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Alan Smithee posted:imagine libs defending Cuomo except him actually being a "cOnTrIbUtOr tO tHe aRtS" I mean, Cuomo won an Emmy.
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Mar 4, 2021 15:47
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Groovelord Neato posted:Yeah I said it earlier in the thread but it blew my mind the Soon-Yi thing alone didn't gently caress him up back when it happened. He's far from unique in this, there are plenty of famous people with public and undeniable histories regularly brought up in this thread who the public in general doesn't and never really gave a poo poo about, except for maybe a brief tabloid moment. First ones that come to mind are Seinfeld and all the musicians.
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Mar 4, 2021 16:39
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That reminds me that my first exposure to the Soon-Yi allegations when I was growing up was the bit from MST3k's Prince of Space episode, where a little girl comes home and one of the bots says "Woody Allen asked me out!"
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Mar 4, 2021 16:50
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Magic Hate Ball posted:That reminds me that my first exposure to the Soon-Yi allegations when I was growing up was the bit from MST3k's Prince of Space episode, where a little girl comes home and one of the bots says "Woody Allen asked me out!" they did Woody & Soon-Yi gags on like every episode of The Critic too
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Mar 4, 2021 17:01
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I feel like there's something to late night comics making jokes about it daily doing a lot to make it seem embarrassing, but fine otherwise, too.
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Mar 4, 2021 17:33
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But throughout, he's had a career. He's had accolades, awards, money, and no real consequences for gross predatory behavior. Only in the last couple of years has it affected him professionally. And even then he's off in Europe now! That Guardian article highlighted a lot of the shortcomings I see in the documentary, but it also gives Woody a huge pass. Like, gently caress. It sucks because it seems like it's just a super messy situation that is overly publicized.
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Mar 4, 2021 18:43
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John Wick of Dogs posted:The vast majority of people are not aware of the extent and seriousness of Dylan's accusations and the evidence backing it up. The doc is to tell her story. Yeah, my questions about how it talks about Mia aside, the doc does a really good job of talking about how Woody acted towards Dylan, and letting Dylan tell her story. I think because Dylan was not a public figure and tried to stay out of the public eye as much as possible it was easier to ignore her or manipulate her words toward a different end if you were a shithead who wanted to defend Woody. Watching Dylan, both as a child and a woman, talk about how she perceived his actions towards her even before the last straw makes it harder to buy Woody not being an abuser
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Mar 4, 2021 19:18
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Boywhiz88 posted:That Guardian article highlighted a lot of the shortcomings I see in the documentary, but it also gives Woody a huge pass. Can't imagine why...
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Mar 4, 2021 19:39
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Peaceful Anarchy posted:It did gently caress him up when it happened, but a) "technically legal" matters to a lot of people b) something being a media shitstorm in the early 90s is totally different than a media shitstorm in the 2020s c) the fact that he remained in that relationship and that she defends him and her own autonomy means that as time goes on it's easier to go "eh, maybe it wasn't so bad."
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Mar 4, 2021 20:04
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:they did Woody & Soon-Yi gags on like every episode of The Critic too   
AceOfFlames fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Mar 4, 2021 |
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Mar 4, 2021 20:49
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davidbix posted:I'll add that in addition to "technically legal" distinction meaning way too much to way too many people, he got a lot of mileage out of "remember, we don't know how old Soon-Yi actually is" as well. I remember seeing her age being disputed on her Wikipedia article but I didn’t put together how that all came about until watching this episode the other night and thinking “oh I bet they made that poo poo up to make Woody look less like a statutory rapist”
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Mar 4, 2021 20:58
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When I was 28 I dated a 21 year old for a bit and the age difference felt kinda weird.
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Mar 4, 2021 21:17
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Cacator posted:I've been watching Allen v Farrow but this article popped up in The Guardian today which is fairly defensive of Allen but does make points that the series is omitting a lot of details that would make Mia come off as a lot worse than she does and makes the whole situation about Dylan more ambiguous. Holy poo poo, it's the same person. I remember reading one of these articles years ago and thinking it was bullshit back then, and it's all still bullshit today.
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Mar 4, 2021 21:50
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Skwirl posted:When I was 28 I dated a 21 year old for a bit and the age difference felt kinda weird. Think about how much weirder it would have been if you had been married to her mom first
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Mar 4, 2021 22:40
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I, an absolute arrested development manchild, had a conversation with a 17 year old when I was 22 and the takeaway was that they were basically a baby, with the interests & opinions of a baby.
