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Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


I'll admit that I may have misremembered the sequence of events!

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VinylonUnderground
Dec 14, 2020

by Athanatos

UNRULY_HOUSEGUEST posted:

Whenever people have tried to engage you about what is actually within the show versus your own selectiveness you've become incredibly passive aggressive and descended into incoherent ranting about how Saxby Chambliss makes the show evil or whatever, so god knows you think a meltdown looks like.

The discussion about Chambliss was about cowardice and how that applies to Don as a Conservative icon of the W era. In that post, I talked about how W himself famously squared off against John Kerry with Swift Boat Veterans for Truth but Chambliss is more extreme. He called Max Cleland, a triple amputee vet, a coward compared to his brave self, a man who got a college deferment. That's an important parallel. Making people like Chambliss look sexy, even if it affords them a Victorian indulgence of sadness, isn't a good look. Talking about what happens in the show and how it relates to the world that made it is important and, I think, far more interesting than which character has the best dance number in the show.

The cool thing about that approach is also 1) it makes the thread not read like a CIA document and 2) it lets posters talk about how they felt when they saw the show vs now vs someone seeing it for the first time. To me, that's a fun fruitful discussion.

That dovetails nicely with the first part where you had a little bit of a meltdown. If I disagree with someone's method of analysis, I just don't respond. It may be fun for some but it's not fun for me. That's one of the relatively few joys we have in an online discussion vs a real world discussion. Talking about the liberation your method of analysis allows while actively disallowing all others is a much narrower and more petty thing. At the end of the day, we're all here to have fun. For some people "having fun on the internet" means "being unreasonably angry". I'm not going to yuck their yum. I'm also not going to worry about it. This is SA, I figure that is SOP here. I stopped caring after the second time someone on my local BBS threatened to come over to my house and beat me up. The first time gave me pause because they found me in the phone book with a "this you?" and it was the '90s so supercriminals smashing down your door and putting a bullet in your head was very much a part of the public consciousness. The second time that happened, I was a sweaty mess when I called his bluff. But then I realized I had nothing to worry about.

Blood Nightmaster posted:

I feel like it's worth mentioning at this point that Vinylon has also been banned from like two major subforums (GBS and QCS) according to their rapsheet, possibly spanning multiple accounts to avoid said bans. so take that knowledge into any earnest engagement with them :shobon:

Nah, I always keep posting as myself and am always quite open about it. For example, there is no transition between me as Incelshok Na and me as Vinylon in this thread. I don't have any particular attachment to any given handle so if I'm going to get banned, I may as well spend the $10 on a new name for a bit.

Xealot posted:

We all understand that this is how you feel about the show, it's just not supported by the actual text.

The writers are obviously aware of how Don's life LOOKS glamorous. That's one of the primary tensions, that Don LOOKS successful and happy, and is celebrated by people who only see the superficial trappings of his lifestyle. Tearing that down is the entire project of the series, why it ran for 7 seasons. Don is a man who has everything, whose inner rot slowly sabotages ALL OF IT because the wealth and power do nothing for his soul. His picture-perfect marriage decays into alienation and divorce at his own hand. His second one does, too. He demolishes his personal relationships with alcoholism and abuse. He alienates his daughter forever when his terrible choices spill out in front of her. And he implodes his golden career because eventually all his unprocessed trauma comes pouring out in a client meeting.

You refer to it as a "sad trombone," like it's some purely superficial apology for Don's success, but there are very clear consequences for him doing and being the things he is. This powerful alpha who's so enviably charismatic winds up totally alone, a thrice-divorced loser in a fancy penthouse apartment with nothing in it, or hung over and exhausted on a random couch in San Pedro, or possibly suicidal at Esalen after the last even symbolic vestige of "family" abandons him there.


His life isn't actually that great. And it's absurd that you can't seem to see beyond his material successes to see how or why that is. The most efficient example I can draw of the show's "thesis," if it has one, is the scene where Pete says goodbye to Tammy before moving to California. It's a direct echo of the shot that closes the pilot, of Don tucking his kids in as Betty watches from the door frame. But the context that the viewer now has renders the moment immensely sad. Pete has wanted to "be Don Draper" since the first episode, and now he is. He's a powerful and respected businessman who's alienated his wife, with a child who won't know him, now totally alone with his riches. *Sad trombone noise*

VinylonUnderground posted:

While I think the criticisms I'm presenting do apply to the series as a whole, I'm not spoilering things because I'm keeping my commentary contemporary with the thread itself. For example the jetsetters are a good foreshadowing of the doldrums of some of the later seasons and those do a fair job deglamorizing Don's lifestyle. Being a pathetic loser who pays women to slap him and then having the one friend he has left top himself is very much not glamorous.

My own stated thesis aside, at the end of the show Don hasn't lost anything he can't easily regain.

So the rest of it really feels like self-indulgence. It's some Philip Roth level indulgence. I'm not above enjoying some self-indulgence but I'm not going to pretend it is somehow transcendent.

GoutPatrol
Oct 17, 2009

*Stupid Babby*

Sash! posted:

I'll admit that I may have misremembered the sequence of events!

You are not entirely wrong, because Don falls off the wagon again pretty quickly, but the big fall doesn't happen until season 8part 2 of season 7. I believe he's drinking again in the next episode, 7x05. At the end of the last episode, 7x04, it seems to have worked though.

Yoshi Wins
Jul 14, 2013

Don's drinking is often problematic even when things are relatively good for him. When he's doing well with it, he drinks less, but it seems like even that requires a lot of effort (around the part in season 7 that's under discussion we see him using a marker to mark his liquor bottle in the morning to indicate where he needs to stop for the day).

Freddy is right that Don should quit drinking, but Don refuses to even entertain the thought. He's not ready for that. Maybe he'll never be. Freddy got clean while going to AA, but Don really doesn't seem like the AA type, so he'd probably need to figure out some other solution. We never see that happen.

ANOTHER SCORCHER
Aug 12, 2018

Yoshi Wins posted:

Freddy is right that Don should quit drinking, but Don refuses to even entertain the thought. He's not ready for that. Maybe he'll never be. Freddy got clean while going to AA, but Don really doesn't seem like the AA type, so he'd probably need to figure out some other solution. We never see that happen.

Transcendental Meditation is his solution, presumably.

Yoshi Wins
Jul 14, 2013

Either that or buying the world a Coke, and keeping it company.

ulvir
Jan 2, 2005

VinylonUnderground posted:

My own stated thesis aside, at the end of the show Don hasn't lost anything he can't easily regain.

He has thoroughly sabotaged every single personal relationship, including his own children. The only thing he might’ve kept at the end is his job, but someone ho has work but no friends or family at all is not remotely glamorous. everyone who would still respect him has moved away and/or lost it, and even if the coke-ad is his idea, he is not a well-respected man anymore, and considering he works for the biggest agency at that point, it means within the industry at large. None of that is easily repaired. Him barely getting back his job again before they merged with the big agency was practically a fluke, and he only survived by doing the same scheme Duck did at the very beginning which lead to the merger

ulvir fucked around with this message at 10:24 on Mar 6, 2021

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.

Yeah, Don decidedly CAN'T regain all he's lost. He saves his job at McCann, makes a good ad. But he probably can't repair his marriage with Megan, probably doesn't regain the respect and adoration of Sally. Henry is more a father to Bobby and Gene than he'll ever be. Stephanie may have cut him off forever. And even if he does salvage a relationship with any of these people, the damage he's done isn't going to be forgotten. It's forever.

But more to the point, although Don can "easily regain" what he lost in some material sense - he's still rich, can find a new wife, make a new family, form a new company - all of those things will wind up exactly as they did the first and second time unless he genuinely confronts his goddamn problems. If you choose to interpret the ending as, "Don learned nothing and goes back to McCann to do the exact same poo poo again," it doesn't mean that he got off scot-free or that his inner turmoil meant nothing. It means that the turmoil is always. He will keep living in this drunk rear end in a top hat samsara over and over again because he refuses to break the cycle.

The show doesn't have to end with Don dying alone or becoming destitute for the consequences of his actions to feel real.

Shageletic
Jul 25, 2007

Yeah im voting for Vinylon to be banned from here or at least everyone ignore him. He just posts about other posters and throws in inexplicable Bush references.

Tho the real tell is not being "interested in the interior lives of fictional people"? Lol, what are you even doing here.

Brendan Rodgers
Jun 11, 2014




pentyne
Nov 7, 2012

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005

Shageletic posted:

Yeah im voting for Vinylon to be banned from here or at least everyone ignore him. He just posts about other posters and throws in inexplicable Bush references.

Tho the real tell is not being "interested in the interior lives of fictional people"? Lol, what are you even doing here.

Seconding.

I saw a bunch of new comments, thought we had a new episode early.

Nope, still just Vinny being utterly incapable of reading the room, or the characters in the show this thread is about.

Yoshi Wins
Jul 14, 2013

My last post about vinylon was asking if we could just all ignore him now, but now that there's a spontaneous movement forming, I'd like to say that this poster:

*posts the same things over and over and over again, with barely any variation, for many pages
*is belligerent and dismissive
*refuses to use specifics to back up his contrarian arguments
*has a ridiculously long rap sheet for a 3 month old account (does not improve posting after getting feedback from moderators)

Fifthing that it would be great for this thread if this didn't go on any longer. Please.

ulvir
Jan 2, 2005

I am uncomfortable with this sort of “justice by the masses” thing where someone is voted out from a thread, so my vote would be “whatever, if someone posts something unreasonable or just trolls, then just probate them when that happens”. nobody has ever been physically harmed by reading some opinion of a TV show that you disagreed with or thought was really dumb, and ten new unread posts in a thread isn’t a crime

Mr. Fall Down Terror
Jan 24, 2018

by Fluffdaddy
i mean, i can totally understand why shbobdb's third alt wouldn't understand a show about a man trapped in a cycle of endless social horror because he is incapable of confronting and amending his own monstrous behavior

VinylonUnderground
Dec 14, 2020

by Athanatos

ulvir posted:

He has thoroughly sabotaged every single personal relationship, including his own children. The only thing he might’ve kept at the end is his job, but someone ho has work but no friends or family at all is not remotely glamorous. everyone who would still respect him has moved away and/or lost it, and even if the coke-ad is his idea, he is not a well-respected man anymore, and considering he works for the biggest agency at that point, it means within the industry at large. None of that is easily repaired. Him barely getting back his job again before they merged with the big agency was practically a fluke, and he only survived by doing the same scheme Duck did at the very beginning which lead to the merger

Xealot posted:

Yeah, Don decidedly CAN'T regain all he's lost. He saves his job at McCann, makes a good ad. But he probably can't repair his marriage with Megan, probably doesn't regain the respect and adoration of Sally. Henry is more a father to Bobby and Gene than he'll ever be. Stephanie may have cut him off forever. And even if he does salvage a relationship with any of these people, the damage he's done isn't going to be forgotten. It's forever.

