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Endeavor wanting to do a good thing but filtered through his personality, social skills, and the many, truly, astoundingly awful ideas that even he recognized as bad but went ahead with anyway.
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Feb 15, 2021 05:46
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Nonexistence posted:Endeavor is like the most Gendo Ikari Hori could get away with in a much lighter work, except with a glimmer of wanting to do the right thing channelled through so, so much brokebrains Nah. They're both terrible dads, but Enji's a terrible dad in a very different direction. Enji and Gendo both are full of self-loathing, but Enji's response to his flaws is to knuckle down and try to conquer them. We see it in this chapter. When Touya's hurting himself, Enji's response is to Get Involved and Solve Things. (Which, of course, only makes things worse. I said terrible in a different direction, right?) Meanwhile, when Yui's gone, Gendo tosses his kid at the first available adult and fucks off, because he's sure he'll only make things worse. He's Shinji's bad future, all the tendency to run from pain refined into an art, where Endeavor's virtue has always been a willingness to get in and fight to the last, even when he knows it's hopeless. Shoto's torturous training is something that Shinji would envy, because it means that Shoto's father cares, even if it's in a hosed up way that treats him more as an extension of Enji's dreams rather than as a person. Hell, they're also terrible husbands in opposite ways. Gendo's obsessively in love with Yui and would burn the world to get her back... hurting other people left and right with his affairs and manipulations. (Which is why Yui ultimately couldn't forgive him. She loved Shinji, too, and Gendo failed him.) Meanwhile, Rei and Endeavor's marriage isn't exactly loveless, but it's primarily a professional arrangement. She's the mother of his children more than she's his wife, and hurting her, while unfortunate, is an acceptable price if it leads Shoto on the right path. I love doing an oversimplified capper to these things, and if I had to pick one here? I'd say that Enji's always trying to move forward, while Gendo's moving back.
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Feb 15, 2021 05:51
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Endeavor's adjusted characterization is much easier to swallow than Katsuki's because we were pretty much going on how Shoto remembers things.
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Feb 15, 2021 05:55
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It also helps that Endeavor is being an rear end in a top hat wasn't occasionally used for comedy.
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Feb 15, 2021 06:55
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We're still missing a bit more since we've seen the harsh Endeavor at the start of the manga, then the softer Endeavor we have now. We've also seen the softer Endeavor that just met Rei and wanted to train Touya, but things are about to spiral super out of control. From Shouto's other flashbacks we can see that Touya accepts Shouto's lineage, at least outwardly, but internally he's probably super devastated, so he secretly trains to try and surpass him. Of course that doesn't work and Endeavor personally shoulders the entire blame of his death, and doubles down on Shouto's training, to make sure the same thing never happens. This makes him into a massive prick and when Shouto starts to crack it probably reminds Rei of Touya, making her crack from everything she's bottling up, making her burn Shouto. This makes Endeavor double down even harder to make sure the prodigy he's been training the entire time doesn't also go off the deep end like everything else in his life. This is what I think has been going down, but we're seeing Touya crumbling, I think next chapter will end with Endeavor start to crumble. Especially when we've been seeing Endeavor getting really beaten down about All Might hogging the top spot and from where we're at with Shouto being newly born, we've still got like fifteen more years of Endeavor getting worse and worse.
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Feb 15, 2021 06:58
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Endeavor, the Sunk-Cost Fallacy Hero.
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Feb 15, 2021 07:07
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are we somehow against bakugo
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Feb 15, 2021 07:21
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Aurora posted:are we somehow against bakugo I mean, I'm pro Bakugo. I just think that Horikoshi made him more of an rear end in a top hat than he meant to early on, and has kind of been retconning that since, while Endeavor's level of rear end in a top hat has been treated as a constant, even as the circumstances around it have adjusted.
