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1/23/22 Edit:Zyxyz posted:sorry for the thread necro again, but big news: Gnosia is finally available on Steam!  Gnosia initially released in Japan in mid-2019 for the Playstation Vita, but as of March 4, 2021 an English release exists for the Nintendo Switch. The MSRP is $25 US. Gnosia is basically a single-player version of the social deduction game known as "Werewolf" or "Mafia". There's at least one "Gnosia" on board your ship, and their goal is to eliminate the humans until their numbers equal or outnumber them, while the humans' goal is to try to eliminate the Gnosia. The trick is finding out who the Gnosia are, or in the Gnosia's case avoid casting suspicion on oneself.  The core gameplay consists of the "Debate" phase, where you and the other crew members debate on who to send to cold sleep. This is the best way to take on the Gnosia, but you're also working with limited information, so it's basically you and everyone else accusing each other of being Gnosia until everyone votes on who to put in cold sleep. If you send all the Gnosia to cold sleep, humans win! Else, the night phase happens and the Gnosia choose to eliminate a character. There are various roles in place to add interesting wrinkles to the gameplay. For instance, the Engineer can check the status of a character to determine if they're human or Gnosia, but revealing themselves means the Gnosia will take them out the next night...unless a Gnosia claims or counter-claims to be the Engineer, creating chaos and casting doubt on everything. In addition, as you play more and more your character can gain stats that helps keep suspicion off them and guide other characters toward your preferences. Each character has their own personality and play style, and playing enough to learn what makes them tick can be to your advantage in finding out whether they're human, Gnosia, or have some extra agenda.  The game proceeds in a series of loops, starting with some preset games to slowly teach you the mechanics, but eventually you'll be able to create your own criteria and make random games. The main goal is to uncover data about your fellow shipmates, which may require manipulating events in a way that goes against the usual Werewolf playstyle. The game is nice enough to have an option to set criteria to trigger these events more often, though it can still take some attempts to get them to trigger. Overall it's a solid take on the Werewolf formula, and the presentation and the characters themselves stand out enough to make the experience all the more engaging. It's been a hit in the Switch thread, thus its own thread. Mega64 fucked around with this message at 13:25 on Jan 23, 2022 |
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Mar 20, 2021 17:22
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Spoiler Policy: Err on the side of caution. Try to spoil the early-game stuff for new players, as well as ways to reveal character data. The random games probably don't matter as much, but use your best judgment. To do if I ever stop being lazy: Do brief character bios, stat write-ups, and descriptions of each role, though the game's text is already pretty solid on that last front.
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Mar 20, 2021 17:23
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Yay! Glad it finally got a thread. Ready to hear tales of my pal Shigemuchi being a terrible liar. I'm about 45 loops in and unlocking character data at a decent clip. Loop agnostic relationship musing. Really interested in where the Kukrushka/Remnan scene where she goes psycho develops Chaotic Flame fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Mar 20, 2021 |
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Mar 20, 2021 17:38
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Chaotic Flame posted:Yay! Glad it finally got a thread. Ready to hear tales of my pal Shigemuchi being a terrible liar. Haha, yeah, i think that was the first event i got that you don't consciously trigger by chatting someone up, pretty early on for me, and i was just like "Wtf, that's outta left field!?! What's that about?" It was also on what was supposed to be a hard-fought victory round, so that sorta pissed me off.  The game is, on the whole, very good about making events reasonable and explainable, and keeping them cohesive. So the good news is, even that event makes sense later on. The bad news is, it only clicked for me at the very very end of the game, after the credits had already rolled. Most of the weirdness surrounds Jonas, i feel. There's some weird energy coming off of him, and i don't mean his grandiose speech pattern or even his weirdo oil sheik master servant thing he has going on with Stella out of nowhere sometimes. But it feels like his hosed up situation is mostly played for laughs, and his fate at the end of the game elicited another "WTF?" from me. It's weird but not in a good way. He's also involved with one of the events that still don't make sense to me even after the post-credits, but maybe someone else who finished the game can elucidate for me: Why did he uncork the murder slime? Why? All other actions or motivations in the game make sense at some point, but even if you ask him, you don't get any sort of answer as to why he did that. The game's good at not letting characters' actions feel as if they were just done to move the plot, but this one sticks out.
