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Oh no we needed stimulus just not THAT MUCH because now people won't go back to work. It's all the same loving over-represented reactionary ghouls shouting about this but who knows how long the good will will last. Never underestimate the Democrats ability to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat. I sincerely hope this is a changing of the tides but who loving knows what happens next.
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Mar 7, 2021 18:46
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I'm willing to believe there is a universe in which the status quo is maintained in 2022. I'm more willing to believe that enough democrats in congress are gonna own goal themselves between now and then that enough people pulling the lever for blue shrug and embrace accelerationism and the seething mass of rage known as conservatives turn out in force to get rid of the commie socialists, and at the very least Warnock loses his seat to this.
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Mar 7, 2021 18:46
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Why would they do that? Shouldn't those same Democrats have let the GOP negotiate them down from $1.9 trillion? Why would they not campaign on the success of this stimulus?
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Mar 7, 2021 18:51
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And that seething mass of conservative rage did turn out to vote in force and lost the presidency and the senate despite their record setting turnout.
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Mar 7, 2021 18:53
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Mustang posted:And that seething mass of conservative rage did turn out to vote in force and lost the presidency and the senate despite their record setting turnout. I tend to agree on the previous post, but this post has a counter argument. People who vote democrat don't normally turn out like they did last year, and alot of those who did anddo don't normally vote democrat, they were just voting the current GOP out. We can't expect those numbers again(tho arguably neither can the GOP, since they had the cult of trump who are now disillusioned)
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Mar 7, 2021 18:57
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That was a full court press effort to get that blue wave which included some campaign promises that definitely didn't happen. Are they going to keep their foot on the gas and keep people engaged? What's the plan, was it win the Presidency and beep boop we're good? The GOP won't stop fomenting rage and have reliable voters and are stepping up their voter disenfranchisement game, what are the Dems going to do to counter all this? That's the big question I'm wondering and I don't think passing some legislation will get it done in the current climate. Especially when you've got Sinema front and center voting down min wage increase and the response to $2000 checks being "No you misunderstood"
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Mar 7, 2021 18:58
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Mustang posted:And that seething mass of conservative rage did turn out to vote in force and lost the presidency and the senate despite their record setting turnout. Not by an insurmountable margin that can't be overcome at some point in the next 4 years. Democrats need to create and push messaging touting their bill and GOP resistance, as well as socialist policies to build support.
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Mar 7, 2021 19:02
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lightpole posted:Not by an insurmountable margin that can't be overcome at some point in the next 4 years. Democrats need to create and push messaging touting their bill and GOP resistance, as well as socialist policies to build support. Yeah the fact that they were motivated enough to set what would've been the record should be terrifying. Most of them will probably continue to turn out. I don't think that's true of voters left of the GOP.
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Mar 7, 2021 19:08
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lightpole posted:Not by an insurmountable margin that can't be overcome at some point in the next 4 years. Democrats need to create and push messaging touting their bill and GOP resistance, as well as socialist policies to build support. They haven't even passed the thing yet, but you're definitely not wrong. I do have concerns about what kind of policies are going to pass constitutional muster with the new composition of the court.
