being able to get Flux as your regular basic attack is actually handy because it's 4 might/-10 hit from fire, which is a good trade in a lot of cases.

As for the other Dark Magics.... Ruin is there if you want a crit-fish option at least, which isn't terrible either. Probably more useful for a Druid since they get that crit boost with Dark Magics.

Nihilarian
Oct 2, 2013


Rabbi Raccoon posted:

That Rennac's ability doesn't seem that much different than the Vanilla version
I've never been much impressed by the assassin or rogue as classes. The hack improves their utility by giving them 8 move but they aren't much different in combat.

The real buff rogues got is
A) almost every enemy has training gold for you to practice pickpocketing on which
B) gives you twice as much xp as vanilla and
C) the hack gives you more deployment slots than you ever really need

So you might as well have two rogues around so you can send them to opposite corners and speed things up as needed

Seraphic Neoman
Jul 19, 2011


Nihilarian posted:

I've never been much impressed by the assassin or rogue as classes. The hack improves their utility by giving them 8 move but they aren't much different in combat.

The real buff rogues got is
A) almost every enemy has training gold for you to practice pickpocketing on which
B) gives you twice as much xp as vanilla and
C) the hack gives you more deployment slots than you ever really need

So you might as well have two rogues around so you can send them to opposite corners and speed things up as needed

Solid improvement all around tbh, no notes.

Keldulas
Mar 18, 2009

Nihilarian posted:

I've never been much impressed by the assassin or rogue as classes. The hack improves their utility by giving them 8 move but they aren't much different in combat.

The real buff rogues got is
A) almost every enemy has training gold for you to practice pickpocketing on which
B) gives you twice as much xp as vanilla and
C) the hack gives you more deployment slots than you ever really need

So you might as well have two rogues around so you can send them to opposite corners and speed things up as needed

Your point here is the reason why I think Joshua and Marisa just kind of get shat on in Sacred War. Combat-wise, they're the exact same niche as the rogues. But the rogues have stealing for free experience that is theirs alone and more movement. After Moulder (cause healers got accelerated too), Colm was the first to 20 for me.

Whereas even with trying to use Joshua once I got him, he only got to level 16 before I gave up and used other units because everyone else was promoting by that point. Low movement, 1 range only, and fragile were all 3 ticks into why he fell behind. Whereas my Vanessa got promoted despite having 10 strength (it turns out having high movement and lances for more power lets you snipe opportunity kills.... not that it helped her in the long run).

My Colm is worse off stat-wise than Joshua, but he's a vehicle for chip damage and there's more often than not something to steal from the boss, so he's coming along anyways.

Bogart
Apr 12, 2010

by VideoGames
It's hard to trust a swordmaster class in FE-GBAs, imo. Snipers and berserkers will at least deal consistent damage, but swordmasters often suffer from low strength growth and relying on expensive weapons and low chances to do their jobs consistently. Plus it's tough when they crit when you say, don't want them to, and open themselves up to extra attacks enemy-phase, and die. Of course, that can happen with any class, but it's exacerbated with SMs who have to rely on dodge rather than big health stats (zerks) or not being open to attack to start with (sniper).

Explopyro
Mar 18, 2018

I found myself thinking much the same in this one, Joshua really disappointed me (although in postgame once I could fix a bit of his stat-screwage he stopped being a complete liability). Rogues (and even Assassins) have utility to make up for being locked to swords; Swordmasters really don't, and they're really not helped by the fact crits are nerfed to 2x damage even if the rate is higher. Other characters output more damage just via the combination of better strength caps and non-sword weapons, and then they still have the ability to crit on top of that. Swordmasters' special weapon is pretty good, but it doesn't really make up for all the other drawbacks, at best it gets them back to par?

I wasn't super impressed by Berserkers either though, honestly, between the decent axes having reduced hit and the class' low skill cap, they were never quite reliable enough. Still more useful overall than SMs though, and supports go along way toward mitigating the hit problems.

On the dark magic issue - Sages can use pretty much everything, the only thing they can't are Extinction and Hel (and Extinction is nothing special, it's reaver magic but they can just use anima). Although I got really excited about Sages with Nosferatu and then never found that nearly as useful as I'd been hoping, it's just heavy enough for the speed penalty to cause problems.

Keldulas
Mar 18, 2009
I'll give the hack this, they did try to readdress the problem of single-weapon classes by them having more move. Swordmaster and Berserker both have 7 move.

This is nice for Berserker, as it's the only 7 move option for Ross, and Ross both got buffed in the patch and experience is more plentiful. So many extra reinforcements that getting trainees up to snuff isn't really hard, even without doing extra random or Tower of Valni battles. As far as the patch is concerned, Ross's best options are either Berserker for 7 movement and crit, or Hero for the various monster/dragon killers that class has.

Unfortunately, I don't see the benefit for Swordmasters that much because being locked to swords is more painful. No Handaxe and the weakest weapon power...

Bogart
Apr 12, 2010

by VideoGames
I truly do believe in Bows 2-3 range being all that one needs to make archers competitive with mages. They'll always have an opportunity to at least pick at an enemy, meaning the crucial '2' spot in a formation can be filled by a guy with a javelin or a mage, and they can pick damage off scary priority targets that you need to gangpile on. There's a hack called Project Ember for FE6 that gives archers 2-3 range and it was good enough to make me use Wolt and Sue.

