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CharlestheHammer posted:The shield is more fun and while I have a problem with its attempts at commentary it doesn’t have anything as bad as the Wires season 5 The Wire had a 5th Season? I seem to only recall a quick highlight reel of Snoop getting got, Marlo being Marlo, and Cheese getting his. Oh, and doesn't the knuckle dragger land some work with the lawyer, while still doing illegal poo poo for the BPD?
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Feb 19, 2021 01:51
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there’s plenty of The Wire season 5 that isn’t poo poo, unfortunately the poo poo parts are most of the two main storylines
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Feb 19, 2021 01:54
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Weirdly similar to b5 s5 now I think of it
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Feb 19, 2021 01:58
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The biggest problem with it to my mind is that Simon didn't have anywhere near the distance he needed to tell a story about the Baltimore Sun, and Ed Burns wasn't around to rein in his worst excesses like Simon was for him in Season 4 and the school storyline. Simon later noted that he was trying to make a point about how the newspaper and its employees were so caught up in their own self-importance (Gus in particular beneath the surface level "super journalist/editor" bullshit) that even when they had successes they completely failed to note actual major, giant media stories happening right under their noses. Except Simon did a really, really bad job of telling that story, especially since every other "Boss" in the other seasons gets a chance to demonstrate why they are the way they are, the forces that conspired to put them into these positions, the value they actually have in some capacities etc.... but in Season 5, the Baltimore Sun Editors are just incredibly 1-dimensional rear end in a top hat idiots who don't know anything and have dumb concerns and they smell bad too!
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Feb 19, 2021 02:02
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Yup. Totally agree with all that. We get it! You hate your old bosses!
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Feb 19, 2021 05:32
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Jerusalem posted:The biggest problem with it to my mind is that Simon didn't have anywhere near the distance he needed to tell a story about the Baltimore Sun, and Ed Burns wasn't around to rein in his worst excesses like Simon was for him in Season 4 and the school storyline. Retrospective it's actually weird that season 2 has the reputation of being the weakest season when it's easily as good as the first. Of all the seasons of The Wire 5 is easily the most out of place, as they kind of go a little too far into weird "actually its about ethics in journalism" plot.
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Feb 19, 2021 06:40
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I thought these days it was generally accepted that 2 was one of the stronger seasons?
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Feb 19, 2021 11:08
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I mean everything from 1-4 is considered amazing and then season 5 has shortcomings but still great. When I first watched it I thought I went 4-3-1-2-5.
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Feb 19, 2021 11:19
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Torquemada posted:Breaking Bad is to Mad Men as The Shield is to The Wire. Yeah? I agree with this? I sure as hell am more likely to watch Mad Men/The Wire anyway
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Feb 19, 2021 13:49
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Shageletic posted:Yeah? I agree with this? That’s why there’s no commentary, it’s just a statement.
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Feb 19, 2021 14:40
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The Shield is janky as gently caress but I know in my heart that it's the best show of all time, even if my brain thinks that's stupid.
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Feb 19, 2021 15:21
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It’s satisfying like nothing else because it builds and builds to an ending that any other show would have flunked, but it’s flawless and you just sit there going ‘gently caress’ when it’s all over. No other show mastered the concept of ‘rising action’ like it, maintaining it for seven series was nothing short of genius. On the other side of the coin, it’s not a character piece, so often the emotions and motivations are somewhat cursory.
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Feb 19, 2021 15:37
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sounds like I need to watch the shield. And the wire. (The rest of it anyway, the first season was great but I checked out before the end of s2e1 and never went back)
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Feb 19, 2021 15:58
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Season 4 of The Wire is very very good and very very sad.
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Feb 19, 2021 16:09
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To me The Wire is a show that ran until the main character Stringer Bell got killed. They then rebooted the show for a stellar season about being young black and poor in America, with special focus on the education system. They wrapped up some excellent loose ends in the fifth season (Omar, Bodie, Bubbles) but didn’t stick the landing due to a couple of main plots that wouldn’t look out of place in a CSI-level show.
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Feb 19, 2021 16:51
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I recently binged The Dick Van Dyke Show, and it's fascinating comparing how that show depicted Rob and Laura's marriage against the various shades of domestic discontent we see in Mad Men.