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Mar 7, 2021 19:11
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That Works posted:So do you think that the GOP has been no better at the Dems in advancing their own policies during our lifetimes? "During our lifetimes" is a tricky question there, since I'm a bit younger than most of you guys (Born in '92). But it's actually really interesting to look at and examine, for a few different reasons. First and foremost, it's important to keep in mind that the root of conservative philosophy is to slow or reverse progress. A win for Democrats is (usually) on the basis of passing legislation or winning court cases that change the status quo, whereas Republicans can often count victories by preventing Dems from doing anything. Republicans have effectively won on gun control, for instance, by merely preventing the passage of any new legislation since 1994 and winning court cases like DC vs. Heller. Meanwhile, the Dems have arguably "won" on healthcare over that time period through the passage of the ACA, but it required an immense amount of time and effort to get a result that even its most charitable defenders would describe as "barely adequate." Meanwhile, when forced to actually pass legislation to actually advance their agenda, the Republican Party hasn't actually been able to accomplish much—despite some successes in the 90s and the Bush administration, they failed to pass a balanced budget amendment, "reform" social security, or repeal the ACA (Which by itself was arguably their single biggest policy goal from 2010-2017). It's simply harder to pass bills than it is to block them in our system, and for the most part that's benefited Republicans. It is also worth noting though that Republican policy goals have shifted somewhat dramatically since the 1990s. Republicans went into 1994 with Gingrich's "Contract With America" that promised a balanced budget amendment, congressional term limits, deeper cuts and restrictions on welfare, and a number of other provisions. Some of them passed, most of them didn't get through the Senate, but it offered a clear look at what policies Republicans were advocating in the early 1990s. Since then, more and more of those priorities have slipped away (When's the last time you heard about a balanced budget amendment?), replaced instead with a singular focus on culture war grievances and the naked desire to hold on to power for power's sake. It got to the point that in 2020 the RNC didn't even have a party platform, and instead ran almost entirely on "More Trump" and "gently caress the democrats." They also almost entirely gave up on actually trying to pass legislation, only managing to pass extremely unpopular tax cuts in 2017 through reconciliation and some inoffensive "sex trafficking is bad" poo poo during a period where they held the Presidency and both houses of Congress. So, have the Republicans been more successful in advancing their policies than the Democrats during my lifetime? That's a drat hard question. Put a gun to my head and I'll say the Democrats, if only because the society we live in today and the legislation that's been passed would be far more objectionable to the average Republican of '92 compared to the average Dem. But regardless of who's been more successful over that time period, it's important to understand the reasons for their successes, and recognizing that both the Republican and Democratic parties have changed tremendously over that time, both in tactics and in legislative goals.
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Mar 7, 2021 19:12
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lightpole posted:Not by an insurmountable margin that can't be overcome at some point in the next 4 years. Democrats need to create and push messaging touting their bill and GOP resistance, as well as socialist policies to build support. I'd also like to point out, Warnock won by less than 90k and over performed prior democrat candidates by a large margin. Georgia has basically already passed a full suite of voter suppression laws targeting people who would vote for him in 2022. So unless the Republicans runs someone really divisive, by republican standards I don't see Warnock retaining barring Democrats delivering actual tangible reforms and poo poo that people know is good and doesn't require some college nerd going "well you see this is good because means testing and marginal tax bracket and blahblahblah". Cutting folks a check was a good start a shame it only covers about a month depending on where you live.
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Mar 7, 2021 19:14
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I have trouble feeling any hope about it. The mainstream dems are trained to recoil from any accusation of socialism, there's no way they're going to start putting up actual socialist poo poo like jobs and housing guarantees and UBI as a party platform. We got people acting like we've achieved some progressive dream legislation with Sleepy Joe channeling his inner Tio Bernie because normal folk are gonna get $1400, once. Nobody wants to even touch the plain fact that UBI is not really a help with the way it works in most of these chud hell states. The next two elections are going to be defined by reaction to the illegitimate stolen fake election. Without the unifying target of getting Trump out to hold some center for the libs to rally around, the next generation of MTGs and Boeberts and Cawthorns are gonna swoop on in, and we're opening the throttle on the way to Crazytown 2024.
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Mar 7, 2021 19:15
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At least we all have a front row seat for it.
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Mar 7, 2021 19:17
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Why not? Those GOP voters turned out for Trump, they didn't show up in 2018. Between the Democrats and the GOP if I were a politician I would quite obviously prefer to be in the Democrats position going into 2022. Especially if the economy is in a good position due to the stimulus and more people being vaccinated.
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Mar 7, 2021 19:17
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A serious question, how long can the culture war stuff go on for.
