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Kyōkai Senki description posted:Set in the year 2061, with Japan under a state of occupation by multiple states. The world, including Japan, has been consolidated under the rule of four trade blocs. The entire archipelago now the frontline of conflict. The Japanese people live under a state of constant occupation and oppression, with humanoid war machines called AMAIM patrolling its streets. Hmmmm no, don't like this at all already.
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Mar 17, 2021 02:04
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Ehh they could pull it off, It's not like Geass got very Japan Apoligistic
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Mar 17, 2021 02:39
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I would assume that 'Japan asserts itself against the multiple rear end in a top hat empires squabbling over it' is more of a reference to the bakumatsu era than the post-WWII American occupation. That's a quite popular source of stories if you want to go for the safer, less historically fraught form of Japanese nationalism.
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Mar 17, 2021 02:45
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https://twitter.com/KaijuNewsOutlet/status/1372006125915213830?s=20
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Mar 17, 2021 03:29
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Why did they do that to my boy?
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Mar 17, 2021 03:30
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Gaius Marius posted:Why did they do that to my boy? That's merely the first version, the trailers have shown it's going to get upgraded over the course of the story
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Mar 17, 2021 03:59
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He's beautiful.
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Mar 17, 2021 04:10
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Tribladeofchaos posted:Hmmmm no, don't like this at all already. I don't see anything wrong here? Goons are so jumpy about this stuff lmao
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Mar 17, 2021 04:23
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oh no, anything but a brave and handsome perfect robot.
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Mar 17, 2021 05:27
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He looks like teddies persona, and that's gross
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Mar 17, 2021 05:38
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Gaius Marius posted:Why did they do that to my boy? Because his mother never really loved him.
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Mar 17, 2021 05:40
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I just read this whole thread in about two days so now it's 3 am and I'm wondering why you don't see more western properties digging into mecha for shows. They're well represented in video games and tabletop with Battletech and 40K titans but in film and television you're options are incredibly limited if you don't care for Transformers. Pacific Rim The Black is kind of a turn off for me because it looks like the Godzilla Planet of the Monsters anime movies and those sucked. Uprising was lame. I haven't watched GenLock because I fell off of Rooster Teeth content around the time they made their all animated season with Monty Oum where everyone had anime haircuts under their helmets and RWBY took over. Is it any good or does it fall into the usual pit of "anime inspired" western shows that haul out visual tropes and mannerisms with no understanding of how or why they are used? Other than lamenting the lack of visual representation for animated mech shows outside of Japan what are some decent "real robot" shows that are more recent and aren't Dougram, VOTOMS Gundam or FLAG? I'm a suckered for Kunio Okawara chonky bots so stuff he's worked on is a plus.
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Mar 17, 2021 08:03
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How real you want? Macross is good if you can tolerate some JPop and some dumb bullshit in the sequels, Geass is never really real and abandons the pretense early in season 2 but is a strong show. Big O has a heavy mech which isn't real but it feels good verisimilitudelly
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Mar 17, 2021 08:11
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I stuck with Geass through season 1 and then the first episode of season 2 was so bad I bounced off the show immediately because I realized that between the rocky finish to S1 and how the show got rejigged for an earlier time slot that it was going off the rails from what I initially liked. Big O was fun. Never watched Mazinger or many Super Robot shows to begin with. I'm looking for something a bit more grounded. Macross Plus was good fun last I watched it. I was hoping something a bit more recent had come out on the RR side of mecha.
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Mar 17, 2021 08:18
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I honestly couldn't tell you, I know a lot of people like the new gundams and the new macross isn't totally hated, but the Mecha genre as a whole is a lot smaller than it once was. I can tell you Captain Earth was bland as poo poo but that's about the last show I watched as it was airing
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Mar 17, 2021 08:22
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Arcsquad12 posted:I just read this whole thread in about two days so now it's 3 am and I'm wondering why you don't see more western properties digging into mecha for shows. They're well represented in video games and tabletop with Battletech and 40K titans but in film and television you're options are incredibly limited if you don't care for Transformers. I started writing a post about this as i've had similar conversations with a bunch of people but then realized i'd be writing like a 5000 word essay and I just don't have it in me tonight. a quick TL;DR is think about how much Mecha is part of modern Japanese cultural identity, from Tetsujin-28 to Gundam to Evangelion. "The West" doesn't have those cultural anchors to guarantee an audience the same way, instead look at how much of American media in the last 30-40 years is Star Wars/Trek derivative.