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Mar 4, 2021 22:49
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well why not posted:I, an absolute arrested development manchild, had a conversation with a 17 year old when I was 22 and the takeaway was that they were basically a baby, with the interests & opinions of a baby. I guarantee you everyone feels the same way, except some people are like "but [usually she] makes me horny and is willing to let me stick it in, so I don't see a problem with that!" because they are selfish, awful pieces of poo poo.
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Mar 4, 2021 23:37
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well why not posted:I, an absolute arrested development manchild, had a conversation with a 17 year old when I was 22 and the takeaway was that they were basically a baby, with the interests & opinions of a baby. Yea I remember one of my first 'I'm a grown rear end adult now' moments was when I was like 21 and had to chill with my friend's 17 year old cousin while I waited for her to get back and was left with a profound feeling of 'you seem like a nice person but I absolutely have nothing to say to you deeper than smalltalk'. But yea I'm sure Woody and his loving step kid have some real deep conversations.
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Mar 5, 2021 00:15
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I didn't know Allen was in the same type of relationship his character had in Manhattan. How does anyone question this poo poo when he was a grown rear end man dating a 17 year old.
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Mar 5, 2021 00:20
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Groovelord Neato posted:I didn't know Allen was in the same type of relationship his character had in Manhattan. How does anyone question this poo poo when he was a grown rear end man dating a 17 year old. Woody has repeatedly made movies that make it precisely clear who he is and what his problems are. As far as dating people outside your age bracket, as I've said before I'm not going to shame consenting adults while reserving the right to infer things about their personalities. But yes people 5-10 years younger or older than you are in a completely different place mentally and teenagers are not adults and don't have adult thoughts. Hell college students are barely adults.
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Mar 5, 2021 00:38
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Woody Allen gave an interview in the 70s where he said "if anyone catches me in bed with a bunch of 12 year olds everyone is gonna say 'I saw this coming'"
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Mar 5, 2021 00:56
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sexpig by night posted:Yea I remember one of my first 'I'm a grown rear end adult now' moments was when I was like 21 and had to chill with my friend's 17 year old cousin while I waited for her to get back and was left with a profound feeling of 'you seem like a nice person but I absolutely have nothing to say to you deeper than smalltalk'. I think everyone in their mid-20's plus who tries to talk to late adolescents realizes really quick that the reason we all assume that every teenager is a snarky, keenly-aware hip Cool Kid is that we've all seen the same loving movies written by grown-rear end adults where clever writers put clever words in their mouths. Not that young people are idiots, they just don't know poo poo about the world because they haven't been in the world for that long. You don't really start becoming aware of things until you turn like 19, and that's basically year one for your adult brain to start forming. I can remember first starting college as being the tipping point where I started to really become the me I am now, and I can barely relate at all to who I was before then. As for Woody Allen, he's so loving self-absorbed he probably never realized that he was just talking to a blank slate the whole time and answering his own questions. Soon-yi: *nods in total bafflement* Woody: "Oh you're so understanding I'm glad we can have these talks!"
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Mar 5, 2021 01:09
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Teenagers are often smarter about things than we (grown rear end adults) give them credit for, but it's almost always things we wouldn't expect them to be smart about. They are also dumb as poo poo about almost everything else and there is no excuse for an adult dating one. 21 year old dating a 17 year old is probably fine if there's nothing else wrong with the relationship but Woody Allen wasn't 21 when he claimed to have started dating Soon-Yi. Woody Allen wasn't 21 at any point in Soon-Yi's life.
