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Deteriorata posted:Faith is not an academic exercise that takes place inside your head. Faith should inspire you to love other people and help them get through life. Without that, your faith is pointless. This is how I see it. Faith is not a quality but a way of life. Faith is an active thing that you live, not simply a set of beliefs. https://i.imgur.com/E59WSh9.mp4
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Mar 4, 2021 21:51
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Bourricot posted:I self-identify as a Reformed Protestant, but more due to heritage/cultural inertia than theological grounds (to be honest, I often struggle with some parts of Reformed theology). A good analogy I heard was: You are stranded in a boat off the shore. Sola Fide: You are in a life raft. The only way back to shore is if the currents push you there and you are helpless to do anything about it. Just have faith you'll be saved. Saved by works (I forget the exact term): You are in a rowboat. You row to shore under your own power, and you are responsible for your own salvation. The Catholic view: You are in a sailboat. The Holy Spirit is the wind, and by carefully trimming the sails and keeping hold of the rudder you can make it back to shore. You are saved by God through cooperation with Him.
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Mar 4, 2021 22:04
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Zazz Razzamatazz posted:A good analogy I heard was: My belief, incidentally is: You are in a life raft with a paddle You can and should make an effort to get back to shore, but you can't get there under your own power. I believe in Sola Fide, but also believe that faith that is not lived is not faith. https://i.imgur.com/Sf71u2P.mp4
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Mar 4, 2021 22:08
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Bourricot posted:I self-identify as a Reformed Protestant, but more due to heritage/cultural inertia than theological grounds (to be honest, I often struggle with some parts of Reformed theology). This is probably overly reductive but the mainstream Protestant take is usually that faith and accepting God's grace is what grants us salvation, but if we truly have saving faith then good works are a natural outgrowth of it. The good works don't "earn" you salvation, but if you're not doing good works your faith isn't very genuine. Something like: faith -> God's grace -> salvation -> good works as a natural consequence of that saving faith Salvation is a product of faith alone, but good works are a necessary product of genuine faith. What comes first, the saving faith or the good works? edit: to try and match this with the boat analogy - you're in a life raft with a paddle and emergency rations. You're not going to get to shore by paddling, it doesn't make a difference against the vast ocean (of sin). But you want to survive, so you paddle anyway and eat/drink the rations because of your desire to live and reach safety. It's the right thing to do. Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Mar 4, 2021 |
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Mar 4, 2021 22:09
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Bourricot posted:I self-identify as a Reformed Protestant, but more due to heritage/cultural inertia than theological grounds (to be honest, I often struggle with some parts of Reformed theology).
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Mar 4, 2021 22:58
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Zazz Razzamatazz posted:The Catholic view: My understanding of the Orthodox view is similar to this: we are constantly working out our salvation in cooperation with the holy spirit.
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Mar 4, 2021 23:11
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Also, the Orthodox likes boat metaphors as well--the Church is the new Noah's Ark, Christ is the captain, who helps the Saints with steering, and the canons are the Rudder.Slimy Hog posted:My understanding of the Orthodox view is similar to this: we are constantly working out our salvation in cooperation with the holy spirit.
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Mar 4, 2021 23:11
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Deteriorata posted:Faith is not an academic exercise that takes place inside your head. Faith should inspire you to love other people and help them get through life. Without that, your faith is pointless. I like this take. Part of the reason I get so frustrated with the breed of Evangelical who argues for Bible literalism and "Bible-as-science" or historical fact is that they seem to be waging a war on the idea of faith itself. If you can prove something conclusively, it's no longer a matter of faith. It seems like, to this crowd, the idea of faith being mysterious is an insult.
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Mar 4, 2021 23:44
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Keromaru5 posted:Also, the Orthodox likes boat metaphors as well--the Church is the new Noah's Ark, Christ is the captain, who helps the Saints with steering, and the canons are the Rudder. first read this as "cannons" and was trying to figure out what Orthoboat is shooting at, maybe demons or something??
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Mar 4, 2021 23:45
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gregorian calendars
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Mar 5, 2021 00:41
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Lutha Mahtin posted:gregorian calendars load the cannons with righteous shot and prepare to fire a broadside volley at the Filioque and also instrumental church music
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Mar 5, 2021 00:57
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Fritz the Horse posted:first read this as "cannons" and was trying to figure out what Orthoboat is shooting at, maybe demons or something??
