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Darkest Dungeon is the style of game where maintenance is way easier than trying to fix things afterwards. Negative things like bad traits rapidly spiral into more negative things, but if you can manage to keep things under control from the start and nip the biggest problems at the bud, you have a much easier time dealing with any further setbacks as well. Also something a remarkable amount of people never realize: Outside of combat, you can change skills freely even while in a dungeon. You can swap to boss-killing abilities before a boss fight, or to specific camping skills you might need before camping, or whatever else. Makes life quite a bit easier.
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Mar 10, 2021 11:32
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Tangledeep is pretty good now especially with the DLC for some more endgame content. It's a shame it never seemed to really take off in popularity, it's probably my favourite of the "standard" loot and fight sorta roguelike.
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Mar 10, 2021 12:15
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Razakai posted:Tangledeep is pretty good now especially with the DLC for some more endgame content. It's a shame it never seemed to really take off in popularity, it's probably my favourite of the "standard" loot and fight sorta roguelike. I still have to play the second expansion, despite buying it months ago...
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Mar 10, 2021 12:24
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Turin Turambar posted:I still have to play the second expansion, despite buying it months ago... Dragons? It's more of an endgame one but adds some nice items to fill out some gaps, and the first dragon can be killed by about floor 15, which unlocks a crafting system. Good way to reroll orbs and stuff.
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Mar 10, 2021 12:49
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Kanfy posted:Also something a remarkable amount of people never realize: Outside of combat, you can change skills freely even while in a dungeon. You can swap to boss-killing abilities before a boss fight, or to specific camping skills you might need before camping, or whatever else. Makes life quite a bit easier. WHAT. You make me want to reinstall just to play it now. I only ever played it on Radiant mode, and still the grind was rather heavy. I only sent in like 2 expiditions into the final dungeon (one was full of lvl1 lambs, just for the lol cheevo)
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Mar 10, 2021 13:49
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Kanfy posted:Also something a remarkable amount of people never realize: Outside of combat, you can change skills freely even while in a dungeon. You can swap to boss-killing abilities before a boss fight, or to specific camping skills you might need before camping, or whatever else. Makes life quite a bit easier. i refuse to believe this was t rue at launch 
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Mar 10, 2021 14:14
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Razakai posted:Tangledeep is pretty good now especially with the DLC for some more endgame content. It's a shame it never seemed to really take off in popularity, it's probably my favourite of the "standard" loot and fight sorta roguelike. I've been having a blast with it on Switch. It is easy to drown in all the systems and side features but it's a wonderful game
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Mar 10, 2021 14:30
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Kanfy posted:Outside of combat, you can change skills freely even while in a dungeon. You can swap to boss-killing abilities before a boss fight, or to specific camping skills you might need before camping, or whatever else. Makes life quite a bit easier. this is second only to discovering that you could speed up time while traveling in mount and blade after playing it for 1000 hours
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Mar 10, 2021 15:17
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cock hero flux posted:this is second only to discovering that you could speed up time while traveling in mount and blade after playing it for 1000 hours Wait what
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Mar 10, 2021 15:25
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Angry Diplomat posted:Wait what ha, it always gets someone hit control+space while traveling and time will pass at like 10x speed
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Mar 10, 2021 15:30
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cock hero flux posted:ha, it always gets someone I am going to bury myself alive
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Mar 10, 2021 15:35
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i wish darkest dungeon had extra radiant difficulty or something. important losses, even on radiant, take way too long to replace. and the game rewards preparation so much that you either look stuff up to make sure your guys don't die to unexpected bs, or you take the losses and accept spending x amount of hours grinding up new heroes. really makes the game a drag imo.
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Mar 10, 2021 16:28
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Yeah any tactics-like game where you have a persistent squad you level up and carry through the whole game with you breaks my brain because I cannot handle losing anybody I've used for a dozen battles. If a game wants me to be able to keep moving on and accept casualties then they need to make my squad faceless, nameless robots or something. I'm currently stuck on one battle in Berwick Saga because I keep reloading a dozen times and then rage-quitting because I can't get through the battle without losing somebody.
