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The more I read the more it seems like there is a race against time to get an industrial base set up and cranking out ships before the Xenon overtake everyone. Is that accurate?
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Mar 4, 2021 21:38
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It's a bit... hard to tell honestly. Wars progress in real time so it can take real life days to figure out whether or not a push is likely to be long term successful. The main areas of ingress you would likely notice would be hatikvah's choice, because it's on the highway and the xenon gate, for some absolutely insane reason, is located right next to the highway and the northeast gate, so you end up flying through xenon fleets fairly regularly. And the other would be the teladi HQ in the northeast because they also have a xenon gate right next to the HQ, for some reason (just tow the loving thing away, guys, you can do that according to the lore) and their HQ can end up shot to pieces fairly quickly. But for the most part the xenon do not normally make that much progress, the area around the gates often gets devastated and there is the occasional breakthrough fleet that goes on a jaunt around the universe, but otherwise the world more or less continues. Of course because everything is simulated, you can upset this, because if you knock out a lot of the fleets of a faction (either personally, or by selling guns to someone who doesn't like them) you can make them more susceptible to xenon attacks, and bad luck can cause this to happen anyway. There are mods you can add to change this up too, if you want.
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Mar 4, 2021 21:56
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OwlFancier posted:It's a bit... hard to tell honestly. Wars progress in real time so it can take real life days to figure out whether or not a push is likely to be long term successful. Ok. That sounds pretty fair. Just as long as I don't have to scramble to get a military industrial complex together in 10 hours. I'd like to take my time.
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Mar 4, 2021 22:15
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You don't need to scramble, but the Xenon are not to be discounted and I think it'd be wise to at least keep an eye on them. If you have more than a handful of miners and/or traders, you might wind up deciding to reallocate them to give a boost to factions that are in trouble. In my one (probably incredibly unlucky) playthrough, the Xenon simultaneously steamrolled the Zyarth and overran most of the Hewa's Twin sectors. Prior to developing a late-game "gently caress you" money kind of economy, it was pretty tough to contain them on three fronts (let alone push back) and I wished that I'd paid closer attention to them early on.
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Mar 4, 2021 22:49
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I also had them wipe out zyarth in about a day or two but that was because I installed a broken mod that made the split very weak in combat. But once they fetched up against the teladi in the north highway loop they stalled. The main thing is that factions working as intended can lose, but it will probably take them most of the lifetime of your game to lose. Your universe can be on a downward trajectory but the scale of it can mean there should be plenty of time for you to build an economy rivalling a faction to reverse it, if you were so inclined. I generally find they strike a good balance between causing noticeable damage to sectors but not really wiping out factions. If anything both the paranid factions are often quite good at taking the fight to them, though I have yet to see them actually take a sector, but the fighting happens more on the far side of the xenon gates. They are mainly a threat, I think, to you the player if you want to set up in any of the sectors near them. And also a few of the unclaimed sectors border xenon space too. The entire eastern spur of the universe through Hewa's Twin is a bit of a xenon corridor because it only has one way through it and xenon occupied scale plate green sits at the far end, and it's quite a way from the teladi manufacturing centers. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 10:58 on Mar 5, 2021 |
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Mar 5, 2021 10:52
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It helps that factions don't snowball. Iirc each faction has a list of fleets it wants to have and where to put them. It won't exceed that list. So there's a natural limit to how dangerous a faction can become. A Xenon I with a full K and P battle group is more than capable of wrecking poo poo though. In my last game HOP took three sectors from the western Xenon and started pushing into ANT territory. I assume it happened because I set up a complete blockade in ANT space to keep Xenon from attacking my stations there and the constant drain on Xenon resources made it easy for HOP to roll in.
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Mar 5, 2021 13:20
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Thom12255 posted:Wait 200 hours until you get a 3-star pilot (not a joke lol).
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Mar 5, 2021 13:38
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:Last I checked, there are training courses for level 1 and 2 that you can buy for cheap at most merchants, so you can at least shortcut that part. The books from the station traders are for 0 and 1 star pilots. To get a pilot from 2 -> 3 stars you need to do the missions from the ANT or TEL trading guilds.