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Mar 17, 2021 08:24
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Arcsquad12 posted:I just read this whole thread in about two days so now it's 3 am and I'm wondering why you don't see more western properties digging into mecha for shows. They're well represented in video games and tabletop with Battletech and 40K titans but in film and television you're options are incredibly limited if you don't care for Transformers. Fafner in the Azure started in the mid oughts but is still running to this day and is very good IMO. The robots are very slender though, no chonk to be seen.
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Mar 17, 2021 08:44
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Eureka Seven straddles the line but might be of interest, It's not got a lot of action but the character work is pretty solid. The sequel and movie are apparently abysmal though I haven't watched so some discretion is advised.
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Mar 17, 2021 09:06
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Arcsquad12 posted:I haven't watched GenLock because I fell off of Rooster Teeth content around the time they made their all animated season with Monty Oum where everyone had anime haircuts under their helmets and RWBY took over. Is it any good or does it fall into the usual pit of "anime inspired" western shows that haul out visual tropes and mannerisms with no understanding of how or why they are used? It definitely doesn't fall into the "anime inspired" trap you describe, and I thought it was pretty good. I'd say give it a shot; it's not that big a time investment - 8 episodes running about 20-30 minutes each. I would say its biggest weakness is in the worldbuilding, or at least in communicating their worldbuilding to the audience. The show is set against the backdrop of a global conflict between two post-national blocs, one vaguely liberal democratic and one vaguely fascist, but while the individual characters are handled well, we get next to no sense of the particulars of the two blocs' ideologies.
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Mar 17, 2021 09:12
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Gaius Marius posted:I honestly couldn't tell you, I know a lot of people like the new gundams and the new macross isn't totally hated, but the Mecha genre as a whole is a lot smaller than it once was. I can tell you Captain Earth was bland as poo poo but that's about the last show I watched as it was airing We've got eight mech anime on TV this year alongside half a dozen movies, one of which has already made over 30 billion yen in its opening week. Reports of my demise, etc, etc. I know you've seen IBO, but I still feel like I should put it on record as one of the chunkier mech anime, with a lot of time spent on refueling, and energy weapons being sidelined for giant melee weapons. For non-Gundam recent stuff, there's Obsolete. It's pretty short, but it's also very grounded for the most part, with small mechs outfitted with modern equipment. CG's kind of stuttery, and the first episode is weak, but if you stick with it, might be what you're looking for. Further back, the fourth season of Full Metal Panic has more "real" action, with Sousuke having to use a Savage for most of his fights in the back half, Patlabor's a workplace comedy some of the time, but it's also got some of the most grounded mech fights in anime, and Mazinkaizer SKL is very much not real, but it has some fun fights. (Might as well toss in a "You tried Eva"? too. It's not exactly grounded, but Anno's got a love of detail porn that shows up despite the show's crazier aspects. Lots of shots to emphasize how this crazy poo poo happens, even if it's still crazy.)
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Mar 17, 2021 09:17
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Darth Walrus posted:I would assume that 'Japan asserts itself against the multiple rear end in a top hat empires squabbling over it' is more of a reference to the bakumatsu era than the post-WWII American occupation. That's a quite popular source of stories if you want to go for the safer, less historically fraught form of Japanese nationalism. There's something interesting with how the American occupation jsut entrenched all the assholes who sent Japan to war in the first place as a bulwark against Communism, but that's usually not the take right-wing nationalists have.
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Mar 17, 2021 14:35
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Arcsquad12 posted:Other than lamenting the lack of visual representation for animated mech shows outside of Japan what are some decent "real robot" shows that are more recent and aren't Dougram, VOTOMS Gundam or FLAG? I'm a suckered for Kunio Okawara chonky bots so stuff he's worked on is a plus. Xabungle! It's so real robot, after every fight they siphon gas out of the robots they beat to keep their own robots running.
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Mar 17, 2021 14:36
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Gripweed posted:Xabungle! It's so real robot, after every fight they siphon gas out of the robots they beat to keep their own robots running. I've watched some of Xabungle and liked it. Tomino knows how to make subtle character tics in animation and I really appreciate that. It does feel like the mecha stuff I like had its heyday in the 80s and 90s and it's been more of a trickle in the 21st century. Good shows certainly but not as much variety to choose from. Side note: has anyone ever watched the one dubbed episode of VOTOMS? I'm not even sure if it's legit or not, I just remember catching it once like a decade ago and I'm still not sure if it's real.