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Mar 20, 2021 18:54
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HenryEx posted:Why did he uncork the murder slime? Why? All other actions or motivations in the game make sense at some point, but even if you ask him, you don't get any sort of answer as to why he did that. The game's good at not letting characters' actions feel as if they were just done to move the plot, but this one sticks out. I think that one's simpler than you'd think: he's a creep who enjoys loving around with bodies in cryo-sleep because he has some some sort of fetish for quiet people (see: a bunch of scenes but particularly his comments as Doctor about how the sleeping person's body was messed up for completely unrelated reasons.) Definitely enjoyed the game a lot; I think it does slow down a little bit at the end trying to get the last special events (not sure I would have gotten the one from covering Remnan without looking it up), but can't really hold it against them after having new stuff every 2-3 loops for the first ~120 go arounds. Still missing a few skills, so maybe I'll go back for those. Chaotic Flame posted:Yay! Glad it finally got a thread. Ready to hear tales of my pal Shigemuchi being a terrible liar. Think my current record on that is checking the post-game logs and seeing eight straight instances of (Noticed Shigemuchi was lying.) That one help tip about "If you're playing as Gnosia and your allies are Shigemuchi and Comet, maybe just give up and restart." is not joking.
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Mar 20, 2021 19:17
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Nick Buntline posted:Think my current record on that is checking the post-game logs and seeing eight straight instances of (Noticed Shigemuchi was lying.) That one help tip about "If you're playing as Gnosia and your allies are Shigemuchi and Comet, maybe just give up and restart." is not joking. Well, Comet actually just straight up tells you "There's no way i'm gonna make it through this, just throw me under the bus and try to save yourself" if you end up with her on the Gnosia team
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Mar 20, 2021 19:26
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Nick Buntline posted:Think my current record on that is checking the post-game logs and seeing eight straight instances of (Noticed Shigemuchi was lying.) That one help tip about "If you're playing as Gnosia and your allies are Shigemuchi and Comet, maybe just give up and restart." is not joking. There’s a unique ending scene if you and Comet can win as Gnosia without her getting frozen and it took me almost double digit tries to get that one right. It’s worth it though, it’s surprisingly cute
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Mar 20, 2021 19:56
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Game owns. I don’t follow the Switch thread because reasons, but the last time I checked was when the game was announced and it was basically “What the gently caress is this Amongst Us rip off? Wait, it’s SINGLE PLAYER? lol”, so good to know that it’s getting good word of mouth there. Honestly I was not sure how a thread for the game would do because of its nature, but gently caress it, let it rock.
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Mar 20, 2021 20:10
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I beat it in a little over 20 hours and enjoyed it basically the whole time. Near the end was the only time when it felt like the loops were dragging, but I was still entertained enough to finish it. I didn't expect to have so many feelings about the characters with the level of interaction in the loops, but I grew to hate Yuriko for how impossible she was to deal with whenever we were on opposing sides. I just couldn't bring myself to dislike Shigemichi in spite of his complete incompetence, on the other hand. Still extremely pumped about a game that lets you be nonbinary as well as having multiple nonbinary characters including the most prominent NPC (and ambiguous romantic interest) and the updated translation makes it even better 
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Mar 21, 2021 05:47
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My two least favorite characters (in terms of their behavior during games) are Chipie and Kukrushka. Initially it was just Chipie (because he hates me in like 90% of games for some reason - I would say that he starts off games as the character disliking me around 50% of the time), but this became less of an issue once my Charm got higher and it became easier to avoid getting voted on. Kukrushka is probably the most difficult player to deal with when she's Gnosia (or some other hostile class), at least for me. It's really hard to get other people to vote for her edit: Btw has anyone else gotten the scene where (spoilers mostly unrelated to story) Setsu and the protagonist and Shigemichi hold hands and watch a zombie movie"? That was a cute scene. Scrap Dragon posted:There’s a unique ending scene if you and Comet can win as Gnosia without her getting frozen and it took me almost double digit tries to get that one right. It’s worth it though, it’s surprisingly cute I like how different characters behave in different ways as Gnosia. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Mar 21, 2021 |
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Mar 21, 2021 06:00
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HenryEx posted:Well, Comet actually just straight up tells you "There's no way i'm gonna make it through this, just throw me under the bus and try to save yourself" if you end up with her on the Gnosia team Yeah just like in real mafia, throwing one of your teammates under the bus works very well to deflect suspicion. I've won several games as a solo Gnosia after totally serving up my teammate when it became pretty obvious they were screwed anyway. I think I'm like 160 loops in and almost done. There's really only one bit of crew data I don't have yet, but I haven't figured out what is going to trigger it yet. But I'm also in no particular rush, I'm still enjoying the core mechanics, and I now have all of the commands (or maybe 29/30?) and high enough stats where I can win most games. Early game tip: Intuition 20 and the Say You're Human (spoiling it, I guess, even though in my game the event for it popped up really early) is really powerful, especially to give you the lay of the land on Day 1 of any loop where you aren't Gnosia. Normally either I catch someone in a lie, or everyone else catches someone in a lie even if I didn't and it's pretty obvious -- when all of a sudden seven people are like "Hey, Shigi is looking pretty sketchy..." you know something just happened. Or if no one gets caught outright, usually the people who didn't speak up are worth looking at.
