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Maera Sior
Jan 5, 2012

I have so many thoughts regarding previous episodes while watching these ones. No wonder Eren transformed when Willy said those words.

Also lol at "I'm totally doing this under my own will and not at all influenced by the huge number of people I'm carrying inside of me."

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a seagull
Apr 11, 2007

Maera Sior posted:

I have so many thoughts regarding previous episodes while watching these ones. No wonder Eren transformed when Willy said those words.

Also lol at "I'm totally doing this under my own will and not at all influenced by the huge number of people I'm carrying inside of me."

"Armin, you're being controlled by the one titan you ate. I am totally normal with multiple ones though."

Which, do titan memories go all the way back? The previous Beast Titan sort of implies that. It seems like each generation of the Nine would be more and more mentally unstable as a result.

Maera Sior
Jan 5, 2012

Suds McBoo posted:

"Armin, you're being controlled by the one titan you ate. I am totally normal with multiple ones though."

Which, do titan memories go all the way back? The previous Beast Titan sort of implies that. It seems like each generation of the Nine would be more and more mentally unstable as a result.

"I feel like that 'My will not is not being dictated by the army of titans in my head' t-shirt should have answered your question."

Sinistral
Jan 2, 2013

Maera Sior posted:

I have so many thoughts regarding previous episodes while watching these ones. No wonder Eren transformed when Willy said those words.

Also lol at "I'm totally doing this under my own will and not at all influenced by the huge number of people I'm carrying inside of me."

To be fair, what could be more quintessentially Eren then wanting to kill all the Titans.

Maera Sior
Jan 5, 2012

Sinistral posted:

To be fair, what could be more quintessentially Eren then wanting to kill all the Titans.

If he got them, it was right after he experienced massive trauma, so it's not like he'd know they might be adding to it.

Alan_Shore
Dec 2, 2004

Holy poo poo. How can this show make me empathize with loving ZEKE of all people?

This is the best show.

Still gently caress Zeke and the best bit was Levi chopping up his legs.

RIP Levi

Why didn't Zeke and eren just do their plan right then and there? Didn't trust each other yet?

a seagull
Apr 11, 2007

Alan_Shore posted:

Holy poo poo. How can this show make me empathize with loving ZEKE of all people?

Seriously, Grisha and Dina were loving awful parents.

Zeke (and later Eren) was a means to an end, not their son.

a seagull fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Mar 22, 2021

Nephthys
Mar 27, 2010

Pretty crazy to get those episodes as a two-parter.

There's a zero percent chance that Eren is actually going along with Zeke's lunatic plan. Given that in the end he's the one in the drivers seat of how to use the power, I think it's guaranteed that he's just stringing Zeke along. Forcing his people into a sad, slow extinction with no chance to fight back? No way would Eren go for that plan. I also don't buy that he hates Mikasa and Armin, he's just trying to push them away for some reason.


Also, gently caress Floch. What a little bastard.

Nephthys fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Mar 22, 2021

dipwood
Feb 22, 2004

rouge means red in french

dipwood posted:

I'm still trying to figure out what's up with Zeke. Did he care about Eldia when he invaded 4 years ago and murdered a ton of Eldians? When he turned in his own parents? He better have a drat good explanation for all this. He was written as an overconfident dumbass 4 years ago. The same as Galliard.

I still think he's an overconfident dumbass.

a seagull
Apr 11, 2007

dipwood posted:

I still think he's an overconfident dumbass.

He's good at concocting a plan and terrible at improvising when it gets derailed by someone like Levi.

Gantolandon
Aug 19, 2012

dipwood posted:

I'm still trying to figure out what's up with Zeke. Did he care about Eldia when he invaded 4 years ago and murdered a ton of Eldians? When he turned in his own parents? He better have a drat good explanation for all this. He was written as an overconfident dumbass 4 years ago. The same as Galliard.

