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Zaphod42 posted:We're talking about BvS here. JL I'm absolutely going to give a chance seeing the other cut. Or did BvS also get meddled with heavily? ...are you not aware theres a 3+ hour rated R directors cut of BvS called the Ultimate Edition?
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Mar 16, 2021 01:40
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AccountSupervisor posted:...are you not aware theres a 3+ hour rated R directors cut of BvS called the Ultimate Edition? Nope. Outside of the snyder-bros nobody talks about BvS anymore so I had no idea, haven't seen it advertised. I guess that figures though. Ugh, I guess I gotta go watch it at some point now just so I can know for sure. This poo poo is a mess.
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Mar 16, 2021 01:44
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Zaphod42 posted:Or did BvS also get meddled with heavily? Yes. They cut the runtime of it pretty close to release.
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Mar 16, 2021 01:44
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Snyder bros
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Mar 16, 2021 01:48
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Super Snyder Bros coming soon to the Nintendo Switch.
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Mar 16, 2021 01:49
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Horizon Burning posted:what is that track at about 6:50? i don't recognize it from any of the osts - is it a custom remix, or am i misremembering? i really love the piano in it. it's most obvious when he throws zod into space. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2S5W0ZGfYek
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Mar 16, 2021 01:49
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Imagine if the ultimate edition did get released as the theatrical edition. All the baby rage about, Jimmy Olsen getting one in the head Would've been way more louder. Even though that character has been useless in every incarnation on film.
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Mar 16, 2021 01:50
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Zaphod42 posted:We're talking about BvS here. JL I'm absolutely going to give a chance seeing the other cut. Or did BvS also get meddled with heavily? Keaton is playing Keaton movie Batman. They are using Flashpoint to open up the multiverse instead of making it just time travel. They want to use Keaton Batman as a DCEU Nick Fury type.
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Mar 16, 2021 01:53
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oh poo poo
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Zaphod42 posted:Why does that matter? Its a false dichotomy and a complicated subject. (If you have the death penalty sex traffickers should probably be the first to qualify) Lets not stray from the point; you were explaining how its so great that the film is still confusing to people. So are you saying that no filmmaker could ever tackle that subject and not have an audience come away saying "That was confusing" ? No, you're changing the terms of the discussion to what constitutes 'greatness'. We're purely talking about what constitutes challenging art, and you're still evading the question by resigning to a "should probably". Superman and Batman are both resolute on their respective perspectives, so what's yours? KVeezy3 fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Mar 16, 2021 |
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Mar 16, 2021 01:55
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Zaphod42 posted:Nope. Outside of the snyder-bros nobody talks about BvS anymore so I had no idea, haven't seen it advertised. I guess that figures though. I mean Id argue youre pretty clearly in the dark with a lot of the conversation surrounding BvS so I wouldn't exactly say youre a good judge for who talks about it and who doesnt. Not that it really matters but its hardly some under the radar film. Half of the discourse around Snyder and DC has been 5 years of talking heads on youtube and twitter being zealots about the near religious sanctity of Superman and Batman and how Snyder dared make his heretical interpretations of them. Theres practically endless think pieces and vlogs praising and critiquing BvS out there. Like...look where were are right now with this week lol MoS and BvS Ultimate Edition are also two of the highest selling blurays of all time btw. MoS is in the top 25. These are popular and well liked movies whether you believe it or not. AccountSupervisor fucked around with this message at 02:01 on Mar 16, 2021 |
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Mar 16, 2021 01:57
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Miching Mallecho posted:Imagine if the ultimate edition did get released as the theatrical edition. All the baby rage about, In the Supergirl movie he's dating a high schooler
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Mar 16, 2021 01:58
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Spacebump posted:Keaton is playing Keaton movie Batman. They are using Flashpoint to open up the multiverse instead of making it just time travel. They want to use Keaton Batman as a DCEU Nick Fury type. Hmmm, I mean that works for Flashpoint but what about past that? Have they really considered the ramifications? I guess they're probably rushing towards a crisis on infinite earths esque plot. Which won't work if they don't build it up slow. AccountSupervisor posted:I mean Id argue youre pretty clearly in the dark with a lot of the conversation surrounding BvS so I wouldn't exactly say your a good judge for who talks about it and who doesnt. Not that it really matters but its hardly some under the radar film I believe it, sorry I just haven't heard about it anywhere, even though I read a lot of movie sites. I didn't mean it as implying a conspiracy or anything, y'all are way too serious about this. I was just explaining why I didn't know about it, you're taking it the wrong way.