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Mar 21, 2021 07:47
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Conventional wisdom seems to be that you should either beeline to Intuition 20 or dump Intuition to 1 at the start and ignore it completely. Detecting lies is helpful, but it's not as important as being able to get people to listen when you talk (Charisma), or being able to actually play through a game without getting killed/frozen (Stealth and Charm).
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Mar 21, 2021 09:00
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Unlucky7 posted:Game owns. I don’t follow the Switch thread because reasons, but the last time I checked was when the game was announced and it was basically “What the gently caress is this Amongst Us rip off? Wait, it’s SINGLE PLAYER? lol”, so good to know that it’s getting good word of mouth there. It goes to show just how many people haven’t played a social deduction game before Among Us became super popular because I see the “Among Us but with no tasks and it’s single player” type reviews and just sigh Anybody have a good tip to dealing with Bugs and AC Followers? I feel like trying to get the conversation to flow towards people who I think are bugs/followers just gets me merced a lot of the time and I find it hard to even parse who it might be unless they make themselves super obvious by claiming a role or something The Shame Boy fucked around with this message at 09:09 on Mar 21, 2021 |
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Mar 21, 2021 09:01
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I'm normally not a fan of social deduction games, but turns out I enjoy them just fine if it's just dealing with AI players and have time to think about things. I'm about 15 loops in now and curious about where this story is headed. I like that the characters have consistent personalities, although Comet with her underboob hanging out makes it kinda hard to play this in front of other people
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Mar 21, 2021 10:15
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So this is a social deduction game with a meta progression and plot? That's a strange mix and very intriguing! Might have to check this out. I loved playing werewolves with friends - back when that was a possibility.
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Mar 21, 2021 11:11
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This game clicks hard after like loop 20. I wish there was a phone companion app or something so I can pore over notes whenever I want. The in game manual is really helpful too.
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Mar 21, 2021 12:51
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(I guess we're spoilering skills, even the early ones?) I like that the basic logic of 'that person is undeniably a human/enemy based on these obvious, uncontestable facts' is a skill gated behind logic 20.  It really adds something to how Raqio is the one calling Definite Human/Enemy 99% of the time.
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Mar 21, 2021 17:37
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Great avatar / post combo, too.
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Mar 21, 2021 18:02
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drat you, drat you for showing me a social deduction/visual novel game when I've put hundreds of hours in games like that! I lost my entire evening on this and I'm already lv 80 and 80~ loops in!  As a question, is it okay to openly talk about experiences with stat builds and general gameplay or is it better to spoiler all of that?
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Mar 21, 2021 21:39
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As long as you’re talking about stuff that happens within the werewolf gameplay segments and not unique story stuff, I don’t see any reason why you should spoiler tag it
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Mar 21, 2021 21:47
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Will the game keep nudging you towards events, or are you supposed to figure it out with the event search option alone? I'm at around loop 30 and it feels like there's way too many dead loops where nothing happens whether I win or lose.