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Mar 5, 2021 01:07
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So what are the differences between the Orthodox churches? If someone was going to take Hey Guns' advice and become Orthodox how do they choose?
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Mar 5, 2021 01:15
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Zazz Razzamatazz posted:So what are the differences between the Orthodox churches? If someone was going to take Hey Guns' advice and become Orthodox how do they choose? lol i am not even going to try and make a comprehensive reply to this post. "excuse me goon sire can you kindly summarize 2000 years of theology and geopolitics for me tia" haha
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Mar 5, 2021 01:34
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Hey Guns winning souls without even posting. It's a miracle.
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Mar 5, 2021 01:40
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Zazz Razzamatazz posted:So what are the differences between the Orthodox churches? If someone was going to take Hey Guns' advice and become Orthodox how do they choose? from what I recall, They're supposed to be national churches (Russian, Greek, Romanian, Serbian, etc) but the patriarchs fight over who gets jurisdiction in the US. The differences between them are more political than theological. Each church is going to use its specific language and mostly be attended by members of that nationality/ethnicity. Greek churches are more likely to have
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Mar 5, 2021 01:49
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Theologically, there's no difference. The style of worship varies a bit between Greek and Slavic, but it's still the same basic liturgy. The main difference is just which bishops that parish is connected with. The Greek Archdiocese is under the Ecumenical Patriarchate. Antioch is under Antioch. ROCOR is under Moscow. OCA is autocephalous (self-governing), though originally under Moscow. At present, Moscow is out of communion with Constantinople, and I think that carries over to ROCOR, but I'm pretty sure it's just them. It shouldn't matter too much which jurisdiction you go with. In the end, I figure the community at that parish, including the priest, should be the deciding factor. Beyond that, ROCOR tends to be the most rigorous. IIRC, you have to go to confession *every* time you expect to take Communion. In the OCA it's required only once a month, and in the Greek Church it's between you and your priest. Greek churches are probably going to be the most likely to use the original language, though every one I've been to has been convert-heavy and uses plenty of English. In an ideal world, there would just be one American Orthodox Church, because under the canons bishops aren't supposed to have overlapping territories, but this is what we have. quote:Greek churches are more likely to have Keromaru5 fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Mar 5, 2021 |
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Mar 5, 2021 01:56
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Does anyone else get spiritual feelings from reading Henry Bessemer's description of the moment he caused the industrial revolution?
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Mar 5, 2021 01:57
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Keromaru5 posted:Theologically, there's no difference. The style of worship varies a bit between Greek and Slavic, but it's still the same basic liturgy. The main difference is just which bishops that parish is connected with. The Greek Archdiocese is under the Ecumenical Patriarchate. Antioch is under Antioch. ROCOR is under Moscow. OCA is autocephalous (self-governing), though originally under Moscow. At present, Moscow is out of communion with Constantinople, and I think that carries over to ROCOR, but I'm pretty sure it's just them. It shouldn't matter too much which jurisdiction you go with. In the end, I figure the community at that parish, including the priest, should be the deciding factor. This is correct though my experience with confession in the OCA is "it's between you and your priest" with my first priest giving rough advice to confess once every festal period.
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Mar 5, 2021 02:07
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Slimy Hog posted:This is correct though my experience with confession in the OCA is "it's between you and your priest" with my first priest giving rough advice to confess once every festal period. I can’t believe I don’t know/remember this: do the Orthodox have a concept of “worthiness” for the Eucharist? To put it another way, do the Orthodox recognize certain sins that makes one ineligible to take Eucharist until they confess them? Thirteen Orphans fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Mar 5, 2021 |
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Mar 5, 2021 02:10
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Thirteen Orphans posted:I can’t believe I don’t know/remember this: do the Orthodox have a concept of “worthiness” for the Eucharist? To put it another way, do the Orthodox recognize certain sins that makes one ineligible to take Eucharist until they confess them? I've seen advice that it's generally a bad idea to excommunicate yourself from the Eucharist. That said, while I'm not 100% positive what they are, certain grave sins do seem to require confession before receiving Communion. I have one book on Confession that quotes a Father as pointing to Murder, Adultery, and Idolatry as the big three. He connects them to the ruling of the Council of Jerusalem in Acts, where Christians are forbidden from food consecrated to idols (idolatry), adultery/fornication, and blood (murder). These tend to get the strictest penalties in the canons as well (though again, one should not be their own canon lawyer). Some people also abstain when they have an ongoing conflict with somebody. Also, breaking the Eucharistic fast without good reason. That's as much as I'm aware of.