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Mar 7, 2021 19:21
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Pine Cone Jones posted:A serious question, how long can the culture war stuff go on for. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Years_of_Lead_(Italy)
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Mar 7, 2021 19:22
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probably right up to and a little after the christian dominionist militia starts setting up checkpoints with cummins ram based technicals
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Mar 7, 2021 19:23
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US Berder Patrol posted:I have trouble feeling any hope about it. The mainstream dems are trained to recoil from any accusation of socialism, there's no way they're going to start putting up actual socialist poo poo like jobs and housing guarantees and UBI as a party platform. We got people acting like we've achieved some progressive dream legislation with Sleepy Joe channeling his inner Tio Bernie because normal folk are gonna get $1400, once. Nobody wants to even touch the plain fact that UBI is not really a help with the way it works in most of these chud hell states. The next two elections are going to be defined by reaction to the illegitimate stolen fake election. Without the unifying target of getting Trump out to hold some center for the libs to rally around, the next generation of MTGs and Boeberts and Cawthorns are gonna swoop on in, and we're opening the throttle on the way to Crazytown 2024. There is a lot more to that bill than the direct payments. That's not what we spent 1.9 trillion on
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Mar 7, 2021 19:24
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Very disappointed this was not about aqueducts
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Mar 7, 2021 19:25
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Grip it and rip it posted:There is a lot more to that bill than the direct payments. That's not what we spent 1.9 trillion on yes, obviously they set aside lots of money for cops as well, thanks guys
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Mar 7, 2021 19:27
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US Berder Patrol posted:probably right up to and a little after the christian dominionist militia starts setting up checkpoints with cummins ram based technicals I guess the BLM situation was a dry run
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Mar 7, 2021 19:28
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US Berder Patrol posted:yes, obviously they set aside lots of money for cops as well, thanks guys As well as social services in many states that are sometimes the exclusive lifeline to the indigent and homeless. Guess that doesn't warrant mentioning or whatever. gently caress it let the states go bankrupt, it's not like it can get worse right?
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Mar 7, 2021 19:30
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:I guess the BLM situation was a dry run don't you worry, the militias in the sagebrush country haven't gone anywhere
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Mar 7, 2021 19:32
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US Berder Patrol posted:probably right up to and a little after the christian dominionist militia starts setting up checkpoints with cummins ram based technicals When can we start drone striking these people by the way
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Mar 7, 2021 19:33
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Grip it and rip it posted:As well as social services in many states that are sometimes the exclusive lifeline to the indigent and homeless. Guess that doesn't warrant mentioning or whatever. gently caress it let the states go bankrupt, it's not like it can get worse right? ok you got me, they managed to help bz, joe biden
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Mar 7, 2021 19:36
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I solemnly approach a fully stocked all you can eat buffet. I go up to the resident billionaire who is on his fifth full plate and tell him I am starving. I haven’t eaten in weeks. He gives me a single chicken wing. “Thank you,” I say, knowing he could’ve done so much more. But at least I have my chicken wing, so I must be thankful. boop the snoot fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Mar 7, 2021 |
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Mar 7, 2021 19:38
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I find it rather remarkable that he asked for a 1.9 trillion stimulus, and got a 1.9 trillion stimulus passed out of Congress to sign. Republicans would have negotiated that thing down to 600 billion at the most. Obama offered 3 dollars in spending cuts for every 1 dollar in tax increases, and Republicans declined and instead forced the sequester on him. And the fact that the bill passed with only Democrats looks to me like it will be an advantage going forward? That's a lot of money that will be distributed to people, and you can always point to Republicans and say: "They voted against all of this!". Edit: And also, it seems some people are talking past each other. Dems could and should have done more, but that's the best they could do when their most conservative members are quite far to the right of the party's base. This is still much better than could have passed Congress with Mitch as Senate Majority Leader, and the reaction should be to elect more leftists Democrats to the Senate (and House), so that they no longer depend on Joe Manchin or Kyrsten Sinema. Torrannor fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Mar 7, 2021 |
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Mar 7, 2021 19:41
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*hands giant sweepstakes check for $20,000 to man in paisley tie this is a federal grant for your school board, use it to open your school safely in the face of the covid pandemic *the man is a member of an all-republican school board in West Brisket County Oklahoma good news guys! we got the money for the school assault rifle club!
