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Shageletic posted:It's pretty funny that it's Canon that we have a Cyborg who is a mobile Skynet and a Joker who yells about reacharounds to Batman
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Mar 20, 2021 14:59
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Shageletic posted:I was still wincing. She's not a good actress. Well yeah ok that is true but I liked her here
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Mar 20, 2021 15:00
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Shageletic posted:Honestly Whedon is laughably terrible but Adrienne Palicki is a great choice. Very charismatic. Adrian Palicki Wonder Woman was a David E Kelley joint
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Mar 20, 2021 15:01
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John Wick of Dogs posted:Adrian Palicki Wonder Woman was a David E Kelley joint Single female superhero dramedy
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Mar 20, 2021 15:09
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Augus posted:I think the streaming format was perfect for this kind of film (even though it would’ve looked great on a big screen) with the chapter divisions providing natural points to pause the movie, grab a snack, take a piss, whatever. It felt more like watching a well-paced mini-series rather than an overly long movie. In fan-editing circles, they have what they call “Extended Editions” - where they add all of a movie’s deleted scenes back in to achieve a purely maximized runtime. That’s basically what we got here - except that it’s the director himself doing it, and that it flows like butter. I kind of see Justice League as the Way-Too-Long cut of Watchmen, where they included an entire animated cartoon about pirates and Snyder was like “yeah that one’s strictly for the fans”. What I’d ultimately like to see is the 214 version.
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Mar 20, 2021 15:10
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Hopefully on the Blu-ray! Not sure you can shift the Superman yell from the beginning because you lose the end-to-beginning blend of the movies which indicates the three of them are forming a unity which will destroy the DCEU altogether. The apocalypse scene is somewhat important because it shifts the Knightmare from being a one-off vision to a continuous series of echos. Bruce does have a power after all!
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Mar 20, 2021 15:30
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I did not enjoy this movie. I generally don't like Snyder's films. I think he cuts a very good trailer, but I think he generally struggles telling a coherent story. On top of that, his DC interpretations are just completely joyless for me. This film, because he was apparently left to his own devices and didn't have anyone telling him no, really brought out the worst of his flaws. There's no flow at all in this, and the scenes aren't coherent. Like one thing doesn't lead into the next very well for me. I think there are broadly three main reasons for this. 1. There's an entire different movie and arc within this film, and that's cyborg's story. I found that far more compelling than the ACTUAL story, which was just the typical "bad guy wants thing, team assembles to stop bad guy, superman saves the day." That of course was Whedon's film, essentially, which was terrible but that doesn't mean he wasn't right about the structure. 2. There is just so much in that drat movie that doesn't need to be there or needs to be drastically cut down - Flash's origin scene - doesn't add a thing. Just establishes him as comedic relief and I thought it was annoying, though that is obviously personal preference. Also why was it so much brighter? Does central city have more light or something? We already know all we need to know about him - he runs fast, his dad got screwed and he's dedicating his life to getting him out. And even that is superfluous because we have a better dad story in this film, and that's cyborg's. And they're even similar! Cyborg blames his dad for his mom's death. Barry Allen's dad was blamed for his mother's death. Who wrote this? And even with this extra scene, we still don't know A.) where this poor kid got his suit made of the same material as the space shuttle or B.) what im assuming is his anti crime layer, unless that was just his sick fortnite setup. (hey snyder, maybe wayne learned about him because allen robbed wayne aeronautical for the materials and that's how he found him. just a thought. DMs open) Also now that I'm writing this why are there so many dad problems in this movie? Cyborg? Dad. Flash? Dad. Aquaman? Has some daddy issues. Superman? HAS TWO DADS! THEYRE BOTH GHOSTS AND THEY STILL loving TALK TO HIM - The amazon poo poo is terrible. Just doesn't look good at all and dragged out. - The flashback to the battle didn't need to be there. Didn't add anything and gave us more of the dreaded Gal Gadot line readings. Also it just raised way more questions than it answered. He wanted to put darkseid into the movie early so he could have him ALMOST appear at the end. And again, whedon was right to get rid of that if it was in the original. Doesn't impact anything. And the new resolution is contingent upon us just kinda accepting that Barry Allen, someone we don't know anything about, can travel through time. Very reminiscent of Days of Future Past when Kitty Pride's powers was just /gestures broadly And yes I know he appeared in BvS but that was stupid and out of place too. Like give me an example of him doing this before he literally saves the world with it. I did like someone talking with Steppenwolf so we know, you know, a little about him at all. - Cut every scene with Gal Gadot that you can. She's just a black hole of energy - The epilogue All these scenes were either misplaced, didn't fit the theme of the movie, were loving jarring, and just further broke up the flow of things. 