|
Jimbot posted:Oh and in a post Man of Steel world, there's no reason why Marvel can't choreograph and film exciting fights between two indestructible demi-gods. There was no weight or impact in that fight. I feel like the execution of that sequence is down to inexperience. Not with Directing - Matt Shakman's been working for like 20 years - but with this type of action. Marvel tends to hire people who don't come from an action background, so most of their homework is just going to be other superhero movies, which keeps things looking samey. Plus there's the previs / second unit element that drove Lucrecia Martel away from Black Widow. Marvel's looking for directors to deal with the actors and story, while the action is basically just an assembly line at this point. And when the director actually does get involved with the expensive stuff, a lot of the time they either aren't comfortable with the CG process or don't know how to review unfinished work, so there's a communication barrier between the stuff they might like to see and the work that's actually being done that keeps things from being polished to a higher level.
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 22:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 20, 2024 03:42 |
|
|
Yeah, but even, say, The Boys has more interestingly directed action on a lesser budget.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 22:43
|
|
|
Some people straight up don’t get action beats that well. There’s more too it then just people fighting in a room. A good action scene has character beats interwoven into the fights, or at least able to tell a story with the action.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 22:49
|
|
|
Darko posted:Yeah, but even, say, The Boys has more interestingly directed action on a lesser budget. But that was intended to be an action show from the beginning. This wasn't. This isn't necessarily a defense of WandaVision. But it's as if (and I know this isn't a perfect metaphor, but go with me) How I Met Your Mother had a fight scene break out at the end of it. I don't care who they brought in to direct it, the production isn't setup for that, because that's not the show they made. Again, not a defense, because maybe they should have made that show from the beginning. But maybe that would have made the sitcom and surreal parts at the beginning worse. I don't really know. It's hard to do everything well. But I'd rather they focus on doing the other parts well, since the action parts are only ever going to be, you know, action laser fights, no matter how good they are.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 23:00
|
|
|
There's definitely going to be a difference between a single-director show like Wandavision and an episode director show like The Boys (which Matt Shakman also did an episode of, apparently). I haven't seen The Boys, but to use another Disney+ show as an example, the Mandalorian seems to have benefitted from giving the individual episode directors time to prep their show while the earlier episodes were filming. It's possible that a lot of the full CG previs was done on autopilot while Shakman was busy with what he was shooting on that particular day.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 23:00
|
|
|
thrawn527 posted:But that was intended to be an action show from the beginning. This wasn't. Uh oh, now I'm gonna talk about Community's action scenes, haha.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 23:02
|
|
|
Jimbot posted:Man, I just want to say that my enthusiasm and interest in WandaVision really did fall off a cliff. Even though I don't have reverence for the material it was spoofing I thought the start was strong and got a whole lot more interesting with the twist and the moral and ethical dilemmas it present but then it fell through the floor when the cackling villainess showed up and all those things it established it brushed aside and used as window dressing for two character shooting magic at each other. "They don't know what you sacrificed for them" you say to the women who trapped an entire town, involuntarily, in an existential nightmare prison. I agree with all of this. It was going strong until the last 2 episodes where all the build up and mystery was resolved with a wet fart. I also hate how they kept teasing poo poo that ended in bullshit fake outs. The love persevering line is a total banger though. I genuinely want to say the whole show was worth it for that one line
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 23:23
|
|
|
Darko posted:Uh oh, now I'm gonna talk about Community's action scenes, haha. I don't know. We're getting away from the thread's theme. Stick to Frasier action scenes, please.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 23:23
|
|
|
thrawn527 posted:But that was intended to be an action show from the beginning. This wasn't. So your defense is... they made a nine episode show not knowing it would end in a big battle. Everyone posted:I don't know. We're getting away from the thread's theme. Stick to Frasier action scenes, please. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpImet3Xwgw Streets ahead of the MCU.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2021 00:21
|
|
|
I can’t believe “streets ahead” became a real phrase after its genesis on community as a joke about Pierce trying to coin a new phrase and everyone telling him to stop.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2021 00:42
|
|
|
YOLOsubmarine posted:I can’t believe “streets ahead” became a real phrase after its genesis on community as a joke about Pierce trying to coin a new phrase and everyone telling him to stop. sounds like someone's streets behind.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2021 00:46
|
|
|
Dan Harmon is cursed to have things he makes intentionally stupid be the things he's remembered for. Streets Ahead, Annie's Boobs, Pick Rick, Szechuan Sauce.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2021 00:47
|
|
|
"Streets ahead" is as old as the hills. Maybe Community popularised it in America?