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Mar 5, 2021 13:50
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It's sad I scour the galaxy for those easy missions that give the seminars it's pretty much the only way to get a 3 star pilot. The devs are totally poo poo on this because there's so many easy fixes. As for wars it's funny that I can seem to passively affect it. Building supply stations and shipyards and suddenly all the factions are pushing into Xeon space and wiping them out. I don't build and the opposite happens.
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Mar 5, 2021 14:01
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Ok so I shouldn't be too worried then. Thanks.
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Mar 5, 2021 14:48
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You can also find some decently skilled crew walking around platforms now, basically the only way to keep half-decent marines in supply. You can even find high-skilled crew(like 4-5 stars) but they cost something absurd like 50-200 million credits. There are war missions that rewards a ship plus crew, the captain you get there is usually quite skilled Seminars...ugh. At least one seminar goes up one skill star now, they used to be 1/3 of a star
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Mar 5, 2021 16:26
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Psycho Landlord posted:Yeah TC and AP had this weird thing where the Terrans were the designated villains but, uh... well that doesn't actually hold up to any scrutiny. You don't react to an attempt to sabotage your murder AI research with the mass murder of millions and massive damage to a planet's biosphere. I thought it was because it was obvious the Terrans were going pretty obviously about to go to war with the Argon soon over the whole "researching new types of AGI" debacle? Which prompted the Argon to launch a surprise attack first. Also, the whole war was partially the Terran's fault in the first place. Since putting the national equivalent of a gun to another nation's head and threatening them with extermination if you don't do what they say is generally a really piss poor way of doing diplomacy that's liable to touch off a war more than it is actually to get someone to listen. Especially if the nation being threatened has infiltrated your country and has a history of pulling out all the stops against existential threats. Granted, the Argon were honestly wrong about their assumptions about AGI, but the Terran's whole "I will loving kill you if you disagree with me on this." strategy of foreign policy wasn't exactly the brightest or most sane way of approaching the issue. Also, what that Argon woman did was messed up. But it was obviously also intended to cripple the Terran's so they wouldn't just go genocidal all over the other races in what was already an open war against at least the Argon. Failing that, it was intended take out the Terran's last line of defense, which was also a major production center, hopefully keeping the Terrans from just slaughtering everyone in the Federation. Except no one expected the Torus to have safeties built in. So the Earth only got kind of wrecked instead of entirely wrecked. Meaning the Terran's kept a large part of their military and logistic capacity, the Terran's completely lost their poo poo (And to be fair they didn't exactly have much of it to begin with given that they were a far more technologically advanced violently isolationist state that originally shot to kill other species and nations as a matter of basic policy and were slowly becoming expansionist in trying to control the other races...So they weren't exactly the good guys either. It's just that they were entirely right about the Argon being idiots and dicking about with AGI, given how that goes in the X setting.), and proceeded to point every warship they had straight through the far side of the choke point leading to the rest of the gate network. Also, keep in mind that the Terrans are heavily implied to be a burgeoning major superpower that were implied to be technologically on the cusp of entirely busting out of the Ancient's containment systems. They were also armed to the loving teeth and had a shoot first policy on encountering other species. And even when diplomacy was opened up they had absolutely no tolerance for conflicting views. Which ironically makes them very similar to the Xenon in terms of behavior. While the Torus thing is definitely messed up, they weren't exactly the good guys either. Their behavior in earlier games was on par with the Won* in some ways. Which are basically an even more xenophobic version of the Earth State. *The X series races are only one small part of the gate network. The network is separated into realms where species interact with each other or are isolated according to the Ancient's plans. Humanity and all the other races are on the 68th realm. Notably, the Terrans were pretty much deliberately cut off from everyone until they just accidentally flipped the Ancient's the bird and proceeded to just poo poo all over their plans by inventing their own transportation systems on par with the gate network. There are a lot of alien species we never get to see. Case in point, the Won are on like the 46th realm and are entirely isolated because they are so insanely xenophobic and believe themselves to be so superior in form (Basically they're space nazis.) that the realization of other sentient life existing would wreck their society and make them engage in a never-ending omnicidal war to kill all other races in the galaxy. Hence the isolation, both for their own societal (and implied) mental stability and so that other alien races don't get slaughtered. Edit: Also, from what I recall the whole "blow up the Torus and kill tens of millions of people" thing wasn't even an official Argon state plot. Saya Kho got together with another Argon undercover agent (after she went out of her way to murder a Terran intelligence officer that had figured her out, no less) in Terran space and they workshopped the plan themselves in the hopes that it'd end the war quicker. Notably, Saya realized what she was doing was beyond hosed up and deliberately committed suicide by not wearing a space suit so that she would suffocate after the bombs went off. Except it didn't work and just made things worse, since doing what was basically space 9/11 was a fantastic way to drive the Terran's into an even greater murderous rage. 