But more to the point, although Don can "easily regain" what he lost in some material sense - he's still rich, can find a new wife, make a new family, form a new company - all of those things will wind up exactly as they did the first and second time unless he genuinely confronts his goddamn problems. If you choose to interpret the ending as, "Don learned nothing and goes back to McCann to do the exact same poo poo again," it doesn't mean that he got off scot-free or that his inner turmoil meant nothing. It means that the turmoil is always. He will keep living in this drunk rear end in a top hat samsara over and over again because he refuses to break the cycle.

The show doesn't have to end with Don dying alone or becoming destitute for the consequences of his actions to feel real.


Creating the most famous ad will very much make Don respected. It cements his legacy as one of the, if not the greatest ad men ever. He is free from all his past attachments and can start over again, again. Something Don is extremely good at. To me, it very much reads as a "Don wins" scenario.


What Mara is spinning isn't a wheel: it's a carousel. There and back again through one life or many lives in samsara. And we can only be saved by Canon, Bodhisattva of compassion capitalism.

VinylonUnderground posted:

Why should we care about Don's cowardice? As I mentioned in the post that kicked this all off, it's very W's America. Look at Max Cleland and John Kerry then compare them to Saxby Chambliss and W. In that sense, humanizing Don with his self-indulgent "emptiness" is loving evil. We even see Don have the chance to start everything over again where he will succeed again. So what if Don runs away from NYC with a new woman to where ever? He's going to be able to make himself again and again and again. He the ultimate self-made man because he's constantly remaking himself.


Shageletic posted:

Yeah im voting for Vinylon to be banned from here or at least everyone ignore him. He just posts about other posters and throws in inexplicable Bush references.

Tho the real tell is not being "interested in the interior lives of fictional people"? Lol, what are you even doing here.

I don't know where you think I am talking about other posters, could you please support that with a quote? I'm talking about Mad Men and other people are talking about posters, specifically me, for reasons I can't fathom.

As for "inexplicable" Bush references, I don't get what is so "inexplicable" about mentioning what was happening in the real world when Mad Men was airing and being created. In the early aughts there was a huge change in how masculinity was perceived and Don Draper is absolutely a part of that. There is a reason that one of the more prominent "new" forms of masculinity that arose during the aughts, pick up artistry, was nominally apolitical at the time but now is intrinsically tied to the Trump-wing of the Republican party. W was part of that transition as well, his evangelical sect was based on the idea of "real men love Jesus". So as a society we were transitioning away from a "strong silent John Wayne" type to a softer more sensitive man that also created its own reaction. The toxic men of Draper, White and Soprano all feed into this discussion. Thinking that Don having the material means to be sad doesn't negate his place in that discussion.

VinylonUnderground posted:

The vision of Mad Men is flawed and flawed in ways that we, knowing the future since we are living in it, can clearly see. A rich LA fuckboi critiquing W-era conservatives on bullshit that no one cares about. Who gives a poo poo if Don is sad because his rich life where all of his desires are fulfilled is empty? That's so far down on the list of "things to give a poo poo about".

Let me tell you the real ending of Mad Men. You have a man whose whole life is a fabrication. Every single moment of it is a lie. That lie is that he is a successful, sexy alpha male. The actual person is grossly inadequate, petty and stupid but above all they are projecting the worst case of impostor syndrome the world has ever seen. The whole subtext of Mad Men is "look at what a loving loser this guy is!". But we know how it really ends. That dude becomes President.

VinylonUnderground fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Mar 6, 2021

ANOTHER SCORCHER
Aug 12, 2018

VinylonUnderground posted:

Creating the most famous ad will very much make Don respected. It cements his legacy as one of the, if not the greatest ad men ever. He is free from all his past attachments and can start over again, again. Something Don is extremely good at. To me, it very much reads as a "Don wins" scenario.

I disagree with this reading but I don’t think it’s unfair. All of Don’s rough edges are sanded down by capital until he is the perfect advertising machine - transforming his alienation and misery into a way to sell poison water. That’s a tragedy and it happens every day, to everyone, which is one of the reasons I love Mad Men. If you view the ending as a triumph though then I do think it could ring a bit hollow.

VinylonUnderground posted:

As for "inexplicable" Bush references, I don't get what is so "inexplicable" about mentioning what was happening in the real world when Mad Men was airing and being created. In the early aughts there was a huge change in how masculinity was perceived and Don Draper is absolutely a part of that. There is a reason that one of the more prominent "new" forms of masculinity that arose during the aughts, pick up artistry, was nominally apolitical at the time but now is intrinsically tied to the Trump-wing of the Republican party. W was part of that transition as well, his evangelical sect was based on the idea of "real men love Jesus". So as a society we were transitioning away from a "strong silent John Wayne" type to a softer more sensitive man that also created its own reaction. The toxic men of Draper, White and Soprano all feed into this discussion. Thinking that Don having the material means to be sad doesn't negate his place in that discussion.

Sure, and while they show certainly revels in the absurdity of the patriarchal norms of the time the entire series is about showing these men - Don, Pete, Roger - as pathetic and empty. All of them only become happy once they’ve discarded the the toxic masculinity of the 1950s. Pete reconciles with his wife and stops pursuing some rich playboy lifestyle, Roger marries a woman his own age who challenges him, and Don of course loses everything and ends up at the retreat. Peggy, and the social changes of lean-in neoliberal capitalism she represents, is the real victor of the series as a whole. Don isn’t Trump, he is Bush transforming into Obama. Whether that is good or bad will depend on your politics of course.

The Klowner
Apr 20, 2019

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Xealot posted:

Yeah, Don decidedly CAN'T [spoiler]

But more to the point, [spoiler]

Jesus christ I can't take it anymore. Why do you do this?? Just put [spoilers]everything[/spoilers] in [spoilers]spoilers[/spoilers]!

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.


I'm getting pretty exhausted with being excited for a new Jerusalem post, opening the thread, and finding out it was just another 2 pages of Vinylon screaming about how this show isn't about characters, it's about Weiner loving rich people or some poo poo.

GoutPatrol
Oct 17, 2009

*Stupid Babby*

ANOTHER SCORCHER posted:

I disagree with this reading but I don’t think it’s unfair. All of Don’s rough edges are sanded down by capital until he is the perfect advertising machine - transforming his alienation and misery into a way to sell poison water. That’s a tragedy and it happens every day, to everyone, which is one of the reasons I love Mad Men. If you view the ending as a triumph though then I do think it could ring a bit hollow.


There are many different ways to think about the ending for Don. Is this a real change? Was it real but used to sell Coke? Was is always fake? The ending is good because unlike the Sopranos where everyone except the weirdos has come to accept the "tony dies" narrative, I don't think we ever can get a clear answer.


To go back to S3 chat, when I first watched the show I thought that the Derby party was Roger and Jane's wedding. Looking back now I don't know why I thought that.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

I posted that I thought it was in this very thread.

Mad Men is the most memorable show that I constantly mix up details of, or order of events, it's got a weird quality that way

Gaius Marius fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Mar 7, 2021

JethroMcB
Jan 23, 2004

We're normal now.
We love your family.

Gaius Marius posted:

Mad Men is the most memorable show that I constantly mix up details of, or order of events, it's got a weird quality that way

I think a lot of that is because the show - for the most part - lacks major, defined season-long narrative arcs. No Big Bads, no existential threats, it doesn't even fall prey to the Sopranos' tendency of introducing "major" characters like Richie/Tony B who show up and only hang around for a year (Ralphie hangs around for two seasons...but only really a full season's worth of episodes between the two.) Mad Men has a pretty realistic flow to it. Characters come and go, choices that people make often do not have an immediate impact the next week (and may not even come back to them until seasons/years later,) and when major developments take place they tend to happen very quickly.

Take the PPL buyout: Season 2 was not "The season where everybody is concerned about the firm's financial status and the partners field offers." In the span of like 3 episodes Duck meets with some old contacts to hatch a scheme, convinces the partners to sign on, and the deal goes through, with no indication earlier in the year that a sale was even a serious possibility. It gets easy to lose track of the little week-to-week stories when "Oh yeah, that the season when..." seismic events are introduced and resolved in the span of 3 or 4 episodes.

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.

The Klowner posted:

Jesus christ I can't take it anymore. Why do you do this?? Just put [spoilers]everything[/spoilers] in [spoilers]spoilers[/spoilers]!

Yeah, sorry, that's fair. That is annoying.

Beamed posted:

...another 2 pages of Vinylon screaming about how this show isn't about characters, it's about Weiner loving rich people or some poo poo.

It also sucks because I've felt the way he describes about OTHER shows, but decidedly NOT Mad Men, which I think does an extremely good job of depicting wealth and career success as hollow. It's part of why I like it so much, because while almost all the characters have immense privilege and wouldn't be in real danger of losing it, the interpersonal consequences of their lovely behavior still feel real and impactful.

(The show I do think utterly fails at critiquing the extreme wealth of its setting is Downton Abbey. It puts out a real love and affection for British nobility and a genuine sense of loss that they're no longer important in modern Britain. Even the Irish socialist who drives their car comes to defend them against class critique because these rich idlers are so charming and are the heart and soul of the community they own like a fiefdom. Go off, Julian Fellowes.)