I wouldn't say he's an overconfident dumbass. He makes the most of his titan, which (as Xaver stated) is pretty much useless in open fight. He's obviously very good at using the battlefield to his advantage, he's a good enough plotter to play both Marley and Eldia at the same time and never starts a fight without hedging his bets as much as possible. Levi, however, is the worst possible enemy for him – not only because he's pretty much the best fighter in the world going against a middling titan, but also an unsophisticated guy that just wants to be pointed at the nearest enemy and gently caress him up against a master plotter.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

Suds McBoo posted:

Ep. 15: Levi really should've seen that coming. Hopefully not RIP.
Yeah agreed. If you're gonna kill him anyway then why wouldn't he detonate it?

Nephthys posted:

Pretty crazy to get those episodes as a two-parter.

There's a zero percent chance that Eren is actually going along with Zeke's lunatic plan. Given that in the end he's the one in the drivers seat of how to use the power, I think it's guaranteed that he's just stringing Zeke along. Forcing his people into a sad, slow extinction with no chance to fight back? No way would Eren go for that plan. I also don't buy that he hates Mikasa and Armin, he's just trying to push them away for some reason.


Also, gently caress Floch. What a little bastard.
Also agreed. I think Eren would sooner wipe out the entire outside world than let Paradis perish.

teagone
Jun 10, 2003

That was pretty intense, huh?

drat, gently caress Eren holy poo poo.

Virginia Slams
Nov 17, 2012

Alan_Shore posted:

Holy poo poo. How can this show make me empathize with loving ZEKE of all people?

This is the best show.

Still gently caress Zeke and the best bit was Levi chopping up his legs.

RIP Levi

Why didn't Zeke and eren just do their plan right then and there? Didn't trust each other yet?

I think there's a couple reasons

1. It's kind of up in the air for me whether the rumbling is even part of Zeke/Eren's supposed agreed upon plan or if that's just their distraction for everyone to think about. It's a flawed plan from the beginning if not paired with the rumbling to destroy Marley which would take a lot of time I imagine considering the wall titans need to cross an ocean/sea. Doing it right then and there without the rumbling to stop Marley would accomplish nothing. What's paradis gonna do send a letter to Marley afterwards and say "yo were infertile now through titan magic please believe us, so can we all be friends and you not invade and genocide us?"

2. I don't believe Eren is actually 100% on board with Zeke's plan because it makes no sense. Making eldians infertile does nothing to help eldians in the short term(which seems to be Zeke's goal since there will be no long term with his plan), the threat of Marley and their ever advancing technology still exists and they would still attack now and even if they potentially lose they would be back again with even more advanced technology. But if they attack and destroy Marley then there is no need to make them infertile anymore because they would be free.


Unrelated to the above but I watched AoT when it first came out in 2013 and absolutely loved it but gave up on waiting for a new season after like 3 years. Only in the past month caught up on all of it and I can't say it was worth the wait. I found the whole Marley reveal to be underwhelming and disappointing, it took away the cool mystery and replaced it with boring character twists nearly every episode. For me at least it's not engaging like it was when it was just "wtf is going on". I guess that's the nature of progressing the plot but ironically considering how long the show has taken to get this far it seemed rushed into like 2 episodes to explain everything. I'm not sure what I was expecting going back into it after an 8 year break but drat I'm disappointed in the direction it went. I just want it to be over so I can see if it can change my mind but probably gonna have to wait at least another year after the next episode and probably wont care anymore when it comes out lol.

Strawberry Pyramid
Dec 12, 2020

by Pragmatica
I get some people not liking these last arcs. The series started as straight survival horror and has slowly morphed to a discussion of man's capacity for cruelty towards his fellow man, in all it's forms.

Personally, my favorite horror is psyche horror, so an examination of the monster inside every single human's heart is right up my alley.

Alan_Shore
Dec 2, 2004

I absolutely do NOT think Eren is on board with any of this. He's keeping Armin and Mikasa away from him. And why did he knock up Historia (I think he's the prime suspect)? I don't know what he's doing but he's doing it all by himself.

Or he really has gone nuts lol

Zeke has to be dead. Got his life story, got his last words, that's it. If he's still alive that's a hell of an rear end-pull I won't be happy about.

Levi is still alive is totally hosed. He can't fight any more. I'm gutted.