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Feb 19, 2021 18:34
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Torquemada posted:To me The Wire is a show that ran until the main character Stringer Bell got killed.  I'm joking, I already got spoiled on that years ago
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Feb 19, 2021 18:38
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Torquemada posted:To me The Wire is a show that ran until the main character Stringer Bell got killed. They then rebooted the show for a stellar season about being young black and poor in America, with special focus on the education system. They wrapped up some excellent loose ends in the fifth season (Omar, Bodie, Bubbles) but didn’t stick the landing due to a couple of main plots that wouldn’t look out of place in a CSI-level show. After the sledgehammer to the soul that was the fourth season, I don't think it's unfair not to begrudge the show a little bit of fun on its way out Simon telling his own story terribly is also perfectly fitting, given his critiques always stop with half-measure solutions, rather than being able to see all the way through to the systemic issues; myopia being his political calling card Schlieren fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Feb 19, 2021 |
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Feb 19, 2021 19:03
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VinylonUnderground posted:I strongly disagree. Mad Men is way more a piece of its time, to its detriment. Breaking Bad is so good it actively makes me angry every time I watch it. Mad Men is nice. Breaking Bad also never really hit a doldrums period whereas at least two seasons of Mad Men could be easily excised. It's a real Sopranos situation where it just drops like a stone for a few seasons and spins its wheels. Breaking Bad was nonstop adrenaline throughout. I honestly had to check to make sure that the guy whose prior take was that Don Draper is too much an avatar for vicarious fantasy and fuckin' Paths of Glory is effectively a pro-war film is also of the opinion that Breaking Bad and The Shield, shows singularly driven by power-abusing white suburbanite guys running over all the rules, are the best TV for being nonstop adrenaline thrill rides. Pick a lane my man UNRULY_HOUSEGUEST fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Feb 19, 2021 |
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Feb 19, 2021 21:25
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UNRULY_HOUSEGUEST posted:I honestly had to check to make sure that the guy whose prior take was that Don Draper is too much an avatar for vicarious fantasy and fuckin' Paths of Glory is effectively a pro-war film is also of the opinion that Breaking Bad and The Shield, shows singularly driven by power-abusing white suburbanite guys running over all the rules, are the best TV for being nonstop adrenaline thrill rides. Pick a lane my man yep lol I think BB is incredible, but the clockwork world plotting makes it a bit more contrived, and i can see mad men as more enduring because it's more interested in character. In Breaking Bad the characters are all to some degree subservient to the plot, which I wouldn't say for mad men. the things it does with structure and sound and visuals are still amazing, and it's not like one of them needs to suck.
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Feb 19, 2021 21:52
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This isn't the thread for it but The Shield is better than The Wire
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Feb 19, 2021 22:16
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UNRULY_HOUSEGUEST posted:I honestly had to check to make sure that the guy whose prior take was that Don Draper is too much an avatar for vicarious fantasy and fuckin' Paths of Glory is effectively a pro-war film is also of the opinion that Breaking Bad and The Shield, shows singularly driven by power-abusing white suburbanite guys running over all the rules, are the best TV for being nonstop adrenaline thrill rides. Pick a lane my man Take a look at their previous rapsheets https://forums.somethingawful.com/banlist.php?userid=170900 https://forums.somethingawful.com/banlist.php?userid=226764 All from 2020 to now across 3 accounts 2 bans, 35 probes most with an "ironic" racist/homophobic flavor to them. Hit ignore and just move on past their lovely gimmick.
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Feb 19, 2021 23:03
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sebmojo posted:I think BB is incredible, but the clockwork world plotting makes it a bit more contrived, and i can see mad men as more enduring because it's more interested in character. In Breaking Bad the characters are all to some degree subservient to the plot, which I wouldn't say for mad men. This is how I feel about it. They're both insanely good shows, but I wouldn't compare them beyond more abstract themes like "frustrated masculinity" or "apologism for antiheroic men" or whatever. Breaking Bad is Shakespeare, about Ambition and Hubris and flawed characters bringing about their own downfall. Mad Men is like...I don't know, a modern "novel of manners," or The Great Gatsby. It's interested in such different things, it feels like comparing Star Wars and Interstellar..."I mean, they're both about space, right?" I don't particularly mind that Bryan Cranston kept winning Emmys because he was actually that good on Breaking Bad. Jon Hamm probably should've won before 2015 (for S4E7 "The Suitcase"), but then I remember that in 2013, Jeff Daniels beat BOTH of them for his role on The Newsroom. And gently caress that.
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Feb 19, 2021 23:07
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Xealot posted:but then I remember that in 2013, Jeff Daniels beat BOTH of them for his role on The Newsroom. And gently caress that. That's lame as hell
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Feb 19, 2021 23:23
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UNRULY_HOUSEGUEST posted:I honestly had to check to make sure that the guy whose prior take was that Don Draper is too much an avatar for vicarious fantasy and fuckin' Paths of Glory is effectively a pro-war film is also of the opinion that Breaking Bad and The Shield, shows singularly driven by power-abusing white suburbanite guys running over all the rules, are the best TV for being nonstop adrenaline thrill rides. Pick a lane my man Just because Paths of Glory isn't an effective anti-war movie doesn't mean it isn't a good movie. A movie can be good while also failing to accomplish what it sets out to do. Mad Men is absolutely lifestyle porn created by a man who adores that kind of thing and his adoration is all over it. He's also ashamed of it. The white male power fantasy of Breaking Bad and the Shield (and the power fantasy gone awry) is great TV. I do think Breaking Bad does a better job of making Walt the villain than Mad Men does but part of that is that Walter is also "evil" in a more visceral way while Don is alienated from the evil he does much like how he is alienated from everything.