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Feb 15, 2021 07:23
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Crosspeice posted:We're still missing a bit more since we've seen the harsh Endeavor at the start of the manga, then the softer Endeavor we have now. We've also seen the softer Endeavor that just met Rei and wanted to train Touya, but things are about to spiral super out of control. From Shouto's other flashbacks we can see that Touya accepts Shouto's lineage, at least outwardly, but internally he's probably super devastated, so he secretly trains to try and surpass him. Of course that doesn't work and Endeavor personally shoulders the entire blame of his death, and doubles down on Shouto's training, to make sure the same thing never happens. This makes him into a massive prick and when Shouto starts to crack it probably reminds Rei of Touya, making her crack from everything she's bottling up, making her burn Shouto. This makes Endeavor double down even harder to make sure the prodigy he's been training the entire time doesn't also go off the deep end like everything else in his life. The chapter also does an exceptional job showing Endeavour changing from generally being 'soft' to getting angrier and angrier as All Might's success grows. EDIT: Also when talking with a friend, this chapter shows a greater context to when Endeavour looked at Deku, someone who's quirk has ruined his body, and talked about how his quirk didn't suit his body either. Initially it appears he's talking about how he can't use Hellfire when he gets overheated. Instead he's directly thinking of Touya. Onmi fucked around with this message at 13:53 on Feb 15, 2021 |
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Feb 15, 2021 11:19
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chiasaur11 posted:I mean, I'm pro Bakugo. I think there are also a greater number of people who know someone like Bakugo than know someone like Endeavor.
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Feb 15, 2021 14:40
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When do new chapters usually drop? Saturday? I know the raw and leaks are starting the rounds, but I can't recall the official release date off the top of my head. On the topic of raws, hoo boy, did Touya inherit all of Endy's worst traits and come up with some new ones on his own.
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Feb 18, 2021 18:11
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Official release is Sunday.
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Feb 18, 2021 18:23
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Thanks!
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Feb 18, 2021 18:25
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Speedscans will show up tomorrow, likely.
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Feb 18, 2021 18:37
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Speaking of speed scans: https://w21.readheroacademia.com/manga/boku-no-hero-academia-chapter-302/ Yeah, I don't see this as softening Endeavor's character much so much as it is contextualizing everything on how it all played out. Endeavor's shittiness is less one-dimensional, but it's still real loving lovely. He cuts Touya off because he actually doesn't want him to hurt himself or die (good!) and because he actually realizes he's lovely at being a father (so he's not a complete moron), then he turns around and beats Rei in front of a 5 year-old Shoto (while Fuyumi and Natsuo cower nearby) for not stopping Touya from training himself.
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Feb 19, 2021 19:09
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I had a feeling that line was going to be translated differently. One of the things Touya was complaining to Natsu about, according to the leaks, was that the women in their household were worthless, which lead to a lot of "Dabi hates women" talk, especially in light of how he blows up at Rei later on. The speed-scans worded that as "they can't understand", which makes more sense given that Fuyumi never seemed to be groomed for being All Might's replacement. Then again, neither was Natsu.
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Feb 19, 2021 19:42
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Fabricated posted:Speaking of speed scans: Yeah it's Just showing his descent to madness and self-obsession, while adding context for, frankly the things Shoto didn't have context for. Why did he separate Shoto from the kids? Because Touya attacked him as a baby. Why did he get violent with Rei? Because Touya wouldn't stop training and hurting himself, with Endeavor putting it on Rei to handle that. Are those excuses? No! It's context. He's not suddenly a good dad, but he's also no longer just "Shoto's evil dad" he's a flawed man whose pride, social ineptitude, and the circumstances of his family life drove deeper and deeper into disgusting territory until he'd thrown away his humanity. All coming to a head when the object of his obsession fulfilled itself. And he was left with nothing but the horrible things he'd done and nothing to show for it. It also recontextualizes his obsession, as he said, he became so devoted to Shoto to the point of insanity because he didn't know how else to handle Touya's 'death' The same way Rei broke down. The set of chapters have done really good showing Endeavour changing from a man into a demon. And in showing just how hosed the Todoroki family is.  
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Feb 20, 2021 03:39
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I guess that explains why he becomes fairly chill once Shoto finally starts using his fire compared to how he was in the Sports Festival Arc.
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Feb 20, 2021 03:48
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Official release out https://www.viz.com/shonenjump/my-hero-academia-chapter-302/chapter/22036?action=read drat. love this. Though imo the chapter should be called Sunken Cost Fallacy of Darkness
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Feb 21, 2021 17:23
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Dabi managed to unite his entire family under one cause, dude can't do anything right
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Feb 21, 2021 17:36
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TheHan posted:Dabi managed to unite his entire family under one cause, dude can't do anything right That's what he gets for writing off his mom.
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Feb 21, 2021 17:46
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Dr Subterfuge posted:That's what he gets for writing off his mom. once again a 20-something year old villain is defeated by being misogynist
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Feb 21, 2021 17:49
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MorningMoon posted:Official release out Huh. So the actual line WAS Dabi being hateful towards women.
