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Kangra
May 7, 2012

Looks like War in the East 2 is up for pre-orders. At the bottom of the Matrix page I saw the sentence "The first 1000 manual orders will ship on April 16th" and thought for a moment that meant filling out an order form by hand and mailing it in for someone to send you a physical copy.

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ZekeNY
Jun 13, 2013

Probably AFK

Kangra posted:

Looks like War in the East 2 is up for pre-orders. At the bottom of the Matrix page I saw the sentence "The first 1000 manual orders will ship on April 16th" and thought for a moment that meant filling out an order form by hand and mailing it in for someone to send you a physical copy.

In fairness, that would be a very Matrix Games way of doing things.

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

I'm looking at the UI for WitE2 and it's basically identical.

Meanwhile DC:Ardennes is looking like a real step up in terms of presenting information to the player.

Bold Robot
Jan 6, 2009

Be brave.



I'm about a month into the campaign in my first game of DC:B and would be curious to hear any takes from veterans on my progress so far. I'm really enjoying the game but I've definitely made some blunders and don't have a great sense of whether I'm on pace or totally screwed. All of the below is from the start of turn 9 / July 24, no moves have been made yet:




Starting in AGN, the 18th Army is pushing north towards Talinn while the 16th Army is bogged down in the swamps around Ostrov. 4th PG is resting until next turn, which I think was probably a mistake - I wanted to time it so that they came off rest the same turn as my FSB at Riga became operational but screwed up and now I've got 14k fuel with my mobile divisions sitting idle.


In AGC I'm attempting an encirclement around Orsha, but a huge number of Soviet divisions have shown up outside Smolensk and I'm not sure how I'm going to deal with them and closing/liquidating the pocket at the same time. This feels like a mess and but I need to stabilize the front before resting my panzers.


Stiff resistance in AGS west of Kiev - these new lighter-colored armor divisions with a ton of T34s scare me. I don't want to send my panzers against all of those Soviet troops in the forest east of Zhitomyr, which means no pocket here. Leaning towards pushing into Zhitomyr with infantry and saving my armor to try and set up a larger encirclement around Kiev.


I have no idea what I'm supposed to be doing in this sector of AGS. I suspect Kirovograd is undefended but I may need to send the 11th Army to push east to the Dnepr instead.


Some questions:

1. When do you guys usually change the posture of your infantry armies? I moved my PGs off of Blitzkrieg posture a few turns in to conserve fuel, but all of my infantry armies are still on Blitzkrieg. It's not going to be fun to eat the PP and turn of disruption to get them onto Sustained Offensive.

2. Is there any way to see how much Fatigue a division has accumulated? The manual describes the effects but I can't find it in the UI.

3. How does the Reinforcement card you get for the 2nd Army's arrival in AGC work? I get that you can place the HQ unit at a position of your choice, but when and how do the actual combat divisions show up?

4. I am going to need to refit my trucks soon, which seems like a gigantic pain in the rear end that will kill any offensive momentum. Any tips on managing that process? My trucks in AGS especially are not doing well.

Carbolic
Apr 19, 2007

This song is about how America chews the working man up and spits him in the dirt to die

Bold Robot posted:

Some questions:

1. When do you guys usually change the posture of your infantry armies? I moved my PGs off of Blitzkrieg posture a few turns in to conserve fuel, but all of my infantry armies are still on Blitzkrieg. It's not going to be fun to eat the PP and turn of disruption to get them onto Sustained Offensive.

2. Is there any way to see how much Fatigue a division has accumulated? The manual describes the effects but I can't find it in the UI.

3. How does the Reinforcement card you get for the 2nd Army's arrival in AGC work? I get that you can place the HQ unit at a position of your choice, but when and how do the actual combat divisions show up?

4. I am going to need to refit my trucks soon, which seems like a gigantic pain in the rear end that will kill any offensive momentum. Any tips on managing that process? My trucks in AGS especially are not doing well.

Novice trying to answer here:

1. I've only played a couple of games against the AI but I think I switched over around the point where you are at now. Note that Blitzkrieg posture also adds fatigue to your infantry...