Bogart fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Feb 14, 2021

WrightOfWay
Jul 24, 2010


I'm fine with player archers being 3 range but 3 Houses taught me that I really dislike enemy archers being 3 range.

Bogart
Apr 12, 2010

by VideoGames

WrightOfWay posted:

I'm fine with player archers being 3 range but 3 Houses taught me that I really dislike enemy archers being 3 range.

we must all bear the brunt of progress.

Luninareph
Jan 12, 2019

Why, no, I wouldn't hurt a (butter)fly. Why do you ask?

Bogart posted:

I truly do believe in Bows 2-3 range being all that one needs to make archers competitive with mages. They'll always have an opportunity to at least pick at an enemy, meaning the crucial '2' spot in a formation can be filled by a guy with a javelin or a mage, and they can pick damage off scary priority targets that you need to gangpile on. There's a hack Project Ember that gives archers 2-3 range and it was good enough to make me use Wolt and Sue.

I think this is definitely one way to solve the problem. The hack "Order of the Crimson Arm" gives archers 2-3 range bows, competitive stats, and innate Paragon. They are deliciously overpowered, but they still feel less broken than your traditional OP FE unit simply because they (usually) can't kill the entire map in one enemy phase.

goatface
Dec 5, 2007

I had a video of that when I was about 6.

I remember it being shit.


Grimey Drawer
Long range, low speed, medium strength, chip damage kings.

Keldulas
Mar 18, 2009
That's actually a sensible role that isn't overwhelming.

Better than the regular situation, where my only archer is Garcia because it let him hit sword users and use the legendary bow.

FoolyCharged
Oct 11, 2012

Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!
Somebody call for an ant?

Keldulas posted:

That's actually a sensible role that isn't overwhelming.

Better than the regular situation, where my only archer is Garcia because it let him hit sword users and use the legendary bow.

Warriors are the best bow users in 90% of fe games anyways. Even when their stats are bad they're usually miles above archers and the high strength gives bows some oomph they need.

TheMcD
May 4, 2013

Monaca / Subject N 2024
---------
Despair will never let you down.
Malice will never disappoint you.

Update XVII - Death In The Dunes



Alright, we're back in the preps menu because we bought a lot of promotion items last time, and now we're going to use them. Plus, we got a new unit!







Knoll - Shaman:

STATS:

LV: 16 (+6)
HP: 32 (+10)

MAG: 16 (+3)
SKL: 14 (+5)
SPD: 12 (+4)
LCK: 5 (+5)
DEF: 8 (+6)
RES: 14 (+4)

MOV: 5
CON: 8 (+1)

GROWTHS:

HP: 65% (-5%)

MAG: 60% (+10%)
SKL: 40%
SPD: 35%
LCK: 20%
DEF: 35% (+25%)
RES: 45%

OK, that's a big boost in defense growth, and now he's even more promotion ready than before. I still think I want to give him a level or two, let's see how it goes. And hey, he's got luck now. Not a lot of it, but it counts.





Amelia gets one of the knight crests. I've had good results with Paladin Ame in my first run, so I'll go with it again. She goes fast.





Ewan gets a promotion to Mage Knight, since I wanted to try that class out.

CAPS:

HP: 60

MAG: 24
SKL: 25 (-1)
SPD: 25
LCK: 30
DEF: 24
RES: 25 (-1)

Mage Knight gets A anima and B staves.

Vanguard:

- Terrain avoid bonuses increased by 50%
- Gain 3 damage reduction when wielding a light brand or soul brand
- Gain 5 damage reduction when wielding a peacemaker
- Immune to Paladin's Crusade ability

Dunno how well this will go, but let's find out.





Since Gilliam level capped, I should probably promote him.

CAPS:

HP: 60

STR: 30 (+1)
SKL: 28 (+1)
SPD: 22 (-2)
LCK: 30
DEF: 30
RES: 20 (-5)

Generals get swords, axes and lances at B.

Fortress:

- Level% chance to block all damage (does not work against Lethality)
- Terrain defense bonus x2
- Forest, Fort and Pillar tiles don't cost extra move

So basically, Generals can still not move very fast, but they can just blast through some heavy terrain where others would be slowed down. Also, yeesh, 20 RES cap? 22 SPD cap? That's probably not going to bode well for him. Not sure if Gilliam has any future in the postgame. Or even the lategame for that matter. He was an earlygame savior at times, but I think those times might be at an end soon.







We also hand out some stat boosters.



Now, let's get to the actual chapter.





The map has gotten bigger and gained some enemies as well, of course. Still, I'm not expecting this to cause too much trouble.



The southern crew moves partially north (guys that do desert well) and partially east (guys that don't do desert so well and Cormag).

The northern crew has some people we should look at.







Innes - Sniper:

STATS:

LV: 1
HP: 38 (+7)

STR: 15 (+1)
SKL: 16 (+3)
SPD: 15
LCK: 14
DEF: 12 (+2)
RES: 11 (+2)

MOV: 6
CON: 9

GROWTHS:

HP: 65% (-10%)

STR: 50% (+10%)
SKL: 40%
SPD: 45%
LCK: 50% (+5%)
DEF: 35% (+15%)
RES: 25%

CAPS:

HP: 60

STR: 27 (+2)
SKL: 30
SPD: 25 (-3)
LCK: 30
DEF: 24 (-1)
RES: 23

Snipers get S bows.