3. The slow motion shots and overlong establishing shots/ending shots. I know it's Snyder and he loves his slow motion, but my god someone needed to reign him in on this. And the establishing shots just went on. Every new scene needed some overlong establishing shot. This is bad film making, period. - Lois Lane goes to Superman's memorial. I do not need to see her getting a coffee for two minutes, complete with the foam being poured into the cup. Do I need to build the world of this artisan coffee shop near the superman memorial? Just loving go to the memorial. And why this cop? Sure would be a good excuse to have Martha and her catch up, and let us know where Lois is in her life and how things are going. Oh wait they did that and it was actually an alien in disguise. Wouldn't want to let the two best actors in the film actually have a scene that mattered. - The cast of midsommer singing for two minutes after Aquaman swam away - All the shots of Bruce Wayne getting on an airplane. Felt like there were four shots there of him just walking up stairs. Just get on the plane! i can fill it in! - Just shoot the loving arrow. I do not need to know the entire Amazonian ritual of setting the Acropolis on fire. These are small things to be sure, but they add up. Just tighten it up a little for me. And the slow mo. Not only did it drag the movie out, but it diminished the importance of it when it would have mattered and really been impactful. 2 of the heroes in this movie exist almost exclusively in slow motion. We don't need to see Jason Mamoa taking off his shirt in slow motion multiple times. This isn't a movie so much as it's a series of loosely tied together vignettes, like Sucker Punch I guess. The actual meat of the story occurs almost exclusively in the 2nd half, and by that time I've completely checked out. This movie needed to be about Batman, Superman, and Lois Lane getting their poo poo together. That right there is a massively more interesting story than whatever the gently caress I just watched. Why not have the team bring back Superman earlier? Maybe they don't know why Steppenwolf is there and they assemble to fight him, get their rear end kicked, realize they HAVE to have Superman to fight him, and get the cube to bring him back to life. Maybe Steppenwolf knew where the first two were and was waiting for the third to be revealed. Then you can have Aquaman and WW going back to their homes and seeing them get destroyed, while Batman and Lois Lane go to convince Superman he has to rejoin them. That way you'd have your best actors (Lane, Affleck, Cavill, and Adams) doing the emotional lifting while the acting dead weight are just doing punch fights. Then they can get together and fight in Russia, with Superman showing up at the very end to save the day! And I loved how even in his Magnum Opus or whatever he still threw in blatant references to two completely unrelated franchises. Zeus was pretty clearly a reference to Prince Vultan from Flash Gordon. Sure, okay, whatever. all I could think of during that scene was why the humans got one of the boxes and not like, say, loving Artemis. Then Steve the Human and his drinking buddies just randomly buried it in a shallow hole in the ground. Batman's drop ship was from Aliens, complete with a little land rover that came out. I was half expecting to hear "In the pipe, 5 by 5." I'd be interested to see what Snyder's cut would look like with a professional editor and someone with some control over him. I can see what Whedon was TRYING to do. It completely failed, obviously, but I can see how he tried to craft something out of that. There was an interview with Whedon I read once that was his rules of scriptwriting. The one rule I remember was to get rid of your favorite scene. Snyder seems to take this in the opposite direction, where not only is he not getting rid of it, but he has ten, and he doesn't care how it fits into the greater scope of the story. FizFashizzle fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Mar 20, 2021 |
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Mar 20, 2021 15:30
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FizFashizzle posted:There was an interview with Whedon I read once that was his rules of scriptwriting. The one rule I remember was to get rid of your favorite scene. Snyder seems to take this in the opposite direction, where not only is he not getting rid of it, but he has ten, and he doesn't care how it fits into the greater scope of the story. Sure let's take advice from Joss Whedon. "Get rid of your favorite scene because that makes sense in every case." lol just lol
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Mar 20, 2021 15:33
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I love when people correctly identify a recurring theme in a story and then get angry at its presence
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Mar 20, 2021 15:38
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I think if history has taught us anything, it's not to listen to Joss Wheadon.