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2021 00:58
|
|
|
Everyone posted:I don't know. We're getting away from the thread's theme. Stick to Frasier action scenes, please. Hannibal was a bloody crime drama super up its own rear end and it had an amazing fight as the opener of s02e01 that I still watch from time to time. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2021 01:21
|
|
|
I don't think it's fair to compare any TV show to Hannibal, really.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2021 01:27
|
|
|
Violator posted:Hannibal was a bloody crime drama super up its own rear end and it had an amazing fight as the opener of s02e01 that I still watch from time to time. The reason that came about is Laurence Fishburne going "You know I have all this Matrix training, right?" and them going "Oh...huh.". Mads base was dance and gymnastics, so highly choreographed physicality is sort of his starting position. That's the thing, you can do scenes like that....but everyone involved needs a specific type of training. Both those men had years of prep to look good doing that. To do action you need actors that know how to sell it, choreographers that know how to plan it, film crews that know how to shoot it, editors that know how to cut it, on and on down the list. Any weak link in that process and you can be screwed. What it means is you have to know you are doing action, care that you are doing action, and then budget the time and money needed to get it right. If you simply don't care that much about it, well, you cheat and move on with the story. Marvel has been doing it for over a decade. You can't pretend it isn't working for them. They are unquestionably weak in fight scenes, but it hasn't seemed to matter.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2021 01:36
|
|
|
2house2fly posted:"Streets ahead" is as old as the hills. Maybe Community popularised it in America? Yeah, Harmon never claimed to have created it. He worked it into the show after someone blasted him with it on Twitter. He had never heard the phrase before and couldn't get it out of his head. It's happened a few times with him, see also he obsession with 'cum gutters'.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2021 01:54
|
|
|
well why not posted:I don't think it's fair to compare any TV show to Hannibal, really. It's fair to compare Clarice to Hannibal but only to show your utter contempt for Clarice.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2021 03:00
|
|
|
Now you reminded me of how any hope for a Hannibal take on Silence of the Lambs is dead because of that apparently-terrible show, so thanks for that.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2021 03:12
|
|
|
wyoming posted:So your defense is... they made a nine episode show not knowing it would end in a big battle. I literally said it wasn’t a defense. What the hell? My point, and I thought I was making this clear, is that you could either be a Jack of All Trades and a Master of None, or focus on one or two things and sacrifice some other things. They focused on the sitcom and surreal parts, while not hiring anyone who was good at shooting action scenes.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2021 03:33
|
|
|
Darko posted:Uh oh, now I'm gonna talk about Community's action scenes, haha. Surely the Justin Lin episodes had better action than the Russo ones.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2021 03:36
|
|
|
Mulva posted:The reason that came about is Laurence Fishburne going "You know I have all this Matrix training, right?" and them going "Oh...huh.". Mads base was dance and gymnastics, so highly choreographed physicality is sort of his starting position. That's the thing, you can do scenes like that....but everyone involved needs a specific type of training. Both those men had years of prep to look good doing that. The worst offender to me is Iron Fist. You have a show about a guy whose power is literally martial arts, and you cast a guy without any sort of training, in martial arts or any other kind of physical activity that could help portraying that role. It's the dumbest decision and I heard nothing good of the show, at all.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2021 05:18
|
|
|
Grendels Dad posted:The worst offender to me is Iron Fist. You have a show about a guy whose power is literally martial arts, and you cast a guy without any sort of training, in martial arts or any other kind of physical activity that could help portraying that role. It's the dumbest decision and I heard nothing good of the show, at all. I saw a brief fight in an evidence room or something and it genuinely looked like someone parodying that style of quick cut action.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2021 05:34
|
|
|
Even better is that he forgets how to be good at martial arts if he's not in a good mood. he's never in a good mood
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2021 07:18
|
|
|
Inspector 34 posted:Even better is that he forgets how to be good at martial arts if he's not in a good mood. he's never in a good mood Someone get him some weed
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2021 08:17
|
|
|
Inspector 34 posted:Even better is that he forgets how to be good at martial arts if he's not in a good mood. he's never in a good mood That sounds like an amazing concept, to be honest. The best fighter in human history... but only when he is Sally Hawkins In Happy Go Lucky levels of cheerful.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2021 08:17
|
|
|
Inspector 34 posted:Even better is that he forgets how to be good at martial arts if he's not in a good mood. he's never in a good mood The actor or the character?
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2021 08:19
|
|
|
It's genuinely surprising how bad Iron Fist is. I'm still salty about it, because I really liked the other Netflix Marvel shows. Almost every aspect of it fails, from writing to performance to cinematography to editing. It's the second-worst thing Marvel has ever made, after Inhumans which was also Scott Buck. It's even more frustrating in retrospect, because I quite like a few actors from it. Sacha Dhawan is wonderful on The Great, Jessica Henwick is really charismatic, and Tom Pelphrey is loving PHENOMENAL. Even in Iron Fist you can tell he's way better than the material, and the fact he didn't win an Emmy for Ozark is criminal.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2021 08:39
|
|
|
Grendels Dad posted:The worst offender to me is Iron Fist. You have a show about a guy whose power is literally martial arts, and you cast a guy without any sort of training, in martial arts or any other kind of physical activity that could help portraying that role. It's the dumbest decision and I heard nothing good of the show, at all. Finn Jones got really screwed over with this. When he was cast he assumed he'd get months of prep, though ended up with three weeks of martial arts training (which was interrupted by rehearsals and costume fittings etc ) and then on set he was given the fight choreography 15 minutes before they started shooting the scenes.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2021 10:04
|
|
|
McCloud posted:I agree with all of this. It was going strong until the last 2 episodes where all the build up and mystery was resolved with a wet fart. I also hate how they kept teasing poo poo that ended in bullshit fake outs. What did they tease that didn't pay off?