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Mar 17, 2021 15:28
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Gaius Marius posted:Big O has a heavy mech which isn't real but it feels good verisimilitudelly Agreed, and I think the major driver here is the examination of class conflict, corruption, corporate rule, racism, and xenophobia. It's easy to call Big O just "Batman with robots" but there's actually a lot going on in that world!
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Mar 17, 2021 15:48
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Arcsquad12 posted:I stuck with Geass through season 1 and then the first episode of season 2 was so bad I bounced off the show immediately because I realized that between the rocky finish to S1 and how the show got rejigged for an earlier time slot that it was going off the rails from what I initially liked. Obsolete is a recent rr anime in that vein. Haven't seen it so no idea if it's good
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Mar 17, 2021 17:07
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Since I'm still stuck on this topic I've tried to come up with a list of European and North American series that could be considered Mecha or at least adjacent. Some are technically still Japanese but their western association wins out. In no particular order: Straight up Mecha: Transformers is the obvious and most popular one by far. Pacific Rim Battletech/Mechwarrior/Mech Assault 1920+ with Scythe and Iron Harvest Sym Bionic Titan Megas XLR The Big Guy and Rusty the Boy Robot Voltron Robotech (because gently caress Harmony Gold) Total Annihilation and Supreme Commander Titanfall Robot Jocks GenLOCK Brigador Real Steel Mecha Adjacent: Star Wars walkers Warhammer 40K walkers and titans, or straight Mecha with the Tau suits. Warmahordes Warjacks Robocop ED209s Starship Troopers Roughnecks treats the Marauder suits more like mecha than power armour Starcraft Goliaths Halo Mantis units Gears of War 4 and 5 DB Constructors Killzone Mawlers District 9 Prawn battle suit Avatar bowie knife mechs. The big thing I've noticed is that most of these properties are games rather than television or films and that speaks to the greater differences in how certain types of media are financed between Japan and other countries. It must be hell to try and make a mecha series without proper backing because of the demands of the Hollywood blockbuster system demanding ludicrous returns to be considered successful. Because mecha is so reliant on visual design to stand out, the way the system works in North America makes the costs balloon out of control. They can get away with it in the gaming industry more often because that industry is a mess of corruption and sunk cost fallacy among AAA publishers and shareholders so money isn't as much of an issue. Still, like Hollywood, it only takes one flop to kill a franchise and in gaming it also consistently kills studios. Meanwhile in Japan if you have a dedicated enough fan base even something like Fafner can survive. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Mar 17, 2021 |
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Mar 17, 2021 17:13
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GorfZaplen posted:Obsolete is a recent rr anime in that vein. Haven't seen it so no idea if it's good Obsolete is good and more people should watch it, especially since it's free and on Youtube.
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Mar 17, 2021 17:22
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Pyronic posted:I started writing a post about this as i've had similar conversations with a bunch of people but then realized i'd be writing like a 5000 word essay and I just don't have it in me tonight. And a lot of that ties back to the post-WW2 occupation and subsequent idolization and anxiety of "advanced" western industry and culture. Kouji Kabuto is a cool teenage rebel who pilots a walking motorcycle with fists to defend the electric company from a mad zombie who wants to dig up and appropriate the weapons of a militarized past. From there, its a short hop and a skip to Gundam and all modern mecha descends from there. The US cultural relationship with military scifi is more rooted in the cold war and tends to take technological and ideological superiority for granted. There's generally a much lower focus of the logistics of things, and class stuff tends to be downplayed or disguised. Comics were also significantly more restrained, what with things like Comics Code Authority and just generally much less of a market for independent cartoonists. But yeah, to go further into depth would be a lengthy essay.
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Mar 17, 2021 17:36
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It's worth noting that while giant robots are just a small part of 40k overall, there are several novels specifically about them so they are just total mecha novels. One of them is set entirely in a giant robot, about a lady who works in the leg and has to fight when she finds out the robot is being corrupted from the inside by Chaos.
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Mar 17, 2021 17:48
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Titanicus slaps.
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Mar 17, 2021 17:53
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Someone once gave a presentation that touched on the spiritual traditions of East and West as one reason for the popularity of mecha in Japan and their relative rarity in the US. I'm oversimplifying to a dangerous degree here, but the thesis was that since in the Christian tradition god became a person and there are countless tales of punishment of people who tried to become as gods through their own efforts going back to Greece and Rome, Western super heroes tend to be people imbued with power. Conversely in Japan we see concepts like the kami, who most frequently take the form of elements of the land forces of nature, etc so it was much more in line with that spiritual tradition to have inanimate objects have super powers.