Ballistics:

- Level% chance of a guaranteed hit
- +15 hit, +10 crit

So the whole thing with the Sniper is that they're very accurate, which can be helpful in this, as hit rates are sometimes quite garbage. Still, they're an archer and therefore have the archer problems.

Innes seems to have gained some minor buffs overall, but I'm not sure he won't land on the bench soon. At least Gerik has a horse. And the ability to use swords. And Vantage.







Saleh - Sage:

STATS:

LV: 1
HP: 35 (+5)

MAG: 17 (+1)
SKL: 18
SPD: 18 (+4)
LCK: 11
DEF: 10 (+2)
RES: 13

MOV: 6
CON: 8

GROWTHS:

HP: 60% (+10%)

MAG: 35% (+5%)
SKL: 40% (+15%)
SPD: 50% (+10%)
LCK: 40%
DEF: 30%
RES: 35%

Nice growth rate buffs, I suppose. He's a real speedy boy now. Saleh should be a contributor for the rest of the regular story at least. Not sure what the postgame will bring.

Seems like there's no automatic levels for Eirika route characters coming into Ephraim route now. Oh well, they're still plenty helpful right now.



Saleh starts off in style, double critting this bishop carrying Purge.



Tethys can't take out the Bolting sage, but I think the AI prefers to use short range over long range, so he should counterattack on enemy phase.



Things get crowded around Eirika pretty quick.



Tethys picks up a level killing a wyvern.



OK, never mind on that "AI prefers short range" thing. 5% death chance, not great, not terrible. The sage should be gone after this next turn, anyway.



Marisa takes out a knight she was fighting that had 0 hit on her and gets this myrmidon level. If this is all you're going to do, I might as well just promote you now, really.



Gerik snipes a wyvern and picks up a level.



To note while I'm cleaning this area up: Basically every enemy is now carrying silver exclusively.



Hey, Eirika gets to get involved too!



Actually, I just noticed, she got autoleveled to 15. Those levels were: +0 HP, +1 STR, +1 SKL, +3 SPD, +2 LCK, +0 DEF and +1 RES. Kinda garbage, honestly. At least she got strength once?



Tana gets this wonderful level after she and Vanessa help out the main southern group a bit (since they don't need to rush up and take out the siege tome guys anymore).



Cleanup down south continues apace.



Reinforcements are fairly numerous. Two wyverns and a cav at the top, three wyverns, a knight and two cavs at the bottom. These reinforcements repeat for a few turns.



Cormag levels fighting the southern reinforcements.



Rennac gets to start bopping around the desert looking for loot. I could've gotten the list of the locations, but I couldn't be hosed.



Ross picks up a garbage level as we get ready to start luring out Valter's wyvern crew.



Cormag, Garcia and Ross are going to be doing a whole lot of wyvern fighting for a few turns.



Rennac finds the first bit of treasure.



Strength, speed and defense. What more could you ask for?



Garcia levels fighting the lower wyverns.



Still quite a lot of wyverns floating around here, but I guess that'll happen when nine of them spawn in over three turns.



Saleh picks up the village...



...and for some reason, that releases a river. I'm not sure what this does. I guess it gives you an easy route through the desert?



Ewan levels fighting the reinforcements up top. He's already better than Saleh.



Most of the crew moves up now, since Ross, Garcia and Cormag should have that area well in hand. Lute stays behind for now, maybe we need emergency healing.



Ross commences the slaughtering.



Next player phase, L'Arachel levels by healing. Fun healing fact: Right now, L'Arachel with a heal staff heals 5 more HP than Tethys with a mend staff. That Valkyrie healing bonus sure is something.



Ross picks up another level cleaning up more wyverns. I guess more RES is always nice.



The reinforcements switch to three wyverns in the northwest, and three cavs in the southeast. Thankfully, all the cavs have lances, so Ross will just tear them apart.



Rennac picks up the next treasure. No idea where this will go - I'll probably save it for the postgame and use it to boost a fresh unit I haven't trained yet like Neimi or something.





Now, since we're getting close, let's look at Valter. +22 HP, +2 STR, +3 SKL, +4 SPD, +12 LCK, +1 DEF and +3 RES compared to his hard mode counterpart, but he's only carrying a javelin.



Ross kinda just fucks him up, so he'll be doing that for a few turns. I could steal the fili shield from him, but I just can't be arsed.



And Cormag snipes the troubadour so that one won't cause any extra trouble.



Since Ross is busy, Cormag and Garcia get to deal with the cavs.



Ross levels up again fighting Valter. He sure has been busy this chapter.



And then this fort right here spawns a reinforcement wyvern, which is kinda rude. I guess as long as it's not an ambush reinforcement it's fine. Innes can just snipe this guy.



I want to take a stab at killing Valter without having him use his elixir, and Garcia seems like he has a shot.



He gets it.



Cormag moves up to fight the three units near the lower destroyed village and levels.



You know, Saleh, I was talking you up earlier, and this is how you repay me?



I get Amelia into a sticky situation where she faced chance of death, but a quick bit of trading a physic staff around solves that quick.





However, that fear was unfounded, since Amelia couldn't have died even if the warrior hit, and he missed and got murdered in return. Good start for the first promoted level, too.