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Mar 16, 2021 02:02
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roffels posted:Yes. They cut the runtime of it pretty close to release. For a certain definition of "close to release". The additional VFX work for the Ultimate Edition was done at the end of 2015, a few months after the rest of the movie had finished, so it was more a case of Snyder delivering the studio edit and then building it back up to his preferred version of the movie afterwards.
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Mar 16, 2021 02:06
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I believe he was discussing Man of Steel, as in Man of Steel was being compared to the Nolan trilogy as well as Avengers. I do remember a lot of drive by shitposts when it came out (not here) saying that MoS's problem is that it's too realistic, which was what they'd also decided was the problem with Nolan's films, and so copy pasted it. I think it was more an example of people not liking something, but not being able to clearly enunciate why (see also almost every 'it's like a video game' complaint) 2house2fly posted:The Martha bit is probably where BvS stops challenging you because it's Batman suddenly realising "I shouldn't be fighting this guy". After that it's pretty much how you might expect a superhero movie climax to go- villain unleashes Ultimate Villain, big fight with Ultimate Villain, at the end Superman sacrifices himself in a big pyrotechnic display, sequel tease, the end. They even gave Superman his little kiss-curl at the end! It's also an example of the heroes fighting each other that makes it explicitly clear that one guy is absolutely in the wrong and has turned into a complete monster. there's a tendency, when the good guys fight each other, to make it clear that it's just a misunderstanding, or a moment of anger. It's a fan service fight (who would win? hero A or B?) and so it's a product of the moment, rather than the story. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, by the way. BvS is very explicitly showing Batman as someone who has turned into a complete loving psychopath willing to lay out a massive trap quite specifically to kill someone. It's not, for instance, Civil War's, or Fast and the Furious 4's angle, which is that one friend is simply overwhelmed by emotion in the moment. Batman has very specifically and premeditatively made the decision to kill superman. I'd argue that the specifics of the scene are pretty challenging. One of the heroes is unambiguously the villain and has been for a while. CelticPredator posted:I would say David Lynch makes challenging films and often people are confused Absolutely. In fact, part of making anything that might be the slightest bit challenging is risking that people are going to misunderstand it. In fact it's almost guaranteed. I mean, without even accounting for the Baron Biffords of the world (i miss that guy, weirdly) professional critics straight up missed the point of Starship Troopers, which ends with Doogie Hauser dressed as a loving psychic gestapo officer. Zaphod42 posted:I believe it, sorry I just haven't heard about it anywhere, even though I read a lot of movie sites. I didn't mean it as implying a conspiracy or anything, y'all are way too serious about this. I was just explaining why I didn't know about it, you're taking it the wrong way. You know, if one person takes what you say the wrong way, that's on them, if everybody takes what you say the wrong way...
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Mar 16, 2021 02:07
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Zaphod42 posted:I believe it, sorry I just haven't heard about it anywhere, even though I read a lot of movie sites. I didn't mean it as implying a conspiracy or anything, y'all are way too serious about this. I was just explaining why I didn't know about it, you're taking it the wrong way. Didnt take it that way. Its just a bit shocking to people whove been immersed in the half decade of exhausting discourse surrounding Snyder and his DC films to see someone like you(a clear comic/movies fan) be so in the dark to the 5 year whirlwind that has brought us here. For what its worth you have totally valid criticisms and Id be very curious to see if the Ultimate Edition of BvS solved any of your issues with the film.