Imagined fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Mar 10, 2021 |
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Mar 10, 2021 17:02
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i don't mind permanent losses at all usually, but DD is so stingy. if it auto-upgraded your characters' weapons and skills to the highest upgraded levels and gave you way more high level recruits i think i'd really love it. as it is now i either play extremely conservatively and ruin the game, look things up before and ruin the game, savescum and ruin the game, or i lose two characters to that nasty crocodile in the courtyard and spend a bunch of time retraining new ones, outfitting them, buying skills, etc. and ruin the game because that's gonna happen a lot.
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Mar 10, 2021 17:21
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I dunno. People are super-replacable in DD as long as you've been keeping up on Stagecoach upgrades. Hell, town upgrades in general are way more important then people- Darkest Dungeon drives home early that your least important and most replaceable resource are adventurers and once that clicked I've never really felt too mussed about some rank 5 or 6 dying to a blunder or something I didn't plan for unless they were, specifically, built up for a team about to go into the Darkest Dungeon itself due to the mechanics of going into and surviving after that dungeon specifically, and even then a few runs would usually spot me another cantidate. People aren't precious, you don't need four gods to make dungeons runnable flawlessly, you just need four goons with strong enough backs to get out of the dungeon with my precious heirlooms. The very way the game works tells you not to get too used to a small team of favorites as part of a dungeon strike force- you can't ride them to the end if you wanted to- but to maintain a decently-sized roster of dudes who'll do well enough when called upon. If they need to spend the next month drinking away the trauma of that trip while their fourth member gets sent out into the woods never to be seen again because she's ranting about unseen horrors that costse way too much gold to fix, that's fine. There's more where that came from.
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Mar 10, 2021 17:32
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I just found the actual maintenance overhead was so oppressive it gradually killed my enjoyment of the game - ironic, given an oppressive atmosphere is one of the strengths of the game I love the presentation, love the setting and style, the core gameplay is solid, but the little cuts eventually killed my interest in playing - I especially got sour and salty about the gotcha mechanics and bosses, it was either spoil myself (which I *really* didn't want to do given how fun exploration and discovery were), or die horribly and waste time remaking everything. Repeating everything on higher difficulty also just felt way too padded, if it had ended sooner I think my impressions would be way more favorable.
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Mar 10, 2021 18:25
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Darkest Dungeon is a game in which you manage an odd couple named Dismas and Renaud, supported by a revolving cast of assorted nobodies. Anyone can die and that's fine, except Dismas and Renaud; if either of them die, you have lost the game.
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Mar 10, 2021 18:31
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Mr. Locke posted:I dunno. People are super-replacable in DD as long as you've been keeping up on Stagecoach upgrades. Hell, town upgrades in general are way more important then people- Darkest Dungeon drives home early that your least important and most replaceable resource are adventurers and once that clicked I've never really felt too mussed about some rank 5 or 6 dying to a blunder or something I didn't plan for unless they were, specifically, built up for a team about to go into the Darkest Dungeon itself due to the mechanics of going into and surviving after that dungeon specifically, and even then a few runs would usually spot me another cantidate. i didn't play optimally or anything close to it but i found that between (re)levelling, diseases, sanity, quirks, weapons, skills, town upgrades etc. it wasn't an enjoyable game to take losses in. and this was on the difficulty with the least grind.
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Mar 10, 2021 19:00
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Yes, the problem with losses isn’t that they’re irreplaceable but that it takes a bunch of grinding to replace them in a game that is already highly grindy. I completed the game on the standard mode without losing anyone because I looked up the bosses and darkest dungeon layouts before I went in, and it was still dangerously close to overstaying its welcome at 80+ hours. going into the darkest dungeon blind and having to grind a bunch of level 6es back up after losing people from bringing the wrong team simply due to lack of knowledge would have added nothing to the experience but boredom. if you’re supposed to get information through trial and error then it shouldn’t take hours to try again after one trial.