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2021 11:44
|
|
|
Xealot posted:It's genuinely surprising how bad Iron Fist is. I'm still salty about it, because I really liked the other Netflix Marvel shows. Almost every aspect of it fails, from writing to performance to cinematography to editing. It's the second-worst thing Marvel has ever made, after Inhumans which was also Scott Buck. Defenders is worse than Iron First to the point that Daredevil is somehow worse in it than Iron Fist is.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2021 13:30
|
|
|
Darko posted:Uh oh, now I'm gonna talk about Community's action scenes, haha. This is a fair point, but I think a rare exception.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2021 15:21
|
|
|
Xealot posted:Luke Cage sort of did it, in S1 anyway. Parts of it were in there, the 13th amendment suggestions of Luke getting railroaded into jail and then forced into modern-day Mandingo Fighting, the Tuskegee Study parallels to the not-voluntary experiment that gave him powers. And there's the central imagery of the show being a bullet-riddled hoodie, flipped into a symbol of power. There's a weird Obama non-rapy Cosby tone with that poo poo, castigating black young people for listening to hip hop or whatever. Pretty corny.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2021 15:53
|
|
|
Mulva posted:The reason that came about is Laurence Fishburne going "You know I have all this Matrix training, right?" and them going "Oh...huh.". Mads base was dance and gymnastics, so highly choreographed physicality is sort of his starting position. That's the thing, you can do scenes like that....but everyone involved needs a specific type of training. Both those men had years of prep to look good doing that. It didn't hurt that Eric Kripke, The Boys showrunner, had 5 years of shooting varied action scenes every episode on Supernatural. You need experts at it to do it right. So I'm not that harsh on them loving it up on Wandavision. What I am especially harsh is on the writing itself, which screwed the pooch by the end. Setting that aside, previs people get a lot of negativity. But for subpar movies, sometimes they're its only saving grace. The only good thing, for example, in Thor 2 was the end fight which looked like it came from a different movie. A much better one.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2021 16:30
|
|
|
Shageletic posted:There's a weird Obama non-rapy Cosby tone with that poo poo, castigating black young people for listening to hip hop or whatever. Pretty corny.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2021 16:57
|
|
|
Some new ad for Falcon and the Winter Soldier had Sebastian Stan describing it as being like an 80's buddy comedy. So I'm assuming in a few weeks we're going to be getting a lot of people saying stuff like "An action series that is also comedic, and where the white guy is the sidekick to the black character? Marvel has done the unimaginable yet again!" Speaking of Sebastian Stan, I remember there was that brief period in the late 00s/early 10s where he was in Black Swan, Hot Tub Time Machine, the first season of Once Upon a Time, the criminally underrated Kings, Political Animals... it seemed like he was posed to take off and be a major star in his own right. And then he got sucked into Marvel.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2021 17:04
|
|
|
He's sorta just nothing now unfortunately. I couldn't be less enthusiastic about their new series. I'll watch the 1st episode but if it's just Marvel action for 24 minutes with 10 minutes of credits I will just wait till it's done.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2021 17:09
|
|
|
Still say, Wandavision makes more sense in its original context as teasing filler between movies rather than the only thing the MCU has on the plate for over a year or two. We were supposed to be buying tickets to Dr Strange 2 by now.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2021 17:33
|
|
|
Chairman Capone posted:Speaking of Sebastian Stan, I remember there was that brief period in the late 00s/early 10s where he was in Black Swan, Hot Tub Time Machine, the first season of Once Upon a Time, the criminally underrated Kings, Political Animals... it seemed like he was posed to take off and be a major star in his own right. And then he got sucked into Marvel. Nothing else I've seen him in made me think much of him as an actor, but he was outstanding in I, Tonya. Genuinely one of the more impressive portrayals of an abusive partner I've ever seen.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2021 17:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 20, 2024 03:42 |
|
|
Shageletic posted:There's a weird Obama non-rapy Cosby tone with that poo poo, castigating black young people for listening to hip hop or whatever. Pretty corny. Yeah, that's what I mean by the respectability politics. It's a weird, tone-deaf energy that slides its way in, to tell you the problems black people face in Harlem come from not living right these days, and not from widening wealth inequality or patterns of racist law enforcement. Uncle Boogeyman posted:Nothing else I've seen him in made me think much of him as an actor, but he was outstanding in I, Tonya. Genuinely one of the more impressive portrayals of an abusive partner I've ever seen. That movie way toned down how abusive Jeff Gillooly actually was, too. IRL Tonya Harding described some way more nightmarish poo poo happening to her in that relationship. The fact Sebastian Stan still manages to convey some of that menace with less in the actual text is a pretty solid endorsement of his ability to act. Also, yeah, Kings was woefully underrated. That whole cast was fantastic.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2021 22:08
|
|