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Mar 16, 2021 02:18
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Snowman_McK posted:It's also an example of the heroes fighting each other that makes it explicitly clear that one guy is absolutely in the wrong and has turned into a complete monster. there's a tendency, when the good guys fight each other, to make it clear that it's just a misunderstanding, or a moment of anger. It's a fan service fight (who would win? hero A or B?) and so it's a product of the moment, rather than the story. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, by the way. BvS is very explicitly showing Batman as someone who has turned into a complete loving psychopath willing to lay out a massive trap quite specifically to kill someone. It's not, for instance, Civil War's, or Fast and the Furious 4's angle, which is that one friend is simply overwhelmed by emotion in the moment. Batman has very specifically and premeditatively made the decision to kill superman. I'd argue that the specifics of the scene are pretty challenging. One of the heroes is unambiguously the villain and has been for a while. I don't know, I mean that concept as you've laid it out, certainly sounds good. I agree with your point there, most films its a "misunderstanding" which is moved past. But if you really want that to be hammered home that Batman was in the wrong, you need more recognition of it in the resolution of the story and the aftermath, which I felt was missing. But there's also an ultimate cut I haven't seen so hey maybe the extra footage there helps. I also feel like that conflict gets brushed away too fast in JL, although that could be Whedon's doing and could very well be better in ZSJL coming soon. WW and Flash need to be more angry or distrusting with batman, but everybody just kinda moves past it and gets together because they're the good guys. Then they rez supes and he's pissed, but they bring in Lois and, welp, lets all just move past that. Bruce should be downright ashamed of himself then. Or, if he's not, then he shouldn't be willing to rez superman still. You get a tiny glimpse of regret, again, hopefully more in ZSJL. I just feel like while they may have created a challenging concept, the real challenging part is processing what happened, and that basically doesn't happen in MOS or MVS or JL, hence leading to the audience feeling tonally confused. There is good art that's challenging that leaves audiences confused, but there's also bad art that leaves people confused because the message was muddled (or it was just bad writing like game of thrones) It can't just be that the plot beats are challenging, the characters need to grow and change from the challenges. Batman does change from hating superman to working with him, but I need to feel his fundamental beliefs have changed in order to make that work. Which, again, probably just needed way more screen time. Snowman_McK posted:Absolutely. In fact, part of making anything that might be the slightest bit challenging is risking that people are going to misunderstand it. In fact it's almost guaranteed. I mean, without even accounting for the Baron Biffords of the world (i miss that guy, weirdly) professional critics straight up missed the point of Starship Troopers, which ends with Doogie Hauser dressed as a loving psychic gestapo officer. Yeah I referenced Starship Troopers earlier (its the drat abs!) Snowman_McK posted:You know, if one person takes what you say the wrong way, that's on them, if everybody takes what you say the wrong way... I feel you, but you also have to agree this thread clearly reps a certain side and is a bit biased. Its very easy to read anything on the internet in a different tone if you already expect it. You gotta give people the benefit of the doubt to get anywhere. AccountSupervisor posted:Didnt take it that way. Its just a bit shocking to people whove been immersed in the half decade of exhausting discourse surrounding Snyder and his DC films to see someone like you(a clear comic/movies fan) be so in the dark to the 5 year whirlwind that has brought us here. You guys are making me feel like movies have become videogames now, everything is apparently a public beta test in the theaters and then the real patched game gets released months later and its actually what should have been released in the first place. Its wild because I really do follow a good amount of nerdy movie news, but haven't heard anybody making such a strong argument about the ultimate cut existing and being worth watching. I definitely knew about the Snyder cut and a lot about the Whedon changes, although I didn't know how much they'd gone back and added and thought this was going to be more of the previous workprint + some cg touchups. So I can only imagine your average person who just sees movies in the theater and doesn't post on internet forums knows even less than I do. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Mar 16, 2021 |
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Mar 16, 2021 02:19
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Zaphod42 posted:Nope. Outside of the snyder-bros nobody talks about BvS anymore so I had no idea, haven't seen it advertised. I guess that figures though. Basically multiple subplots were cut from the theatrical release, primarily Clark Kent going to Gotham for a sports story and ending up investigating this Batman guy, who seems to be a vigilante who beats up poor people and is more dangerous than ever lately. He finds out that Batman is branding people and that when those people go to jail they seem to end up dead; he asks a dead inmate's wife to help him expose Batman with journalism, but she refuses because the only language Batman understands is violence. That's why Superman gets up in Batman's face and tells him "stop doing this Batman thing, I'm asking you nicely" which just makes Batman more determined than ever to take him out. Another subplot, which people don't like so much in general, is that Lex Luthor is behind everything. In addition to sending Bruce sad notes about how badly Wally suffered because of him, Lex also has a fake witness lie about the incident in Africa at the start of the movie, saying she saw Superman killing people. He also pays to have the prison inmates with bat brands murdered, and sends pictures of it to Clark. Lois gets proof that the mercs who wiped out the warlord's compound in Africa worked for Lex, and the fake witness cracks and confesses to senator. In this version of the film the hearing at the Capitol isn't Superman answering for the things (people think) he's done, it's the senator about to nail Lex to the wall with this proof. Then Lex, uh, storms the Capitol 2house2fly fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Mar 16, 2021 |
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Mar 16, 2021 02:27
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Zaphod42 posted:But if you really want that to be hammered home that Batman was in the wrong Hammered in more than Batman building an elaborate murder trap and being stopped in the middle of stabbing a man he's rendered defenceless to death? Hammered in more than that? Hammered in more than Batman repenting at the grave of the man he failed and saying 'we failed him' Hammered in more than Batman's closest confidant telling him he is wrong repeatedly. It is not subtle. The film absolutely hammers it home. Zaphod42 posted:but I need to feel his fundamental beliefs have changed in order to make that work Zaphod42 posted:but you also have to agree this thread clearly reps a certain side and is a bit biased In this case, the side the thread is biased towards is 'reality' There's a large amount of easily obtainable information that you didn't know. You posted in ignorance, then got defensive and called everyone else creepy when you were wrong.