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Feb 20, 2021 01:36
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Xealot posted:It feels like comparing Star Wars and Interstellar..."I mean, they're both about space, right?" Star Wars ripped off Flash Gordon and made it better. I'd rather watch Star Wars than what it was aping. Interstellar is a shoddy 2001-like that really just made me want to watch 2001 or Sunshine again.
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Feb 20, 2021 01:37
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I mean if I’m honest I think breaking bad is a better put together show than Mad Men. But then again I think mad men is an okay show. Not great but okay
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Feb 20, 2021 01:47
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Breaking bad certainly has better cinematography, if there's one place that Mad Men falls flat it's there.
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Feb 20, 2021 02:15
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Breaking Bad definitely feels more "complete" because there's such a coherent structure to the story, a rise and fall for this one man. The bombastic or violent repercussions of Walt's choices work really well as chapter endings, so season finales are strong, and massive shifts in the status quo can happen suddenly and still feel very motivated. It's just the kind of story that lends itself to a sort of "built like a Swiss watch" reputation. I'd argue it's harder for Mad Men because its goals are so much less concrete and its setting is so restrained. It's hard to pin down exactly what it's "about," because it's about authenticity, or ennui, or desire, or identity, or self-acceptance. It has all these little existential bits that play out in subtle ways, and very little that happens is going to be extreme or shocking because how often does mundane middle-class existence look that way?
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Feb 20, 2021 02:36
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It would be interesting if there were a set of movie/tv/music awards that are only awarded ten years after release. The 2021 version would cover stuff released in 2011, etc.
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Feb 20, 2021 02:55
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Solkanar512 posted:It would be interesting if there were a set of movie/tv/music awards that are only awarded ten years after release. The 2021 version would cover stuff released in 2011, etc. Honestly half the fun with things like that is seeing how fast things fall out of fashion. Crash was 2005 and I don't think I ever saw the movie mentioned again post 2006. Similariy Green Book is probably going the same route with people while Roma, BlackKKKlansman, and Black Panther will be regularly discussed as major cinematic accomplishments for years to come. The 2000s especially for Best Picture seem pretty dire.
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Feb 20, 2021 03:11
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Hey, people talk about Crash. They mention it whenever the conversation is about crappy movies that won Best Picture!
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Feb 20, 2021 03:19
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VinylonUnderground posted:Just because Paths of Glory isn't an effective anti-war movie doesn't mean it isn't a good movie. A movie can be good while also failing to accomplish what it sets out to do. Mad Men is absolutely lifestyle porn created by a man who adores that kind of thing and his adoration is all over it. He's also ashamed of it. Walt dies killing nazis with a huge machine gun???
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Feb 20, 2021 03:59
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Ultimately I dont know what I was supposed to get out of Breaking Bad other than thrills. And that rapidly depreciates after a first watch. BB is absolutely about male power fantasies, and unlike Mad Men, doesnt satisfactorily grapple with it imo
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Feb 20, 2021 04:02
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The ultimate male fantasy. Dying alone at work penniless after destroying your relationship with your friends, family, and everyone you've ever known.
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Feb 20, 2021 04:05
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I agree with the sentiment that Breaking Bad doesn't really hold up, and it also doesn't help that its spinoff completely outshines it in pretty much every regard.
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Feb 20, 2021 04:14
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Shageletic posted:Walt dies killing nazis with a huge machine gun??? He goes out on his own terms. It's pretty much the perfect ending.
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Feb 20, 2021 04:23
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Xealot posted:Breaking Bad definitely feels more "complete" because there's such a coherent structure to the story, a rise and fall for this one man. The bombastic or violent repercussions of Walt's choices work really well as chapter endings, so season finales are strong, and massive shifts in the status quo can happen suddenly and still feel very motivated. It's just the kind of story that lends itself to a sort of "built like a Swiss watch" reputation. I wouldn’t call Mad Men restrained. It has a certain TV excess that’s a bit silly but ultimately works for a TV show
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Feb 20, 2021 11:50
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sebmojo posted:In Breaking Bad the characters are all to some degree subservient to the plot. I don't agree with this tbh. They have said they wrote the show literally episode to episode by looking at each characters motivations and writing naturally from there, rather than following a more natural structure, which led to climactic events happening in random episodes (The cousins) rather than season finales.
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Feb 20, 2021 13:29
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VinylonUnderground posted:He goes out on his own terms. It's pretty much the perfect ending. But you said BB made Walt out to be a villain? The show should have ended an episode early. Gaius Marius posted:The ultimate male fantasy. Dying alone at work penniless after destroying your relationship with your friends, family, and everyone you've ever known. Loses everything but sticks to his principles and saves the day in the end, by making the hard choices. Thats absolutely male fantasy. Like maybe divorced male fantasy lol
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Feb 20, 2021 16:09
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