I feel sorry for people who don't like the Marley stuff, for me that kicked the show up into the stratosphere. So interesting, so engaging, literally no idea what's happening next, all the odds stacked against our heroes...

When you think what it could have been... like an evil wizard creating titans? A titan society? An evil scientist? No thanks

grieving for Gandalf
Apr 22, 2008

it was already good, but everything this season has made it one of the best

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Alan_Shore posted:

I absolutely do NOT think Eren is on board with any of this. He's keeping Armin and Mikasa away from him. And why did he knock up Historia (I think he's the prime suspect)? I don't know what he's doing but he's doing it all by himself.

Or he really has gone nuts lol

The two aren't mutually exclusive at this point, honestly.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015

17th Separate Kryvyi Rih Tank Brigade named after Konstantin Pestushko
Look to my coming on the first light of the fifth sixth some day
Aside from the small addition of compulsory sterilization for all Eldians, Zeke's plan was largely as he described to the Azumabitos/Paradis government; take control of the Rumbling, execute a limited attack to demonstrate its power (ie targeting Marley's military forces), then use this demonstration as leverage to force the world to back off.

It's not foolproof, but does sound reasonable enough - no matter how much human technology advances, it will never be a match for the Rumbling, and so the world will have no choice but to wait for the Eldian race to quietly die out in peace.

Gantolandon
Aug 19, 2012

Conspiratiorist posted:

Aside from the small addition of compulsory sterilization for all Eldians, Zeke's plan was largely as he described to the Azumabitos/Paradis government; take control of the Rumbling, execute a limited attack to demonstrate its power (ie targeting Marley's military forces), then use this demonstration as leverage to force the world to back off.

It's not foolproof, but does sound reasonable enough - no matter how much human technology advances, it will never be a match for the Rumbling, and so the world will have no choice but to wait for the Eldian race to quietly die out in peace.

That's why Historia needs to have a kid – pretty much the last born Eldian that can be titanized if necessary to initiate full Rumbling. If everything goes right, they'll be one of the last Eldians to die, ensuring that the others can live their lives in peace.

dipwood
Feb 22, 2004

rouge means red in french

Alan_Shore posted:

Zeke has to be dead. Got his life story, got his last words, that's it. If he's still alive that's a hell of an rear end-pull I won't be happy about.

Levi is still alive is totally hosed. He can't fight any more. I'm gutted.

I'm actually more pessimistic about this. In a previous season, they showed that Reiner can survive being beheaded by transferring his magical Eldian spirit to other parts of his body. As long as any significant part of Zeke is still around, he can probably grow back like crab grass.

Levi, on the other hand, has reached the peak of his plot usefulness. If he's not dead now... I don't think he can beat Eren now that Eren can resist all attacks with Warhammer Titan powers. I hope I'm wrong about this, but the treatment of pretty much the rest of the 'old guard' has me worried.

Toxic Fart Syndrome
Jul 2, 2006

*hits A-THREAD-5*

Only 3.6 Roentgoons per hour ... not great, not terrible.




...the meter only goes to 3.6...

Pork Pro
Eren is an rear end in a top hat. Levi should eat Zeke.

Alan_Shore
Dec 2, 2004

I was hoping Levi had a vial of serum on him, but probably not :smith:

Maera Sior
Jan 5, 2012

Gantolandon posted:

That's why Historia needs to have a kid – pretty much the last born Eldian that can be titanized if necessary to initiate full Rumbling. If everything goes right, they'll be one of the last Eldians to die, ensuring that the others can live their lives in peace.

Historia needs to have *many* kids in order for this to work. I see many ways that this could go wrong.

Strawberry Pyramid
Dec 12, 2020

by Pragmatica
Regardless of whatever Eren and the Jaegerists believe, Zeke indicated Yelena knew about the euthanization plan.

That means the Volunteers aren't just trying to topple Marley's hegemony, but also knowingly ethnically cleanse the hated Eldians out of existence.

gently caress them. So. Hard.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Strawberry Pyramid posted:

Regardless of whatever Eren and the Jaegerists believe, Zeke indicated Yelena knew about the euthanization plan.