The Klowner
Apr 20, 2019

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

JethroMcB posted:

Take the PPL buyout: Season 2 was not "The season where everybody is concerned about the firm's financial status and the partners field offers." In the span of like 3 episodes Duck meets with some old contacts to hatch a scheme, convinces the partners to sign on, and the deal goes through, with no indication earlier in the year that a sale was even a serious possibility. It gets easy to lose track of the little week-to-week stories when "Oh yeah, that the season when..." seismic events are introduced and resolved in the span of 3 or 4 episodes.

Ironically, the kind of people who think "nothing happens" in this show could probably tolerate 5 extra episodes of goku charging a spirit bomb that will definitely maybe possibly kill Frieza this time, surely

VinylonUnderground
Dec 14, 2020

by Athanatos

Gaius Marius posted:

I posted that I thought it was in this very thread.

Mad Men is the most memorable show that I constantly mix up details of, or order of events, it's got a weird quality that way

Mad Men definitely has a surreal quality to it. A friend of mine described it as "magical realism" which I think is going a lot too far but I get what he was hitting at and I'm willing to forgive some exuberance after a few cocktails. I feel that dovetails nicely with GoutPatrol and ANOTHER SCORCHER'S takes. One of the thing I like about the show is that different people take different things from it, so it becomes a really wonderful kaleidoscope. There are things that I (rather obviously) think fall flat that other people think are what makes the show special. That's part of the fun of the show for me. Xealot thinks Mad Men works in a way Downtown Abbey doesn't, I don't think either particularly "work" in that way but I will say Mad Men "works" a whole lot better that DA, which I couldn't really watch past the first season and I only watched that because people told me how amazing it was. The Marxist Irish Nationalist cabbie was fun though absolutely a token character.

Speaking of, I do think it would be fun to drop some easy (and maybe not so easy) cocktail recipes after each episode drop. We already talked about the Manhattan and Old Fashioned both pre-pro and post-pro. It's funny because given the era, Don's cocktails were probably almost unpalatably sweet to modern palates. When they weren't just straight booze or booze mixed with more booze.

Additionally, I do want to thank ANOTHER SCORCHER and Xealot for taking the time to actually read and respond to my posts rather than just being weirdly angry. I appreciated your views even if I also see things differently. To regarding AS's post Do they ever show Peggy in a pantsuit? Because Peggy absolutely goes on to wear a lot of pantsuits.

The Klowner
Apr 20, 2019

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

VinylonUnderground posted:

Mad Men definitely has a surreal quality to it. A friend of mine described it as "magical realism" which I think is going a lot too far but I get what he was hitting at and I'm willing to forgive some exuberance after a few cocktails.

Surreal? Mad Men is the least surreal show about the 60s ever made. I feel like I'm watching people live their lives as they realistically would have in that era. There are certainly moments that are "artistic" like Don watching the saga of his birth in the beginning of this season, but they're usually justified as peeks into the eye of the character's mind. The story is told relatively straightforward.

It makes me think, if one perceives the show to be surreal, one might put more emphasis on the creator's intentions and the execution thereof because they implicitly reject the reality of the show's events and can't accept it on its own terms.

The Klowner
Apr 20, 2019

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
I'm not trying to be cute or judgmental intentionally, I'm just trying to understand your mindset. I find it interesting because I pretty much disagree philosophically with everything you've said in this thread thus far

VinylonUnderground
Dec 14, 2020

by Athanatos

The Klowner posted:

Surreal? Mad Men is the least surreal show about the 60s ever made. I feel like I'm watching people live their lives as they realistically would have in that era. There are certainly moments that are "artistic" like Don watching the saga of his birth in the beginning of this season, but they're usually justified as peeks into the eye of the character's mind. The story is told relatively straightforward.

It makes me think, if one perceives the show to be surreal, one might put more emphasis on the creator's intentions and the execution thereof because they implicitly reject the reality of the show's events and can't accept it on its own terms.


I'm affirming what other posters are saying. Gaius Marius does *not* agree with my take on Mad Men so the two of us having similar experiences is probably indicative of something. It's not psychedelic, which is I think what you are getting at. But it isn't that kind of show and a lot of shows about the '60s are.

Gaius Marius posted:

I posted that I thought it was in this very thread.

Mad Men is the most memorable show that I constantly mix up details of, or order of events, it's got a weird quality that way

The Klowner
Apr 20, 2019

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Ah ok nvm

VinylonUnderground
Dec 14, 2020

by Athanatos
I mean, I think if you don't think there isn't a sort of "fuzzy lens" over the whole show then you and I were absolutely having different experiences watching the show. Baby Gene's birth is basically a call-out for this. Then there are all the DT bits and the imagined serial killer bit.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back




ulvir posted:

I am uncomfortable with this sort of “justice by the masses” thing where someone is voted out from a thread, so my vote would be “whatever, if someone posts something unreasonable or just trolls, then just probate them when that happens”. nobody has ever been physically harmed by reading some opinion of a TV show that you disagreed with or thought was really dumb, and ten new unread posts in a thread isn’t a crime

I'm not the biggest fan of it either, tbh! Which is why I only ever open a vote after a poster has been given clear warning, and told they get three more probes to try to chill da fuq out. And even then it has to be a pretty big offense, or a poster with a deserving rap sheet.

I'd much prefer if people just put posters on ignore, really. It's not a perfect system, especially if the poster you put on ignore gets quoted, but it's there for a reason.

Part of discussing stuff is disagreeing with others, after all.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Season 3, Episode 4 - The Arrangements
Written by Andrew Colville & Matthew Weiner, Directed by Michael Uppendahl

Betty Draper posted:

Can't you keep it to yourself?

Gene Hofstadt takes his grandchildren out for a leisurely drive in his Lincoln. As they slowly make their way down the suburban streets, he idly chatters away about the quality of roofing in the neighborhood, pointing out one house in particular where they are sure to spring a leak. He can afford to take his eyes off the road like this because he's not driving. No, it's little Sally Draper - propped up on books - who has the wheel, with Gene keeping his foot on the accelerator to control the speed. Sally is a little nervous, understandably, but after his grandpa waves another car to go around them and then gently ups their speed to 25mph, she can't help but let a smile light up her face: this is so cool, she's driving! Gene beams happily too, while Bobby - not wearing a seat-belt of course - eagerly takes note of the increase in speed. It's a wonderful bonding moment between grandfather and granddaughter... that would probably give Betty a heart attack if she saw it.

Peggy is visiting with her sister Anita, where their mother complains that there is nothing on the news about Pope John XXIII. Peggy points out that the "news" is that he's still dead, there really isn't much more to report than that. Peggy's visit was so she could use the shower, her own is broken and she admits to Anita that she suspects the Superintendent might have broken it to have an excuse to enter her apartment. Anita considers this possibly romantic until Peggy points out her super is NOT the type of man she guesses Anita is fantasizing about.

Still, what are Peggy's options? She can't move in with Anita, she's given her spare room to their mother who now lives with her (I wonder how her husband feels about that?) so there's no luck there. Quietly so their mother doesn't hear (she's too busy complaining about the crappy television), Peggy admits that she wants to move into Manhattan. Her commute is two hours a day five days a week, which means she's effectively working an extra week each month. Anita admits she's never actually considered things that way, but aren't the rents in Manhattan expensive? They are, but that will be offset by the savings on transport.... and getting a roommate. Peggy has enjoyed living alone a great deal, but she'll be willing to give that up if it means she can be in her beloved Manhattan.

Anita is surprised by how much thought Peggy has obviously put into this, and it seems she is a far cry now from the woman who tearfully exposed Peggy's "sins" to Father Gill. She considers her sisters wishes, considers her mother angrily thumping the side of the television, and after a joke about moving their mother out there instead, seems almost wistful when she asks Peggy if she is going to be one of "those" girls now. "I am one of those girls," Peggy offers back happily, and just the fact that the two can joke so freely about this subject paints a bigger picture. Anita, with three kids, a mother living with her, and a husband who had (has?) a bad back, Brooklyn has been her everything. But now rather than begrudge her sister for having the potential to get away, she seems to get a vicarious thrill from the thought.

Even the phrase "one of those girls" isn't pregnant with the negative connotations it might have had in season 2, where it would have somehow been synonymous with "slut". Now it suggests the freedom and liberation of the sophisticated city woman who has seemingly moved beyond the standard "get married, have babies, and never leave your neighborhood/borough" lifestyle that Anita is settled into. It's a wonderful bonding moment between sisters... that would probably give their mother a heart attack if she overheard it.



At Sterling Cooper, Pete Campbell has brought a prospective new client in for a meeting with Lane Pryce, with Harry, Paul and Sal in attendance. Just what this client is selling is the mystery, Pete taking great enjoyment in passing it over to "Ho-Ho" to in a way make his own pitch after swearing Pete to secret. It's... jai alai.

What the gently caress is jai alai?

Ho-Ho (real name Horace) claims it is the "perfect mixture of athletics, spectacle and speed" while Pete offers the more mundane explanation that it is like handball with a "basket thing" for flinging and catching the ball. Horace insists it is more than that though, far more complicated and also far more dangerous. Eyes alight as he explains his obsession, he insists that he has facts and figures that prove jai alai is on track to eclipse baseball as America's national pastime within 7 years. He smirks at their quiet, politely neutral expressions, saying they can laugh if they want but jai alai has everything baseball does but more.... and Patxi, who is Babe Ruth "only handsome".

He shows them a picture of Patxi, who is indeed very handsome, admitting that he was out looking for boxers to sign when he spotted Patxi and bought out his contract instead. "I'm terrified of him catching balls to the face" he admits, which gets a barely repressed smirk from Pete at his side, before moving on to "business". He wants them to tell him how they'd divvy up the money he gives them, in other words it is THEIR turn to pitch to HIM. They do so with practised ease, Harry noting the bulk of it would go into television. Horace likes that, he wants Patxi to have his own television show, a drama as opposed to a sports show: Patxi is exactly the type people will thrill to see traveling the world, solving crimes and "banging broads".

