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well why not posted:I'm sure we'd all prefer Leto removed, for sure. Even if ZS wanted Leto out, it's probably not quite as easy to replace or recast Jared Leto as it is Chris D'Elia. Leto is a full-on A-Lister and I'm pretty sure D'Elia wrote parts of his own Wikipedia page. If he wanted to break everyone's minds, he could have gotten Joaquin Phoenix.
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Feb 15, 2021 03:17
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AccountSupervisor posted:One of my favorite parts of Supermans first encounter with Batman in BvS he treats and looks at him like hes this pathetic weirdo he can barely stand to talk to and generally feels disgusted that he, a literal God on Earth, has to tell the weird vigilante to stop being a sadistic nut. Clarks facial expressions say it all.
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Feb 15, 2021 03:19
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roffels posted:If he wanted to break everyone's minds, he could have gotten Joaquin Phoenix. Maybe! That would've been great, but what I am getting at is that there's quite possibly terms in Leto's contract regarding where and when he's going to show up in WB properties.
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Feb 15, 2021 03:22
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McCloud posted:There's a big difference between finding some heroes relatable and their actions being a power fantasy. They overlap at times yes, but they are not one and the same. Also key here, is that the X-men use their powers to stand up to their tormenters. The power fantasy isn't "the melodrama and angst", it's standing up to your bullies. The X-men being ostracised is relatable, the X-men using their powers to threaten the President of the United States to "Not gently caress with us" is the fantasy. The issue here I think with both Batman and the Punisher is that at the end of the day they are considered heroes. The Punisher is an 'anti-hero' but even at his worst and most disgusting he is specifically framed as being a force that targets terrible people and most versions stick hard and fast to the idea that the Punisher doesn't kill innocent people, even ones where he's horribly gutting and torturing people. You and I both would say "oh god what he did is horrible" but depending how it is portrayed it can also be designed as a power fantasy. With the reveal and with the worst violence usually targeted at horrible people it fills people's desire to be able to physically act out in a way they can't do in reality. And that's at the absolute worst. You may think that the tragic state of the character doesn't make it a fantasy but for some people the tragedy is part of the fantasy. It's weird to think of it but it is. There is an appeal someone being sad or miserable or broken but none the less having the ability to enforce their will upon the world around them. At its lightest you get Peter Parker dealing with bills and everyday problems, at its darkest you get the most excessive kinds of Punisher. The fantasy isn't just in having power how you relate to that power. Batman as presented in Batman v. Superman is a sad and broken individual who can't believe in the good of a person. He is humiliated and left feeling powerless and helpless in the face of someone stronger than him and then humbled by that same person's act of self-sacrifice. And that might be enough to defang him except... He's right. Superman in-world is a threat to the planet held in check only by Lois Lane. Literal time travel is necessary to prevent him from snapping and ravaging the world. His paranoia and fear, far from being merely the manipulations of Lex Luthor, are absolutely justified. Even beyond that when he is left powerless and humiliated he effectively pulls the equivalent of a Charles Atlas ad and comes back prepared to fight. And he wins. Straight up. He shows that he is singlehandedly capable of taking down a god as long as he goes in prepared and Superman has to be saved by the begging of his girlfriend and the unbelievable coincidence of them sharing a mother's name. Then, fresh from taking down Superman, he goes and singlehandedly kicks the rear end of an entire room full of well-trained thugs, saves Martha, helps fight Doomsday, convinces Wonder Woman to come back and helps found the Justice League. Even where he's wrong (Superman) he's still right too. (Superman in a world where Batman doesn't have the Justice League time travel does indeed become a horrific monster.) The element of weakness is there but it's also punctuated by being able to stand up after that element of weakness and prove yourself right. He misjudged Superman (except he really didn't), he was made impotent and fearful by Superman (so he responded by coming exactly one Lois Lane away from killing him), and in general his problem is shown not to be his behavior but not having a good enough plan and foreknowledge. There's arguments to be made about him being spared by Superman not just eye lasering him from space but "Batman can totally beat Superman with prep time" is a fantasy that tends to ignore that option for a reason.