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Mar 5, 2021 03:12
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Cythereal posted:This is how I see it. Faith is not a quality but a way of life. Faith is an active thing that you live, not simply a set of beliefs. I was having a discussion with a friend a few days ago that touched on this subject. Like me he was raised Christian but never felt what he considered Faith so he just sort of stopped believing because he thought he never really had. I explained to him that one of the things that lead me back to belief was that faith wasn't just some sort of emotion or state of being you had to feel before you could believe, sometimes you have to engage in the community, in study, in charity, etc. and that faith will come from such works (not that I was clever enough to call that behavior works at the time). CarpenterWalrus posted:I like this take. Part of the reason I get so frustrated with the breed of Evangelical who argues for Bible literalism and "Bible-as-science" or historical fact is that they seem to be waging a war on the idea of faith itself. If you can prove something conclusively, it's no longer a matter of faith. It seems like, to this crowd, the idea of faith being mysterious is an insult. I read a Youtube comment where someone was arguing that Young Earth Creationism would be a violation of Free Will, since making it too obvious that the planet was hand crafted would mean there's no reasonable way to not believe the Bible.
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Mar 5, 2021 03:29
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ThePopeOfFun posted:Hey Guns winning souls without even posting. It's a miracle. Haha, no I was just curious. I'll be confirmed and receive my first Communion in the Catholic Church this Easter.
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Mar 5, 2021 03:51
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ThePopeOfFun posted:Hey Guns winning souls without even posting. It's a miracle. well, dang, if we're winning souls in this thread, i need to step it up
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Mar 5, 2021 06:55
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I appreciate everyone's input  In the spirit of Cythereal, here's a cool dog with a hat to thank you all: https://i.imgur.com/TN87Ow7.mp4
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Mar 5, 2021 12:29
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White Coke posted:I read a Youtube comment where someone was arguing that Young Earth Creationism would be a violation of Free Will, since making it too obvious that the planet was hand crafted would mean there's no reasonable way to not believe the Bible. I mean there could be eighty-four thousand obvious signs that all life on Earth was created by the Titans, save at the Cambrian revolution, where Zeus successfully overthrew his forebear and paved the way for multicellular life, pausing only to smite Prometheus and his favored children, the tyrant lizards. But we don't know any better. It's the only planet we've examined at all closely, although we are working on Mars. We have evidence, at least, that other star systems have planets, now - but until very recently, possibly within the lifetime of I, forums poster Nessus, we couldn't even be sure about that, or at least not how common planets were. And say we find or derive some key signs that life on Earth was created -- how do you know it was that narrative, not some other religion? (An interesting side note is whether or not "most accurate account of the Creation" would necessarily translate to salvific power.) Now if you found something like "the human genome's introns include a section which, read as binary code, is the Hebrew text of the first four chapters of the Book of Genesis, give or take a small spelling error," yeah OK.
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Mar 5, 2021 12:42
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I read Sola Fida, Faith Only, as rejecting ceremonies that feel meaningless to you. As in IF a ritual helps your faith, GOOD! If a ritual feels like you are simply going through the motions, a chore to get over with as soon as possible, then said ritual is not helping your faith, and it is a sign you need to look elsewhere for a practice more suited to your faith or spirituality. I fully respect Catholics, Orthodox, and others who find a lot of joy rituals. But to me, EVERY meal should be communion, and I hope everyone will feel welcome at my table.