Archonex fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Mar 5, 2021 |
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Mar 5, 2021 18:39
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the terrans did nothing wrong actually
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Mar 5, 2021 18:44
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Agean90 posted:the terrans did nothing wrong actually Hey man, I think the Terran's whole Star Trek type aesthetic is cool. But having played the earlier games it was pretty obvious the post-reunification Terrans were colossal dickheads with a penchant for murderous isolationism along with xenophobia and extreme paranoia towards artificial intelligence. I still remember them deliberately hunting down and blowing up any ships that entered their space in one of the earlier games. It's just that they were right about the Argon were being loving morons when it came to AGI. Doesn't change the fact that what little portrayal they got made them seem really shady and dangerous.
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Mar 5, 2021 19:03
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Long love terra
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Mar 5, 2021 19:06
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I bet Dal Busta loves Terran ethics.
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Mar 5, 2021 19:09
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Also I forgot the big reason why the Argon's said the gently caress with it and attacked first. The Terran's were straight up murdering Argon politicians and media figures and replacing them with spies. Like, they were straight up going all pod people on the Argon Federation to try and control it and the other nations. How do you learn of this incredibly important fact that changes the entirety of AP's story? You only learn of it if you read the X-encyclopedia. You'd think a mention of this would have been included in the actual gameplay somewhere so the Argon don't look like they're foaming at the mouth for no reason. But it ain't an X series game if the jank doesn't make it obtuse as hell at times. Archonex fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Mar 5, 2021 |
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Mar 5, 2021 19:14
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TBH I didn't like X4 very much compared to even unmodded Albion Prelude but when they add Terrans back in I'd give it another shot. They were far and away the coolest looking ships Did X4 ever get actual missions and quests to do or is it still just scan around and hope one day something happens? RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Mar 5, 2021 |
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Mar 5, 2021 19:17
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RBA Starblade posted:TBH I didn't like X4 very much compared to even unmodded Albion Prelude but if they added Terrans back in I'd give it another shot. They were far and away the coolest looking ships It's got the starter missions, like the player HQ stuff. I don't think it ever got any real story based stuff outside of basic content like that.
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Mar 5, 2021 19:20
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Archonex posted:Hey man, I think the Terran's whole Star Trek type aesthetic is cool. But having played the earlier games it was pretty obvious the post-reunification Terrans were colossal dickheads with a penchant for murderous isolationism along with xenophobia and extreme paranoia towards artificial intelligence. I still remember them deliberately hunting down and blowing up any ships that entered their space in one of the earlier games. That's the thing, the extreme paranoia is 100% correct and for how they're portrayed as being xenophobic morons they haven't colony dropped millions, if not billions of tons of metal onto a planet killing a significant portion of the population and doing potentially irreparable damage to the biosphere for all they said to be big jerks they don't actually do anything anywhere near as bad as what the argon did. It would be like if you fought a third world dictatorship by nuking every city with more than six figgies of population. It's so beyond the pale that that until the terrans do something similar theyre the objectively less bad faction in this conflict
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Mar 5, 2021 19:22
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Archonex posted:Apologia The Argon deployed millions of homegrown AI warships into Sol right before the ancients put everyone in time out. You can guess how that turned out for all the colonies and orbitals  It isn't that the Terrans are nice guys here but holy poo poo the Argon are loving monsters and AP trying to paint them as otherwise was really weird. Like you can't got "THE TORUS WAS A LONE WOLF" and then capitalize on what she did by proving the Terrans right and somehow expect to still be the good guy lol
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Mar 5, 2021 19:22
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lol holy poo poo I had no idea any of that was going on. I knew these games had ridiculously huge backstories that never matter ingame but that should really come up a little more! When playing AP I just thought the station was a military hq and not "planet's getting hosed to bits now"
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Mar 5, 2021 19:25