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Feb 15, 2021 03:22
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Superman wasn't even trying to fight back for most of the fight. He's just trying to get Batman's attention. A recurring theme of the movie is Superman not being able to get a word in because his mere presence makes people react in wild ways. The coincidence of the mother's name isn't what stops Batman, it's the fact that he realized he became the very thing he was fighting against.
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Feb 15, 2021 03:32
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I do think the movie will have to walk a fine line in how it portrays Superman turning evil. I don't think I can really cast judgment on it yet, but I'm very curious if they will be explicit about the Anti-Life Equation, how much we'll actually see him struggling with his decisions, or what. 'Cause if it's just "oopsie Superman got hypnotized" then it would indeed paint a sad picture of just how dangerous he is to the world.
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Feb 15, 2021 03:35
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Detective No. 27 posted:Superman wasn't even trying to fight back for most of the fight. He's just trying to get Batman's attention. A recurring theme of the movie is Superman not being able to get a word in because his mere presence makes people react in wild ways. "Superman wasn't trying to kill Batman" is, as I said, not actually relevant to the Batman Beats Superman power fantasy, which almost universally just relies on the fact that Batman can kill Superman. The fight itself is based off the Dark Knight Returns fight where Batman has a power suit fueled by an entire city block, help from Green Arrow, and Superman is not actively trying to kill him and which ends with Batman dying from a heart attack (sort of) which is still held up as the ur "Batman can beat Superman" moment.
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Feb 15, 2021 03:39
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ImpAtom posted:"Superman wasn't trying to kill Batman" is, as I said, not actually relevant to the Batman Beats Superman power fantasy, which almost universally just relies on the fact that Batman can kill Superman. The fight itself is based off the Dark Knight Returns fight where Batman has a power suit fueled by an entire city block, help from Green Arrow, and Superman is not actively trying to kill him and which ends with Batman dying from a heart attack (sort of) which is still held up as the ur "Batman can beat Superman" moment. That sequence is played as Batman brutally and viscerally beating up Jesus, and imo Batman comes off as more of a bully than any kind of savior, which is very much unlike DKR where he's the underdog fighting for freedom or w/e. The context differs a lot between those two iterations. Martman posted:I do think the movie will have to walk a fine line in how it portrays Superman turning evil. I don't think I can really cast judgment on it yet, but I'm very curious if they will be explicit about the Anti-Life Equation, how much we'll actually see him struggling with his decisions, or what. 'Cause if it's just "oopsie Superman got hypnotized" then it would indeed paint a sad picture of just how dangerous he is to the world. The idea is that the death of Lois leaves Superman vulnerable to the ALE, but your latter point is kinda interesting because..well, Superman has kind of a bad trackrecord in the comics with mindcontrol 
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Feb 15, 2021 04:01
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So basically your argument boils down to Batmna can kill Superman if Superman doesn't try to fight back.
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Feb 15, 2021 04:02
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Superman barely fights back because he's trying to convince him to stop fighting. Then he gets kryptonite'd.
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Feb 15, 2021 04:04
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McCloud posted:That sequence is played as Batman brutally and viscerally beating up Jesus, and imo Batman comes off as more of a bully than any kind of savior, which is very much unlike DKR where he's the underdog fighting for freedom or w/e. The context differs a lot between those two iterations. Batman absolutely comes across as a bully in DKR. Remember that DKR Superman isn't a villain. He's there because Batman has basically declared Gotham his kingdom. This is understandable because the government sucks but Superman isn't there to Take Batman Down if he can avoid it. He doesn't want to fight him at all and tries to reason with him throughout the entire fight. When he hears Bruce's heart start to go he panics and tries to warn him and that is when he gets a crippling beatdown. And as Batman is stomping the helpless face of the man who showed him mercy, he thinks about how he wants Superman to remember how it feels to bleed and be helpless.  He absolutely does look like a bully because his goal is to make Superman feel scared and bleed. It's worth remembering the entire thing is a ploy so he can fake his death and go back into hiding. Making Superman hurt is just a side bonus.
