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Burkion
May 10, 2012

by Fluffdaddy

FilthyImp posted:

Steven Universe and Nu She-Ra were both described as HopePunk and it was fuckin duuuuuuuumbb

I have an intense revulsion to this knowledge and I cannot express why

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MacheteZombie
Feb 4, 2007
too bad y'all, its cined canon that snyders dceu is hopepunk eternal

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

KVeezy3 posted:

The example I gave isn't an extreme strawman, and was quite common when the Man of Steel thread was in its prime. Posters pushing back on those kind of empty readings are a big reason why CineD has this reputation as being smug elitists about 'empty' popcorn films. And posters still routinely drive by, completely bewildered that people actually like Snyder's interpretations of these characters and worlds.

Well I think we can actually agree that if you've only seen the theatrical BvS and only the Whedon JL that you've had a pretty awful experience. So its not that bewildering that people have those takes. I still haven't seen ultimate BvS myself.

But regardless of it being something someone posted before, its still nothing to do with the current discussion and not worth bringing up. Like yeah, trolls also exist, but "well someone once trolled ____" isn't really something worth bringing up in a discussion of legitimate takes. It risks completely derailing the conversation, and feels like you're even saying "anybody who disagrees with me is like one of these idiots".

Augus
Mar 9, 2015


just call it "optimistic" or "positive" or something jfc

Vintersorg
Mar 3, 2004

President of
the Brendan Fraser
Fan Club



Hopepunk is dumb.

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Anime Deviant
I prefer Snyderpunk

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.
Y'all just gotta accept that -punk is a suffix now and people are going to abuse it for shorthand :cheeky: its like -gate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vB9JgxhXW5w

LesterGroans
Jun 9, 2009

It's funny...

You were so scary at night.

MacheteZombie posted:

too bad y'all, its cined canon that snyders dceu is hopepunk eternal

Um, Mods????



...oh, poo poo...

MacheteZombie
Feb 4, 2007
:getin:

Grimdude
Sep 25, 2006

It was a shame how he carried on
Toxic positivity is how I've heard that idea described more often, and yes it's absolutely a thing.

Augus
Mar 9, 2015


Gatts
Jan 2, 2001

Goodnight Moon

Nap Ghost

Zaphod42 posted:

As cited earlier, warhammer fans lean into it.

From what media I’ve consumed of Warhammer, I dare say their fans have a sense of humor about the whole thing, aren’t fooled and know what it is they’re dealing with in subject matter and don’t take it personal level serious.

But I could be wrong

“If the Emperor had a text to speech device” is one of the best comedies on YouTube

Gatts fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Mar 22, 2021

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

Gatts posted:

From what media I’ve consumed of Warhammer, I dare say their fans have a sense of humor about the whole thing, aren’t fooled and know what it is they’re dealing with in subject matter and don’t take it personal level serious.

But I could be wrong

“If the Emperor had a text to speech device” is one of the best comedies on YouTube

I mean, yeah? That just sounds healthy. Not sure I see the point you're making.

Are you saying anybody who calls a Snyder movie "grimdark" isn't doing that and must be taking it personally?

Yeah Bruva Alfabusa is funny poo poo.

Horizon Burning
Oct 23, 2019
:discourse:

Burkion posted:

I have an intense revulsion to this knowledge and I cannot express why

Steven Universe ended with the hopeful message that you should feel bad and sorry for the tyrannical intergalactic titans because they were sad, you see

The show was so good for a time too but at some point it just went utterly inane

Arkage
Aug 10, 2008

Things fall apart;
the centre cannot hold

A good deal on the left already framed Snyder as unforgivable due to supposed Objectivism, Christian Science, and hip youtube armchair analysis channels that become defacto mascots for making GBS threads on him. This movie is yet another political battle for those who smash everything around them into a culture war framework, just like with what happened to TLJ.

KVeezy3
Aug 18, 2005

Airport Music for Black Folk

Zaphod42 posted:

Well I think we can actually agree that if you've only seen the theatrical BvS and only the Whedon JL that you've had a pretty awful experience. So its not that bewildering that people have those takes. I still haven't seen ultimate BvS myself.

But regardless of it being something someone posted before, its still nothing to do with the current discussion and not worth bringing up. Like yeah, trolls also exist, but "well someone once trolled ____" isn't really something worth bringing up in a discussion of legitimate takes. It risks completely derailing the conversation, and feels like you're even saying "anybody who disagrees with me is like one of these idiots".

It's not about disagreement or whether one personally liked or had an awful experience with a film. I've read plenty of interesting reads of films by posters here of films they thought were dreadful. I brought past examples up because people use concepts like "Grim-dark" in a similar way, to function as roadblocks to discussion.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

KVeezy3 posted:

It's not about disagreement or whether one personally liked or had an awful experience with a film. I've read plenty of interesting reads of films by posters here of films they thought were dreadful. I brought past examples up because people use concepts like "Grim-dark" in a similar way, to function as roadblocks to discussion.