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Mar 21, 2021 22:04
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Cool, so here's more of less my experience with the stats and abilities I've unlocked: Charisma: 20. Yeah, seems to be pretty important, specially for the Step Foward so you can inmediately start making easy guesses (from experience if only 1 person steps they're 100% safe, and if 3 step one is Bug/AC guaranteed so it's good for early guesses). Though no sure how effective it is in convincing others. Intuition: 20. Agreeing with the feeling you either invest heavily on this or dump it at 1: even at 20 I can count with my fingers how many people I caught in a lie and it's usually the lousy liars. Say I'm Human still has use though because the AI who are good at Intuition will dogpile those who did lie (and if someone interrumpts they will all vote for them it's hilarious) Logic: 20. Definitive Human/Enemy can definitively help, since the first makes the person trust you a lot and the second can make sure the others will dogpile the Gnosia I found as Engineer the moment they slip up. That said they're useless as a Gnosia, because your fellow Gnosia will happily point out it's not true and then everyone votes you out damnit. Charm: 15. Currently wondering if it's worth going to 25 for Regret, the AI that use them usually get a shitton of free defenses and my biggest problem so far is the AI hating me because I talk too much apparently. Performance: 30. Though to level it up for Seek Help for the reason mentioned above, but it turns out you have to choose someone to defend you and it can fail? Unless it can convince someone who would not defend you to do so I'm regretting going so far for it. Stealth: 10. Hilariously broken in terms of defending against Gnosia, the only times I've been attacked despite this is if I'm an open Engineer/Doctor claim who doesn't use it and opens themselves too much. Granted, I'm guessing it's important to make yourself less notable as Gnosia but I'm waiting to see if there are better skills, good thing you can respec in this game. The one thing I'm annoyed about it's the drat Shut Up mechanic, seems kinda random how much is too much (do skills even count?) and if the AI uses it welp everyone hates you have fun going to cold sleep. Not to mention it runs contrary to actual social deduction games where the most active people are the least likely to be scum. Is it related to a stat or do you need to use the wait option a bit more?
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Mar 21, 2021 22:29
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Shut up is basically just a way to keep you from spamming your abilities. If you're trying to control the conversation to the point that the other players can't speak, they'll get rid of you. If you limit yourself to 2 actions per day it will almost never come up.
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Mar 21, 2021 22:38
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Yeah, I've never been called out for talking too much and I generally don't initiate an action more than 1-2 times a day(they don't seem to care as much about following up on someone else's doubt/defense actions).
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Mar 21, 2021 22:41
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I'll admit my opinion is biased based on saltt, but it doesn't really feel like it stops abilities because from what I've seen it never activates on anything other than Doubt or Cover. Like, special abilities can be neutralized (Small Talk can be stopped by a serious character, I'm Human is unreliable, you can't still be sure who are the true claimers) but it means you can spam abilities and then just let others do the accusations for you since if you try it triggers the AI. (And if you do it on a tie you're involved in you lose, no ifs.) Edit: Oh, and on another note, I've noticed you can see one character who likes you and dislikes you on the menu: is that a representation of the actual values or is it a thing in every loop where someone trusts you and someone doesn't? GiantRockFromSpace fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Mar 21, 2021 |
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Mar 21, 2021 22:52
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GiantRockFromSpace posted:Edit: Oh, and on another note, I've noticed you can see one character who likes you and dislikes you on the menu: is that a representation of the actual values or is it a thing in every loop where someone trusts you and someone doesn't?
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Mar 21, 2021 22:57
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I've definitely gotten "Shut up" against my first action of the game (Doubt) aside from clerical stuff and a couple of dogpiles, so I think some of those count even if they count a lot less than spamming Doubt at everyone you hate. Or maybe Remnan was just grumpy that day I'm still trying to figure out the rules behind Definite Human/Enemy, it seems to rarely come up (mostly uncontested claims day 1 and their results after that) but there was one game where Raqio just sort of popped off out of nowhere and assigned everyone an alignment and the game just sort of ended right there, and I didn't catch what caused them to do it GiantRockFromSpace posted:Edit: Oh, and on another note, I've noticed you can see one character who likes you and dislikes you on the menu: is that a representation of the actual values or is it a thing in every loop where someone trusts you and someone doesn't? It just shows the person who likes you the most and dislikes you the most at any given time. If people die or you really get on someone's good/bad side it'll change.
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Mar 21, 2021 22:58
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Ryanbomber posted:I'm still trying to figure out the rules behind Definite Human/Enemy, it seems to rarely come up (mostly uncontested claims day 1 and their results after that) but there was one game where Raqio just sort of popped off out of nowhere and assigned everyone an alignment and the game just sort of ended right there, and I didn't catch what caused them to do it Yeah, Raquio seems to be able to pop out a Definitive X sometimes, that is if they don't get booted out because everyone hates them . My experience has been the same: when only 1 person claims (since they will always counter claim Gnosia if they are the actual one and Gnosia will not step after the real claim), when proof exists or sometimes when you catch someone in a lie and it tells you they are Gnosia. Definitive Human is still useful cause it makes the target really like you and Small Talk normally negates the risk of getting killed at night.