Letting that slide for a moment, Lane highlights Harry's qualities, saying he has excellent relationships with all the networks. But when Harry says ABC would be the best fit, Horace shuts it down: he wants ALL the networks. He wants what the President has when he makes an address: no matter what channel people are on, he wants them to only be able to watch Patxi. Almost feverish with excitement as he expresses his dream, Horace declares that nobody has ever done it. "Because..." starts Harry before he spots Pete, giving him a knowing look that finally makes it click to him what is happening here, and thus what part he is meant to play.

The others either already knew or figured it out far earlier, as Paul offers a recommendation that they put on a big musical special with stars, with a jai alai match as the centerpiece. All of them lean forward, like vultures who have realized their is good eating on offer. Now they're all throwing out suggestions: ladies magazines, newspapers, make Tuesday's ladies night, offer a prize of a trip to Miami with free tickets to the game.... and don't limit yourself! You can't do less than 10 markets, you want blanket coverage!

"This is impressive," nods Horace, reveling in the attention and the warm reception to his dream idea. It's at this moment that Don arrives, he wasn't needed at the meeting but he was asked to drop in to help impress on a new client that their Creative Director had an interest. He takes a seat, and listens in fascination as he gets a recount of all the suggested marketing ideas that Horace has been lapping up. Horace himself offers only one negative reaction, when he learns that CBS doesn't do color television and thus at least one of the networks will be showing off Patxi without the benefit of color. He wants color in all his magazines though, and a full color page in the Sunday papers, and as for radio.... "You'll have to take radio as it is," offers Don, getting a laugh from everybody including Horace.

But it's what is said next that truly gets the vultures salivating. With careful non-interest, as if he's just casually suggesting normal figures, Lane notes that nobody will take this seriously without at least a budget of a million dollars. Horace nods, and then adds on something that blows them away: that's only a third of the budget he has set aside for advertising. Pete is quick to make a joke about how he learned at Freshman Mixers not to question it when you got a yes, and Horace laughs that "Humps" never got a yes at any of those mixers. They all laugh of course, including Pete, who is more than happy to be the subject of fun from an old school friend he has just fleeced for a million dollars and possibly two million more to come.

Because that's what Horace is: a whale. A money mark. An open bank vault with a sign that says,"Take what you want." A fool and his money are soon parted and it seems that Horace has a lot he's willing to part with.

As they all leave, Horace takes a moment to ask Don out to dinner so they can discuss slogans. Pete intercepts, making the point that it is Sterling Cooper who will be taking HIM out for dinner (it's the least they can do after milking him dry), and with a handshake to Don he's gone. The others pass by, thrilled by having gotten to take part in this feast, but when an equally happy Lane joins Don he is surprised to see Don is, well not upset so much but more bemused and disappointed. In the Depression he saw somebody throw a loaf of bread from a truck and the ensuing fight over those scraps was more dignified than what just happened in this conference room.

Now Lane is bemused, is Don really going to have trouble sleeping tonight over this? It's certainly not the first time nor will it be the last that an advertising agency happily takes money from a deluded client. Pete joins them, thrilled to have offered up a "fatted calf" with seemingly not a care that it is an old school friend he is sacrificing. Don though offers a very valid reason for his lack of enthusiasm: Horace Senior. Lane is confused, Pete told him that the father was a shipping magnate but not a client of the firm, so what is the problem? The problem is that Horace Senior is deeply connected to Bert Cooper, and there may be blow-back from stripping down the son of a close friend of one of the Agency's original Founders.

Pete isn't having that though, Horace is a grown up with money and can do with it as he likes, and it is their job to "make our client's dreams come true". Don just nods, again he's not upset but clearly thinks that there are likely to be longer term consequences for this feeding frenzy. He doesn't like it, he's a little disappointed that the others seem to have no moral qualms... but he's made his reasons known and it's not his problem. He leaves, and Lane considers for a moment before turning and offering Pete congratulations for his fine work. That of course leaves Pete beaming, he got to rip off an old friend AND get recognition and praise for it! Maybe that Co-Head of Accounts thing won't be a problem for much longer!



Gene finds Betty in the kitchen doing the dishes and tells her to get off her feet, it's bad for the baby! Betty, who like billions of women before her across history has somehow managed the onorous task of "standing up" while pregnant just fine, says she just needs to get the dishes done first. That amuses him, she's just like her mother, cleaning up before the maid arrives. He asks her again to sit and she does, and he takes her gently by the hand when she starts to pull out a cigarette, telling her that neither he nor the kids likes watching her "commit suicide". In no mood to argue, she sets aside her cigarette and asks him what he wanted to talk about, and he opens the folder he is carrying to show her the "arrangements", everything laid out for her so all she needs to do is follow his directions.

Betty of course absolutely does NOT want to talk about this. These are his funeral plans, his directions for how to handle his mortal remains and his Estate when he is dead, which is something she absolutely can't come to terms with. He insists though, funerals are a dishonest business where they "get you" because they know people don't want to deal with anything, offering a line about "remember your mother's?" which tells a whole story about what was clearly his own disastrous experience in the wake of Ruth's death. It's more than that though, he's giving her the authority not only to handle the funeral but the Will, which his lawyers have made "translucent or transparent", crediting her taking him in for why he decided on her (William did a ton before that, of course, but parents always have their favorites whether they want to admit it or not).

But when - after giving her permission to smoke when he can't stand watching her fidget with the cigarette any longer - he starts laying out the distribution of her mother's coats she can't deal with it anymore. The finality, the acknowledgement of a time soon approaching where BOTH her parents will be dead and gone, the things they used and treasured daily now merely objects to be divvied up among the family... she can't face that. She tries to stand and leave the table when he mentions Gloria, but he places a hand on her wrist, telling her that she's too sensitive and it is his fault for trying to shield her from the harsher realities of life.

Now, with the knowledge that his mind is failing and his own life must be close to an end, Gene is full of regrets for the decisions he made and is trying to deal with those as best as he could. One of those regrets is Don, openly calling him a "joker" and saying it is his fault she ended up with somebody like him rather than realizing the true potential of what she was capable of. What his actual problem with Don is isn't entirely clear: he was never aware of their marital problems as far as I know, and Don has never been anything but respectful towards him when they're together. Maybe he simply sensed that Don doesn't particularly like him either? Maybe it's as simple as distrust for Don's lack of family/history? Maybe it's purely what he says, that he resents Don for tying his daughter down to an "ordinary" life when she was making a life for herself as a model? Or maybe it's just the fact that sometimes people just don't like each other for no real reason whatsoever.

Whatever the reason, Betty - heavily pregnant, tired, scared for her father and the knowledge that he will be gone sooner rather than later - is miserable. Why does he have to talk about this? She can't understand why he doesn't just repress his feelings and let her continue to live in the illusion that somehow everything is fine and nothing is going to change. She admits that she can't know what it is like for him to be facing what he is facing - not just death but the loss of self while he is still living - but... can't he just keep it to himself? She rushes out of the room, Gene not following, knowing from decades of experience that some things can't be fixed, you just have to let them play out in their own natural course.

At Sterling Cooper, it's a far less excited Harry and Sal who approach Alison's desk with Ken Cosgrove, wanting to know if Don is in a good mood. She admits that she can never read his mood right, but luckily the decision is taken from their hands when Don emerges asking if the weather warrants him taking his coat when he leaves the office. Now that he's there, there's nothing for it but for Ken to let him know the bad news: George Caan has dropped out of directing their Patio commercial so he can do a film in Los Angeles.

Don is indifferent to this news that has devestated them, grunting that he'll look forward to Caan's "average work" before telling them to just hire another director. The thing is, there is nobody available, nobody talented at least, and not in the time they have left. That does bother Don, but more because it reflects inadequate planning: what was Ken planning on doing for a replacement if he had to fire Caan? Still, the solution is obvious: Sal can direct. Everybody is surprised at that, including Sal, but an irritated Don - late for lunch at Keens Chophouse - points out all the reasons why this isn't a problem: it's a single shot directly lifted from Bye Bye Birdie, and Sal already storyboarded the whole thing anyway.

He asks Sal if he wants the role, and Sal admits excitedly that of course he does. That's good enough for Don, who turns and leaves, while Sal is left suddenly exultant: he's going be a director!?! That exultation lasts only as long as it takes for Ken and Harry to offer a quiet,"Tag, you're it" before walking away. Suddenly, Sal realizes the full weight of the pressure he has just taken on: he has to direct a commercial to try and land a sub-branch of Pepsi. If he blows this, it could destroy his career.... and he just enthusiastically agreed to do it.



In the break room, Peggy puts up a roommate wanted note on the noticeboard, moving a note from Marie-Anne offering free kittens to a nice happy home. Unlike many of the handwritten notes and cards, hers is professionaly typed up and expertly formatted, which is sure to impress potential roommates and get her lots of inquiries from "serious and financially secure women only, please". She's even put down her name as Margaret, because that intensely formal touch really appeals to people you're trying to convince to come and live with you.

At home that evening, Don is reading his paper when he spots Bobby following Gene into the kitchen as his grandpa carries a big box. Don would be happy to leave them to whatever it is they're doing, until Gene hands Bobby a big knife. He starts to make an involuntary motion to stand until Gene takes Bobby's hand and guides the knife in cutting through the tape sealing it up, reminding him not to cut towards himself. Satisfied if a little put out, Don tries to go back to reading.

It's easy at first, the box includes "treasures" like a framed imitation of the Gettysburg Address, which gets Gene testing Bobby on his history (Honest Abe learned to read by candlelight, Bobby dutifully recounts). Next out though is a small box, and a pleased Gene calls out to Don, showing off the interior: it's a Victory Medal, awarded to Gene in France for his service in World War I. Don, who of course has "his" Purple Heart from Korea, simply nods, and winces a little when Gene laughs he should have gotten another for beating the clap. He's a little exasperated, but not enough to say anything, especially since a smiling Bobby has no clue what Grandpa Gene is actually talking about.