Oh hey, look, the turn 8 reinforcement crew showed up. They're going to be creeping their way up slowly but surely and are going to be a pain in my rear end for a while. Thankfully, Rennac has a bunch of move so he could run away from mounted units, but I elect to instead have him run up to where Tana is and just get rescued. I also rescued Cormag, since there's basically nothing left for him to deal with down there, and that gets him to healing faster.



By this point, we've basically cleared out everything except that reinforcement group down there and Caellach.



And then next enemy phase brings some more reinforcements, of course. Now, since we're getting close to dealing with Caellach, let's look at him.





+20 HP, +2 STR, +7 SKL, +5 SPD, -1 LCK, -1 DEF, -1 RES, and he went from a tomahawk to a hand axe. Not sure why this hack is buffing bosses and downgrading their equipment. Then again, I don't think the vanilla bosses got elixirs, so maybe it's a weird balancing act.



We start doing some chip damage, but since Caellach is on a fort, that's just getting healed back up again, so not an optimal plan here. Killing him will probably have to involve Garm in some capacity.



More of these guys.



Cormag swoops in and prevents the big squad from being a major problem. Since he doesn't take effective damage from the rangers, he should be fine.



Oooh, nice! L'Arachel will loving love this.



A wyvern getting tinked by a ranger. Ain't it grand?



Oh hey, apparently the ruined villages are treasure locations. Neat!



Garcia fights the remaining reinforcement knights and picks up a very nice level.



Duessel gets to fight Caellach on enemy phase with Garm, and while both miss, I like those odds.



One very annoying thing: Cormag barely doesn't kill the commander, and he has an elixir as well. So he's going to be annoying by healing himself.



Tethys gets a solid level from healing.



Oooh, nice!

Icarus Bow: Sniper only. Rank A. Range 1-2. Weight 9. Might 12. Hit 70. Crit 15. 50 uses.

OK, so there's class weapons in this hack. I don't know if I ever brought it up in an update, so here it is officially: Every class has certain weapons only they can use, and this is one of the sniper weapons. It's pretty great! A 1-2 range bow does make a sniper more interesting, though I still don't think Innes has real long-term potential, since so far I only have one of these and I'd probably need more for the long run.



At this point, I do some dumb poo poo, like trying to let Marisa of all people do some damage and then rescuing Duessel instead of Marisa, forcming me to scramble a bit.



Thankfully, I have enough Canto-capable units around that this isn't a problem.



Eventually, it gets pretty crowded as I just pile in units trying to get the killing blow on Caellach, and eventually Cormag does him in.



And he gets a level too!



Thankfully, I still have that commander unit to deal with, because that lets Rennac reach the other village and pick up another item.



I try to set up a kill for Marisa on the commander, but L'Arachel crits and takes it instead.





Two more legendary weapons!

Audhulma: Rank E (previously S). Range 1-2. Weight 9. Might 20. Hit 100. Crit 20. 30 uses.
Ragnarok: Rank E (previously S). Range 1-2. Weight 11. Might 20. Hit 100. Crit 20. 30 uses.

Seems like all the legendary weapons have been drastically standardized. Fine by me.



And that's it for this chapter! Next time, poo poo goes south for me very quickly.

LiefKatano
Aug 31, 2018

I swear, by my sword and capote, that I will once again prove victorious!!
I like how Sure Strike was of questionable use in vanilla Sacred Stones and this hack doubles down on that by having it naturally increase the character's hit rate too.

WrightOfWay
Jul 24, 2010


TheMcD posted:

Vanguard:

- Terrain avoid bonuses increased by 50%
- Gain 3 damage reduction when wielding a light brand or soul brand
- Gain 5 damage reduction when wielding a peacemaker
- Immune to Paladin's Crusade ability


Do Mage Knights get swords? The Light Brand/Soul Brand stuff implies they do.

TheMcD
May 4, 2013

Monaca / Subject N 2024
---------
Despair will never let you down.
Malice will never disappoint you.

WrightOfWay posted:

Do Mage Knights get swords? The Light Brand/Soul Brand stuff implies they do.

They get those swords. And only they get those swords. So they might as well just be an extension of magic.

scavy131
Dec 21, 2017

TheMcD posted:

They get those swords. And only they get those swords. So they might as well just be an extension of magic.

That seems both extra goofy and a double middle-finger to sword users who lost their only ever options for 1-2 range weapons.

Explopyro
Mar 18, 2018

TheMcD posted:

They get those swords. And only they get those swords. So they might as well just be an extension of magic.

I think they even show up in the anima tab in the convoy! They're no longer swords in any meaningful sense.

They're pretty good (including effective damage against relevant unit types, which might not be clear from the item descriptions) and they have cool animations, but I never thought they were quite worth choosing an inferior promotion path for. I'm really curious to see how Mage Knight Ewan works out.

I really dislike what this hack did to Generals, and IIRC I promoted Gilliam and then ended up almost immediately benching him. Dragon Lords are much better as a defencive unit and don't have the crippling movement limitations.

I didn't end up using Innes (my archers were Neimi and Garcia), though I definitely considered it just for the novelty, I like Innes. In addition to the Icarus Bow, they can also use portable ballistae, so they're very similar to magic users now. The problem is... magic users still do everything archers do, only better, even after all these buffs. And magic users all have staff utility. At least Rangers have Ambush and horse movement...

Edit:

scavy131 posted:

That seems both extra goofy and a double middle-finger to sword users who lost their only ever options for 1-2 range weapons.

