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chiasaur11 posted:Yelena knew, but that doesn't mean all the volunteers knew. As Niccolo noted, Yelena's big into compartmentalization of information. You know what you need to know. And not many people would need to know about the sterilization plan.
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Mar 22, 2021 18:00
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Ksaver sounds like a regional dollar store chain
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Mar 22, 2021 18:17
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Man, Isayama really hates Jews, doesn't he. It's depressing to me just how anti-Semitic this series is.
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Mar 22, 2021 18:22
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No?
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Mar 22, 2021 18:23
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Assuming you're doing the eldians = Jews thing 99% of all named characters are "jews." 2 of them have been shown to have extreme internalized "antisemitism" as a result of their wildly hosed up upbringing and life circumstances. Attack on titan is certainly making a commentary on fascism and genocide and to dent that would be insane, but to say the show hasn't been sympathetic to the primary cast or that it puts forward a reasonable argument for their execution is, uh, not exactly true. What it has done is shown that combinations of life circumstances might bring a sympathetic character to hold those views but if you think Zeke is the good guy here or that we're still supposed to be rooting for eren I dunno what to tell you man ninjewtsu fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Mar 22, 2021 |
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Mar 22, 2021 18:26
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Blood libel.
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Mar 22, 2021 18:27
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Yeah they sure do keep on bringing that topic up. I wonder what recent episodes might've had to say on the topic though. Perhaps there was a character deeply entrenched in that concept who got into an argument with a friend who's mom died who made some pretty compelling disagreements with the concept.
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Mar 22, 2021 18:30
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GATOS Y VATOS posted:Man, Isayama really hates Jews, doesn't he. It's depressing to me just how anti-Semitic this series is. Is this a joke lol
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Mar 22, 2021 18:49
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Do morons see characters wearing armbands and just start screeching JEWSSSSSS
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Mar 22, 2021 18:51
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GATOS Y VATOS posted:Man, Isayama really hates Jews, doesn't he. It's depressing to me just how anti-Semitic this series is. Please don't do this vague posting. If you think that there's something anti-semetic about the series to discuss, please provide examples and explain how it's anti-semetic.
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Mar 22, 2021 19:00
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GATOS Y VATOS posted:Blood libel. "The “blood libel” refers to a centuries-old false allegation that Jews murder Christians – especially Christian children – to use their blood for ritual purposes, such as an ingredient in the baking of Passover matzah" Wait, who are the Christians in Attack on Titan? Marleyans? But it's Eldians eating Eldians. HOW DOES THIS WORK
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Mar 22, 2021 19:00
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Alan_Shore posted:Do morons see characters wearing armbands and just start screeching JEWSSSSSS I mean I'd be alarmed if people saw the armbands and didn't immediately start asking if the show had antisemitic messaging or not, that's definitely the kind of thing that should make you do a double take because it would be extremely easy for that to result in an antisemitic story Luckily attack on titan is good and doesn't use the imagery to antisemitic ends. I kinda wish it was a little less blatant so it didn't look quite so bad out of context, but I do also really appreciate iseyama not trying to dance around it and just being upfront about what historical context the imagery is definitely supposed to evoke.
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Mar 22, 2021 19:06
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Oh I didnt realize that blood libel and blood curse are actually 2 entirely different antisemitic concepts lmao, I thought they were bringing up the blood curse thing
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Mar 22, 2021 19:07
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Zeke's plan is dumb, anyways...Marley's whole crisis is that Titans are being surpassed by industrialization and it certainly isn't stopping the collateral damage. 
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Mar 22, 2021 19:18
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zeke gonna be real mad when eren's real plan is to go full Bender and kill all humans not just eldians 
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Mar 22, 2021 19:21
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ninjewtsu posted:I mean I'd be alarmed if people saw the armbands and didn't immediately start asking if the show had antisemitic messaging or not, that's definitely the kind of thing that should make you do a double take because it would be extremely easy for that to result in an antisemitic story I get that but it's not just Jews who've been forced into ghettos/camps and had to wear marks/armbands. Muslims, Chinese, Japanese, just about every POW in history. So I think to see an armband and a ghetto and think "JEWS" is lazy at best Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:Zeke's plan is dumb, anyways...Marley's whole crisis is that Titans are being surpassed by industrialization and it certainly isn't stopping the collateral damage. His whole plan is that he doesn't want to live. He thinks he's saving countless souls from the pain of living as an Eldian. Living is pain. Like Ksaver said. It's a recurring theme, life is cruel, life is pain. The difference between Zeke and say Mikasa/Armin is that they also see life as beautiful and worth fighting for. Eren did too... or still does
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Mar 22, 2021 19:49
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Ehhhhhh the 1930s Germany aesthetics really lock it in, I don't think there's really a ton of room to argue on that front. It's definitely intentional that iseyama wants you to be thinking about specifically jewish ghettos when it comes to the eldians in Marley
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Mar 22, 2021 19:50
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ninjewtsu posted:Ehhhhhh the 1930s Germany aesthetics really lock it in, I don't think there's really a ton of room to argue on that front. It's definitely intentional that iseyama wants you to be thinking about specifically jewish ghettos when it comes to the eldians in Marley I mean it's very possible. I dare not research anything on him or the show for spoilers. Has he talked about the parallels with Jews in WW2?