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Mar 5, 2021 01:14
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Skwirl posted:Teenagers are often smarter about things than we (grown rear end adults) give them credit for, but it's almost always things we wouldn't expect them to be smart about. They are also dumb as poo poo about almost everything else and there is no excuse for an adult dating one. 21 year old dating a 17 year old is probably fine if there's nothing else wrong with the relationship but Woody Allen wasn't 21 when he claimed to have started dating Soon-Yi. Woody Allen wasn't 21 at any point in Soon-Yi's life. Plus by her family’s account, Soon-Yi wasn’t super social to begin with. It’s notable that the woman they interviewed who was a close family friend through one of the older children mentioned that she could kinda sense that Woody attempted to do that grooming stuff to her but she shut it down on her end quickly. Soon-Yi was not just around Woody more but also probably got less attention from other people, so it was probably a big deal that an adult was spending time with her and paying attention to her. That’s the case in a lot of instances of adults dating teenagers, but magnified because Woody Allen is also a world-famous director. He isn’t mentioned a whole lot in the documentary but it sort of seems that Woody did something similar with Moses. Pretty much every mention he gets is in relation to how much he liked Woody when he was around and how hurt he was when the stuff with Soon-Yi happened, and in Woody’s own book he admits to telling the older kids that Mia wasn’t giving them enough attention after Dylan and Ronan came into the picture. It makes sense that of all of the non Soon-Yi kids that he’s the one that has come out to support Woody.
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Mar 5, 2021 01:41
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I just want to know more about Mia's possible abuse. Like Woody is definitely some sort of pedophile. But what the gently caress was going on with her? Moses wrote some explosive poo poo, but I haven't seen anything else that backs it up. e: i have some experience with rich foreign people adopting vulnerable children from abroad, and that poo poo can get so loving disgusting it'll make you vomit. Like disposable toys, cast away when they get bored.
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Mar 5, 2021 02:00
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DC Murderverse posted:I remember seeing her age being disputed on her Wikipedia article but I didn’t put together how that all came about until watching this episode the other night and thinking “oh I bet they made that poo poo up to make Woody look less like a statutory rapist” Skwirl posted:Woody Allen gave an interview in the 70s where he said "if anyone catches me in bed with a bunch of 12 year olds everyone is gonna say 'I saw this coming'"
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Mar 5, 2021 04:22
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davidbix posted:Citation needed. https://people.com/archive/cover-story-angst-ridden-humorist-vol-6-no-14/ quote:if I was caught in a love nest with 15 12-year-old girls tomorrow, people would think, yeah, I always knew that about him.
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Mar 5, 2021 04:33
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That’s got some real Louis CK vibes to it Also I delved a bit more into what Woody’s memoir supposedly reveals and he apparently believes/says that Mia implanted the idea into Dylan’s head by singing a bunch of songs written by her ex-husband’s ex-wife, it’s some real Charles Manson listening to the White Album poo poo with the slight allowance that there is one song on that album clearly written about Mia Farrow. The implication that other songs on that album are the source of Mia’s grand scheme to destroy the man who broke her heart by loving her daughter is insane though The most absolutely insane part is that people will point out how the “daddy” in the song played the clarinet and Woody Allen played the clarinet as if Dory Previn is some sort of seer or that Mia thought “ah yes, this song will be perfect for my plot, it features a clarinet, which provides it an air of plausibility” Edit: it should also be noted that he supposedly got a call from Dory Previn shortly after the allegations surfaced where she told him about these songs and their suspicious coincidences, and reminded him that Mia is a snake. This part of the story seems to only have been added after Previn’s death in 2012, because I can’t find any evidence of anyone talking about it before then. DC Murderverse fucked around with this message at 05:00 on Mar 5, 2021 |
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Mar 5, 2021 04:51
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Thanks. That...feels like a thing that should be brought up more? Even if it's in a joking tone.DC Murderverse posted:Also I delved a bit more into what Woody’s memoir supposedly reveals and he apparently believes/says that Mia implanted the idea into Dylan’s head by singing a bunch of songs written by her ex-husband’s ex-wife, it’s some real Charles Manson listening to the White Album poo poo with the slight allowance that there is one song on that album clearly written about Mia Farrow. The implication that other songs on that album are the source of Mia’s grand scheme to destroy the man who broke her heart by loving her daughter is insane though Googling some of the above led me to Allen's 60 Minutes interview from 1992: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPs5TAO8Hj4 As much as I think he's full of it...he really did do a hell of a job putting on a front back then, in part because he was WAY less fantastical about it than he and his supporters are now. His argument was basically "not only does it strain credulity to suggest I'd suddenly become a child molester at that moment, but Mia had already called me a child molester preying on Dylan before Dylan accused me of molesting her and was fine with continuing to work with me after. So since I, Woody Allen, am pleading my innocence, Mia must have coached Dylan." Which is certainly more credible than the "There once was a singer/songwriter named Dory Previn..." nonsense even if I don't believe him. He also benefitted in a major way from nobody back then knowing exactly what his "inappropriately intense behavior" towards Dylan was before the allegation or that there were numerous witnesses to it. (It also seems like there was a lot more use of the term "coaching" back in the day, whereas "brainwashing" is used more often now for some reason.) One thing I've noticed about Allen and his defenders is that they don't ever fight back against the substance of certain things, they just ignore or outright deny it. Like, it's very clear that the grooming behavior Dylan describes actually happened, in part because there were a bunch of witnesses to it, and they just kind of ignore that. Or with the newly reported details about the Soon-Yi thing starting when she was still in high school. They don't address why Allen's doormen and housekeeper would have given the testimony they did (all 3 testified to Soon-Yi visiting his apartment regularly during high school, with the housekeeper adding that after her visits, she found condom wrappers in wastebaskets and had to change the bedsheets because of ostensible semen stains). They just deny that the sexual contact started that early.