2. Select the unit and hit the "R" report button.

3. The turn after you put down the HQ, the divisions have a percentage chance of arriving as reinforcements, like other reinforcing divisions do. Make sure to keep the HQ in a city, which doubles the chance of each division arriving. This is how Soviet reinforcements are handled as well.

4. I don't really understand the truck refit option. It seems to cost a lot of PP but is that all it costs? Like does it pull existing trucks off the line and reduce the flow to my panzer groups until they're fixed?

I've seen a couple of people looking for PBEM buddies to play DC:B in this thread. I'd be interested in playing Soviets in a human vs human game, because the computer playing as Germany seems to outrageously cheat and can make inroads far, far faster than I can as a human playing Germany. A bit afraid of the time commitment and I can't promise super fast turnaround, but if anyone is more on the novice end and would like to play, let me know. I have never actually played a full game out to completion - as the Germans playing on easy mode I have captured Leningrad and Rostov in late October and am closing in on Moscow, but that is as far as I've gotten. As Soviets I've only made it in 9-10 turns before getting frustrated at the magic panzers who don't need fuel or army cohesion.

Lum_
Jun 5, 2006

Pirate Radar posted:

Vic has called attention to a Shadow Empire mod that redoes the art for the stratagem cards, which you might like if you dislike the present art style: https://www.vrdesigns.net/?p=2051

There's another one that redoes the art style to be akin to Empire of the Fading Suns, which Shadow Empire is a not-so-veiled successor to.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4931935

uPen
Jan 25, 2010

Zu Rodina!

Carbolic posted:

4. I don't really understand the truck refit option. It seems to cost a lot of PP but is that all it costs? Like does it pull existing trucks off the line and reduce the flow to my panzer groups until they're fixed?

I don't remember but I think the answer is yes, you get reduced throughput as trucks go in for maintenance. The trade-off is you don't run yourself out of trucks by driving them to death.

I'd play anyone who wants to play a game in DC:B. I've run a few (MP and single player) games to completion so I'm not a novice but I am pretty rusty and have no idea what changes have been made in the year+ since I last played. I'm also pretty bad at playing the Germans, the defensive side of the game is easier for me to deal with than the refit/rest/offensive plate spinning game.

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

I would like to play but still haven't managed to play a sp game to completion. I always get hung up around the smolensk phase.

V for Vegas
Sep 1, 2004

THUNDERDOME LOSER
Slitherine posted in their update video they had 10million impressions in their steam sale page and sold 250,000 units of games/dlc! Top sellers were Gladius and Distant Worlds. Currently working with developers on around 100 upcoming games/dlcs.

Hypnobeard
Sep 15, 2004

Obey the Beard



But it's a niche genre!

Zaodai
May 23, 2009

Death before dishonor?
Your terms are accepted.


But each of those sales was at a loss, so Slitherine is sending people into the developers houses to actively and aggressively take food out of their families mouths.

Dramicus
Mar 26, 2010
Grimey Drawer

Alchenar posted:

I'm looking at the UI for WitE2 and it's basically identical.

Meanwhile DC:Ardennes is looking like a real step up in terms of presenting information to the player.

Sorry if this is super obvious or has already been explained, but what exactly is WitE2 bringing to the table that makes it worth buying if you already have #1? It's really hard to see any changes or improvements.

Alikchi
Aug 18, 2010

Thumbs up I agree

Dramicus posted:

Sorry if this is super obvious or has already been explained, but what exactly is WitE2 bringing to the table that makes it worth buying if you already have #1? It's really hard to see any changes or improvements.

There's stuff on the Matrix forums (including some beta AARs) but the gist is they're bringing in a version of the War in the West air system and the scoring is going to be more dynamic in a way that forces German players to stay aggressive. Logistics models individual tons of freight moving on single or dual-track railways. Some other people are digging into it.