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RBA Starblade posted:lol holy poo poo I had no idea any of that was going on. I knew these games had ridiculously huge backstories that never matter ingame but that should really come up a little more! The X encyclopedia was a wild read lol My favorite part is the Ancients fighting off extra-dimensional invaders who traveled around in mobile, heavily armed star systems. Just a whole rear end Dyson Sphere comin knockin on your matryoshka brain
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Mar 5, 2021 19:26
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Psycho Landlord posted:The Argon deployed millions of homegrown AI warships into Sol right before the ancients put everyone in time out. You can guess how that turned out for all the colonies and orbitals Both sides were extremely genocidal and evil. It's kind of weird to say that the Argon were worse than the Terran's just because the Terrans were covertly murdering and replacing people to influence and control the other nations instead of openly trying to raze planets prior to the war starting. Just because the Terrans weren't ramping up the kill count to absurd levels in the pre-war stages of the war doesn't mean that they weren't doing things that were just as bad. Like, you don't get evil points taken off of your scorecard just because you were keeping the kill count lower while attempting a nation wide attempt at stealing an entire nation out from underneath it's rightful owners. That itself is a form of genocide by removal of the autonomy of a political (and in the case of the Argon being Terran offshoots) and/or ethnic group. And all this ignores the fact that the Terrans made no bones about the fact that they were going to go into a war of extermination to stop the Argon from researching AGI due to their own historical issues with it if it came down to that. It's literally the story of two sides refusing to de-escalate due to having way too much history with the situation they were in (Terrans and their history with AGI and the Argon with the four or five previous wars they were forced into to keep from being exterminated or conquered.) and being extremely unethical in the pursuit of their agendas. Which lead to ever more absurd sci-fi shenanigans on both sides occurring until it culminated in the Argon just straight up unleashing terraformers on Sol and proving the Terrans right in pretty much every way possible. RBA Starblade posted:lol holy poo poo I had no idea any of that was going on. I knew these games had ridiculously huge backstories that never matter ingame but that should really come up a little more! It's kind of crazy to think how intricate these games would be if they actually showcased these events in gameplay instead of just going "Okay, so, this thing happened and now the game is starting/it happened after it was over." in some text buried in the depths of the game. Having your mission contacts in the earlier games suddenly get hijacked and turned into Terrans in disguise would be nuts. Or having a 1.4 million ship large Argon aligned Terraformer armada (Not that it could render that.  ) drop into Sol to say hello and burn what was left of the planet to the ground as the Terrans frantically relocate every ship they have to try to defend it would be incredible to see.Ditto for all the crazy poo poo that never gets mentioned outside the encyclopedia like the Outsiders, the Ancients, the Won, etc, etc. Archonex fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Mar 5, 2021 |
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Mar 5, 2021 19:43
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Good move on Terrans part imo
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Mar 5, 2021 19:46
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I'm from Buenos Aires and I say delete them all
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Mar 5, 2021 19:47
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Archonex posted:Both sides were extremely genocidal and evil. It's kind of weird to say that the Argon were worse than the Terran's just because the Terrans were covertly murdering and replacing people to influence and control the other nations instead of openly trying to raze planets prior to the war starting. Just because the Terrans weren't ramping up the kill count to absurd levels in the pre-war stages of the war doesn't mean that they weren't doing things that were just as bad. What? Political manipulation and assassinations, while definitely morally bad, aren't even remotely genocide even by the most generous interpretation of that word. If anything, the Earth State not immediately invading the commonwealth the minute they caught wind that the Beryll were loving with AGI again shows a shocking level of restraint considering the fact that the universe has been dealing with the aftermath of the first time it went wrong for the better part of like 700 years. EDIT: Oh and then the Beryll do it again 30 years after the gate shutdown in X: Rebirth because Plutarch wants an unbeatable superfleet to crush Heart of Albion, and lo and behold the minute they're brought online they're subverted by the Xenon. 3 fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Mar 5, 2021 |
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Mar 5, 2021 20:13
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Archonex posted:Both sides were extremely genocidal and evil. Show me one example, encyclopedia or otherwise, of the Terrans (or even the ATF, the actual hardliner assholes) committing an act of genocide lol got some BOTH SIDES right here in the X thread
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Mar 5, 2021 20:19
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Terrans did nothing wrong.