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Feb 15, 2021 04:08
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Roth posted:Here's the mythical, logic defying way to understand that Snyder did not want to actually make a Batman movie where he gets raped: But he could've been, and that's the important thing quote:Yeah, he looks cool while he kicks a dude into a grenade he's still portrayed unsympathetically for large portions of the film. I think BvS is largely a boring and ugly movie but I think something it did that was very clever was initially portraying Batman as angelic, and Superman as a fallen angel instead (and Lex inverting that to reflect his brokebrains). Batman even gets to do the whole "Don't be afraid" thing josh04 posted:Flying is cool but the rest of this is instilling a deep, primal apprehension in me? Everyone's already said the myriad ways that these films are absolutely power fantasies but on top of that, consider also you get to bang Amy Adams and live in a cool studio apartment RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 04:19 on Feb 15, 2021 |
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Feb 15, 2021 04:14
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AccountSupervisor posted:Also its very hard to see but theres a ton of shots that they intentionally leave the curvature of the corners of the 35mm negatives in any shot theyre in. Some of the 100% CGI shots have the corners too, which I wasn't expecting. Adding imperfections to things is a common trick to make things subconsciously more real, so it's nice that they're paying enough attention to it that the stuff being added is stylistically in line with the rest of the movie. Ironically, cutting off the corners is a sign that they're not cutting corners.
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Feb 15, 2021 04:15
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ImpAtom posted:Batman absolutely comes across as a bully in DKR. Remember that DKR Superman isn't a villain. He's there because Batman has basically declared Gotham his kingdom. This is understandable because the government sucks but Superman isn't there to Take Batman Down if he can avoid it. He doesn't want to fight him at all and tries to reason with him throughout the entire fight. When he hears Bruce's heart start to go he panics and tries to warn him and that is when he gets a crippling beatdown. I'm uncomfortable with the politics of DKR but God drat if Superman wasn't fantastic in it. Just this eternally youthful pretty boy striking romance novel cover poses while everyone around him grows old (I don't think Lois even gets mentioned does she?) and while getting beaten up detecting Batman's heart going and suddenly getting worried for him, then giving a cheeky wink at his grave when he figures out the whole thing
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Feb 15, 2021 04:45
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ImpAtom posted:There is nothing not power fantasy about the Snyder movies. They represent flawed characters but that does not preclude the other because there is a large genre of power fantasy which revolves around that and uses it as melodrama fuel. There are absolutely people for who the Snyder films are fun power fantasy. You can argue they are misreading the film but when the film goes out of its way to present Batman kicking the rear end of a room full of people in brutal violent ways as Fuckin' Sweet there is at least some element of that there. To back up here a little, cause this is what stood out to me as really weird. Just to make a direct comparison here between Marvel and Snyder. Thor is straight-fowardly some god-like prince and heir apparent in some far flung future feudal society. Facing jealousy, spite and hatred from his brother Loki on his journey towards learning to rule with humility. Clark/Kal is a child natural birth under a society driven by a strict caste and eugenics system that reinforce each other to a point of planetary and societal death. His parents' love is the only thing that saves him from a doomed fate. Where he goes on to save his adopted parents/planet from fascists who appear like ghosts from his past and an unwritten future - Not even to mention the major difficulties he faced growing up and coming to terms with who he is and what he can do. I don’t know what the hell this normal people stuff is.