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Mar 16, 2021 02:31
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I honestly believe that bvs is one of the most discussed movies of the previous decade even coming into this one. At least it is in the circles I frequent online and irl friend group chats
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Mar 16, 2021 02:37
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Robot Style posted:For a certain definition of "close to release". The additional VFX work for the Ultimate Edition was done at the end of 2015, a few months after the rest of the movie had finished, so it was more a case of Snyder delivering the studio edit and then building it back up to his preferred version of the movie afterwards. I appreciate the correction and you sharing your experience on these films.
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Mar 16, 2021 02:40
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Been watching Man of Steel again and been posting a few thoughts in the discord. Here are my biting and incisive thoughts of the scenes as they happened:quote:You know, people argue that it should have been a younger actor playing Clark for the tornado scene but I think it's good. He's not remembering something, he's telling Lois a story. He's placing himself in it as he is and not going into vivid, violent detail of his dad being sucked up by a tornado. quote:That church scene is really good and I still laugh at how upset people are about it. quote:Lordy, the Smallsville fight is still amazing. Riveting commentary, I know. But this film is still really amazing and one day I'll effort post the things I didn't like about it. Which isn't a lot because I'm a basic person but things I'm not huge on are some of the dialogue and the smash-cut to a fishing boat from his ship land is still a really jarring transition. I'll probably have more comments and gripes. Jimbot fucked around with this message at 02:44 on Mar 16, 2021 |
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Mar 16, 2021 02:42
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Zaphod42 posted:I don't know, I mean that concept as you've laid it out, certainly sounds good. I agree with your point there, most films its a "misunderstanding" which is moved past. But if you really want that to be hammered home that Batman was in the wrong, you need more recognition of it in the resolution of the story and the aftermath, which I felt was missing. But there's also an ultimate cut I haven't seen so hey maybe the extra footage there helps. For what it's worth the Bats V Supes fight is pretty much unchanged; the cuts were made mainly to the less-actiony stuff before. I'd say there's plenty of recognition of it as it is though- the fight itself is presented pretty harshly(Superman's little curl comes out here as well, to emphasize that Batman is beating up the hero) and right afterwards he's practically begging to go save Superman's mother to make it up to him. Plus at Superman's funeral he says "I failed him in life, I won't fail him in death" and it's more or less the impetus for him to put the Justice League together. Some other little moments show his experience with Superman is transformative for him: when he decides to lure Doomsday to Gotham so he can use the kryptonite spear on him, he's making a conscious choice to risk the same destruction which traumatised him at the start of the movie- putting himself in Superman's shoes, more or less. Later, when he goes to threaten Lex, he ends up not branding him, because the fear that made him cruel has been exorcised. He also switches from saying "there are no good guys left" to "men are still good"- which interestingly gives him a similar arc to Rorschach in Watchmen, who starts out saying "I'll look down and whisper no" but in the end dies rather than tolerate mass murder
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Mar 16, 2021 02:45
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Timeless Appeal posted:I think there are a couple of issues with this post: No it doesn't? The follow up to that scene is Darkseid having to bust out a weapon to nullify Superman on the spot. At no point does Superman have to reckon with the fact that he just killed a bunch of people by punching Darkseid through multiple buildings.
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Mar 16, 2021 02:46
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Btw zaphod I saw you say you follow nerdy sites and that is honestly probably the reason why you haven’t heard much positive or in general knowledge of what’s been going on with this cut. It’s either out of spite because of the “toxic fans” or because they just don’t like Snyder cut but they never really took the whole thing serious ever. It was always talked about on many sites as a joke and as something that would never happen so why even pay attention to it.