I'm also very vOv about it and more excited about Ardennes Offensive.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
WITE2 will use WITW's air system

WITE2 will use WITW's supply and logistics system. In WITE 1, throughput across rail is effectively infinite, but with a 1% drop for every hex deeper into Russia. The sequel is supposed to use depots and track fine-grained tonnage shipments to simulate this more closely.

WITE2 will have a subsystem for managing which and how many divisions are serving on the Eastern Front, vis-a-vis the West, with an eye towards pressuring the player to maintain historical force levels if they want the Western Allies to keep to a historical schedule of advance. Stripping the East delays them more, but makes your actual job harder, and vice-versa. WITW had this system in reverse.

I believe the long-term goal is to be able to merge the two games, such that when you shift a panzer division from Minsk to Paris, it'll show up in Paris as a controllable unit in that theater that you're also playing, instead of an abstraction.

Dramicus
Mar 26, 2010
Grimey Drawer
Ah, I see. Thanks. I'm not sure those changes are worth the $100 CAD they are asking for it ATM. I'll keep an eye on it as people get their hands on it.


Alikchi posted:

I'm also very vOv about it and more excited about Ardennes Offensive.

Oh, I'm absolutely looking forward to Decisive Campaigns: Ardennes. I know the German side will play fine, but hopefully Playing from the Allied side will also be a good experience.

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

Ardennes is going to be interesting because it's the first game that Vic has made about an offensive that failed because it was stopped cold (yes yes, the Russians beat the Germans and eventually halted them in Barbarossa, but we all know that a large part of the story is being many times beyond their logistical ability to support an offensive). The DC model kinda falls apart when you can't maintain a solid line, which Vic solved in Barbarossa by frontloading the Russian reinforcement schedule. Keen to see how the game system has changed to try and fix this.

ZombieLenin
Sep 6, 2009

"Democracy for the insignificant minority, democracy for the rich--that is the democracy of capitalist society." VI Lenin


[/quote]

Alikchi posted:

There's stuff on the Matrix forums (including some beta AARs) but the gist is they're bringing in a version of the War in the West air system and the scoring is going to be more dynamic in a way that forces German players to stay aggressive. Logistics models individual tons of freight moving on single or dual-track railways. Some other people are digging into it.

I'm also very vOv about it and more excited about Ardennes Offensive.

It uses the War in the West logistics and depot system, as well as adds the WitW air system.

Finally, I think they made the map prettier.

Decrepus
May 21, 2008

In the end, his dominion did not touch a single poster.


One time in Distant Worlds I started with a rival of my own species in my starting solar system and we I had to launch a low tech invasion to conquer them. It was rad.

V for Vegas
Sep 1, 2004

THUNDERDOME LOSER
WitE2 is on the full europe map but only uses the eastern front part. Other theatres are broken down into separate boxes eg North Africa, France etc.

Gay Hitler
Dec 11, 2006

I'm gay as heil!

Anyone else excited about Distant worlds 2? The new ui looks amazing for logistics optimization

BrotherJayne
Nov 28, 2019

Gay Hitler posted:

Anyone else excited about Distant worlds 2? The new ui looks amazing for logistics optimization

mega excited.

The first distant worlds is the best 4x I've ever played

William Henry Hairytaint
Oct 29, 2011



BrotherJayne posted:

mega excited.

The first distant worlds is the best 4x I've ever played

RattiRatto
Jun 26, 2014

:gary: :I'd like to borrow $200M
:whatfor:
:gary: :To make vidya game
So after seeing a couple of streamers play Shadow Empire i took the bait and went neck deep in this new genre. Oh boy. The pleasure of min maxing your streached thin supply lines. The inability to understand anything and the constant null results from google search. Then the light. The sacred scriptures. The manual. Hundreds of pages of details which made me discover the truth beyond the awful UI.

So basically I am here wondering how did i not get into grognard games before. I have already sunk so many hours in something with graphics so bad it can only rival dwarf fortress

So i were to pick one on the wwi/wwii theme which seem a constant here, what would be a good place to start?
fake edit: turn based please otherwise how can I look 5 times at the same supply line

Popete
Oct 6, 2009

This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
That he should grow greens instead of crushing on MCs

Grimey Drawer
It's a niche genre that doesn't believe people like you exist and thus makes no effort to advertise itself.