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Feb 15, 2021 04:47
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ImpAtom posted:Batman absolutely comes across as a bully in DKR. Remember that DKR Superman isn't a villain. He's there because Batman has basically declared Gotham his kingdom. This is understandable because the government sucks but Superman isn't there to Take Batman Down if he can avoid it. He doesn't want to fight him at all and tries to reason with him throughout the entire fight. When he hears Bruce's heart start to go he panics and tries to warn him and that is when he gets a crippling beatdown. DKR Superman has willingly become an enforcer of a corrupt US government, he's there because Reagan ordered him to apprehend Batman because he's making the government look bad, and whos actions are framed as trying to take back a city that's been more or less ceded to crime. This is in stark contrast to the BvS Superman who's there to try to talk some god drat sense into this weirdo so they can save his mom and where Batman eventually surrenders because even he realizes how far off the deep end he went.
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Feb 15, 2021 05:10
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Ignoring the idea that Tony Stark isn't a power fantasy (lol), I think people get confused by this idea of Zack Snyder supporting the Great Man view of history because they don't really understand the nature of storytelling. A character like Superman would represent an unfathomable paradigm shift in how we understand humanity's place in the universe. Superman is basically that idea of a Great Man made manifest. He not only wields power beyond the ken of every single other person on Earth, but his very existence would inspire cults, devotion, and whatever else. The Great Man view of history supposed that individuals were the ones who affected the world via their superior intellect, strength, or whatever else. Now, we understand that this isn't true, and that much of history is dictated more by societal influences, and so on. But our understanding of history has never dealt with someone who could fly over and melt the icecaps on a whim. It's never did with someone who can dictate to nations without fear of reprisal. It's never dealt with actual demigods. The thing I really appreciate about Snyder's superhero work is that he appears to understand that the sheer existence of 'the Superman' would be a radical event that would inspire awe across the whole world.
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Feb 15, 2021 05:28
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That's one of the parts I find most interesting too. "Mankind Is Introduced To The Superman" would trigger off a chain of events that'd dwarf any other in history. Metropolis getting microwaved like a spoon would be bigger news than 9/11 and the moon landing combined. It's like that bit at the end of The Avengers where people copy Tony Stark's stupid chin-enhancing goatee, except considered for more than like 5 seconds. well why not fucked around with this message at 05:34 on Feb 15, 2021 |
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Feb 15, 2021 05:31
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Anyway, once I get this superhero novel published I'll be able to stand at the side of Daddy Snyder and be accused of being an objectivist frat-bro.
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Feb 15, 2021 05:36
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:Anyway, once I get this superhero novel published I'll be able to stand at the side of Daddy Snyder and be accused of being an objectivist frat-bro. You too?
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Feb 15, 2021 05:41
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If you've posted ITT, you are an objectivist frat-bro now.
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Feb 15, 2021 05:51
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Thats fine. All I’ve done is done things for myself at this point
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Feb 15, 2021 05:53
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:Ignoring the idea that Tony Stark isn't a power fantasy (lol), I think people get confused by this idea of Zack Snyder supporting the Great Man view of history because they don't really understand the nature of storytelling. A character like Superman would represent an unfathomable paradigm shift in how we understand humanity's place in the universe. Superman is basically that idea of a Great Man made manifest. He not only wields power beyond the ken of every single other person on Earth, but his very existence would inspire cults, devotion, and whatever else. The Great Man view of history supposed that individuals were the ones who affected the world via their superior intellect, strength, or whatever else. Now, we understand that this isn't true, and that much of history is dictated more by societal influences, and so on. Exactly. I share this same sentiment and this is a fantastic write up.
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Feb 15, 2021 06:02
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The Superman of MoS should be understood as the Man (plural) of Tomorrow. The movie places such an enormous emphasis on Superman's background and upbringing, and all the people who guide and influence him, and the onlookers and bystanders who implicitly give him strength to win the final fight, because the actual question of the movie is if and how the collective power of humanity should be deployed against the various disasters approaching us.