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Mar 16, 2021 02:52
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I imagine it's difficult to report neutrally on Snyder Cut stuff because it's floating on an ocean of juicy insider gossip about how the death of Snyder's daughter was possibly exploited to push him off the film, and Ray Fisher's ongoing battle against WB and Joss Whedon, that a lot of outlets might not want to dip their toes into for fear of making waves
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Mar 16, 2021 02:55
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2house2fly posted:For what it's worth the Bats V Supes fight is pretty much unchanged; the cuts were made mainly to the less-actiony stuff before. I'd say there's plenty of recognition of it as it is though- the fight itself is presented pretty harshly(Superman's little curl comes out here as well, to emphasize that Batman is beating up the hero) and right afterwards he's practically begging to go save Superman's mother to make it up to him. Plus at Superman's funeral he says "I failed him in life, I won't fail him in death" and it's more or less the impetus for him to put the Justice League together. Well, that's sortof a misread of Rorschach. He wasn't redeemed. His whole thing is that his defining trait is unrelenting principle. Rorschach says "I'll look down and say no" because he sees the world as so much filth, not worth saving. But if he tolerated mass murder, he would himself be filth too. He doesn't die as a heroic sacrifice because he cares about people, but rather because he simply REFUSES to compromise on what he knows is right and wrong. He refuses to accept "the ends justify the means", to him sin is sin is sin, period, it cannot be tolerated. That isn't an arc, its a static character, but static characters can be really good parts of stories too. Maybe its just a limitation of the 2h movie format and its something that would digest better in a TV series. Or, like I was saying, maybe it just really needed to be multiple films (or 4 hours lol), but I just don't feel like that quick scene of the funeral sold it. I want to see Batman totally broken down. "I failed you" just seems too cheesy hollywood movie, rather than a real suffering, grieving person. If this isn't just the fun kids superhero and is trying to be challenging, lets dig into that more. The grief and regret. The REAL Goobusters posted:Btw zaphod I saw you say you follow nerdy sites and that is honestly probably the reason why you haven’t heard much positive or in general knowledge of what’s been going on with this cut. It’s either out of spite because of the “toxic fans” or because they just don’t like Snyder cut but they never really took the whole thing serious ever. It was always talked about on many sites as a joke and as something that would never happen so why even pay attention to it. Oh for sure. Its just like, where else would you hear about this? I haven't seen commercials about it on TV or the net, I haven't seen movie sites talking about it, so at that point word of mouth from friends is the only way to know. Blockbuster doesn't exist anymore! I guess the ultimate cut may be on HBO max or something?
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Mar 16, 2021 02:57
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Zaphod42 posted:I guess the ultimate cut may be on HBO max or something?
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Mar 16, 2021 02:58
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Rorschach in both the comic and the film shed their mask (what they have been calling their face) and as such removes the Rorschach identity and simply becomes Walter Kovacs again.  Both versions have him visibly upset by what he has just witnessed, and refuses to take part in the coverup.
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Mar 16, 2021 03:04
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Roth posted:Both versions have him visibly upset by what he has just witnessed, and refuses to take part in the coverup. Yeah that's what I said. But that's not a change from his beliefs at the start of the comic/movie. He sees everything in black/white, hence his mask. At the end, he refuses to allow for grey; he forces them to kill him because he still sees it as right and wrong; and to him, what they did is wrong, and cannot be the "right thing". If he took off his mask and said "sometimes I guess things are grey" and lived with them, then that would be a character arc. But he accepts death rather than change in any way. Taking his mask off is just him accepting he is a dead man, not showing that his beliefs have changed from what they were. E: For what its worth I actually approve of Snyder changing the ending to being Dr. Manhattan instead of the "space monster". That works better for the film. The comic had more time to set up the alien. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Mar 16, 2021 |
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Mar 16, 2021 03:08
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Zaphod42 posted:Yeah that's what I said. But that's not a change from his beliefs at the start of the comic/movie. He sees everything in black/white, hence his mask. At the end, he refuses to allow for grey; he forces them to kill him because he still sees it as right and wrong; and to him, what they did is wrong, and cannot be the "right thing". There are actually a bunch of hints throughout both versions that show that Rorschach is more talk than he lets on. He doesn't arrest Moloch for using illegal drugs to treat his cancer, takes pity on his landlord after she smears him as a rapist, and argues that using the atomic bombs on Japan was justified. The last one is, perhaps, the most relevant as it uses the same "Sacrifice this many lives to rescue more lives" logic that Veidt is arguing for with his own plans.