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Mar 5, 2021 06:36
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davidbix posted:Or with the newly reported details about the Soon-Yi thing starting when she was still in high school. They don't address why Allen's doormen and housekeeper would have given the testimony they did (all 3 testified to Soon-Yi visiting his apartment regularly during high school, with the housekeeper adding that after her visits, she found condom wrappers in wastebaskets and had to change the bedsheets because of ostensible semen stains). They just deny that the sexual contact started that early. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soon-Yi_Previn quote:Previn's exact date of birth is unknown, but she graduated high school and began college in 1991.[4] According to the date of birth assigned to her by the orphanage, Previn turned 21 years of age in October 1991.[4][19][20] A judicial investigation used December 1991 as the beginning of Allen and Previn's sexual relationship,[16] but family friends believe it may have started in the Spring or Summer of 1991.[3][20] Court testimony from Allen's doorman and housekeeper suggested that Allen and Previn began their sexual relationship during Previn's senior year in high school. The primary reason for the disagreement about the dates is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woody_Allen_sexual_abuse_allegation#Relationship_with_Previn quote:The timing of the relationship became an issue in part because Farrow unsuccessfully attempted to have Allen's adoption of Dylan and Moses voided after the molestation allegation, on the grounds that his relationship with Soon-Yi had begun before the adoptions were finalized on December 17, 1991.
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Mar 5, 2021 06:57
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https://twitter.com/thr/status/1367586040991551488?s=21
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Mar 5, 2021 07:03
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It's a good read; simple and to the point. Ray Fisher re-tweeted the article too.
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Mar 5, 2021 07:31
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What the gently caress? quote:I’m regrettably all too familiar with experiencing physical and mental abuse. I was terrorized at the hands of an abusive family member when I was a child. And I’ve had a gun held to my head at point-blank range while barely escaping rape.
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Mar 5, 2021 07:35
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Skwirl posted:What the gently caress?
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Mar 5, 2021 08:23
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Martman posted:I'm not gonna say that's common or mundane or anything, but I think the reality is that a shocking number of women have experienced an insane level of terrifying situations. But yeah that's nuts. Yeah like every woman I've been friends with will tell me a different hosed up story about taking the bus, but none of them ever mentioned a gun being held to their head.
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Mar 5, 2021 08:29
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DC Murderverse posted:That’s got some real Louis CK vibes to it gently caress, I’d say it edges on Jimmy Saville territory.
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Mar 5, 2021 08:45
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Skwirl posted:What the gently caress? She's a rape survivor, her story is horrifying.
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Mar 5, 2021 08:53
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Rhyno posted:She's a rape survivor, her story is horrifying. I didn't know that, I thought Joss Whedon was the worst man she met.
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Mar 5, 2021 08:58
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Skwirl posted:I didn't know that, I thought Joss Whedon was the worst man she met. Oh man, it's bad. https://metro.co.uk/2013/10/02/charisma-carpenter-you-can-have-a-good-life-even-after-something-terrible-happens-4130335/
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Mar 5, 2021 09:10
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Rhyno posted:Oh man, it's bad. She was kidnapped by a loving cop? Jesus loving Christ.
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Mar 5, 2021 09:18
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Oh, cops are far more likely to commit rape than to protect anyone from it or arrest anyone for it.
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Mar 5, 2021 09:54
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