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Mar 10, 2021 19:08
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I don't understand the appeal of DD at all. It's a grind-heavy game that punishes you dramatically for taking risks which just seems like a broken formula.
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Mar 10, 2021 19:14
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woke kaczynski posted:Thanks for all the recs! I used to play a lot of pokemon mystery dungeon on ds/3ds, and $20 seems a lot more palatable than $60 for the switch edition. I vaguely remember playing POWDER years ago so I'm redownloading. Tossed Slipways on the wishlist too. What's the app you found? Is it Pathos?
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Mar 10, 2021 19:16
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No Wave posted:I don't understand the appeal of DD at all. It's a grind-heavy game that punishes you dramatically for taking risks which just seems like a broken formula. It’s a mechanically bad videogame with an absolutely fantastic presentation that, for me, made it worth playing in spite of the issues
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Mar 10, 2021 19:20
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Gay Rat Wedding posted:It’s a mechanically bad videogame with an absolutely fantastic presentation that, for me, made it worth playing in spite of the issues Play Iratus instead, then. It's the same game, but with better presentation and most of the issues fixed. You still spend far too long on a run, but not because you're forced to retread ground.
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Mar 10, 2021 19:26
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habituallyred posted:If you want "Bionic Dues, but with less loot," Mainframe Defenders scratches that same itch for me these days. 4 bot teams with 4 pieces of equipment each compared to the piles of stuff in Bionic Dues. Still fun to optimize each bots loadout, and role within the team. Don't think everything has been properly rebalanced around the new armor values. One piece of equipment in particular adds corrosion damage equal to armor and is now completely worthless. I played through this a patch or two ago. Pretty good, though I’m not sure how much replay value it has
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Mar 10, 2021 19:33
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Jedit posted:Play Iratus instead, then. It's the same game, but with better presentation and most of the issues fixed. You still spend far too long on a run, but not because you're forced to retread ground. Iratus’ aesthetics turned me off instantly. The DD Ancestor is one of the best parts of the game; Iratus just sounds smug and annoying. He’s supposed to be this ancient evil mastermind, but he talks like your creepy uncle making off-color jokes and being mean to the waiter. And you’re going to hear those jokes a lot, because he has like five lines for killing enemies in a game where you kill hundreds. The units - both your undead and the enemies - are badly-proportioned, pudgy grey lumps, and they use that horrible awkward stretch-and-rotate style of animation for all their movements, which makes combat feel weightless and anticlimactic. I don’t doubt that it’s a better game mechanically, but I can’t play a game that looks and sounds that bad.
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Mar 10, 2021 20:35
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Iratus was kinda boring imo. It has many of the same issues as DD with none of the presentation to carry for it. It was also pretty easy to find one working strat and just beat the entire game with it, since you aren't forced to switch out your team members occasionally.