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Mar 17, 2021 17:54
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I am a little surprised that 'what if medieval knights were gigantic futuristic war machines' didn't catch on more in Western genre fiction, though. Outside 40K, obviously.
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Mar 17, 2021 17:59
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Arcsquad12 posted:Side note: has anyone ever watched the one dubbed episode of VOTOMS? I'm not even sure if it's legit or not, I just remember catching it once like a decade ago and I'm still not sure if it's real. It's real, it's just that it was a test dub they didn't pursue a full run off because they ran into technical issues and there was no way VOTOMS would make enough money to be worth it, so Central Park Media distributed it as a bonus to people who bought the entire series (and it was on one of the DVD sets). If you can, look up the dub ED, they did an original composition and it's incredible. XD The decision to cast Dan Green as Chirico... I enjoy Dan Green performances but he's absolutely miscast given his level of volume and ham in most of his roles relative to Chirico. That said, I'd love to hear him deliver some of Chirico's lines from the last arc when he's been appointed Wiseman's successor and is pretending to go along with it and yelling about how people should die for him, the new God! gourdcaptain fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Mar 17, 2021 |
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Mar 17, 2021 18:03
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I feel like he would have done alright for himself if they'd dubbed the whole thing.
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Mar 17, 2021 18:06
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Justin_Brett posted:I feel like he would have done alright for himself if they'd dubbed the whole thing. True. The first episode of VOTOMS doesn't exactly give him the most material to get a feel for how it turns out, and while the melodrama of Chirico's internal monologue would probably come out a bit differently, it could work fine as a different interpretation.
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Mar 17, 2021 18:09
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Darth Walrus posted:I am a little surprised that 'what if medieval knights were gigantic futuristic war machines' didn't catch on more in Western genre fiction, though. Outside 40K, obviously. Robot Jox was originally designed as "the Trojan war but the heroes are mechas." It's why the one robot is named Achilles (and why it has a tank mode for after it's ankle gets shot).
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Mar 17, 2021 18:34
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Gripweed posted:It's worth noting that while giant robots are just a small part of 40k overall, there are several novels specifically about them so they are just total mecha novels. One of them is set entirely in a giant robot, about a lady who works in the leg and has to fight when she finds out the robot is being corrupted from the inside by Chaos. To add to my earlier "Titanicus slaps" I think a lot of it has to be attributed to Dan Abnett's talent for describing a scene. As I said mecha are heavily reliant on the visual element which is hard to get in a western context due to the cost involved. Abnett can't write an ending but goddamn can he paint a picture with words.
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Mar 17, 2021 18:59
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Arcsquad12 posted:To add to my earlier "Titanicus slaps" I think a lot of it has to be attributed to Dan Abnett's talent for describing a scene. As I said mecha are heavily reliant on the visual element which is hard to get in a western context due to the cost involved. Abnett can't write an ending but goddamn can he paint a picture with words. Abnett's got amazing literary craft. It's kind of surprising in someone who spent so much time in the comic industry, where that skill can't be put on display for the reader, but like Dickens or Gibson, he has a knack for making the words themselves interesting even when nothing is happening. As for western mech stuff, I feel like I should bring up Exosquad, even if I'm only reporting secondhand. It was basically made to be a Gundam show for American audiences, complete with serialized storytelling, dramatic deaths, and moral ambiguity. (And, of course, WWII references. WWII references everywhere.) They even had a minor villain who's a clear Char reference, which shows much more dedication to the premise for an American show in the early 90s than it would be today. It's also got a lot of the traits that American geeks tend to favor due to the whole "American writers" thing, with adult protagonists, smaller mechs, and less focus on 70s style new age philosophy. Might be interesting enough to check out.
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Mar 18, 2021 00:04
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Does anyone else have anything to say about gen:LOCK? Or am I the only one here who's seen it?
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Mar 18, 2021 00:41
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I can vouch that Exosquad is actually really good. It's still got some shoddy animation sometimes due to being a syndicated TV cartoon from the 90s, but it's got a coherent long term plot and addresses some shockingly mature themes given the relative crackdown on the content considered appropriate kids' TV that occurred in the 90s and early aughts - characters die, politics happen, sometimes the bad guys win, and sometimes the endings aren't necessarily happy in the short term.
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Mar 18, 2021 00:52
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