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Mar 5, 2021 20:23
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RBA Starblade posted:Did X4 ever get actual missions and quests to do or is it still just scan around and hope one day something happens? The Split expansion added more detailed plots to do with the Split and the Paranid. COH will add the same for Terrans and Argon.
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Mar 5, 2021 20:27
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Psycho Landlord posted:Show me one example, encyclopedia or otherwise, of the Terrans (or even the ATF, the actual hardliner assholes) committing an act of genocide lol Your gang tag just made something immediately click for me: the Argon are basically just Erusea, right down to overreliance on advanced drone technology that goes rogue because of the Obviously Saya Kho is Captain Torres.
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Mar 5, 2021 20:27
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3 posted:Your gang tag just made something immediately click for me: the Argon are basically just Erusea, right down to overreliance on advanced drone technology that goes rogue because of the Now imagining Saya Kho laughing like an absurd loon as she gets sucked out into space mid-mass murder EDIT: I'd argue that the Belkans/Beryll comparison doesn't hold up though, on account of the Belkans know exactly what they're doing. Psycho Landlord fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Mar 5, 2021 |
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Mar 5, 2021 20:30
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Not enough talk about how the Boron are pure and good. Consider listening to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mi1M747Iw48
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Mar 5, 2021 20:38
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The Boron let Mahi-Ma out into the universe and caused a microchip shortage the commonwealth never recovered from They too are pure evil
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Mar 5, 2021 20:41
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I can't wait until we find the lost Boron sectors and they've turned into a hyper militant empire during the gate shutdown. Imagine Rambo but as a squid.
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Mar 5, 2021 20:45
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cheesetriangles posted:Terrans did nothing wrong. Aye!!!!!!
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Mar 5, 2021 21:04
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Thom12255 posted:The Split expansion added more detailed plots to do with the Split and the Paranid. COH will add the same for Terrans and Argon. Yeah it's worth noting the plots are pretty good! They have large changes on the factions and some have very huge end-game objectives.
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Mar 5, 2021 21:40
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3 posted:What? Political manipulation and assassinations, while definitely morally bad, aren't even remotely genocide even by the most generous interpretation of that word. If anything, the Earth State not immediately invading the commonwealth the minute they caught wind that the Beryll were loving with AGI again shows a shocking level of restraint considering the fact that the universe has been dealing with the aftermath of the first time it went wrong for the better part of like 700 years. This is going to be way longer and  than I wanted for a game like this, but there's not really a way around addressing it:You are severely underplaying what the Terrans were up to. Political manipulations and assassination's are not even half of what they were doing. This isn't them murdering some politician or journalist because they were inconvenient and wouldn't shut the gently caress up about how the murderous space faring killbots couldn't fly off the handle again. They were straight up murdering people and replacing them with spies that looked just like those people who would do what the Terrans wanted them to do. That isn't "political manipulation", it's a straight up Manchurian candidate-esque attempt at a covert defacto take over of the entire Community of Planets. So yeah, the Terrans were engaging in some Manchurian candidate-esque shenanigans. Which is a justifiable reason to launch an attack on them. Where the Argon weren't justified was the Torus strike and the Terraformers being unleashed on Sol. The alternative to them declaring war and launching a surprise attack however would have been to just let the Terrans continue their covert ops until they give up or succeed and take over the countries and turn the entirety of the different species into a proxy state. Like, if the other side is clearly aggressive and wants to control you to the point that they will literally kill and replace the members of your country to ensure that they get control then at what point do you just stop playing nice and start firing rounds their way? Because if that isn't the point where you start a shooting war then there really isn't a point at all where you're going to resist. It's not like anyone would reasonably expect them to stop at shutting down AGI research once they have that sort of control. Not that this justifies the Torus attack. But that's also another big point you keep ignoring since it's heavily implied that Saya Kho came up with it alongside an unnamed Argon intelligence agent instead of it being a state sponsored thing. Argon is only confirmed to have hired the Yaki organization Beryll to soften them up. I don't recall it ever being said that they expected them to straight up go all space terrorist on an entire planet. Unfortunately, as the story shows Beryll is full of awful chuckle fucks. The intent behind hiring the Yaki was