Hey, they still have an option! Audhulma is 1-2 range. I don't think that really counts though.

Explopyro fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Feb 17, 2021

Nihilarian
Oct 2, 2013


I have no idea what a peacemaker does because i never found one.

Nihilarian fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Feb 17, 2021

TheMcD
May 4, 2013

Monaca / Subject N 2024
---------
Despair will never let you down.
Malice will never disappoint you.

Nihilarian posted:

I have no idea what a peacemaker does because i never found one.

3 tile range, high chance to put every enemy unit in the range to sleep. One use. 30K gold to buy. I never tried one out before myself.

Explopyro
Mar 18, 2018

It also causes the game to lag horribly if you have one equipped on enemy phase, for some reason (making the defensive bonuses it confers rather pointless).

I think it's a reskinned version of the Nightmare weapon (or was it a staff?) that the Demon King had in vanilla. That said, I've never actually seen that get used.

Keldulas
Mar 18, 2009
Peacemaker sounds massively gimmicky to the degree of pointlessness.

I ended up giving that Dragon Tear to Knoll to use him (it helps that Moulder/Natasha/Artur all turned out absolutely awful, so I wanted to replace them). Plus I'm doing a sort of run gimmick in that I basically had everyone promoting to a different class if possible so I could see how they resulted. Knoll's doing alright as a Summoner, they gain Anima magic now for some reason, which is surprisingly useful since I feel Anima has the best advanced magic options.

Only class I'm not running is General, because I already seen that as an enemy and was not impressed, plus I didn't want to completely kill Gilliam's usefulness.

Here's where my "Huhhhhh?" on the hack's balancing comes in. They buff Saleh to basically be Pent from FE7.... and stick Innes in basically the same situation as Louise. Notice how Saleh has basically superior stats than Innes in most of the important aspects. And he's a Sage, not a derp-rear end garbage Sniper. They were already buffing people, why did they give Innes the finger?

I'm using Saleh on the same reasoning of my healers largely turning out garbage despite being leveled to 20. He's useful out of the box, and Sage remains probably the best mage class for combat (especially now they can use Flux, aka the best basic magic attack). Flux is 9 mt/80 hit vs Fire's 5 mt/90 hit, which is a pretty big boost.

Marisa... is basically showcasing why the myrmidons have no chance in this hack. So much trouble to raise, absolutely no reason to use them. I still don't understand why you're doing so much early promotion considering how much experience there is in this hack, but whatever.

Nihilarian
Oct 2, 2013


Explopyro posted:

It also causes the game to lag horribly if you have one equipped on enemy phase, for some reason (making the defensive bonuses it confers rather pointless).

I think it's a reskinned version of the Nightmare weapon (or was it a staff?) that the Demon King had in vanilla. That said, I've never actually seen that get used.
Nightmare is a Staff in the same way the various other monster magics are Dark. I messed around a bit with it in FEBuilder and it wasn't that hard to make it usable by players. Didn't do a lot of bug testing on it though

TheMcD
May 4, 2013

Monaca / Subject N 2024
---------
Despair will never let you down.
Malice will never disappoint you.

Keldulas posted:

I still don't understand why you're doing so much early promotion considering how much experience there is in this hack, but whatever.

Why not? Promoting makes units better quicker, and it's not like they're going to level cap in the regular campaign anyway. And the postgame makes the level cap pointless. Besides, unpromoted units have an even lower stat cap in this hack, so there's even more reason to promote early. Plus a movement boost (for a lot of promotions) and useful skills... promoting is good, IMO. Promote early, promote often.

Keldulas
Mar 18, 2009
I feel you're actually making it harder on yourself at the moment due to how much more slowly promoted units gain levels compared to unpromoted ones. But that's your perojative.

The unpromoted stat cap argument would have more weight if you didn't promote so many of them before any stat caps were hit period.

Nihilarian
Oct 2, 2013


XP is literally infinite in fe8 so who cares

vilkacis
Feb 16, 2011

My reaction to this hack has been constantly fluctuating between "that's baffling" and "that's dumb".

Maybe the postgame will be interesting but as far as the original campaign goes, i really don't like it.

Funky Valentine
Feb 26, 2014

Dojyaa~an

I feel like reducing Generals' speed cap is a result of someone not understanding what problems people have with Knights/Generals.

marshmallow creep
Dec 10, 2008

I've been sitting here for 5 mins trying to think of a joke to make but I just realised the animators of Mass Effect already did it for me

You know how generals in these games have their weapons on chains? Let them have an attack that grapples them to a target. Let them have 1-2 or 1-3 range attacks with any weapon and optionally teleport in front of, dare i say, behind opponents with grapple hook.

Cattail Prophet
Apr 12, 2014

marshmallow creep posted:

Let them have 1-2 ... range attacks with any weapon

I'm like 80% sure I remember there being a hack (I think it might have actually been technically-not-a-hack 7x) that does this.

FoolyCharged
Oct 11, 2012

Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!
Somebody call for an ant?

Am I the only one who saw the res/spd nerfs on generals and laughed because 1: they nerfed the general of all things and 2: Gilliam ain't coming anywhere near even the reduced caps anyway.

Weeble
Feb 26, 2016
That speed cap nerf seems to be aimed at General Amelia, really.

The speediest of Generals.

FoolyCharged
Oct 11, 2012

Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!
Somebody call for an ant?