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Mar 22, 2021 21:04
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GATOS Y VATOS posted:Blood libel. Do you wanna elaborate on that at all?
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Mar 22, 2021 21:19
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You guys realize that films like Jojo Rabbit and Life is Beautiful don't actually support Nazi ideology, despite containing significant Nazi iconography, right? Even if we accept the premise that the depiction of the Eldian ghettos is anti-Semitic, every main character that has been portrayed in a favorable light is Eldian? I think, at the worst, you could say this show sympathizes with a fantasy version of the Sonderkommando, which...uhhh...  Like, Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter seem more anti-Semitic than AoT...
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Mar 22, 2021 21:28
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:You guys realize that films like Jojo Rabbit and Life is Beautiful don't actually support Nazi ideology, despite containing significant Nazi iconography, right? Even if we accept the premise that the depiction of the Eldian ghettos is anti-Semitic, every main character that has been portrayed in a favorable light is Eldian? I think, at the worst, you could say this show sympathizes with a fantasy version of the Sonderkommando, which...uhhh... Without looking it up i woulda guessed sonderkommando was someone who realized everyone around them was a commando
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Mar 22, 2021 21:30
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GATOS Y VATOS posted:Blood libel. Elaborate on this.
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Mar 22, 2021 21:33
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:Zeke and Levi are almost completely opposite. Zeke sees other humans as tools: a means to an end. He feels no remorse or even spares a thought for the people he turns to Titans when dropped from the airship in S4E1 or when he Titanizes Levi’s new squad. One of my lowkey favorite Levi moments is at the end of S2 when the scouts figure out that titans are transformed humans, and his reaction is to angrily muse about how all this time he's been going around killing people, then snap at Erwin for his completely inappropriate smile. Phobophilia posted:Levi thought Zeke a coward who'd go to his grave whimpering and pissing himself. He thought Zeke wouldn't have the guts. Of course, he would have been wrong either way, because a coward would sooner blow themselves up to end the suffering. But despite that, Levi was willing to take the risk, Zeke's spinal fluid was simply far too valuable. While I'm sure large part of it was being extremely pissed off, and also having gotten a read on Zeke as a coward who'd cling to life on the hope of finding a way to turn things around, Levi's choice does make logical sense in the context of having only himself to watch over the prisoner: pinned with an explosive like that he's a dead man if he tries any surprise titan bullshit, and if he calls in new titans they won't be able to easily carry him away either. The  would've been to pin him to a dud, but I think it's an understandable mistake he made.
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Mar 22, 2021 21:38
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:You guys realize that films like Jojo Rabbit and Life is Beautiful don't actually support Nazi ideology, despite containing significant Nazi iconography, right? Even if we accept the premise that the depiction of the Eldian ghettos is anti-Semitic, every main character that has been portrayed in a favorable light is Eldian? I think, at the worst, you could say this show sympathizes with a fantasy version of the Sonderkommando, which...uhhh... It's like 2 morons, no one here thinks that. teagone posted:Elaborate on this. They will not be back, I'm pretty sure!
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Mar 22, 2021 22:53
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Conspiratiorist posted:One of my lowkey favorite Levi moments is at the end of S2 when the scouts figure out that titans are transformed humans, and his reaction is to angrily muse about how all this time he's been going around killing people, then snap at Erwin for his completely inappropriate smile.
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Mar 22, 2021 23:02
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Maybe Eren's plan is the opposite and "If everybody's a Titan, no one will be!"
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Mar 23, 2021 01:11
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SpartanIvy posted:Maybe Eren's plan is the opposite and "If everybody's a Titan, no one will be!" Or just let him be the last Titan by saying "No Titans for anyone!"
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Mar 23, 2021 02:48
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Rudoku posted:Or just let him be the last Titan by saying "No Titans for anyone!" Titans for some, miniature Eldian flags for others!
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Mar 23, 2021 02:52
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whalestory posted:Xavier > Ksaver Ksaver is just the Slavic version of Xavier. They're the same name Also fun fact, the Japanese kana for both is Ksaver and Xavier are the same. Vanderdeath fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Mar 23, 2021 04:41
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Ok, time for the rewatch thoughts: - Eren is telling the truth about feelings from other shifters being passed down. He's also telling the truth about Mikasa having imprinted on him, or whatever you want to call it. Eren's lying about Mikasa having no will and that he's hated her, but it's a great way to force her into understanding that she doesn't have full control over her actions. He's lying about his will being his own, but we don't know to what degree he's aware of it. - Armin's comment about Eren acting like a slave is the first time we've seen real emotion out of Eren all season. That one hit. - Seems like while Zeke's connection can be felt by everyone connected through his spinal fluid, his commands only work within earshot. - Not that any of us should have been surprised, but Grisha and Dina really were disaster parents. - I'm ok if Levi died like that. He's one of the final veteran members of the Scouts and the story has moved past his thematic usefulness.