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Mar 16, 2021 03:12
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Roth posted:No it doesn't? The follow up to that scene is Darkseid having to bust out a weapon to nullify Superman on the spot. At no point does Superman have to reckon with the fact that he just killed a bunch of people by punching Darkseid through multiple buildings. Honestly, that episode the GIF is from is also just not that great and a bit of a mess. But Superman completely fails and Darkseid is defeated by Lex Luthor basically in a weird suicide-murder centered around their own mutual megalomania. Like yes, it's a cartoon that hand waves any potential deaths from the punch through the buildings, but painting it as a simplistic story where Superman is being super good and cool and only the bad guys hurt is complete disingenuous about the arc that occurs between those two characters and what actually happens in that scene. Timeless Appeal fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Mar 16, 2021 |
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Mar 16, 2021 03:14
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Jimbot posted:Been watching Man of Steel again and been posting a few thoughts in the discord. Here are my biting and incisive thoughts of the scenes as they happened: Rewatching it at this moment and the only superhero movie with more heart is Spider-verse.
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Mar 16, 2021 03:18
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Timeless Appeal posted:I mean I don't think the cartoon is implying Superman actually killed people, just more that he's being reckless and it's kind of scary. But in the context of how the show and Darkseid's relationship with Superman, Superman just can't beat Darkseid by brute force. Superman is wrong to think he's going to win by out-strongmanning the embodiment of fascism. The scene begins with a build up of the classic Superman theme, and heroic music as he explains that he's always held himself back and Darkseid is somebody he can really let loose on. I have a hard time buying it's being portrayed as scary.
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Mar 16, 2021 03:20
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Roth posted:There are actually a bunch of hints throughout both versions that show that Rorschach is more talk than he lets on. He doesn't arrest Moloch for using illegal drugs to treat his cancer, takes pity on his landlord after she smears him as a rapist, and argues that using the atomic bombs on Japan was justified. The last one is, perhaps, the most relevant as it uses the same "Sacrifice this many lives to rescue more lives" logic that Veidt is arguing for with his own plans. Oh yeah he's very hypocritical.
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Mar 16, 2021 03:25
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Roth posted:The scene begins with a build up of the classic Superman theme, and heroic music as he explains that he's always held himself back and Darkseid is somebody he can really let loose on. I have a hard time buying it's being portrayed as scary. Yeah, Superman beats actual Darkseid by force there, and his comeback is a mix of him combining with Braniac and the "pain matrix" that only popped up right then and there.
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Mar 16, 2021 03:25
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I also don't believe mass murder should be the moment that you go "Huh, I guess shades of grey really do exist"
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Mar 16, 2021 03:26
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Darko posted:Rewatching it at this moment and the only superhero movie with more heart is Spider-verse. Yeah, the feels-per-second in the first 45 minutes are super high. Films still freaking amazing. But I do have my gripes. The finale should have been cut down because it's drat exhausting. I would have switched Superman fighting Zod to the backdrop of the Kryptonian prison ship so it would have raised the stakes even higher and if they cut the fight down it would have allowed for a little more breathing room for after him killing Zod, getting his senses back then going off to defeat the world engine. Then we can skip the fight with the world engine because he's exhausted, mentally and physically, then we keep the good scene of him being powered by community and solidarity. It would have also flowed better into him busting up the drone because it's super jarring how it is. Also they should have cut that scene in the crater with him and Lois. That poo poo was not good.
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Mar 16, 2021 03:30
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Roth posted:The scene begins with a build up of the classic Superman theme, and heroic music as he explains that he's always held himself back and Darkseid is somebody he can really let loose on. I have a hard time buying it's being portrayed as scary.
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Mar 16, 2021 03:33
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Roth posted:I also don't believe mass murder should be the moment that you go "Huh, I guess shades of grey really do exist" No, and its not the point of that story nor what I was saying. Did you not get my point? Are you arguing that Rorschach did go through a character arc... but just never got a chance to show it? That's not really how characters work? Or are you saying that by dying he was deciding not to be hypocritical? That's not really supported either. Either way, the phrase "i'll look down and say, no" is the same attitude as the end. He isn't redeemed or changed. That's the point. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Mar 16, 2021 |
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Mar 16, 2021 03:36
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Zaphod42 posted:No, and its not the point of that story nor what I was saying. Did you not get my point? Just saying, because I think it would have been incredibly weird had this happened Zaphod42 posted:If he took off his mask and said "sometimes I guess things are grey" and lived with them, then that would be a character arc. But he accepts death rather than change in any way. Taking his mask off is just him accepting he is a dead man, not showing that his beliefs have changed from what they were.
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Mar 16, 2021 03:40
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