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Mar 5, 2021 14:39
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Zazz Razzamatazz posted:A good analogy I heard was: Faith as Ultimate Concern. I am in the sea, whether on a lifeboat, rowboat or sail boat. That I am in the sea, means I think about being in the sea, even in the worst weather where I might lose hope, until I am not in the sea. All ships pale before the sea itself. Separately open boat lost at sea is about the worst thing that one can experience. Edit: I’d also add that the larger and more seaworthy the ship the more easily one can become unafraid of the sea, which is a dangerous mistake. Bar Ran Dun fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Mar 5, 2021 |
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Mar 5, 2021 17:27
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Lutha Mahtin posted:lol i am not even going to try and make a comprehensive reply to this post. "excuse me goon sire can you kindly summarize 2000 years of theology and geopolitics for me tia" haha *hauls out thick doctrinal book, blows dust off of it* OK, let's see where you might fall out. Question #1: The Holy Trinity. Are you for or against this
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Mar 5, 2021 20:34
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Bilirubin posted:*hauls out thick doctrinal book, blows dust off of it* So Question #2 is whether Christ was born a man and granted Godhood or was right from the get-go, right? Please answer in essay form and show your work.
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Mar 5, 2021 20:52
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1: Who created humanity? a) The one God of the Israelites. b) Prometheus. c) Some demiurgic idiot. d) Aliens. 2: How many gods are there? a) One b) Three c) A whole bunch d) both a and b e) both a and c f) all of the above 3: Who was Jesus? a) liar b) madman c) The organizer of Woodstock d) Donald Trump's protege e) The Son of God 4) Was Jesus divine or human? a) Human b) Divine c) Yes
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Mar 5, 2021 22:46
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Nth Doctor posted:So Question #2 is whether Christ was born a man and granted Godhood or was right from the get-go, right? Question 3: Rome is ____ a) Founded by the gods b) Where Peter is c) Constantinople d) Babylon fart mouth
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Mar 5, 2021 22:46
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Keromaru5 posted:1: Who created humanity? A, A, E, C, but Jesus can also have C on question 3, as a treat. Guy deserves some time for hobbies.
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Mar 5, 2021 22:54
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Keromaru5 posted:1: Who created humanity?
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Mar 5, 2021 23:00
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Keromaru5 posted:1: Who created humanity? A, A, B*, A *"Madman" has a pejorative connotation but I respect Jesus within the general trend of Jewish leaders who were enormously charismatic and spiritually gifted, to the point of stirring messianic fervor in both themselves and their followers (Bar Kokba, Nachman of Breslov, the last two Lubavitch Rebbes, etc.) From a lowercase-o orthodox Jewish perspective, the fault is entirely on his early followers who should've given up on him as Moshiach after he died without accomplishing the things Moshiach must accomplish. Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Mar 6, 2021 |
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Mar 6, 2021 00:13
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Nessus posted:Would it? As a Youtube comment it didn't go into a lot of detail, but I figure the author thought there'd be more proofs of YAC, if it was true, than just the age of the planet, although the planet being exactly as old as the Jewish calendar would in itself be a rather compelling argument in favor of the Abrahamic religions. And why would DNA spelling out part of the Bible be more compelling than other signs that life was created?
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Mar 6, 2021 03:42
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White Coke posted:As a Youtube comment it didn't go into a lot of detail, but I figure the author thought there'd be more proofs of YAC, if it was true, than just the age of the planet, although the planet being exactly as old as the Jewish calendar would in itself be a rather compelling argument in favor of the Abrahamic religions. And why would DNA spelling out part of the Bible be more compelling than other signs that life was created? However, something like having part of the Bible in all humans' DNA would be a very different story. That would be pretty hard to explain independently, especially since we were not aware of DNA's existence until significantly after the writing of the Torah.
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Mar 6, 2021 04:52
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White Coke posted:As a Youtube comment it didn't go into a lot of detail, but I figure the author thought there'd be more proofs of YAC, if it was true, than just the age of the planet, although the planet being exactly as old as the Jewish calendar would in itself be a rather compelling argument in favor of the Abrahamic religions. And why would DNA spelling out part of the Bible be more compelling than other signs that life was created? so we're getting our theology from youtube comments now? is that how the teens are doing it these days?
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Mar 6, 2021 05:20
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Unironically, yes. Often also YouTubers who don't know what they're talking about. Not a new problem by any means.
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Mar 6, 2021 07:19
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Lutha Mahtin posted:so we're getting our theology from youtube comments now? is that how the teens are doing it these days?
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Mar 6, 2021 10:55
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