That means the Volunteers aren't just trying to topple Marley's hegemony, but also knowingly ethnically cleanse the hated Eldians out of existence.

gently caress them. So. Hard.

Yelena knew, but that doesn't mean all the volunteers knew. As Niccolo noted, Yelena's big into compartmentalization of information. You know what you need to know. And not many people would need to know about the sterilization plan.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you
Plus I get the impression that Nicolo would not have been on board.

MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 05:18 on Mar 22, 2021

Freakazoid_
Jul 5, 2013


Buglord
Had the strength to wait, was not disappointed.

Levi continues to be an absolute badass, or was a badass to the end.

Does anyone else think Eren's accusation of Armin and Mikasa being under mind control has more holes in it than swiss cheese? At best you can say shifters often have the same goals because the previous shifter literally hand-picked their descendant in most cases. Armin has at least one big hint that he liked Annie before being forced to be a shifter. Eren has a point about Ackermann blood in Mikasa, but Levi internalized it so differently (loyalty to Erwin, beating up Eren, and overall compassion for his unit) it can't possibly be a hard and fast rule. Ymir likely didn't have any compatible thoughts about the previous shifter and apparently neither does Marco. It's such a flimsy accusation Armin should've easily refuted it just based on what he knows of Levi alone.

Maera Sior
Jan 5, 2012

There had better be some good memes from these past few episodes. Can someone please dig them up from Reddit or whatever other magical (spoiler-filled) realm them come from?

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015

17th Separate Kryvyi Rih Tank Brigade named after Konstantin Pestushko
Look to my coming on the first light of the fifth sixth some day
This one's from the manga but:

Scudworth
Jan 1, 2005

When life gives you lemons, you clone those lemons, and make super lemons.

Dinosaur Gum
Zeke is gonna turn the island into Children Of Men and i am here for it

Scudworth
Jan 1, 2005

When life gives you lemons, you clone those lemons, and make super lemons.

Dinosaur Gum

Maera Sior posted:

There had better be some good memes from these past few episodes. Can someone please dig them up from Reddit or whatever other magical (spoiler-filled) realm them come from?

https://twitter.com/JaysonSalt_/status/1353485940552044544

Alan_Shore
Dec 2, 2004

Last episode next week right? I'm expecting some kind of gutpunching bullbreaking cliffhanger of epic, even biblical proportions

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Alan_Shore posted:

Last episode next week right? I'm expecting some kind of gutpunching bullbreaking cliffhanger of epic, even biblical proportions

Yeah, finale's next week, along with an announcement of what's next for the anime.

And it's looking like they won't go with some of the most brutal cliffhangers available from the manga. I'm sure it's going to be rough, but it could probably be much, much worse.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit

Suds McBoo posted:

Ep. 15: Levi really should've seen that coming. Hopefully not RIP.

Levi thought Zeke a coward who'd go to his grave whimpering and pissing himself. He thought Zeke wouldn't have the guts. Of course, he would have been wrong either way, because a coward would sooner blow themselves up to end the suffering. But despite that, Levi was willing to take the risk, Zeke's spinal fluid was simply far too valuable.

How Darwinian
Feb 27, 2011

Freakazoid_ posted:

Does anyone else think Eren's accusation of Armin and Mikasa being under mind control has more holes in it than swiss cheese? At best you can say shifters often have the same goals because the previous shifter literally hand-picked their descendant in most cases. Armin has at least one big hint that he liked Annie before being forced to be a shifter. Eren has a point about Ackermann blood in Mikasa, but Levi internalized it so differently (loyalty to Erwin, beating up Eren, and overall compassion for his unit) it can't possibly be a hard and fast rule. Ymir likely didn't have any compatible thoughts about the previous shifter and apparently neither does Marco. It's such a flimsy accusation Armin should've easily refuted it just based on what he knows of Levi alone.

Not to mention Kenny, who nearly killed a previous King, putting a knife through his hand and then pulling a gun on him. He only stopped when Uri bowed to him and that certainly wasn't when his Ackerman powers activated. I don't think we ever saw when Kenny's powers activated, but Levi referenced that there was a moment when they did.