What comes out next changes that though. It's a Prussian helmet, and Gene shows off the bullet hole in it: this isn't just any Prussian helmet, it's a war trophy from a man that Gene killed. Proud, he points out the dried bloodstains that are still on it to a fascinated Bobby, who asks him if he shot him. Gene admits that he thinks he did, before quietly adding that he shot lots of them. Still, it's a point of pride for him that he was in the war, and when Bobby mumbles that war is bad, he offers back "maybe" before talking about how it builds character: fighting the elements, bonding with your brother soldiers, living off the land. He points out a watching Don, telling Bobby his dad would tell him the same before placing the helmet on Bobby's head, dried blood and all.

That's too much for Don, who calls out Gene's name in a warning tone. Gene pretends not to get the big deal as Bobby mimics shooting a rifle while wearing the bloodstained helmet of a man his grandfather killed, insisting that Don let Bobby have it when Don orders Bobby to take it off. This puts Bobby smack dab in the middle of his father and grandfather, the former ordering him to take the "dead man's helmet" off while the latter demands he keep it on. Don isn't playing that game though, this isn't something that Bobby gets to decide, and certainly not something that Gene gets to have the last word on. Standing up, Don walks up and removes the helmet from Bobby's head and carries it away. Gene watches him go, knowing there comes a point where you can't argue anymore, not in another man's house. But once Don is gone, he grins at a disappointed Bobby and pulls out a small fan, spreading it wide and in a low whisper telling his grandson the story of a girl (a prostitute?) he once met.

Speaking of girls, Kitty Romano has her own gift for Sal. She emerges into the bedroom wearing a green negligee, approaching Sal who is in full pajamas making notes on the commercial. When he sees her and what she is wearing he is of course impressed, quipping it looks like a lot more than 20% off when she tells him she got it on sale. She clambers onto the bed and onto him, kissing him as she undoes the buttons on his shirt. But as they kiss, the groans of her name she initially mistakes for passion she soon realizes are him telling her he has to work. Hurt, upset, she pulls away, staring at him and seeing that there is almost a pleading desperation in his eyes when he tells her no. What is wrong, is it her?

"Please don't say that," he begs her, and then searching for a reason to give her he finally manages to get out the closest thing to the truth he has,"I'm not myself." But what does that mean, she asks. He can't answer, because to answer would be to admit the truth: he had an awakening, a moment on his trip where for a moment he got to indulge in his long controlled passion for other men. Since then, it is harder than ever to pretend, to go through the motions of physical lust for a woman he clearly loves but not in the way she wants him to. So he simply stares at her, and she mistakes it for the usual "masculine" folly of being embarrassed to share emotions.

She curles up against him, telling him it's not just tonight, she's felt for the last few months that something is wrong and she doesn't know what it is. She admits that she doesn't need much but she does need "tending", a physical intimacy, and if something is wrong she wants to know what it is so she can try her best to fix it. Sal can't tell her, so he finds the next best thing, a substitute for the aching in his soul over the lie he has to live: his job.

For the last six months or more, he's been watching his job disappear. Advertising is changing, the illustrations that were once his bread and butter are being replaced by photography. But now he has an opportunity, a glorious opportunity to move into an area of advertising with a real future, and he's terrified he is going to blow it. This she can understand, and she offers what she feels is the best way to comfort him, by assuring him of his success. Pleased and amused, he jokingly asks what is wrong with her that she has such confidence in him, and with a little smile she admits that her flaw is that she loves him. But what is the problem? If something goes wrong during the shoot, they can do another take, right?

No, he explains, it is a single shot. She doesn't quite understand, and he reminds her it is lifted from the opening of Bye Bye Birdie, and when she doesn't remember that he begins to elaborate. Now his passion is rising, as he sits up on the bed and excitedly runs her through the action he story-boarded and will now direct. She's thrilled by his enthusiasm as he stands and runs through the motions, but what at first is charming and a little silly as he takes on the role of the "Ann Margaret Type" starts to become unsettling. Because Kitty isn't dumb, she's just in love, and now for the first time she sees her husband really excited about something and it causes something deep and buried in her to click into place.

Yes it's campy and a little stereotypical. But Kitty has known Sal for most of his life, and seeing the freedom in his performance and the obvious campiness of his gestures and body language, a thought that may have been lurking in her subconscious comes dangerous close to the surface. He can hide it from his co-workers, hell he can hide it from his mother, but she is his wife and long-time friend and on some level she knows or at least suspects that her husband, the man she loves and has devoted her life to, is a homosexual.



There's a fine line to draw in an acting performance (and also in the writing) for something like this, and this scene is right on the edge of it (much like Bryan Batt's portrayal in the first episode, which was far too obvious). I'd argue though that it isn't so much the stereotypical campiness of Sal's motions that are intended to draw Kitty to this conclusion, but rather the obvious lightness in his soul as he sets aside the controlled construct of his heterosexual masculinity for a moment and just lets himself be himself. It's actually touching in a way that he could "expose" himself like this to her even if he'd never in a million years admit his homosexuality to her.

Now he returns to the bed and draws her close, thanking her for her support, looking relieved and comforted. She though is the opposite, she snuggles close to him, but she can't shake the deeply unsettling thoughts now racing around her mind. The sad irony is that Kitty wanted him to share, and in the end he shared enough to shatter her entire world into a million pieces.

The next day at Sterling Cooper, Don joins Bert Cooper in his office (shoes off of course) where he finds Lane waiting... and Horace Cook Senior. He shakes hands with Horance Senior, who reminds him they met before at the Lincoln Center. Don takes a seat, a little nervous, is this a meeting where Cooper is going to put him on blast for allowing his friend's son to get fleeced? To his surprise, he discovers that it was Lane who brought the matter to Cooper's attention, apparently Don's own concerns were enough to make him take action... or rather, he's competent enough at his job to know it pays to cover all your bases. Which is why Lane also makes a point of noting it was Don who first raised the point that they should speak with Horace Senior before continuing their business with his son. It praises Don, makes him appreciate being both heard AND acknowledged in public, tells Cooper that Lane doesn't mind sharing or even passing over the credit, and makes Horace Senior aware that there are multiple people at Sterling Cooper who have his best interests at heart.

This also marks the passing over to Don of take the lead in the meeting, and carefully he uses Pete's words to note that Horace has a dream. Of yes, Horace Senior knows all about jai alai, and that his son is utterly convinced of its financial potential. Lane starts to say that it could actually work out but Horace Senior isn't having any of that: the game is essentially just "Polish Handball" that can't even be played left-handed, and his son's financial plans are pure gibberish. This satisfies Bert, if the ideas have no merit then they can pass on it and that will be the end of that.

Not so, Horace Senior points out, they both know the way business works. His son has a dream and the money to back that dream, and Sterling Cooper as a business should be free to take his money. Cooper is surprised, but Senior is pragmatic: if Sterling Cooper turns him down he'll just so somewhere else and the end result will be the same. Though he doesn't say it, it seems he'd rather people he knows and who came to him first will be the ones to bleed his son dry. And he wants his son bled dry, sighing that he and his wife made a mistake when they set aside money for Horace as a boy. He's lived his entire life in a "cloud of success" but the success is his father's, he doesn't understand or know how to make money, just how to spend it. As the old saying goes, he was born on third base and thinks he hit a triple. Maybe, just maybe if he loses everything he will finally understand the value of money and actually figure out how to make his own.

Cooper admits that being childless he doesn't quite understand Horace Senior's mindset, but he does agree that he was raised "kill or be killed, eat or be eaten" and it worked out for him. That marks the end of the meeting, Horace's father giving them the go-ahead to essentially bankrupt his son: he isn't exactly pleased by the idea, but he seems to think it is a necessity. Don and Lane shake his hand and make their exit, while Cooper insists Senior stay for lunch (at least something pleasant will come from this meeting). As Don and Lane leave, Don - any moral objections he might have had squashed for the moment - simply states that he'll make sure to sign Horace tonight at dinner, which Lane is thrilled to hear. His gamble paid off, he covered his bases, got approval on all fronts and took care of the concerns of his Creative Director and got him onto the same page. Sometimes his management techniques fall flat, but sometimes everything works out just as planned.

Another plan going swimmingly is Paul Kinsey's latest creative endeavor. He's worked hard on ideas and it has paid off, and he has the full support of Harry Crane and Ken Cosgrove as he lays out his instructions to Lois (yes, she got out of the switchboard room as they promised her, it seems she is Paul's secretary now). What is the campaign? Why to prank Peggy Olson of course! This is where all his creative energy has gone, as the three listen in giggling as Lois puts in a call to Peggy's office and masquerades as a potential roommate: Elaine, 22, who works in a tannery on the West Side! Also she needs to live near the hospital to treat the burns on her face with unguents and salves... oh and she'll need help going to the bathroom!

This is too much for the giggling men, who burst out laughing which sets Lois - who still must bear a grudge against Peggy for getting her back on the switchboard in the first place - off too, and Peggy, who was trying so hard to be polite, finally grasps that she's been pranked. 'You're a... jerk!" she manages to get out before slamming the phone down.... then realizes she is standing up and slowly settles herself back into her seat, because what else can she do?

At the Draper Residence, Gene is enjoying ice cream straight out of the box while Sally watches, fascinated that he keeps pouring salt onto his ice cream. She asks why he does it and he insists he has a salt tooth in the back of his mouth, which makes her giggle though she doesn't believe him. He laughs that it is getting harder to fool her then slyly slips her a spoon so she can join him in the treat. She hesitates though, her mother doesn't let them have ice cream before dinner. That amuses Gene, who asks if Betty is scared Sally will end up fat like she was.

Sally is delighted by this revelation, even more-so by Gene telling her that Grandma Ruth used to drive her into town to do errands and then make her walk back, which soon put a stop to her being fat (and created a lifetime of body weight and image issues she is passing on to her daughter). He asks Sally if she remembers Grandma Ruth and she does... or at least that she gave her a ukulele. She has no hesitation at all in admitting she never learned to play it, but Gene isn't upset, simply noting that she certainly would have the ability to learn if she set her mind to it, because she's smart.