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Feb 21, 2021 17:57
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It's interesting that there's this (unjustified, IMO) perception among the fanbase that Caleb is trying to translate Endeavor to sound worse than he actually is or whatever, because this translation's Enji isn't quite as harsh as the speedscan made him out to be. A couple things from this chapter that stood out to me, though, like the repeated use of "welp" and "cuz". The cleaner scans make it clear that Endeavor went looking through the remnants of Sekoto Peak for his son's body. There's still an unsolved mystery here, not only how Touya survived, but also how he got away before Endeavor found him. I'm assuming the collarbone is from someone else who died at Sekoto Peak. The final couple panels, it looks almost like Hawks is showing something on his phone to Best Jeanist.
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Feb 21, 2021 18:12
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SKULL.GIF posted:The final couple panels, it looks almost like Hawks is showing something on his phone to Best Jeanist. Hawks' throat is all gently caress up and he's been speaking through his phone most of the time.
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Feb 21, 2021 18:14
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The only thing I don't like is that it assumes any sort of responsibility lies with Fuyumi or Natsuo- but that's traditional Japanese face-saving poo poo for you. lol they were literally children, not your loving therapists Rei/Enji
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Feb 21, 2021 18:20
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Fabricated posted:The only thing I don't like is that it assumes any sort of responsibility lies with Fuyumi or Natsuo- but that's traditional Japanese face-saving poo poo for you. lol they were literally children, not your loving therapists Rei/Enji Yeah, that didn't sit well with me. Particularly the idea that any blame could rest with Shoto just for being born.
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Feb 21, 2021 18:30
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Fabricated posted:The only thing I don't like is that it assumes any sort of responsibility lies with Fuyumi or Natsuo- but that's traditional Japanese face-saving poo poo for you. lol they were literally children, not your loving therapists Rei/Enji Well they think they could have saved Toya at least. But no blame actually rests on them. While Endeavor is the root cause, they feel they could have done slightly more so things did not go as bad as they did. Blueberry Pancakes posted:Yeah, that didn't sit well with me. Particularly the idea that any blame could rest with Shoto just for being born. I don't think any blame was put on Shoto in that conversation, cause Shoto did nothing wrong.
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Feb 21, 2021 19:44
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one one hand, my (limited) understanding is that displaced blame towards yourself or other family members is pretty common in domestic abuse situations on the other hand, that's something that's supposed to be unwound as an irrational thought pattern, not embraced in a group cathartic moment
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Feb 21, 2021 19:51
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The way I read it, the other kids just feel some natural familial guilt even if realistically they're not at fault. And Rei's not blaming them for that, either, she's just saying that it's their combined responsibility in the present to deal with Toya.
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Feb 21, 2021 19:51
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The kids' feelings are super natural and fitting to how that abusive household played out, but I agree with GhostofJohnMuir that them talking about that during the cathartic scene where the family steels their resolve to defeat Toya makes it seem like the story is supporting their irrational, harmful thoughts. It doesn't ruin the scene or anything, but it's an iffy beat.
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Feb 21, 2021 19:57
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MonsterEnvy posted:I don't think any blame was put on Shoto in that conversation, cause Shoto did nothing wrong. True, but I don't know if I'd say Fuyumi did anything wrong either. Natsu, sure, but he was a kid at the time anyway and was already used to not being Endeavor's focus project.
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Feb 21, 2021 20:40
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:one one hand, my (limited) understanding is that displaced blame towards yourself or other family members is pretty common in domestic abuse situations I read it a bit differently. I see it as they still blame Endeavour, they know he is ultimately the root cause of it all but they all feel guilty that if they had been stronger or taken different actions, maybe things would have turned out different. They also realise it doesn't matter who's fault it ultimately was, because everything is crumbling around them and they don't have that luxury anymore. That's why Rei is calling Shoto the family's hero because despite all he suffered and all the well earned anger/hatred Endeavour deserves, instead of stewing on it and letting the situation get worse, he's stepping up into an incredibly difficult position that should have never been his responsibility to fix. That's why the scene worked for me, the people involved know they're not at fault and they've suffered, but they're putting it all aside to collectively to do the really difficult thing so each of them can actually heal from the past.