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Mar 21, 2021 23:19
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batteries! posted:Will the game keep nudging you towards events, or are you supposed to figure it out with the event search option alone? I'm at around loop 30 and it feels like there's way too many dead loops where nothing happens whether I win or lose. It's a good idea to use Event Search whenever possible; it tweaks things behind the scenes to make it more likely that people will be in role combinations that make it possible to see new events. There are a few events that are easier to see if you adjust the settings manually, though, if you already have an idea of the conditions needed for them. Ryanbomber posted:I'm still trying to figure out the rules behind Definite Human/Enemy, it seems to rarely come up (mostly uncontested claims day 1 and their results after that) but there was one game where Raqio just sort of popped off out of nowhere and assigned everyone an alignment and the game just sort of ended right there, and I didn't catch what caused them to do it The ingame docs give some examples of situations where someone can be confirmed Human or Enemy. For example, if there are two engineer claims on day 1 and one of them gets killed in a game without any non-Gnosia enemy roles, then the other was obviously a fake. Or if the Doctor has reported 3 people as Gnosia and there are only 3 Gnosia in the game, you know the Doctor is fake because the game's not over yet. (Some characters are dumb enough to do this.) To get into more complex situations, if there are 3 Gnosia, two Doctor claims, two Engineer claims, no non-Gnosia enemy roles, and the two Engineers each pick a different person as Gnosia, then everyone other than the Doctors, Engineers, and the two people the Engineers picked out is definitely human (because one of the doctors is Gnosia, one of the engineers is Gnosia, and the person the real engineer picked out is Gnosia). GiantRockFromSpace posted:The one thing I'm annoyed about it's the drat Shut Up mechanic, seems kinda random how much is too much (do skills even count?) and if the AI uses it welp everyone hates you have fun going to cold sleep. Not to mention it runs contrary to actual social deduction games where the most active people are the least likely to be scum. Is it related to a stat or do you need to use the wait option a bit more? Increasing your Stealth makes people pay less attention to your actions, which increases the threshold before people start telling you to shut up. Stealth does a surprisingly large number of things. Thuryl fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Mar 21, 2021 |
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Mar 21, 2021 23:24
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StarkRavingMad posted:Yeah just like in real mafia, throwing one of your teammates under the bus works very well to deflect suspicion. I've won several games as a solo Gnosia after totally serving up my teammate when it became pretty obvious they were screwed anyway. Yeah, it feels really good when you end up with a situation where you're the only Gnosia left with a few non-Gnosia, and one or two of those non-Gnosia consider you their strongest ally (sometimes to the extent of asking to work with you). Also, as you mention, getting one guaranteed "this person is Gnosia" generally makes it dramatically easier to identify the other Gnosia by seeing how people interact with them. (not sure why I'm spoiling this; I'm just making general comments about gameplay unrelated to the main story)
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Mar 21, 2021 23:33
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Yeah, looking at how characters interact with each other is especially helpful for specific people. Shigemichi has exactly one brain cell and it is permanently set to "defend my friends", so if he's confirmed Gnosia it tends to become super obvious who the others were. On the other hand, Raqio is smart and an rear end in a top hat so they'll happily throw their own allies under the bus as Gnosia.
Thuryl fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Mar 21, 2021 |
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Mar 21, 2021 23:35
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Fun(?) fact: Shigemichi is modeled after one of the developer's real life friends. Well, not so much the in-game model, but... behaviourally.
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Mar 21, 2021 23:39
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Thuryl posted:Yeah, looking at how characters interact with each other is especially helpful for specific people. Shigemichi has exactly one brain cell and it is permanently set to "defend my friends", so if he's confirmed Gnosia it tends to become super obvious who the others were. On the other hand, Raqio is smart and an rear end in a top hat so they'll happily throw their own allies under the bus as Gnosia. It's also cool how they'll play their abilities to their best: Kukrushka is insanely hard to pin down as Gnosia cause her Regret makes people jump to defend her, SQ will constantly do alliances and exagerate her arguments and Yuriko is the worst.