Saros
Dec 29, 2009

Its almost like we're a Bureaucracy, in space!

I set sail for the Planet of Lab Requisitions!!

Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa by the same Dev as Shadow Empire is generally well regarded and a more focused experience than SE.

RattiRatto
Jun 26, 2014

:gary: :I'd like to borrow $200M
:whatfor:
:gary: :To make vidya game
Alright then DC Barbarossa will be so I can have my innate minmaxing logistic need satisfied.
Shadow Empire is indeed very good, but touching on a little too many points which leave me thirsty for more. I already dream about this working on multiple planets - what a gameplay nightmare that might be. As now i just want to resupply some vast hordes of troops

SlyFrog
May 16, 2007

What? One name? Who are you, Seal?
Is there a good, comprehensive (yet polished) guide to figuring out Mius Front (including the utterly baffling strategic layer)?

I've seen a couple, but they frankly are about as indecipherable as the game itself.

BrotherJayne
Nov 28, 2019

SlyFrog posted:

Is there a good, comprehensive (yet polished) guide to figuring out Mius Front (including the utterly baffling strategic layer)?

I've seen a couple, but they frankly are about as indecipherable as the game itself.

I'll be honest, I mostly just move stuff around on the strat map, and then scream curses at Hitler or Stalin alternately on the tactical map when the enemy rolls right the gently caress over the top of me

gohuskies
Oct 23, 2010

I spend a lot of time making posts to justify why I'm not a self centered shithead that just wants to act like COVID isn't a thing.

RattiRatto posted:

Alright then DC Barbarossa will be so I can have my innate minmaxing logistic need satisfied.
Shadow Empire is indeed very good, but touching on a little too many points which leave me thirsty for more. I already dream about this working on multiple planets - what a gameplay nightmare that might be. As now i just want to resupply some vast hordes of troops

DC:B is great but a note that might not be clear to new players is that the campaign for the German player is more fleshed out and interesting than the Soviet one, make sure to start with the Germans.

Squiggle
Sep 29, 2002

I don't think she likes the special sauce, Rick.


SlyFrog posted:

Is there a good, comprehensive (yet polished) guide to figuring out Mius Front (including the utterly baffling strategic layer)?

I've seen a couple, but they frankly are about as indecipherable as the game itself.

The absolute best thing I've EVER seen that has legitimately helped me not only play but actually like the Graviteam games is the Warsimmer's tutorials on Youtube. The bad news is that the game has radically changed certain things - particularly, artillery and how you even use it - and they're sometimes out of date. But those combined with his playthrough videos of Mius Front scenarios in general are CRAZY helpful.

For the tactical layer!

For the strategic, yeah, I uh...I'll let you know when I think I understand it.

EDIT: Oh, speaking of artillery, Ancient Chinese Secret: don't plant your units on control points, towns and the like. If the AI has artillery, they will barrage the poo poo out of them almost immediately. Put 'em close, and move them into defensive positions AFTER the inevitable barrage.

Squiggle fucked around with this message at 06:58 on Mar 12, 2021

Drone
Aug 22, 2003

Incredible machine
:smug:


RattiRatto posted:

Alright then DC Barbarossa will be so I can have my innate minmaxing logistic need satisfied.
Shadow Empire is indeed very good, but touching on a little too many points which leave me thirsty for more. I already dream about this working on multiple planets - what a gameplay nightmare that might be. As now i just want to resupply some vast hordes of troops

Its older and by extension much more clunky and impenetrable, but Advanced Tactics Gold by the same dev is worth looking at as well.

Popete
Oct 6, 2009

This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
That he should grow greens instead of crushing on MCs

Grimey Drawer

Squiggle posted:

The absolute best thing I've EVER seen that has legitimately helped me not only play but actually like the Graviteam games is the Warsimmer's tutorials on Youtube. The bad news is that the game has radically changed certain things - particularly, artillery and how you even use it - and they're sometimes out of date. But those combined with his playthrough videos of Mius Front scenarios in general are CRAZY helpful.