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Feb 15, 2021 06:07
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:A character like Superman would represent an unfathomable paradigm shift in how we understand humanity's place in the universe. Superman is basically that idea of a Great Man made manifest. He not only wields power beyond the ken of every single other person on Earth, but his very existence would inspire cults, devotion, and whatever else. quote:Human beings have a horrible track record of following people with great power, down paths that lead to huge human monstrosities. We have always created icons in our own image. What we've done is we project ourselves on to him. The fact is, maybe he's not some sort of devil or Jesus character. Maybe he's just a guy trying to do the right thing. quote:We're talking about a being whose very existence challenges our own sense of priority in the universe. And you go back to Copernicus where he restored the sun in the center of the known universe, displacing Earth. And you get to Darwinian evolution and you find out we're not special on this earth. We're just one among other lifeforms. And now we learn that we're not even special in the entire universe because there is Superman. There he is, an alien among us. We're not alone.
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Feb 15, 2021 06:08
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That always bothered me about Thor in the MCU. He's the closest thing to Superman in the MCU, he's no secret, and there are others like him openly walking around Earth by the time of Endgame, but at most people like to pose with him for selfies and he plays Fortnight (how funny and not self-serious!). They don't do anything interesting with the fact that god aliens live among them.
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Feb 15, 2021 06:17
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McCloud posted:DKR Superman has willingly become an enforcer of a corrupt US government, he's there because Reagan ordered him to apprehend Batman because he's making the government look bad, and whos actions are framed as trying to take back a city that's been more or less ceded to crime. This is in stark contrast to the BvS Superman who's there to try to talk some god drat sense into this weirdo so they can save his mom and where Batman eventually surrenders because even he realizes how far off the deep end he went. There is an obvious swap between Batman defending the Status Quo in BvS versus Superman doing the same in DKR (which is why Batman and Superman both 'die' and then have an obvious moment at their graves) but that doesn't mean Batman wasn't acting similarly in both versions. In both cases Superman is displaying mercy and restraint which Batman uses to brutalize him with at least some genuine pleasure. In both cases Batman having Superman helpless entirely because Superman doesn't try to kill him is kind of the point. In DKR it's a bit more blunt but BvS Superman is the same guy who pulled the "do you bleed" card. brawleh posted:To back up here a little, cause this is what stood out to me as really weird. Just to make a direct comparison here between Marvel and Snyder. It is how the characters are presented. The earliest films (Iron Man and Thor) don't fit in as well because that was before they got their formula down, but you have seen them moving in that direction since. Thor has gone from a God to a schlubby overweight guy playing games with his friends. Iron Man was always a billionare but they started to position him as an antagonistic force. The bulk of the Marvel movies try very hard to focus on the Human part of their characters, not merely in the sense of having human genetics but in being 'normal.' This has always been true of Marvel comics to be fair but the movies are very true. Thor is not someone to be worshipped or feared. He's a guy you take selfies with. Iron Man is a billionare supergenius but he is mostly presented as Just Some Guy. Black Panther is probably the least 'normal' of the lot but they go out of their way to tie his actions to something relatable to the audience which is why making a youth center is treated as a significant plot point because it is more grounded than "cures cancer for the entire world and ends world hunger" despite the fact that it lessens the idea of Wakanda reaching out to the world. In comparison DC is very in on the mythology. Superman is presented as a literal god and the bulk of the interactions we see with his parents or his upbringing are colored by the "a god in a world of men' aspect. The Jesus symbolism is absolutely not subtle with him. Wonder Woman is a diety. Cyborg is a man turned into something beyond a man, no longer feeling connected to his humanity because he has been touched by godly power. Aquaman is basically Water Thor. Batman, the man amongst gods, is as much a worshipper as a member, a nonbeliever who becomes a prophet. Their primary antagonists are gods, new and old. The story is framed as mythology and while the characters have humanizing moments they come secondary to their godliness. The Flash is the closest but the only time we've seen him in Snyderverse is when he literally breaks space and time to deliver a dire warning to Batman. I'll be interested to see what his role is because the Flash seems to be the guy who is barely mentioned. This isn't wrong or bad for the DC universe. Morrison and Kirby are very much in line with the idea not merely of characters but those characters being Ideas and Concepts as much as they are people. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 06:24 on Feb 15, 2021 |
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Feb 15, 2021 06:21
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Detective No. 27 posted:That always bothered me about Thor in the MCU. He's the closest thing to Superman in the MCU, he's no secret, and there are others like him openly walking around Earth by the time of Endgame, but at most people like to pose with him for selfies and he plays Fortnight (how funny and not self-serious!). They don't do anything interesting with the fact that god aliens live among them. Makes me think of Limmy's sketch about the magic picture frame https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zww0l1BGMfc
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Feb 15, 2021 06:25
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there is nothing normal about being a war profiteer billionaire who invents futuretech power armor in a cave (WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS) and solves clean energy and builds a global response force of power-armor drones and builds enough power armors that he eventually has nanotechnology
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Feb 15, 2021 06:26
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Tony Stark wanted to build a racist planetary border wall and was later vindicated and given sainthood.