In fact, she reminds him more of Ruth than Betty herself does, a fact he readily tells Sally. He remembers his wife fondly, how she did drafting for an engineer back in the 20s, a little bald man that the tall and well-built Gene didn't consider a threat. "That's good," nods Sally, as if she has any idea what he is talking about. He's pleased by her response though, considering her for a moment and thinking about his own regrets regarding the way he raised Betty. Unlike Horace Senior, he has another option to salvage the mistakes of his child though, and he tells Sally to remember that she can do anything... and she shouldn't let her mother tell her any different.

Sally takes this onboard with a smile, her mother is her entire world but here is her mother's father - an authority even beyond her mother! - paying attention to her, telling her she can do anything, complimenting her. Her hesitation to break her mother's rules disappears when Gene offers that he's also not supposed to eat ice cream before dinner but he'll keep an eye out for her. She takes her spoon and takes a bite as he playfully looks about in case Betty is about to launch out of one of the kitchen cupboards. When he gasps and declares Betty is coming, she laughs, knowing he is joking, and they gobble down the ice cream happily together. Gene is a little surprised though, why does the chocolate smell like oranges? Sally, who has no idea of the slow internal collapse her grandfather is undergoing, simply shrugs because she doesn't smell oranges, and Gene sets it aside and goes back to enjoying this fun time with his granddaughter.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Don and Pete, as promised, take Horace out to dinner. Horace of course believes so strongly in his jai alai dream that he insists the restaurant will be serving nothing but rum and Mexican beer a year from now. But for as foolish and single-minded as he is, Horace is not entirely without merit. After Pete tells Don that Horace would love a photo of JFK enjoying watching a game of jai alai, Horace comments on his father's distaste for Joe Kennedy being born out of knowing him when they were BOTH criminals: like many of the "great men" of industry in America (and many other countries) they were just thieves/robbers/con-men who got rich enough to dictate that they were now special.

This in turn leads Horace to note his father's racist beliefs, he's against integration and called Patxi a "wetback". On the surface, Horace Senior seemed like a pragmatic man and his son an idle idiot with big dreams. Those interpretations certainly have a lot of validity, but the father being a self-made man who "swung the pickaxe" glosses over the criminal activities that went along with that, and the son being a man with more money than sense doesn't mean he's blind to his father's own foibles beyond simple resentment.

Don offers the suggestion of a compliment, noting that Jack Kennedy ended up with a better job than his father, and Pete does him one better by using the truth to get away with an insult by assuring him that jai alai was the kind of investment his own dead father (who of course blew all his money on bad investments) would definitely have been interested in. But it is when Horace starts talking about what he wants to build that Don's concerns start creeping back in. Because Horace might be obsessed with jai alai and have unreasonable expectations for its success, but the underlying reasons for why he wants it to be a success are clear: he wants to build something of his own, just like his father did (and complains that Horace doesn't understand), and when he does it people will want to work with HIM.... including his father! His greatest desire is to gift his father his own team on his 75th birthday, he will make his dream so desirable and valuable that it would be the kind of gift his father would be awestruck by.

Yes, it's daddy issues at the core just like it usually is, and Don - who certainly has daddy issues of his own - can't quite bear it. Is it a moral objection? A way of trying to convince himself that he's a better man than this (or more importantly, better the others at Sterling Cooper), not a vulture ready to feast on Horace's fortune? Whatever the reason, he says the most unexpected thing: Horace can do better, and he should reevaluate whether he really wants to blow all his money, which Sterling Cooper will happily take, on jai alai.

Pete is horrified, while Horace blinks and considers this bombshell... and then smiles, because he's figured it out, this is an ad-man trick! A way to make him pursue them even harder! Pete just smiles, no need to say anything when Horace will just talk himself into everything. Horace, smug again, notes that he read all about things like this in Ogilvy's book. Why isn't he signed with Ogilvy then, asks Don with a smile, and getting a harder look on his face Horace tells him because Campbell (no Humps now, he's being serious) talked him into it. Now the slightly sad Horace is replaced by the Horace who has been used to getting his way his entire life.

The over-enthusiastic dreamer is gone and the guy who never had to work for anything is sitting at the table, telling Don in no uncertain terms that if jai alai fails it will be "your" fault. Whether he means Don himself, Sterling Cooper as a whole, or simply conflates the two doesn't matter. Because here is a man who, sympathetic as he might be in some ways, will never understand failure until it affects him personally. He will pour his fortune into jai alai, and every success will be his and every failure will be somebody else's. That is the privilege of the wealthy, the insulation from mistakes that lasts until the money runs out (or in Pete's case, even afterwards), and the deeply-entrenched belief that somehow it is all earned or accomplished rather than simply given.

Don takes a moment, then smiles, and the three go back to their meals, Pete assuring Horace he doesn't have to apologize for his bluntness, promising him that every client thinks it but nobody ever says it. Don takes a moment to consider Horace again, maybe pondering why he tried to help this little rear end in a top hat, or maybe thinking about how now that he's tried he can be guilt-free in stripping him bare of everything he's got. Because make no mistake, Don might like to think he had a moral code lacking in the others at Sterling Cooper, but part of him is reveling at the thought of taking everything from one of those types whose car trunks he used to piss in back at the roadhouse when he was 15.

At Sterling Cooper as everybody is leaving for the night, an upset Peggy removes her ad from the noticeboard, the name Margaret having been circled in red with a,"Hello Peggy!" written in marker on it. Joan enters the room and asks if she is removing the ad or just moving it, but Peggy is in no mood for further mockery. Joan isn't mocking her though, in fact she's come to give her some advice on a better ad, which she complains reads like stage directions from an Ibsen play. A suspicious Peggy takes the ad from her, asking if she means to help her draft another ad so "you'll all" can have a bigger laugh at her expense.

Joan, who certainly can be very acidic and cruel at times, isn't interesting in setting Peggy up for further mockery though, if anything she thinks Peggy getting the right roommate and living in Manhattan might do wonders for her. But she's not going to offer her help unasked, and walks away, causing Peggy to have to swallow her pride and call after her, asking her to please help her much like she had to back in her secretary days. Ego stroked, Joan lets her know the ad might be "perfect" from a proofing standpoint and "Margaret" might be a more adult name, but that doesn't appeal or inspire anybody to call. Rather, Joan suggests playing with the idea of making it seem like an adventure, an exciting time and place for two young women to live.

With ease, Joan rattles off a suggested draft of a new ad, one that is breezy and fun and almost reads like a dating classified. Peggy takes it all in, stunned at recognizing what she is used to being the one delivering: a pitch that perfectly caters to an idea the client (herself) didn't know she wanted. She's always prided herself on her writing, on being able to deliver the words that others can't, and this time it is Joan - Office Manager - who has managed to make it look effortless. She manages to stammer out a thank you, and Joan offers one last piece of advice: don't put the ad up here, everybody knows her already. She leaves, and Peggy immediately flips her old ad over and begins writing, using the skeleton of Joan's ideas to workshop a new ad.



That night in bed with Betty, Don can't sleep. He leaves the bedroom and moves into the study, going into his locked draw where he keeps the money he seems incapable of not squirreling away in spite of his wealth (the curse of growing up in poverty, perhaps, or just because in the back of his mind even now there is always the thought of just up and leaving)... but also the shoe-box full of photos that Adam sent him. He looks through them, pausing on a picture of his father and Abigail, the woman who raised him but could never forget he was a "whore's son". The meeting with Horace Senior and the dinner with Horace clearly has him thinking about his own father, the cruel and dishonest drunk who beat and abused him.

Don is almost literally a self-made man in a way that Horace Senior and Joe Kennedy were not, even though he faked his identity he really did make his success legitimately. So what does he think about the father who in spite of himself played a large part in the foundation of Don's character, even if it was in spite to contrast his father's? Does he think about their differences or does he brood on their similarities. He drinks but he is not a drunk. He controls his emotions to the point of dangerous repression while his father had no issue with expressing his contempt and rage. They both cheated on their wives, Don many times and Archie at least once. Archie was physically present but emotionally distant from his son, while Don does not hide his love from his children but also has shown a willingness to abandon them in a futile effort to escape his own sense of failure. Did he love his father in spite of it all? Or does he stare at a photo and feel nothing? And if so, does that please or concern him?

The next morning Don arrives at work and is intercepted by Pete, who has the signed contracts from Horace, calling him "dressed and ready for the oven", showing zero qualms about exploiting his friend. He passes the contract to Don, noting that in light of "all the trepidation" it might be best if he was the one who handed the contract over to Lane. Don makes his way towards Lane's office, noting tetchily that Pete is following in his wake. Pete admits gleefully that he spent two years at Dartmouth hiding the naive Horace from shylocks, so he wants to enjoy his "payday". In other words, social ties between their families is what made Horace and Pete "friends", and Pete is taking great pleasure in that "work" now being rewarded by cleaning him out... in some ways, a revenge against his own family for making him jump through hoops for an inheritance he would never get and thinks he deserves, in other ways a "revenge" against Horace for getting money Pete is convinced he doesn't deserve.

They enter the PPL visitor office, where Hooker is goofing around with Ken, Paul and Harry with a xistera (the "basket things") and pelota (the ball) from jai alai. The equipment was sent over for Sterling Cooper to familiarize themselves with what they'll be advertising, though all of them already see the problem with Horace's desire to call it the NJAA - Americans are going to be very confused by the J which is pronounced like an H.

Lane arrives and is delighted to see how much fun everybody is having, chuckling that they might have found America's pastime after all. Don hands him the contract which makes Lane even happier, letting them know that after he told the home office in London about the deal there was a great "flutter of adding machines". Everybody is happy (including Ken, though he admits he could have been part of this Account which falls under Pete's side of their Co-Head roles), and everybody is completely open about the fact they're knowingly taking on a doomed idea purely to bilk a client out of all of his money. Don's "moral" objections are gone too, he made Sterling Cooper inform the father and he told the son directly to his face and they still gave the go-ahead for the fleecing to occur, so why fight it now? So he instructs them cheerfully to milk him dry, then tries to pass the pelota to Ken and instead loops it around and smashes it through the ant-farm. There's a moment of surprise (and horror from Hooker) and then Don simply shrugs and declares they can charge it to the kid, and leaves the room without a shred of guilt. After all, he never has to clean up the messes he makes.