Weeble posted:

That speed cap nerf seems to be aimed at General Amelia, really.

The speediest of Generals.

General has separate male/female classes and caps unless the mod changed it's Those caps wouldn't touch her.

Nihilarian
Oct 2, 2013


FoolyCharged posted:

General has separate male/female classes and caps unless the mod changed it's Those caps wouldn't touch her.
stat caps are no longer different for male and female versions of the same class

Explopyro
Mar 18, 2018

Nihilarian posted:

stat caps are no longer different for male and female versions of the same class

Except Assassin, because reasons. (female Assassins get 22 strength, males 20. that's the only difference.)

I don't get it either.

Bogart
Apr 12, 2010

by VideoGames
gently caress Myrmidons

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TheMcD
May 4, 2013

Monaca / Subject N 2024
---------
Despair will never let you down.
Malice will never disappoint you.

Update XVIII - Things Go Bad

So, I am doing a change from this update on. I will only go over my resets at the end, and only show off the winning attempt. I am doing this for a loving reason. Now, first of all, we have a new unit!







Myrrh - Manakete:

STATS:

LV: 1
HP: 30 (+15)

MAG: 3
SKL: 3 (+2)
SPD: 5
LCK: 5 (+2)
DEF: 2
RES: 7

MOV: 6
CON: 9 (+4)

GROWTHS:

HP: 150% (+20%)

MAG: 80% (-10%)
SKL: 80% (-5%)
SPD: 80% (+15%)
LCK: 35% (+5%)
DEF: 80% (-60%)
RES: 80% (+50%)

CAPS:

HP: 60

MAG: 20
SKL: 20
SPD: 25 (+5)
LCK: 30
DEF: 20
RES: 20

Weapon ranks: A light, A dark.

Dragonstone: No rank. 1-2 Range (formerly 1 range). 0 Weight. 20 Might (+4). 100 Hit. 20 Crit (+5). 30 uses (-20). Effective vs. monsters. Bonuses: +10 HP, +10 MAG (-2), +10 SKL (-2), +5 SPD (+5), +15 DEF, +15 RES (-5).

Hoo boy, quite a few changes with Myrrh here. She got a lot more HP, which is helpful, her growths got balanced (in particular giving her a huge RES buff and DEF nerf, which I think I like), she can be a lot speedier now with the +5 to the cap and +5 to the dragonstone boosts, which means she can actually be maximum dodgy, so she has perfect endgame potential. And yes, the dragonstone is 1-2 range now. And yes, Myrrh now has A rank in light and dark magic and can totally just use tomes. Now, that of course comes with the problem that you're just going off her attributes then without the dragonstone boosts, but it can be really useful for dealing with fodder.

...not that we'll have a lot of fodder to deal with where we're going. Still, I can tell you that dragonstones are replenishable in the postgame, so we can use her as a get out of jail free card for a while here (and boy, do I ever do that this chapter). Plus, Myrrh actually has a second weapon, but we'll have to wait for a while to see that.





At some point in my multiple resets, I got tired of schlepping along unpromoted Marisa and Tana, figuring that if they were ever going to contribute, I'd need to promote them. There just is no room for unpromoted units anymore (Knoll is very very close to getting a level, so I take him along, have him attack one unit, get his level, then promote next turn, so that'll be during the map). So in my winning attempt, they'll be promoted (but not in the map shot, because I took that footage early). Now, Swordmaster:

CAPS:

HP: 60

STR: 23 (+1)
SKL: 26 (-4)
SPD: 30
LCK: 30
DEF: 22
RES: 24 (-1)

Swordmasters have S swords, obviously, and now have 7 (+1) move.

Tempest Assault:

- +30 CRT

Straightforward. Nothing much changed here.





I thought about making her a Wyvern Knight, but I'm just not a big fan of Pierce. Might be a mistake, but whatever. I want the three falcoknight squad for maximum triangle attack shenanigans. I'm sure I can do something with that.



Now, on to the chapter.





Can you tell that this chapter caused me a lot of problems? Can you tell yet? Well, whatever, happy thoughts, it's done now. I have footage of me beating this chapter and I don't have to do it again. Let's go.



Cormag takes the lead for now on the northwest side. This is not ideal because of the heroes, but it worked this run, so whatever.



In general, Tethys takes the mage knight and Gerik takes the sniper. The bishop alone isn't a major problem, even if I can't take him out right now.



L'Arachel levels taking out one of the two great knights in the middle group's starting area.



Ewan picks up a level damaging one of the heroes.



In the end, this group does fairly badly (fueled by Duessel missing a silver axe hit that could've killed someone), but it could be fine, since the units at the front are somewhat survivable and stacked up. Normally I want at least three if not all four dead.



Knoll picks up his turn 1 level. Clearly this portended that this was the run of destiny.



Myrrh gets her first of many levels taking out the hero Knoll injured.



And we clear out the first group and should be set up fairly well for the arrival of the next group on enemy phase.



Ross gets a level taking out one of the warriors.



Marisa's job right now is eating Purge crits and healing back up.



Ross dodges two 30~40 hit chances at death because both warriors hit him on ~40 hit chances. Oh well, it was about time something broke my way on this.



This valkyrie loves heaing up almost dead units. That healing bonus for valkyries of course doesn't just help us.