For the tactical layer!

For the strategic, yeah, I uh...I'll let you know when I think I understand it.

Yeah those tutorials are great. I love Mius Front the only thing I really want for a new Graviteam game is an overhaul of the operational layer, it's really not intuitive. But when you get an on may large caliber artillery battery raining down HE shells on an enemy infantry assault it's just so satisfying.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
Slitherine has a preview up for War Plan Pacific: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXsViKTTtMg

RattiRatto
Jun 26, 2014

:gary: :I'd like to borrow $200M
:whatfor:
:gary: :To make vidya game
So what I am getting from the answers here is that all this games are made by like a single dev or a very small group of people

Why are so expensive then! I bet the are slamming the same underlying backend/engine/black magic on each of them - I mean for the most the look quite identical

pedro0930
Oct 15, 2012
Because they are all expected to sell in the low thousands, if that. The proceed need to then last for years because that's how long it'll take for a one-man dev to make the next game.

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

Popete posted:

Yeah those tutorials are great. I love Mius Front the only thing I really want for a new Graviteam game is an overhaul of the operational layer, it's really not intuitive. But when you get an on may large caliber artillery battery raining down HE shells on an enemy infantry assault it's just so satisfying.

The main thing I found necessary to really grasp around the Graviteam games is that all of the scenarios take place over at most 3 days, so the 'operational' layer is basically a pause screen between tactical battles that basically cover everything in real time.

Pirate Radar
Apr 18, 2008

You're not my Ruthie!
You're not my Debbie!
You're not my Sherry!

Drone posted:

Its older and by extension much more clunky and impenetrable, but Advanced Tactics Gold by the same dev is worth looking at as well.

I second this, it’s sort of like a groggy Advance Wars if that makes sense. Have fun figuring out how to create and use TOEs!

ArchangeI
Jul 15, 2010

RattiRatto posted:

So what I am getting from the answers here is that all this games are made by like a single dev or a very small group of people

Why are so expensive then! I bet the are slamming the same underlying backend/engine/black magic on each of them - I mean for the most the look quite identical

Oh hell no. There is no underlying engine, they are all bespoke creations, shared only within a studio if that. You don't seriously expect a grog developer to compromise on their vision just because some engine can't do something? If the design states that the game will track how much extra fuel the Italians have to use to heat the water for their pasta based on environmental temperatures then by god the engine will be able to do that.

Chuck_D
Aug 25, 2003

Alchenar posted:

The main thing I found necessary to really grasp around the Graviteam games is that all of the scenarios take place over at most 3 days, so the 'operational' layer is basically a pause screen between tactical battles that basically cover everything in real time.

Yeah, it's helpful to frame the operational layer in that light. I fired up GTMF the other day and poked around the operational interface for a while. I'm tired of not playing a really great game because of the ambiguity of one of the components. I think there are only a few things that I'm really struggling with.

First, I can't seem to make heads or tails of the "highlight OOB" button. It would seem like it would highlight brother units in one color, superior units in another color, and those superiors' units in another color. But, it doesn't seem to be consistent in how it applies those color schemes.

Second, the whole unit list screen where you can select a "reinforcement strategy" and such is still pretty obtuse. How do I assign reserve units? Is there a way to direct reinforcements to specific units, etc?

Edit: The thought occurs to me that we have a lot of people here with the same complaint, each of which can probably shed a little bit of light on the darker areas of the operational interface. So, why don't we start bringing up specific issues that we're having with the operational interface so that we can try to help each other piece together a clear picture of how to manage it?

Chuck_D fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Mar 12, 2021

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winnydpu
May 3, 2007
Sugartime Jones
Are there any mods that adjust the Advanced Tactics Gold supply system in a more forgiving direction? I found the mod that requires to to base trucks, trains and HQ units at each city to micromanage everything- I'm not trying to make things more complicated.

I'm looking for something that allows captured cities to generate supply. It seems ridiculous to me that however large you grow your country you are tied to the same supply cap because only your original cities can generate supply.

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