Gene drives Sally and Bobby to school, and yes he's the one driving. He isn't pleased to see Bobby eating an English muffin in the back seat, complaining he can eat at school, while Sally proudly informs her grandpa that she already ate her breakfast. He grins at her, then reminds her that he'll be picking her up at 3pm and he wants her already in her ballet outfit so he can take her straight to practice, there's to be no dawdling. She accepts that with no issue, it makes sense to her, and he asks her what fruit she'd like since he'll be picking some up today. She immediately asks for peaches and Bobby complains that peaches give him a rash, but Gene snaps back at him that his sister likes them. Sally basks in this, riding in the front seat with grandpa, clearly his favorite, and getting to eat a fruit she normally doesn't because her brother is allergic.

Peggy has a visitor at her office, Karen Ericson, who has come about the new ad that Peggy put together. She took Joan's advice, though she didn't stretch out too far, just putting it up on the first floor of the building which includes the travel agency where Karen works. She's impressed that Peggy has her own office, the only woman who does at the travel agency is married to the boss. "It's different here," assures Peggy, even though SHE is the only woman who has her own office on this floor.

They've spoken on the phone but this is their chance to meet in person, where it quickly becomes apparent that Karen is very nice but maybe not the smartest person in the world... or at least not the most self aware. She had problems with her last roommate who would often keep her bedroom door closed which Karen thinks should only happen when you're with a man. She also insists that she gets on much better with men than women, but doesn't quite make the leap to understand why her stand-offish roommate got married while she's still single, instead proclaiming that she must be a good luck charm.

But she's not unpleasant, she seems to be genuinely nice and eager to find a place together, and the only condition she has is no sailors, she doesn't like sailors! Peggy doesn't delve into what bad experience she had, just nods and promises she too likes to have fun. There is one other thing, Karen hopes that with a name like Olson she is Swedish like her, and seems disappointed to discover Peggy's family are originally Norwegian. Oh well, she's not prejudiced and won't hold it against her... they'll just have to lie to her family and say she's Swedish!

She wants to come back at 5 so they can go out apartment hunting, giggling at the thought that she might have to organize this through Peggy's "girl". But Peggy works till 6 most nights, so maybe they could do it on Saturday... oh but not this Saturday, she's working but she doesn't usually, and certainly not on Saturday nights when she's out on the town... because she... because she likes fun! Karen accepts this readily enough and makes her exit, but not before Peggy shows off how crazy and fun-loving she is by... giving her a spare sandwich she bought for her lunch. Karen leaves with a wave, the two of them calling each other roomies, Peggy desperately holding onto her grin because goddammit she REALLY wants to live in Manhattan.



Sally and Bobby wait outside the school after 3pm, Sally in her ballet outfit as promised, waiting on Grandpa Gene who hasn't arrived despite insisting they be on time. Somebody finally arrives, but its not Grandpa, it's Betty, who looks less than pleased about being there. She obviously showed up when the kids didn't come home and guessed correctly that her father hadn't picked them up, and she brusquely tells the confused kids that it must have slipped his mind but he'll probably be home when they get back. They pile into the car and head home.

At Sterling Cooper in the conference room, an Ann Margaret type is on the projector belting out,"BYE BYE SUGAR!" against a blue background. It's exactly what Patio wanted, a direct lift from Bye Bye Birdy, and it has been put together to perfection. The actress, the wardrobe, the music, the single take, the direction, the singing, it's all there. She takes every step in perfect accord with the script, she sings of the benefits of Patio, a 25-year-old acting 14 over the wonders of a diet drink. Sal has triumphed, the Agency has delivered to the client the exact thing they wanted and demanded.

They hate it.

Everybody at the table is astonished (with one exception), this is EXACTLY what they asked for. The Patio execs agree, they can't dispute that what was delivered is absolutely what they asked for, but it's not right. They can't say WHY it isn't right, but it isn't. Everybody is flummoxed (with one exception), how can they not like it? It's what they wanted! They appreciate the effort, the detail and skill that went into the construction of the ad, but something is off and they simply can't put their finger on what. Ken is horrified, seeing his backdoor into Pepsi falling away (part of why he could be so unconcerned about Pete's success with jai alai), and suggests they take a copy back to their office to look at again.

The Patio men are adamant though, this is not going to work. They are at least willing to be magnanimous, they can't blame Sterling Cooper for this, they are the ones who said what they wanted and they got exactly that, so it is a failure on THEIR part... but it is a failure. That marks the end of everything, and everybody knows it. Though they shake hands and promise next time will be better, everybody knows that Pepsi/Patio aren't going to come back for another campaign after this one didn't work out. Everybody heads out of the room, everybody dejected.... with one exception. Unable to hold back their great pleasure at this failure is Peggy Olson. She hated this idea from the first, fought against it, got told by men that they knew what women wanted better than her, had to watch everybody salivate over Ann Margaret, and got snapped at by Don that she wasn't an artist. The end result of all that? She was right and they were wrong, and she revels in that. It doesn't matter to her WHY they were wrong, just that they were. She said this was a bad campaign and she was right, and it makes her happy to see these men who insisted they knew better be proven wrong.

She catches Don's eye as she goes, he sees her smile but he doesn't comment or complain, he wasn't exactly at his best when he chewed her out and she was proven right, and there is nothing to be gained from calling her out on this now. Finally it is only Harry, Don and Roger left in the room, and Harry has to admit the Patio people were right: it is a failure. He just doesn't understand why, he can't figure out what is wrong: it looks right, smells right, tastes right... but it isn't. It is Roger Sterling of all people who cuts to the heart of the matter and explains what the obvious problem is and always would be: it's not Ann Margaret. Ironically, they put "Diet Ann Margaret" up on the screen, and just like diet soda everything about it was right and yet somehow it was "wrong".



Still in her ballet outfit, Sally is sitting on the front porch with a doll when a police car pulls up to the house. She opens the door and calls to Betty, who comes out confused and a little suspicious to see the policeman, what does he want? Confirming she is related to Eugene Hofstadt, he informs her that he has died, and for a second it looks like she is going to faint. He rushes to support her but she waves him off, standing back up straight and asking what happened. He informs her that Gene collapsed while in line at the A&P grocery store, and she struggles to think of what to say in response, stammering out,"I... I..." until the policeman sets her back on track by explaining they need to know what to do with the body.

Steadied somewhat by being given something to do, she heads inside the house and he follows. He gently closes the door behind him, neither of them noticing Sally who has been standing listening in horror to all this. She approaches the door and prepares to enter, but then stops and rests her head against the door, overwhelmed by emotions beyond her experience. Grandpa Gene, so kind and attentive to her, who was driving them in the car only this morning, is dead? And he died in line at the grocery store? Which means he died buying the peaches she asked for? Disbelief, sadness, guilt, all swirling about in the head of a little girl who was too young to really remember or be deeply impacted by the death of her grandmother.

Sal comes to see Don in his office, positive he's done for but trying to play it off with a joke about presenting himself to the woodshed, a joke he clearly more than half believes as he tries to die with dignity. Don shrugs, it must be terrible to have a client reject something they asked for, but it is something HE has never experienced, a self-compliment that also serves as a reminder to Sal that this was not Don's campaign. Sal isn't looking to redistribute blame though, he was the director and he let Don down, and he's willing if not happy to admit that.

Don is little perturbed when Allison enters the room, grumpily reminding her he's in a meeting. She tells him that it's Mrs Draper though who claims it is an urgent call, and Don guesses it must REALLY be urgent if Betty would insist and Allison would actually follow through on interrupting him. He waves off Sal's offer to come back later, taking the call to see what is going on, and learning about Gene's death. He takes a moment, then tells her how sorry he truly is, then offers to call William, telling her to stay put and he'll be home soon.

He collects his things, telling a concerned Sal it is nothing he can help him with. But he does have one parting request, he doesn't want Sal to ruin the one good thing to come out of this Patio disaster. Sal is confused, then thrilled when Don informs him that he is now a commercial director. Is he just saying that to make him feel better? Don pauses when asked this, then offers back the most honest response he could: Sal will know if Don hires him to make another commercial. With a pat on Sal's shoulder, he heads out, informing Allison he's done for the day. Sal is left behind, exhilarated: what should have been a triumph became a disaster and yet somehow he has walked out of it with an entirely revitalized career path. He did it, he has found a way out of the shrinking influence of his Art Department.

At Anita's, Peggy presents her mother with a brand new television, thrilling her. It's an Admiral too, impressing her, Peggy must be doing well if she can afford that. Peggy agrees she is, but Katherine finally grasps that there's something wrong, asking what the problem is. She has her sit down and Katherine immediately gets suspicious, especially when Anita tries to slip out of the room and Peggy sharply insists she stay. For a moment she is relieved when Peggy starts talking about the problems with her apartment and her long commute, thinking she is wanting to move in with them and promising her it is no problem, after all her and Peggy's father lived with Grandma and Grandpa for years and even had Anita then!

Peggy quickly explains that no she isn't wanting to move back in with the family, she's getting an apartment in Manhattan. Instantly Katherine's face falls, and she brings out the heavy guilt, grunting that it makes sense that they think she is the kind of mother who would rather have a TV than a daughter. She snarls that they can take it back, she doesn't want to be reminded of how stupid they think she is every-time she watches it, and then complains to Anita that family is cheap to "them" (city girls). Anita comes to Peggy's defense though, it was obvious that eventually Peggy would have to move out to where she works, but Katherine is having none of it. She complains bitterly that one day they'll both feel the heartbreak she's feeling now of being abandoned (she literally lives with one daughter and the other is constantly visiting) and then with utter contempt informs her own daughter that she'll get raped living in Manhattan.

This is monstrous and cruel but Peggy lets it sit for a second before trying to remind her that Brooklyn is just as dangerous as Manhattan, and besides she won't be living alone but with a roommate called Karen Ericson.... a nice Norwegian girl! But Katherine's mind is racing now with all the squalid, nasty reasons she can think of for why somebody would ever want to live in Manhattan... there's a man, isn't there!? Of course not, Peggy complains, and with a sneer Katherine asks why she should ever believe anything that Peggy says? Anita is horrified, openly calling her mother out for her cruelty, but Peggy knows when it is time to give up on an argument and simply stands and says good night. She tries to kiss her goodbye but Katherine deliberately cringes away, and Peggy doesn't push it, just leaves.