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Feb 21, 2021 22:41
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Asuron posted:I read it a bit differently. I see it as they still blame Endeavour, they know he is ultimately the root cause of it all but they all feel guilty that if they had been stronger or taken different actions, maybe things would have turned out different. They also realise it doesn't matter who's fault it ultimately was, because everything is crumbling around them and they don't have that luxury anymore. That's why Rei is calling Shoto the family's hero because despite all he suffered and all the well earned anger/hatred Endeavour deserves, instead of stewing on it and letting the situation get worse, he's stepping up into an incredibly difficult position that should have never been his responsibility to fix. This was my read on it, too. In the last few pages they literally say he's the root cause of poo poo, but it's obvious Natsuo feels guilty over not having been able to listen to all of Dabi's woes or stand up to his father. And to me at least, that reads like the kind of thing where any time something awful happens people tend to reflect on how things might have been different if they'd only done something differently and blame themselves in their internalized guilt. But given how he lashed out at everyone around him over anything that wasn't encouragement in his specific determined path: would any of those things actually changed the outcome? Because just by reading Touya's dialogue it seems like everything he said and did largely only served to reinforce his own obsession. Even at the end, when the whole mountain catches fire, he starts burning away at his eyes and I kind of assume that was to stop the tears he'd been ashamed of. He was at a point, long ago, where there was only one person in his family who could have done anything to stop him, his father, and Endeavor's choice was to try and breed a newer, better, child to power shame the kid into not hurting himself instead of coaching him down a better path and accepting him for what he could do. And everyone else feels worse for it because they blame themselves for not having done enough to try and help, while barely being able to hold on themselves in some cases.
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Feb 22, 2021 00:10
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SKULL.GIF posted:It's interesting that there's this (unjustified, IMO) perception among the fanbase that Caleb is trying to translate Endeavor to sound worse than he actually is or whatever, because this translation's Enji isn't quite as harsh as the speedscan made him out to be. I've been seeing some complaints about a few panels near the end, specifically the one where I think Shoto's brother says something about wishing he slugged him in the face and made him have some "serious conversations" or something along those lines. That whole line was really kind of awkward and I'm not really sure what they meant.
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Feb 22, 2021 00:15
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mabels big day posted:I've been seeing some complaints about a few panels near the end, specifically the one where I think Shoto's brother says something about wishing he slugged him in the face and made him have some "serious conversations" or something along those lines. That whole line was really kind of awkward and I'm not really sure what they meant. In the speed scans, and a cursory reading of it in japanese, Natsu is saying he should have knocked some sense into Toya. In the Viz scans he says knocked some sense into Endeavor. The actual line is 俺がぶん殴って燈矢兄と向かい合わせやれてたら Which is something like "If I could hit him and face him."
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Feb 22, 2021 00:26
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Nuebot posted:Even at the end, when the whole mountain catches fire, he starts burning away at his eyes and I kind of assume that was to stop the tears he'd been ashamed of. He says he can't make the flames stop, so I'm guessing the ones under his eyes are also an involuntary response to all the emotions running through him. But yeah, I could see those specific flames being a manifestation of the shame he feels because of the tears. Or, it could be he's so sad he's more or less crying fire. Dr Subterfuge fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Feb 22, 2021 |
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Feb 22, 2021 00:32
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Nuebot posted:This was my read on it, too. In the last few pages they literally say he's the root cause of poo poo, but it's obvious Natsuo feels guilty over not having been able to listen to all of Dabi's woes or stand up to his father. And to me at least, that reads like the kind of thing where any time something awful happens people tend to reflect on how things might have been different if they'd only done something differently and blame themselves in their internalized guilt. But given how he lashed out at everyone around him over anything that wasn't encouragement in his specific determined path: would any of those things actually changed the outcome? Because just by reading Touya's dialogue it seems like everything he said and did largely only served to reinforce his own obsession. Even at the end, when the whole mountain catches fire, he starts burning away at his eyes and I kind of assume that was to stop the tears he'd been ashamed of. That's also why I think his line in this chapter is a little more complicated than just misogyny. It's more about his obsession and trying to find a reason to dismiss anyone who tries to get in the way of that than it is about any of kind of deeply held sexist belief. What he says is still the same but it's like he gets there backwards.
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Feb 22, 2021 00:42
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I wonder if Midoriya will interact with Dabi anymore in the future or if it'll just be a Shoto and Endeavor affair. Because it's kinda interesting that Midoriya also comes from a family where he found out he was "genetically inferior" and was also born to a father with fire powers. Granted, his backstory involves less Quirks and eugenics, but it's a curious similarity.
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Feb 22, 2021 00:48
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This also at least finally explains why nobody in the family thought Dabi, a guy with blue fire, might be their dead brother, a kid with blue fire (aside from the fact that they thought he was dead). Because he didn't manifest his fire as blue until he was much older and his father never saw him use it like that.
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Feb 22, 2021 00:51
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