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Mar 23, 2021 05:04
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In retrospect is was very, very dumb to hook a guy who can regenerate up to an explosive, give that guy control of the explosive and then stand next to said explosive but to be fair to Levi I didn't see what happened coming until right when it happened too.
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Mar 23, 2021 06:52
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Vanderdeath posted:Ksaver is just the Slavic version of Xavier. They're the same name That's so hosed up 
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Mar 23, 2021 07:59
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Alan_Shore posted:"The “blood libel” refers to a centuries-old false allegation that Jews murder Christians – especially Christian children – to use their blood for ritual purposes, such as an ingredient in the baking of Passover matzah" Did you miss the entire storyline of the Reiss family? A bloodline that ruled the world through brutal oppression and literally eating people? These are literally tropes that have been used against Jews for centuries. Never mind the mindless, giant nosed caricatures that consume everything in their path or Marleyans allowing "the good ones" to fight for their facist government etc. Even if Isayama was using all the bad Jewish tropes in the world to say "See this is a bad thing that is done to them" he's doing it in the worst way possible.
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Mar 23, 2021 12:53
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Yeah, there are parallels between the anti-Eldian propaganda and anti-Jewish myths. This has been clearly presented as a bad thing though, and I think it's difficult to construct a coherent anti-semitic reading of the series when basically every sympathetic character is part of the Jewish-coded race.
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Mar 23, 2021 13:12
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GATOS Y VATOS posted:Did you miss the entire storyline of the Reiss family? A bloodline that ruled the world through brutal oppression and literally eating people? These are literally tropes that have been used against Jews for centuries. Never mind the mindless, giant nosed caricatures that consume everything in their path or Marleyans allowing "the good ones" to fight for their facist government etc. 3/10 The Reiss situation isn't blood libel and the titans are big nose jews thing is tired and wrong. But hey, you are allowed to retake the test as many times as you want before Julias gets tried of this.
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Mar 23, 2021 13:19
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GATOS Y VATOS posted:Did you miss the entire storyline of the Reiss family? A bloodline that ruled the world through brutal oppression and literally eating people? quote:These are literally tropes that have been used against Jews for centuries. Never mind the mindless, giant nosed caricatures that consume everything in their path or Marleyans allowing "the good ones" to fight for their facist government etc. I love how people use the one or two examples of titans with giant noses as some sort of own, when the vast majority of titans are just giant proportioned humans with normal structure. Also once again fascist governments conscripting the oppressed is a story told time and time again in history, its not even a particular significant part of the holocaust compared to the forced labor and death camps.
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Mar 23, 2021 13:31
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GATOS Y VATOS posted:Man, Isayama really hates Jews, doesn't he. It's depressing to me just how anti-Semitic this series is.
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Mar 23, 2021 13:37
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My hot take, also called 'Occam's Razor' argument: I doubt Isayama has any anti-Jewish intentions, because in fact I doubt he has even known Jewish people, religion or culture personally. He is a Japan man who lives in Japan. The average Japanese knows barely a few things about Jews (if any at all!), with the source of information being a few Hollywood movies. Hell, I doubt there is any special pro- or anti- jewish movements or views in Japan in the first place. They are just a too small minority in the first place to even have an opinion of them. Even Christianity is a minority in Japan, same as Islamism. People who does dumb takes as believing AoT is anti-jewish are forgetting that Japan is not USA, is not Europe or Russia or Middle East. They are forgetting how big is the world. Without the historical context, without the religion factor, etc, the same conditions for anti-jewish sentiments are almost impossible to take root. So your average Asiatic person isn't going to give three fucks about jews in the first place. It's like some dumb takes I've read about race in x manga or anime, because some dumb American see everything through the race optics. In reality in at least a good amount of Asia they care much, much less about race, by virtue of the vast majority being the same race. On the other hand, they care much more about nationalism, both China, Korea and Japan are big into nationalism historically and all their past conflict. Some adaption change a character's skin color? Whatever. They change him from Chinese to Korean? Oh boy...
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Mar 23, 2021 13:39
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Japan has many far-right nationalist political parties and nazi sympathizers but somehow they know nothing about Jews?
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Mar 23, 2021 13:47
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I think Onyakopon's line about different races existing because god wanted them to be born sums up AOT's thoughts about race and racism pretty well.
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Mar 23, 2021 13:48
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