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Mar 21, 2021 23:46
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HenryEx posted:Fun(?) fact: Shigemichi is modeled after one of the developer's real life friends. I can believe that. Shige is a textbook bad werewolf player (much like I am)
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Mar 21, 2021 23:57
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GiantRockFromSpace posted:Charm: 15. Currently wondering if it's worth going to 25 for Regret, the AI that use them usually get a shitton of free defenses and my biggest problem so far is the AI hating me because I talk too much apparently. In my experience Regret is extremely powerful and nearly always makes people stop dog-piling me. I don't think I've gotten voted off earlier than the very end of the game since I've gotten it. GiantRockFromSpace posted:It's also cool how they'll play their abilities to their best: Kukrushka is insanely hard to pin down as Gnosia cause her Regret makes people jump to defend her, SQ will constantly do alliances and exagerate her arguments and Yuriko is the worst. "Exaggerate," on the other hand, hasn't seemed to make that big of a difference for me. GiantRockFromSpace posted:The one thing I'm annoyed about it's the drat Shut Up mechanic, seems kinda random how much is too much (do skills even count?) and if the AI uses it welp everyone hates you have fun going to cold sleep. Not to mention it runs contrary to actual social deduction games where the most active people are the least likely to be scum. Is it related to a stat or do you need to use the wait option a bit more? Regarding "Shut Up," that's where Charm comes into play. Your Charm is low so you're going to have hard getting people to stop attacking you once they turn against you. Charm is important because it effectively has the dual benefits of "preventing you from getting voted for" and "letting you make more arguments because people are less likely to turn against you." KICK BAMA KICK posted:OTOH, it's really funny when I'm certain that's what happening but actually I'm just the only dumbdumb unknowingly allied with the actual Gnosia but it doesn't matter cause everyone else solves the problem without my help. There were two times where I've been completely owned by allying with Kukrushka. After the second time I realized that you should just never ally with or trust her under any circumstances. She's maybe the strongest Gnosia. She's pretty useless as a crew-friendly role, though, since she usually just bases her accusations off of who she likes/dislikes. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Mar 22, 2021 |
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Mar 22, 2021 01:07
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Not sure what I'm supposed to do with the games where from the first turn a huge bloc immediately forms around like, Yuriko, and it's obvious that the Gnosia are among them even if I'm not 100% who yet, but they're just gonna steamroll the minority out ASAP. OTOH, it's really funny when I'm certain that's what happening but actually I'm just the only dumbdumb unknowingly allied with the actual Gnosia but it doesn't matter cause everyone else solves the problem without my help.
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Mar 22, 2021 01:17
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I find the game is a better experience if you don't get too invested in winning every round, and instead prioritize surviving as long as possible to see character events.
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Mar 22, 2021 01:29
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HenryEx posted:Fun(?) fact: Shigemichi is modeled after one of the developer's real life friends. This is extremely believable
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Mar 22, 2021 01:32
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Shige is the best because if you are nice to him, he’ll defend you until he eventually gets iced. Been experimenting with games and the 15 crew + 6 Gnosia is fun (as gnos because I’m a chump). Well, it’s fun until your crew consists of Shige, Gina, and Stella. My performance is at like 1; so if I say a word, I’m iced immediately.
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Mar 22, 2021 01:41
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After a few more loops (i have a problem help) yeah I can confirm, Shut Up is basically doom unless there's a more obvious target and Intuition seems to hit a threshold since I went from never getting any lies to discovering who was the true Engineer because I knew who of the 4 claims were lying lol. (Mostly went for Don't Be Fooled, which is a Uno Reverse card if a sus character accuses you). But yeah, Stealth seems like the stat you leave at 10 and never look back because Small Talk is enough to protect you as crew while the other ability costs a lot of points and can fail. Hilarious scenario when I learned it, found as Engineer Sha-Ming was Gnosia, he groveled and everyone forgave him, and he taunted me so I asked to learn that from him... only for my next target to be the Bug, so it was him, Comet (who was Crew) and me. He didn't try it twice. Ultimately given you seem to be able to endlessly loop you'll reach a point your stats are good enough you can do all things so it doesn't matter in the long run, but I agree in the end it's probably better to focus Charm and Performance since the true lose condition is dying/getting iced since you don't get to see events.
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Mar 22, 2021 01:59
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