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Mar 20, 2021 15:39
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:My big takeaway is that the film is just amazingly perverse. I kept waiting for something subversive to happen, but the movie is just straight-up Zack Snyder doing a dumbass-ludicrous Avengers movie. Brilliant!
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Mar 20, 2021 15:43
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“Cut your favorite scene” sounds like the exact type of folksy truism that bullshit artist Whedon would spout to sound like the Yoda of script writing. Amazing.
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Mar 20, 2021 15:43
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Joss Whedon's oeuvre makes a lot more sense now that I know his #1 rule for screenwriting is "cut the good scenes"
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Mar 20, 2021 15:44
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 But Whedon didn't cut his favorite scene though. Look at it and despair.
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Mar 20, 2021 15:44
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Steve Yun posted:This movie was terrible. I haven't seen the Whedon version but it's difficult to imagine it not being worse
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Mar 20, 2021 15:44
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Almost every scene in this movie is like 30 seconds too long. You could easily cut out a half hour+ chunk of this movie and lose absolutely nothing Also I don't need wailing any time an amazon appears on screen, I get it
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Mar 20, 2021 15:47
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Piell posted:Almost every scene in this movie is like 30 seconds too long. You could easily cut out a half hour+ chunk of this movie and lose absolutely nothing Wouldn't be nearly as epic, though.
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Mar 20, 2021 15:48
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The “dad issues” thing is a theme of the movie, the characters are all being shackled by their past in some way or another and the movie is about overcoming that and moving forward. I’m surprised to see people saying the movie had coherency problems though. Besides the stuff that’s just in there to tease future extended universe shenanigans and is deliberately obtuse for that purpose, the movie is pretty solidly plotted and every major development is set up and explained properly. Things that initially don’t make sense (why did Victor’s dad give a teenager world-changing powers?) are later given good explanations (oh it’s because he used the cube out of desperation) and things that made no sense or felt like pointless edginess in the Whedon cut turned out to have sensible explanations and meaningful character implications in the Snyder cut.
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Mar 20, 2021 15:48
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Fucker posted:Wouldn't be nearly as epic, though. It would be a better movie
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Mar 20, 2021 15:48
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Miching Mallecho posted:
Anti-life is here, on earth.
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Mar 20, 2021 15:49
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FizFashizzle posted:I did not enjoy this movie. I generally don't like Snyder's films. I think he cuts a very good trailer, but I think he generally struggles telling a coherent story. On top of that, his DC interpretations are just completely joyless for me. The joylessness is coming from inside the viewer! Also Whedon's version of the same drat movie was absolutely poo poo lol sean10mm fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Mar 20, 2021 |
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Mar 20, 2021 15:49
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Oh also I do want to say while I disagree with a ton of this I do appreciate the effort you put in and that you didn't stoop to mocking Snyder's upbringing or some tangential characteristic of his to try to get an easy dunk on him.