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Mar 10, 2021 20:37
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Imagined posted:Yeah any tactics-like game where you have a persistent squad you level up and carry through the whole game with you breaks my brain because I cannot handle losing anybody I've used for a dozen battles. If a game wants me to be able to keep moving on and accept casualties then they need to make my squad faceless, nameless robots or something. I'm currently stuck on one battle in Berwick Saga because I keep reloading a dozen times and then rage-quitting because I can't get through the battle without losing somebody. I think Urtuk: The Desolation has the best solution for this. If somebody dies the first time they're only injured for X days and need a (somewhat limited) resource. If they die again during this period then they're dead for good. So somebody dying is quite inconvenient because you'll have to bench them, but you can cope with it. Too many people dying is still a problem though, so you can't cheese it too much. It's also a really good game otherwise. Walh Hara fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Mar 11, 2021 |
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Mar 10, 2021 21:30
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I burned out and dropped DD long before they added radiant mode, so I'm not sure how much that fixed things, but the aspect that I found most galling and demotivating about the grindiness is how unnecessary and obviously padded-out it was. Like, okay there's eight bosses across four zones, and the first chunk of the game is about building a roster and clearing those. Then it's done after a bunch of hours and the next phase of the game is... clearing out the exact same set of 8 bosses again, with higher stats and no new mechanics? And then I guess after that there's a semi-optional opportunity to do the exact same set of bosses a third time. How about, if you ran out of content to add, just let me go ahead and beat the game instead of running laps? That, compounded with the systems where you have to grind for money and experience to replace losses any time you gently caress up, really made me feel like the game wasn't respecting my time. King of Bleh fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Mar 10, 2021 |
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Mar 10, 2021 21:36
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I didn't even get as far as all that in Darkest Dungeon and had no idea it got that bad. It felt like a slog to me from the jump, honestly. It's too bad because the vibe was amazing in that game. Still, I think disrespect of time is pretty much the biggest faux pas a game can commit these days. There's just too much out there and not enough hours to play. That's exactly why I adore quick, run based games anymore Hey looks like Star Renegades made its way to ps4. I caught a glimpse a while back. Any good? unattended spaghetti fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Mar 10, 2021 |
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Mar 10, 2021 22:04
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BurningBeard posted:I didn't even get as far as all that in Darkest Dungeon and had no idea it got that bad. It felt like a slog to me from the jump, honestly. It's too bad because the vibe was amazing in that game. The writing is game destroyingly bad but the mechanics seem nifty
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Mar 10, 2021 22:35
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The art is stellar, the music is great, the combat is decent, the writing is astonishingly horrific
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Mar 10, 2021 23:51
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Walh Hara posted:I think Urtuk: The Desolation has the best solution for this. If somebody dies the first time they're only injured for X days and need a (somewhat limited) resource. If they die again during this period then they're dead for good. So somebody dieing is quite inconvenient because you'll have to bench them, but you can cope with it. Too many people dieing is still a problem though, so you can't cheese it too much. I've been thinking of picking up that game for a while. It looks nifty. This is similar to how I mod the modern Xcom games to play because I want deaths to be epic. Instant deaths are disabled so everyone has a chance to bleed out which leads to epic fighting retreats trying to medevac your better soldiers which can even cascade the loses more. Which is basically how I want roguelike deaths to be. I hate that in proper roguelikes my deaths tend to be from not paying attention because I got bored chewing through hordes of fodder and didn't notice Special Gnoll which wiped me. Not exactly an epic death. This still happens to me in Dungeonmans but I don't mind so much since I love the little details you get on death and that it makes a world impact.
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Mar 11, 2021 00:09
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gnosia is a roguelite :thinking emoji:
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Mar 11, 2021 00:54
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Snooze Cruise posted:gnosia is a roguelite :thinking emoji: Hrm..True.
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Mar 11, 2021 00:56
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I watched a steamer talking to his chat explain that curse of the dead gods is a roguelike I began with the berlin interpretation and then 
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Mar 11, 2021 01:00
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if you do not like the permanent losses of darkest dungeon I recommend cheating.
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Mar 11, 2021 04:16
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Snooze Cruise posted:gnosia is a roguelite :thinking emoji: I adore both gnosia and having roguelike mean an actual concrete genre so I was about to be real mad this is a correct take though and you should say it
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Mar 11, 2021 04:20
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BurningBeard posted:I didn't even get as far as all that in Darkest Dungeon and had no idea it got that bad. It felt like a slog to me from the jump, honestly. It's too bad because the vibe was amazing in that game. I quite enjoyed it, at least til I got a few wins. No idea what yall mean about the writing. It seemed reasonably serviceable.
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Mar 11, 2021 04:53
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woke kaczynski posted:I adore both gnosia and having roguelike mean an actual concrete genre so I was about to be real mad Oh poo poo I didn't realize this was out!! Just on Switch, right? Gonna buy it tonight
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Mar 11, 2021 05:50
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goferchan posted:Oh poo poo I didn't realize this was out!! Just on Switch, right? Gonna buy it tonight It's extremely good...Enjoy gamer. 
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Mar 11, 2021 05:56
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