Next player phase, Cormag levels taking out the mage knight, meaning the bishop is the only one left in there. Should be fine from now on and we can concentrate on that warrior/hero group.



This time the strat is to use Gerik. I used him once before here in this chokepoint and he did great, so let's see if that works again.



Southern group cleans up their area (albeit with another 80 hit Duessel miss) and start working on the roadblock generals. Should be largely cleaned up by the time the eastern group arrives. I wonder if I should start calling them Army Group West, Army Group Center and Army Group East. Clearly crossing over my parallel running LPs is the right move here.





Alright, never mind that, let's just promote Knoll.

CAPS:

HP: 60

STR: 26 (-1)
SKL: 27
SPD: 26
LCK: 30
DEF: 23 (+3)
RES: 24 (-4)

Summoners gain access to anima magic and staves. A dark and anima, C staves.

Summon:

- Can summon one phantom at a time

Well, that was to be expected. We'll check out phantoms next turn, when I summon one.



Shoutouts to Ephraim for eating the low-probability crit I'm guaranteed to get every run. I'll get you to level 20 this map yet.



Gerik's set up great to take in one hero and warrior, killing the warrior and leaving the hero ripe for the picking while not running any risk of killing himself by killing enemies. We'll be slower, but safer. And after losing the amount of runs I've lost before, safe is good.



Also, reinforcements start with this great knight and druid. There's going to be a steady stream from this area heading right for us and we better be ready.



Top group gets a bit bogged down since Gerik needs healing and therefore we don't have enough damage to take out the hero, but again: Safe is good.



Ewan picks up the first chest with the key he got from the valkyrie. Stat boosters are always good, there's always somebody that can use them. Probably Knoll, his luck is still garbo.



Thankflly Duessel is a defensive machine and so these valkyries can take their high crit rate and shove it up their rear end.



OK, next turn then. This turn I needed to heal Ephraim so a surprise siege tome doesn't murder him.



The right group and center group meet up as we start working on the road blocks.



AI turn order saves my rear end here. First the Bolting sage, then the Eclipse sage. Both hit. Had it been Eclipse first, I think Garcia would've been dead? 37 HP to start, Eclipse takes 19 HP (it rounds up, apparently), leaving Garcia with 18... the exact damage the Bolting sage did. Man, I would've been loving pissed if that happened.



Another great knight and druid pair.



Left group sets up in a way that the last warrior can't cause serious harm. So we pretty much secured this area now.



Ephraim caps level by slaughtering a general.



Another Myrrh level.



Natasha levels from healing.



Alright, now let's talk about phantoms. They've been given a bit of an overhaul, presumably because given the increased enemy numbers, eating a single attack isn't really helpful.







So they got a bit of an upgrade.

CAPS:

HP: 60 (+59)

STR: 25 (+5)
SKL: 25 (+5)
SPD: 25 (+5)
LCK: 30 (+10)
DEF: 20 (+20)
RES: 20 (+20)

They now have actual stats, starting at 15 flat. So now they can actually contribute more now, though it's a bit of a double-edged sword in that you can't just fire and forget with phantoms anymore - you can't rely on them drawing some fire and dying, letting you deploy another one somewhere else. Instead, you might end up with a phantom killing two units it was supposed to die to, then struggle to keep up with the action. Let's check out their growths (for Knoll / Ewan / Lyon in that order):

GROWTHS:

HP: 100% / 100% / 100%

STR: 40% (-10%) / 60% (-10%) / 50% (-10%)
SKL: 50% / 50% (+10%) / 50% (+5%)
SPD: 60% (+20%) / 30% (+10%) / 50% (+20%)
LCK: 50% (-5%) / 70% (+30%) / 50% (+20%)
DEF: 30% (+30%) / 40% (+40%) / 20% (+20%)
RES: 30% (+30%) / 20% (+20%) / 40% (+40%)

So basically:

- Knoll's phantom is speedy on offense and balanced on defense.
- Ewan's phantom hits hard on offense and focuses on physical defense.
- Lyon's phantom is balanced on offense and focuses on magical defense.

Overall, though, there's not really a super big difference. So I prefer having Ewan be a more offensive-focused frontliner class while Knoll can do the summoner duty.



Duessel shows his frontline value by tanking hits like nobody's business.



Next player phase, Gerik levels up killing one of the two great knights in the upper group.



And with Rennac able to safely open the door, Tana can start shanking that bishop. He'll be gone soon.



Another kill, another level for Myrrh.



L'Arachel double crits to annihilate a hero and get this level.



The phantom starts heading down to greet the reinforcements that will soon come. Amelia is chilling on a staircase because a swordmaster will pop out otherwise, and I can't be hosed to deal with that.



Since we cleaned up the main force harassing us in the center, Duessel heads up to harass the siege tome sages.



Lute kills a hero on enemy phase and levels.



The status staves make their presence felt. I think I want to take these guys out before they're too much trouble.



The reinforcement squad arrives!



As do the falcoknights with killer lances!



And of course another great knight and druid pair.



Gerik heads back down to meet the falcoknights.



And Cormag and Tana manage to clear out the northwest corridor, finally.



Hey, look, another Myrrh level.



Since I'm having a few too many units low on HP and not enough healing to go around, L'Arachel gets to take her nice new staff for a spin. This thing basically heals everything. I have no idea how much it heals, but I don't think I've seen anything a L'Arachel Fortify doesn't heal to max so far.