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Mar 20, 2021 15:52
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Idk about cutting your favorite scene, but I do think there's truth in having skepticism towards scenes you're too attached to. Like was mentioned about Lucas' rough draft:Robot Style posted:Lucas filmed the fourth draft of the script, and had been developing the characters and the world for years at that point, so there was probably a bunch of poo poo he just took for granted about the movie, while the editors came at it from the perspective of "what is a star war" and helped to put it together in a way that the audience would understand. There are things you might take for granted and paper over because you're too Into the scene, and you're mentally filling in the gaps. You don't really need Whedon to tell you this, though. And he can afford to cut scenes because all his scenes are incredibly unimpressive TV-tier shots.
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Mar 20, 2021 15:54
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If Whedon’s rule of filmmaking is “cut out your favorite scene” then why didn’t he cut the pratfall onto Wonder Woman’s cleavage
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Mar 20, 2021 15:54
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FizFashizzle posted:
My fav part is that they brought him back and he hosed off, and they had to plan for the pripyat fight as if he wasn't a factor anyway other than a slim backup. They completely lucked out. The plot definitely would have improved by having superman brought back earlier and probably by a villain and they had to put in effort to rehabilitate him and get him into the scheme (especially that splitting the motherbox was more important than punching Stephen Wolff) , but considering how insanely overpowered they made him in these movies he would have just gone to Russia and returned within the hour for tea. so I can kinda see why they went the direction they did but it was also of course very dumb but at least they won in the end!
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Mar 20, 2021 15:59
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Augus posted:The “dad issues” thing is a theme of the movie, the characters are all being shackled by their past in some way or another and the movie is about overcoming that and moving forward. It's not a theme because it's not addressed or really developed, with the exception of Cyborg who, again, needed to have his own movie. Barry Allen just gets a thirty second scene where billy crudup is glad he has a job. O..okay? Compare that to the very good moment of Cyborg regenerating the recorder, which was such a good, underplayed grounded moment that I have trouble believing Snyder wrote it. Obviously aquaman has some too but he's barely in this film, probably because they knew they had aquaman coming out. If you really want to say it's a theme of the film, maybe take away barry's establishing shot in the hot dog storm and give me a reason to care about his dad. If you want to do a movie about superheroes overcoming dad drama, make that movie. The way it comes across for me in this is lazy scriptwriting. Oh and one last thing about cyborg.... how, in a 4 hour movie, did they not explain how his dad got his body out of the hospital? was he hemisected from the waist down before or after he was transferred? Was he dead when his dad got him? We already have grave robbing in this film. Take away five minutes of superfluous slow motion and give me a scene where the son is brain dead and his dad wants him to die "at home," then it turns out he's transferring him to star labs.
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Mar 20, 2021 15:59
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Augus posted:If Whedon’s rule of filmmaking is “cut out your favorite scene” then why didn’t he cut the pratfall onto Wonder Woman’s cleavage He put it in back to back movies haha
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Mar 20, 2021 16:00
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John Wick of Dogs posted:Adrian Palicki Wonder Woman was a David E Kelley joint Written by Joss Whedon? Am I getting confused?
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Mar 20, 2021 16:02
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Miching Mallecho posted:
Someone find the Renaissance painting this is based on.
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Mar 20, 2021 16:03
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sean10mm posted:He put it in back to back movies haha Misogyny so nice he filmed it twice
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Mar 20, 2021 16:04
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It was whedon who famously really wanted to helm a wonder woman movie, right? Because it turns out all he wanted to do with her was guys falling on her boobs or confessing she's very gorgeous and hot, and then film her butt several times?
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Mar 20, 2021 16:04
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https://indiegroundfilms.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/wonder-woman-aug7-07-joss-whedon.pdf It's some thing.
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Mar 20, 2021 16:06
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The Saddest Rhino posted:It was whedon who famously really wanted to helm a wonder woman movie, right? Because it turns out all he wanted to do with her was guys falling on her boobs or confessing she's very gorgeous and hot, and then film her butt several times? Yeah and the pitch he did is some freakin' cursed poo poo.