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Mar 7, 2021 19:42
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US Berder Patrol posted:yes, obviously they set aside lots of money for cops as well, thanks guys I mean the dude's right, there's a ton of poo poo in the bill that's going to help a whole lot of people, and it's not just the direct payments or UI stuff. The child tax credit is huge, the state/local/tribal funding is going to be significant and help fund a lot of good projects, and there's even a measure in the Senate bill to make student debt cancellation non-taxable (Which it currently is). There's money to beef up ACA subsidies to get more people healthcare, a full subsidy for COBRA coverage for people who lost their jobs or are working reduced hours, and of course there's all the money for schools and vaccines to help the country get back to something resembling "normal" over the next year. It's a Big Bill, there's a lot to like, and the next reconciliation bill is probably going to be even bigger.
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Mar 7, 2021 19:46
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpD_4TgkJaU
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Mar 7, 2021 19:48
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US Berder Patrol posted:ok you got me, they managed to help Your heart obviously bleeds for the less fortunate.
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Mar 7, 2021 19:49
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Grip it and rip it posted:Your heart obviously bleeds for the less fortunate. I don’t think that’s what they were saying at all (your sarcasm is taken into account in my reply). boop the snoot fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Mar 7, 2021 |
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Mar 7, 2021 19:50
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US Berder Patrol fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Mar 7, 2021 |
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Mar 7, 2021 19:53
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boop the snoot posted:I solemnly approach a fully stocked all you can eat buffet. I go up to the resident billionaire who is on his fifth full plate and tell him I am starving. I haven’t eaten in weeks.
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Mar 7, 2021 19:53
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US Berder Patrol fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Mar 7, 2021 |
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Mar 7, 2021 19:54
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If you guys want to have slapfights where you insult each other and call each other names, take it to PMs. Disagree with each other all you want, but I'm going to start taking a zero-tolerance stance on the toxicity in this thread if you assholes can't stop smearing poo poo on yourselves.
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Mar 7, 2021 19:59
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boop the snoot posted:I solemnly approach a fully stocked all you can eat buffet. I go up to the resident billionaire who is on his fifth full plate and tell him I am starving. I haven’t eaten in weeks. The problem is this argument goes in a circle here between whats possible, what's necessary, accepting the status quo because change is impossible, pushing for extreme change because its necessary, helping starving people now or delaying their pain for greater future gains, deal with the world as it is or as it should be, etc. Democrats have a good start and need to build on it.
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Mar 7, 2021 20:18
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lightpole posted:The problem is this argument goes in a circle here between whats possible, what's necessary, accepting the status quo because change is impossible, pushing for extreme change because its necessary, helping starving people now or delaying their pain for greater future gains, deal with the world as it is or as it should be, etc. The point is don’t say thank you or be happy for a chicken wing when the person giving it to you is sitting at an all you can eat buffet. FOR CLARITY SINCE PEOPLE DONT SEEM TO UNDERSTAND AND WANT TO MAKE THIS ENTIRE THING BLACK AND WHITE: THIS DOES NOT MEAN DONT TAKE THE CHICKEN WING.
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Mar 7, 2021 20:20
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boop the snoot posted:The point is don’t say thank you or be happy for a chicken wing when the person giving it to you is sitting at an all you can eat buffet. It wasn't given willingly and a good portion of the country thought they wanted something else. Gains are being made by executive order and a 50+1 senate majority and can easily be foiled with the shift of a small number of votes. Democrats have to make people feel like it was a good thing that represents greater possibilities.
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Mar 7, 2021 20:31
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lightpole posted:It wasn't given willingly and a good portion of the country thought they wanted something else. Gains are being made by executive order and a 50+1 senate majority and can easily be foiled with the shift of a small number of votes. Democrats have to make people feel like it was a good thing that represents greater possibilities. This just makes it sound like we have to eat the poo poo sandwich now so we can wash it down with a poo poo soda later.
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Mar 7, 2021 20:32
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