to even the playing field in the upcoming war, which is explicitly said in the encyclopedia from what I recall. That Beryll (Which at the time of X3/AP/TP was a Yaki organization, not an Argon one. A pretty big distinction, by the way.) was wrong about AGI and the Terrans were right is completely independent of this. The fact remains that the Terrans just barreled into a bunch of existing nations fighting off a literal apocalyptic crisis, proceeded to murder anyone that crossed into their borders as soon as they could, established themselves as a violent isolationist state at the outset, and then when the Argon did something very stupid by researching new AGI inventions they proceeded to go from murdering people that crossed into their borders to actively murdering members of the country in question and replacing them with Terran's to control the people they had previously shot to kill if they came near their territory. Even if we give the Terrans the benefit of the doubt on multiple fronts they come off as a collection of brutish, shady, and untrustworthy bastards that think they can handle foreign affairs from the barrel of a gun. If someone tried to do poo poo like that in real life any nation would inevitably just resort to carpet bombing their land straight to oblivion after it became apparent that they wouldn't stop until they were forcibly stopped. It's absolutely loving ridiculous to act like the Terrans weren't also a participating party in escalating things to the point where a war broke out and the Terraformers were deployed. Just as it's ridiculous to presume that them trying to subvert the autonomy of an entire country (Technically an entire group of countries, since it's mentioned they were doing it to the Community of Worlds. The Community of Worlds is a term meant to refer to all the species. Meaning the Terrans somehow figured out how to do the whole kill and replace thing to the other races, including the Boron. I really wasn't kidding when I called it two nations being provoked into absurd sci-fi shenanigans.) by murdering and replacing any dissenters or people of influence within the country wasn't just as bad as one planet getting partially blown up at the outset of a war. Literally, both sides were bad. It's literally part of the point of the story of that arc. It's just that the Terrans are awful extremist pricks who turned out to be entirely right about autonomous AI in this setting being a loving awful idea, the Argon appear to have no concept of "disproportionate retribution", and the Yaki really ought to have been fired straight into the sun. Edit: Also, the other thing that never gets mentioned in the "Terrans did nothing wrong" argument is that the Argon have absolutely been in this exact same situation before. Early in the games the Boron were about to be exterminated by the Split, forcing the Argon to intervene in a defensive war to keep them from being wiped out. Then the Kha'ak started loving things up and forced the Argon into a war of extermination to avoid being exterminated themselves. Then the Xenon's numbers increased to the point that the Argon were forced into yet another war of extermination (To the point where the Ancients even consider the Xenon a galactic threat.) to avoid being wiped out, which ended with the Terrans showing up at the end to help out with the #deca CPU ship. Only then it turned out that the Terrans were just as aggressive in different ways which are apparently acceptable to some folks. It by no means excuses what the Argon did when it came to the terraformers. But holy poo poo, even a three year old could look at the history of the Argon and realize that deliberately provoking the Argon after they've been in multiple defensive wars of extermination is going to go really, really, really loving badly for the Terrans due to the Argon being historically willing to go to the mat and do some pretty extreme things if they think they are at risk of being conquered or exterminated. And given the fact that the Terrans were supposedly more technologically advanced, the Argon are inevitably going to default to the aforementioned extreme actions to try and even the playing field if a conflict occurs. The fact that the Terrans then went on and tried to conquer them from within because of the fear of AGI (Remember, at this point they only had their past experiences with it as evidence. All that poo poo about Beryll handing over more AI ships to the Xenon hadn't happened yet.) was just fuel to the fire that Saya Kho goes on to ignite. Archonex fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Mar 5, 2021 |
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Mar 5, 2021 21:40
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im gonna fire up a game with the star wars mod for the next bit until CoH launches. ill post pretty pics.
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Mar 5, 2021 21:43
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queeb posted:im gonna fire up a game with the star wars mod for the next bit until CoH launches. ill post pretty pics. Did they release the new Star Destroyer bridge yet? The screenshots they posted on their discord for the upcoming update looked cool as heck. Travic posted:I can't wait until we find the lost Boron sectors and they've turned into a hyper militant empire during the gate shutdown. Imagine Rambo but as a squid. You joke, but this would be rad as heck. Are they even planning on making Boron ships playable in Foundations? Last I heard they weren't certain how to make them able to walk around the stations since their ships are supposed to be filled with fluid, hence why their ships weren't available to begin with. Archonex fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Mar 5, 2021 |
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Mar 5, 2021 21:46
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