We start to fan out through the throne room a fair bit. This is usually a sign that I'm either going to die or about to have the map fully under control.



Go, phantom, go!



Duessel gets a great level for a disgraceful showing where he again missed a kill because of a silver axe miss and even ate a crit in return. Of course, because he's Duessel, that crit wasn't even half his HP.



If you're squeamish about wasted EXP, phantoms are not for you. This guy's putting in work.



Did you know that apparently great knights can do triangle attacks? Well, they can.



Gerik fights three falcoknights on enemy phase and I'm pretty sure he could've gotten killed if odds went wrong. Thankfully, he did not.



Also shoutouts to my sloppy rear end leaving Marisa dodging a 22 crit death chance.



Saleh gets silenced, which is a shame.



Another Myrrh level, this time from her just attacking a sage and getting ready to take some heat on enemy phase.



Vanessa really shows that dragon's tear wasn't wasted on her with this level.



As a whole, we've mostly cleared out the throne room bar a general that doesn't move and a sleep staff druid, though that ballista sniper is still threatening. Right now the biggest threat are the reinforcements from the east and the horde coming in from the south.



Myrrh and Natasha however have the situation in the east well in hand.



The next phantom gets ready to go.



Knoll levels after healing.



While we position ourselves to take out the last few stragglers, the phantom does good work and kills not just one, but two great knights.



L'Arachel levels after taking out the ballista archer.



We also set up on the eastern side. I know there's more reinforcements coming, and I do not want to deal with them right now.



Rennac starts grabbing some loot.



And now that we've taken out every threat around Orson, let's take a look at him.





+19 HP, +2 STR, +5 SKL, +6 SPD, +7 LCK, +4 DEF, +8 RES and immunity from effective weapons compared to vanilla hard mode. And he's not carrying a javelin like Valter, either, he's got a spear.



However, as you might have seen from his HP being a lot lower, Cormag wielding Garm is more than up to the task.



Myrrh and a new phantom get to set up as a new barrier against the horde.



Myrrh gets another level.



And Tethys gets a level healing Myrrh.





And Cormag gets one too for taking out Orson.



Rennac gets the next treasure and Ephraim is right in front of the throne, so we're ready to seize next turn.



Rennac grabs the last treasure...



...we pick up a level for Knoll fighting the horde...



...and then seize. And since we've now finished the chapter...



...we get some promotions!

CAPS:

HP: 60

STR: 30 (+3)
SKL: 30 (+4)
SPD: 25 (+1)
LCK: 30
DEF: 25 (+2)
RES: 22 (-1)

Resolve (Ephraim ver.):

- Immunity to anti-horse effective weapon bonus damage
- Half of equipped weapon's might is added to attack power



CAPS:

HP: 60

STR: 25 (+1)
SKL: 30 (+1)
SPD: 30
LCK: 30
DEF: 22
RES: 25

Resolve (Eirika ver.):

- Immunity to anti-horse effective weapon bonus damage
- +30 CRT

Both promoted lord classes now have 8 move.





And we get some new weapons!

Siegmund: Rank Prf (Ephraim only). Range 1. Weight 10 (-1). Might 20 (+3). Hit 100 (+20). Crit 20 (+20). 30 uses. STR +5, SPD +5, RES +5, effective against monsters, negates criticals.

Sieglinde: Rank Prf (Eirika only). Range 1. Weight 8 (-1). Might 20 (+4). Hit 100 (+20). Crit 20 (+20). 30 uses. STR +5, SKL +5, RES +5, effective against monsters, negates criticals.

That "negates criticals" part can come in very handy.



And that'll be it for this chapter. Next time, something that hopefully doesn't give me as many fits. But before that...

-------------------------------------

RESETS:







Franz leading the attack on the northwest corridor was a terrible idea, as him eating an attack by a hero, a crit Purge and a sniper shot show.

Resets: 5







Gilliam was also a terrible idea, and he was just dead in multiple ways, that Purge crit wasn't even necessary if the other warrior had hit. Turns out high defense starts to not matter when the enemies are promoted and packing silver because guess what? You don't get to have 40 defense. This basically convinced me that a promotion wasn't enough for Gilliam to continue being on the squad.

Resets: 5 6





This was just dumb. I knew the moment I put Natasha there that she was going to die. I hoped that I would maybe get lucky, but I did not. At least this was right at the beginning.

Resets: 5 6 7







I think Lute could've survived this if I had healed her up, but I needed to use Natasha to kill a sage Lute couldn't kill, so I think this was just screwed either way.

Resets: 5 6 7 8





This one just pissed me the gently caress off. This was all the way at the end, I already had killed Orson and could've seized at any time, but I wanted to try and get the chests with Rennac. And then this loving hero just shows up, goes "Hey you remember I get big rear end bonuses against wyverns, right?", and hits on loving 4 crit. That was just complete garbage.

Resets: 5 6 7 8 9





On this one I was just sloppy because I was pissed off. No reason for me to leave Ewan out that far. That was just stupid.

Resets: 5 6 7 8 9 10







And this one was probably the same thing. I was too aggressive in trying to take out the status staves and as a result put Franz in a really dumb position where he just got shredded.

Resets: 5 6 7 8 9 10 11







I really thought I had something with Cormag in the northwest corridor, but it was only here that I actually remembered the bonus heroes get against wyverns and realized this was the stupidest idea.

Resets: 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12

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