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Feb 15, 2021 06:30
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Horizon Burning posted:there is nothing normal about being a war profiteer billionaire who invents futuretech power armor in a cave (WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS) and solves clean energy and builds a global response force of power-armor drones and builds enough power armors that he eventually has nanotechnology You are pretty bluntly missing the actual point. No, Tony Stark is not a normal person but the films go out of the way to present him as one. He is a snarky quippy guy who likes Burger King and despite the fact his technology technically should revolution mankind and change who he is it really doesn't because presenting him as not meaningfully different from some guy you hang out with is part of the design. Again, it isn't about their power, it is about their presentation. You can see Whedon desperately trying to ape this in his Justice League where he tries to be #withit and have Lois Lane called thirsty and Superman taking vine videos and everyone has the same basically interchangeable attitude. Detective No. 27 posted:Tony Stark wanted to build a racist planetary border wall and was later vindicated and given sainthood. Unfortunately that is actually relatable to a significant portion of the US audience at bare minimum.
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Feb 15, 2021 06:30
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well why not posted:Maybe! That would've been great, but what I am getting at is that there's quite possibly terms in Leto's contract regarding where and when he's going to show up in WB properties. With Leto it's probably a Michael Fassbender situation - he's handsome and talented so the ugly rumours will get ignored until a shoe really drops
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Feb 15, 2021 06:31
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Detective No. 27 posted:That always bothered me about Thor in the MCU. He's the closest thing to Superman in the MCU, he's no secret, and there are others like him openly walking around Earth by the time of Endgame, but at most people like to pose with him for selfies and he plays Fortnight (how funny and not self-serious!). They don't do anything interesting with the fact that god aliens live among them. Has Marvel ever had Thor condemn the white supremacist groups that utilize Norse mythology like they did with the Punisher skull stuff?
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Feb 15, 2021 06:31
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Blood Boils posted:With Leto it's probably a Michael Fassbender situation - he's handsome and talented so the ugly rumours will get ignored until a shoe really drops Aw poo poo is Fassbender a fuckhead too? Robot Style posted:Has Marvel ever had Thor condemn the white supremacist groups that utilize Norse mythology like they did with the Punisher skull stuff? They haven't but a big part of that is that Thor has as much to do with Norse Mythology as Final Fantasy does. Beyond some names and references it's basically entirely its own thing. Punisher is a lot more, depressingly, specific. They did have him attack Tony Stark for not helping during Hurricane Katrina though because Marvel. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 06:36 on Feb 15, 2021 |
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Feb 15, 2021 06:31
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Robot Style posted:Has Marvel ever had Thor condemn the white supremacist groups that utilize Norse mythology like they did with the Punisher skull stuff? Not to my knowledge. And while they did do that with Punisher it was in the comics and the white supremacists who buy Trump Punisher skulls don't buy or read comics so it was ultimately a useless gesture.