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Mar 20, 2021 16:07
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also I needed way more resolution between batman and superman in this. this is coming on the heels of batman being one mumbled mom's name from murdering him. Again, take away 5 minutes of slow mo, give me a 1 on 1 between the two of them. As it stands all we got was a hearty pat on the back and "thanks for giving my mom her house back." That's a double whammy because Diane Lane's entire purpose in the movie was...to get evicted?
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Mar 20, 2021 16:07
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The Saddest Rhino posted:It was whedon who famously really wanted to helm a wonder woman movie, right? Because it turns out all he wanted to do with her was guys falling on her boobs or confessing she's very gorgeous and hot, and then film her butt several times? Unless I'm mistaken his script is available, and it's basically just Buffy but with more "I will murder you, whore" That kind of 90's dated approach, where mainstream feminism is having the bad guy say really lovely things, then the conventionally attractive lady does bicycle kicks.
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Mar 20, 2021 16:08
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FizFashizzle posted:This movie needed to be about Batman, Superman, and Lois Lane getting their poo poo together. That right there is a massively more interesting story than whatever the gently caress I just watched. there's a trope in Japan that started with old samurai movies, and you can also see it with Goku in DBZ or One Punch Man for an extreme and recent example. when you have one character who's way more powerful than all the others, a way to keep the narrative interesting is to have that character indisposed, and focus on the struggle of the other characters to maintain things (including their lives) until the powerful one gets there. the longer it takes and the more desperate things get, the more satisfying the arrival there are a few reasons Snyder's way worked better than what you're proposing. Superman would come off as an rear end in a top hat if he was around longer but couldn't get his rear end in gear to help. plus, you'd lose the aspect of the final fight happening directly because Superman's back -- even if you came up with some explanation, you wouldn't feel the cause and effect and ramping tension the same way if it took longer. not to mention this is an ensemble movie and the abilities and personalities of the heroes play off each other and I don't want less of that, even if I dislike Gal Gadot like any sane person does FizFashizzle posted:And the slow mo. Not only did it drag the movie out, but it diminished the importance of it when it would have mattered and really been impactful. 2 of the heroes in this movie exist almost exclusively in slow motion. We don't need to see Jason Mamoa taking off his shirt in slow motion multiple times. you straight or something?
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Mar 20, 2021 16:10
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I'll take Batman and Superman having a little nod to each other after Steppenwolf and the "congratulations" scene over this
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Mar 20, 2021 16:13
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Miching Mallecho posted:I'll take Batman and Superman having a little nod to each other after Steppenwolf and the "congratulations" scene over this lol it's exactly how I imagined and feared
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Mar 20, 2021 16:14
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Also please don't confuse me with defending Joss Whedon, either with his JL or anything else. Its Chocolate posted:there's a trope in Japan that started with old samurai movies, and you can also see it with Goku in DBZ or One Punch Man for an extreme and recent example. when you have one character who's way more powerful than all the others, a way to keep the narrative interesting is to have that character indisposed, and focus on the struggle of the other characters to maintain things (including their lives) until the powerful one gets there. the longer it takes and the more desperate things get, the more satisfying the arrival There's this trope that started in ancient Greece, it's called conflict. It makes perfect sense that a Superman that died defending this planet after nearly being killed by Batman might have some poo poo to work out. Or, if you want to make him indisposed, just have him forget who he is. Maybe Lois takes him away to rebuild his memory. Hell, in the comics he was running around with a gun because he didn't even have his powers back. Either way it gives lois and martha something to do. And who cares how he comes across? Snyder has poo poo all over any previous conception of Superman. It's not like Snyder doesn't have experience with a super powerful character who chooses NOT to help. quote:you straight or something? we all have our crosses to bare.
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Mar 20, 2021 16:17
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FizFashizzle posted:There was an interview with Whedon I read once that was his rules of scriptwriting. The one rule I remember was to get rid of your favorite scene. Snyder seems to take this in the opposite direction, where not only is he not getting rid of it, but he has ten, and he doesn't care how it fits into the greater scope of the story. is this a bit?
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Mar 20, 2021 16:17
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