Seriously, go back and watch S0310, as I forgot most of it but it's insanely important in retrospect, as it's basically the only direct interactions with the previous line of Founding Titans that we have.

How Darwinian
Feb 27, 2011
Also, Zeke is such a tragic figure now. He reminds me of the sort of people who have an "insight" as a teenager then carry it with them for the rest of their lives, shaping everything else around it but never questioning whether the core idea they came to at 17; where the idea basically comes out of his childhood memory on the tower and his hatred of his own parents, but he's rationalized himself into thinking he worked his way to the idea logically.

It might have been unavoidable that Zeke would never go back and question the plan, because the only way he could come to understand the problems with the idea is by talking to people about it. And he either has to hide the plan from everyone, or else is dealing with people who idolize him and would never question it (e.g. Yelena). So when he talks to Eren, thinking he's finally found an equal that he can confide in, and Eren agrees, it's totally understandable why Zeke would be moved to tears, as Eren is probably the first person he could confide in about this since Ksaver. His whole life he's held this plan, and strategized brilliantly to bring it about, but the core of it is just a wound from his childhood that Eren immediately senses and uses to manipulate him.

Alan_Shore
Dec 2, 2004

Eren seems to be right about the Ackermanns. Mikasa, we see when she "activates" and immediately bonds herself to Eren (stopping Armin from attacking him is a blatant example that she can't seem to easily control this impulse).

Levi it seems bonded with Erwin, in a typical Levi way so not a 1:1 match with Eren/Mikasa. I watched his OVA but don't remember if we see when he "activated".

Kenny is the same with the king, but we don't see when he "activates" either I think? We still don't know much about the Ackermanns. We still don't know soooo much. I was hoping Ksaver would tell us more Titan stuff, and we got a bit.

Zeke will prrrrobably be alive, cos without him there is no plan. Plan's done. No royal blood, unless they feed Eren or Armin to Historia (won't happen).

gently caress this show is so good.

How Darwinian posted:

Also, Zeke is such a tragic figure now. He reminds me of the sort of people who have an "insight" as a teenager then carry it with them for the rest of their lives, shaping everything else around it but never questioning whether the core idea they came to at 17; where the idea basically comes out of his childhood memory on the tower and his hatred of his own parents, but he's rationalized himself into thinking he worked his way to the idea logically.

It might have been unavoidable that Zeke would never go back and question the plan, because the only way he could come to understand the problems with the idea is by talking to people about it. And he either has to hide the plan from everyone, or else is dealing with people who idolize him and would never question it (e.g. Yelena). So when he talks to Eren, thinking he's finally found an equal that he can confide in, and Eren agrees, it's totally understandable why Zeke would be moved to tears, as Eren is probably the first person he could confide in about this since Ksaver. His whole life he's held this plan, and strategized brilliantly to bring it about, but the core of it is just a wound from his childhood that Eren immediately senses and uses to manipulate him.

Great post and yet I still feel in my heart of hearts... gently caress ZEKE. Levi pegged him immediately. He doesn't care about anyone. In some ways Levi and Zeke have a similar upbringing regarding their parents and finding a surrogate.

Toxic Fart Syndrome
Jul 2, 2006

*hits A-THREAD-5*

Only 3.6 Roentgoons per hour ... not great, not terrible.




...the meter only goes to 3.6...

Pork Pro
Zeke and Levi are almost completely opposite. Zeke sees other humans as tools: a means to an end. He feels no remorse or even spares a thought for the people he turns to Titans when dropped from the airship in S4E1 or when he Titanizes Levi’s new squad. Levi seems to have ~activated~ like Richard Reed: on all of humanity.

Levi will always do whatever is necessary to protect the most humans. He at least felt bad when he chopped his people to bits? Zeke feels nothing. His goal is extermination, so everyone is already dead, in his eyes. There is no atrocity too awful if you use it against the dead...

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whalestory
Feb 9, 2004

hey ya'll!

Pillbug
Xavier > Ksaver :negative:

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