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Feb 15, 2021 06:33
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:But our understanding of history has never dealt with someone who could fly over and melt the icecaps on a whim. It's never did with someone who can dictate to nations without fear of reprisal. It's never dealt with actual demigods. The thing I really appreciate about Snyder's superhero work is that he appears to understand that the sheer existence of 'the Superman' would be a radical event that would inspire awe across the whole world. This is something that has always irked my about the “not my Superman” line of criticism. A lot of people take issue with the distrust Clark faces in MoS and BvS but It would be extremely loving weird if the whole world just sortve decided “godlike alien is good!!!” completely independent of each other.
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Feb 15, 2021 06:37
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ImpAtom posted:Aw poo poo is Fassbender a fuckhead too? Yeah, big time https://www.indiewire.com/2018/02/michael-fassbender-abuse-allegations-sunawin-leasi-andrews-1201927946/
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Feb 15, 2021 06:39
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Ghosthotel posted:This is something that has always irked my about the “not my Superman” line of criticism. A lot of people take issue with the distrust Clark faces in MoS and BvS but It would be extremely loving weird if the whole world just sortve decided “godlike alien is good!!!” completely independent of each other. I actually understand where you're coming from here. I'm not big on "not my superman" but I can explain why that doesn't bother me in other stories. Superhero stories don't exist in reality. They exist in worlds where godlike beings exist but there is no real meaningful change in culture, history or technology. They are, for better or worse, dropped directly into the real world unchanged because they are ongoing serial stories meant to be set in some version of our reality. They are not meant to be plausible or realistic because they can't be. They would very rapidly become something far different and while that something far different could be super interesting it isn't what the stories are intended to be. (This is why Elseworlds tend to go so far in that direction because they can.) Stuff like In Astro City can do more with the concept because it isn't beholden to a realistic world that absolutely mirrors modern day. At no point do I go into a DC or Marvel story expecting realism because it isn't something they can provide. Even Snyder's films basically assume a fairly normal world despite having backstory that is anathema to that because it isn't really easy to structure and create such a world. And that is *absolutely fine.* The story is the important part, not the plausibility thereof. It's fine if that isn't the story you want to see but the reasoning behind it is that superhero stories are specifically structured not to do that, at least the kind DC and Marvel tell. Hell part of the reason Watchmen stood out and still kind of does is that it does show a world where superheroes existed and it basically changed a ton of things and even if all those changes aren't super plausible it's a world that can't be our world even in goofy little ways (like superhero comics being replaced by pirate comics.) RBA Starblade posted:Yeah, big time https://www.indiewire.com/2018/02/michael-fassbender-abuse-allegations-sunawin-leasi-andrews-1201927946/ God drat it. Well, good to know at least. 
ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Feb 15, 2021 |
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Feb 15, 2021 06:45
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ImpAtom posted:It's fine if that isn't the story you want to see but the reasoning behind it is that superhero stories are specifically structured not to do that, at least the kind DC and Marvel tell. Yeah I get that, and to your point most of my favorite comic book stories tend to be one-offs or elsewhere titles because they get to be a lot more flexible with established characters. The MCU emulates this dynamic very well. It’s been pointed out a million times but Tony Stark basically invents free energy in the first iron man movie and it’s just sortve never brought up again but they can’t ever really do that because outside of the avengers trilogy they expect most of these movies to be watched in a vacuum.
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Feb 15, 2021 06:55
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Ghosthotel posted:Yeah I get that, and to your point most of my favorite comic book stories tend to be one-offs or elsewhere titles because they get to be a lot more flexible with established characters. The MCU emulates this dynamic very well. It’s been pointed out a million times but Tony Stark basically invents free energy in the first iron man movie and it’s just sortve never brought up again but they can’t ever really do that because outside of the avengers trilogy they expect most of these movies to be watched in a vacuum. To be honest most of my favorites are too for that same reason. I *like* a lot of superhero stories that are 'in-continuity' but when my list of favorites comes up a lot of them are stand-alone.
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Feb 15, 2021 06:57
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