Anita escorts her to the door, offering laughably that this wasn't THAT bad! She offers excuses for her mother, that she has been through too many changes recently, the Pope dying hit her hard etc. As they talk, they hear the sound of the new television turning on, Katherine's moral objections to the "bribe" ignored or forgotten the moment they were out of the room. At least the two sisters have somewhat found common ground at last, and they kiss goodbye before Peggy heads for what will not be her apartment for very much longer.



Still in her ballet outfit, Sally is tucked away under the dining room table with her doll, listening to the voices of her parents and Aunt and Uncle in the next room reminiscing about Gene. "Eugene Hofstadt #2" William repeats, and Betty explains to Don that this was his nickname at the bank he worked at because there were two Eugene Hofstadts. Judy comments that now he's with Ruth and a red nosed Betty agrees that she hopes so, before admitting that he once asked what would happen when he got to heaven and had two wives. William considers that for a second and offers back that knowing Gloria, that won't be a problem, and they all can't help but laugh. After all, she did "abandon" Gene when his mental condition deteriorated, no matter how understandable it might have been they can't forget she did that.

But Sally hears the laughter and she doesn't understand, she storms into the kitchen where Betty is eating one of the peaches found in his car (so he bought them before going to the A&P) and demands to know why they're laughing. Don, pained to see his daughter's obvious grief, tries to calm her and William promises they weren't laughing, but she won't be lied too. She heard them laughing and she wants to know why? Because Grandpa Gene is dead and nobody seems to understand it, nobody is sad or upset they're just acting like nothing has happened even though he's gone forever and never coming back.

She's a child, and she's processing complex and deep emotions that have never really been a part of her experience before. She feels them strongly and intensely but also bluntly, and she doesn't grasp the more subtle expressions of grief that come with age. For her, her parents and her Aunt and Uncle sitting around a table drinking wine and quietly talking, even occasionally laughing, is not an expression of grief but indifference. Her mind grapples with but can't fully grasp the enormity of Gene's forever absence, and so she expresses it verbally, repeating over and over again concepts she can't quite believe or understand: he's gone. He's gone and he's never coming back. How can that be? What does that mean? Why isn't everybody else reacting to this horror?

Kiernan Shipka is a very talented child actor, and she pulls off the innocent and pure outage and grief of a child extremely well. Betty's absorbs her daughter's accusations and rage and adds them to the overwhelming guilt she is already carrying, but she can't spare the emotional strength to try and calm her daughter as she's reeling from the loss of her father, so she simply reverts to the simple authority of her maternal status, angrily demanding Sally be quiet and go watch television. Don, who didn't like Gene but shares in his wife's grief, simply nods when Sally turns her outraged appeal at this injustice his way, a silent admonishment to do as she is told.

She slumps into the living room, where the television is running through the major events of the day including the self-immolation of a Buddhist monk. The famous picture is shown on the television, Sally staring right at the death of yet another elderly man, this one broadcast around the world, coming from a place called Saigon in some country called Vietnam. Just as quickly as they've covered this death, the news moves on to the Stock Exchange and then an advertisement for cigarettes (they'll be calling their advertising agency tomorrow in a fury over the correlation with self-immolation, surely). Just another reminder that death happens and then life goes on, a heartbreaking life lesson for a little girl.



That evening Don wakes in bed, having fallen asleep beside Betty still fully dressed. He gets up and covers her with the blanket, then quietly makes his way into the kids' bedroom where he sees Sally asleep in bed, hugging a copy of her grandfather's The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire like a teddy bear.

Don moves into the spare room and looks at the cot where only last night his father-in-law was sleeping. It's use is done now though, and so he folds it up and pushes it into the corner. He stands for a moment, one hand on the past. Behind him, illuminated by the overhead light, is the crib for he and Betty's soon-to-be born baby.

Death happens... and then life goes on.

Episode Index

The Klowner
Apr 20, 2019

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Is it really a Jerusalem mad men write-up if there isn't a single Peggy/Betty switcheroo?

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.


The line delivery in the car when Gene yells at Bobby is one of my favorite bits in the entire show. :allears: "YER SISTER LIKES EM"

Yoshi Wins
Jul 14, 2013

Totally agree about how amazing Kiernan Shipka is in the scene where she yells at the adults. Hit me so hard the first time, and that was the moment I knew that Shipka was great. And I love how the scene ends with the iconic image of the immolating monk. In the 60s, children began to be raised largely by the media they consumed. This has only intensified as our world has become ever more media-saturated. I think the end of this scene indicates that Sally will get more of her attitudes about death from TV than she will from her overly distant parents.

The scene with Peggy telling her mother that she's moving to Manhattan is the moment I realized that her mother is written as having Borderline Personality Disorder. It's sort of hinted at in season 2, where she is notably hot and cold with Peggy, but here where she is facing "abandonment", we see so many of the signs and symptoms in one scene. Maybe this helps explain how Peggy is able to maintain a good relationship with Don, who does not match the BPD profile, but is also notably hot and cold.


Jerusalem posted:

Yes, it's daddy issues at the core just like it usually is, and Don - who certainly has daddy issues of his own - can't quite bear it. Is it a moral objection? A way of trying to convince himself that he's a better man than this (or more importantly, better the others at Sterling Cooper), not a vulture ready to feast on Horace's fortune? Whatever the reason, he says the most unexpected thing: Horace can do better, and he should reevaluate whether he really wants to blow all his money, which Sterling Cooper will happily take, on jai alai.

I think that it has a lot to do with the fact that Don has been both very poor and rich, and he knows how much the former sucks. It is agonizing to him to see a young man throwing away his fortune like this. Don's narcissism usually prevents him from empathizing with the people around him, but here I believe he can feel what Ho-Ho will be feeling when his money is gone. But then Ho-Ho removes all sympathy with his "your fault" line.

Jerusalem posted:

Now, with the knowledge that his mind is failing and his own life must be close to an end, Gene is full of regrets for the decisions he made and is trying to deal with those as best as he could. One of those regrets is Don, openly calling him a "joker" and saying it is his fault she ended up with somebody like him rather than realizing the true potential of what she was capable of. What his actual problem with Don is isn't entirely clear: he was never aware of their marital problems as far as I know, and Don has never been anything but respectful towards him when they're together. Maybe he simply sensed that Don doesn't particularly like him either? Maybe it's as simple as distrust for Don's lack of family/history? Maybe it's purely what he says, that he resents Don for tying his daughter down to an "ordinary" life when she was making a life for herself as a model? Or maybe it's just the fact that sometimes people just don't like each other for no real reason whatsoever.

I think we get insight into this in the season 2 episode The Inheritance. Gene suddenly lashes out at Don, and he says 2 things that I think are relevant here. First, "He has no people! You can't trust a person like that!" and the other is, "My daughter is a princess." The Hofstadts are a family that had country club memberships and have had money for a long time. Gene believed his princess daughter would marry someone else who was "royalty". Instead she married an unknown man with no connections to anyone. This is not what Gene had in mind. Don is aware of all this and resents Gene's classist judgment.


Beamed posted:

The line delivery in the car when Gene yells at Bobby is one of my favorite bits in the entire show. :allears: "YER SISTER LIKES EM"

Agreed. This episode is surprisingly hilarious considering that it involves someone dying. "I have a few rules. One of them is I don't like sailors" is my favorite line from the show that no one ever quotes. Cracks me up every single time.

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.


Yoshi Wins posted:

The scene with Peggy telling her mother that she's moving to Manhattan is the moment I realized that her mother is written as having Borderline Personality Disorder. It's sort of hinted at in season 2, where she is notably hot and cold with Peggy, but here where she is facing "abandonment", we see so many of the signs and symptoms in one scene. Maybe this helps explain how Peggy is able to maintain a good relationship with Don, who does not match the BPD profile, but is also notably hot and cold.

I don't think I agree with this take, it feels a bit like armchair psychology to me. There are plenty of people in real life who act very similarly to Peggy's mother in these scenes, and it's not due to latent undiagnosed disorders (though everyone should go to therapy).

JethroMcB
Jan 23, 2004

We're normal now.
We love your family.
Truly a hell of a performance from Sarah Drew depicting Kitty's dawning realization about why Sal hasn't been "tending" to her. She's always good when she shows up, but here she has to do almost all the heavy lifting with just her expressions.

I said it in spoilers a while back, but it's Ho-Ho's insistence that Keane's will serve NOTHING but Rum and Cervezas within a year that I find to be his funniest moment. Moreso than the Patxi jet-setting action series airing on all 3 networks simultaneously, that's the line that shows just how deluded he is on the impact and reach that Jai Alai will have on American culture.

Yoshi Wins posted:

I think that it has a lot to do with the fact that Don has been both very poor and rich, and he knows how much the former sucks. It is agonizing to him to see a young man throwing away his fortune like this. Don's narcissism usually prevents him from empathizing with the people around him, but here I believe he can feel what Ho-Ho will be feeling when his money is gone. But then Ho-Ho removes all sympathy with his "your fault" line.

You'd think the meeting with his father would have allayed his concerns, because I think it's clear that even when Ho-Ho crashes and burns, his very wealthy family will be there for him. This is not a "failure will result in poverty" thing, this is a "Middle-aged Ho-Ho, a well-connected man who sits on multiple executive boards, will be able to laugh about his youthfully folly over lunch at the yacht club" thing. But yes, Don is definitely trying to connect with this kid and break his bubble to let him know "You don't know how good you've got it."

GoutPatrol
Oct 17, 2009

*Stupid Babby*

I know salted ice cream is "a thing" now, but watching an old man with a table salt shaker throwing it on was very gross to me.

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Shimrra Jamaane
Aug 10, 2007

Obscure to all except those well-versed in Yuuzhan Vong lore.
Regards Sal Im so sad about what’s about to happen. :smith:

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