If somebody is trolling then the problem is they're trolling, not the use of a single word. Sorry but I think you just gotta call that out for what it is, and its even equally toxic to assume someone is being disingenuous and label them such because they used a word.

Augus
Mar 9, 2015



it's interesting how joss whedon's real-life abuse of the cast and crew on the set of Justice League isn't deemed worth even briefly mentioning but zack snyder making the fictional character batman be a bad guy for two hours is an unforgiveable crime

hiddenriverninja
May 10, 2013

life is locomotion
keep moving
trust that you'll find your way

Augus posted:

i have never heard the term hopepunk until now and I already despise it

"It's not an S. On my world, it means 'hopepunk'."

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Anime Deviant

Augus posted:

it's interesting how joss whedon's real-life abuse of the cast and crew on the set of Justice League isn't deemed worth even briefly mentioning
"people were dicks about wanting something online, the horror"

KVeezy3
Aug 18, 2005

Airport Music for Black Folk

Zaphod42 posted:

If somebody is trolling then the problem is they're trolling, not the use of a single word. Sorry but I think you just gotta call that out for what it is, and its even equally toxic to assume someone is being disingenuous and label them such because they used a word.

You're getting me wrong here. I'm not labeling them as trolls, because I don't think they're being disingenuous.

LesterGroans
Jun 9, 2009

It's funny...

You were so scary at night.

FilthyImp posted:

"people were dicks about wanting something online, the horror"

It's such a weird tactic to try to make people give a poo poo about someone's Twitter mentions.

Mantis42
Jul 26, 2010

Zack Snyder is the Bernie Sanders of cape poo poo.

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003

Zaphod42 posted:

If somebody is trolling then the problem is they're trolling, not the use of a single word. Sorry but I think you just gotta call that out for what it is, and its even equally toxic to assume someone is being disingenuous and label them such because they used a word.

I mean, tracing this discussion back to the beginning, that's exactly what people were saying all along. This started when someone said "I don't get why people said MoS was grimdark" and then you started talking about the usage of the word. But the person who first used the word on page 90 wasn't referencing a single specific use of the word "grimdark" and why it was wrong to use it in that instance, they were using it as short hand for 8 years of complaints about the tone of MoS

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

This is a can of worms and you know maybe it's better off not bringing up but dangit I just can't help it. I am extremely tired of media platforms propping up white women who seem to have taken on alternate names that just kind of happen to by total coincidence make them more "exotic and ethnic" sounding, and then they happen to present themselves as a voice for all minorities, and they just conveniently never actually explain what kind of place of privilege they may actually be speaking from.

It is very difficult to go down this road of discussion without approaching the subject of doxxing, and I absolutely have no interest in prying into that writer's life or doing anything beyond making this post and then moving on. And with any given figure it is of course possible to have a bad read on the situation because I, in fact, have no idea where they're really coming from.

But the same poo poo happened with certain rabidly anti-Bernie people and my reflex is now to trust my instinct to ignore that kind of person.

Megaman's Jockstrap
Jul 16, 2000

What a horrible thread to have a post.

Mantis42 posted:

Zack Snyder is the Bernie Sanders of cape poo poo.

Confirmed.

https://twitter.com/joss/status/1121443103972438017?lang=en

Arkage
Aug 10, 2008

Things fall apart;
the centre cannot hold

Zaphod42 posted:

If somebody is trolling then the problem is they're trolling, not the use of a single word. Sorry but I think you just gotta call that out for what it is, and its even equally toxic to assume someone is being disingenuous and label them such because they used a word.

Toxic is about as useful and clearly defined a word as grimdark these days. Next you'll say I'm being problematic. Yikes.

(Ok I'm done now)

Arkage fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Mar 22, 2021

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

Arkage posted:

Toxic is about as useful and clearly defined a word as grimdark these days. Next you'll say I'm being problematic. Yikes.

(Ok I'm done now)

:psyduck:

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

Don't Blink

LesterGroans posted:

Um, Mods????



...oh, poo poo...

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003

"Toxic" and especially "problematic" are perfectly cromulent words, not a fan of "grimdark" outside it's context within Warcraft

Blood Boils
Dec 27, 2006

Its not an S, on my planet it means QUIPS
At some point we all have to try to move beyond whatever noun is causing a ruckus and explain what we mean by it using details from the work itself, anything less has no merit or substance

CelticPredator
Oct 11, 2013
🍀👽🆚🪖🏋

There’s nothing toxic about bullying corporations.

Specific people maybe. Depending on the context. (Everyone who wants Kathleen Kennedy can choke on my rear end)

Bootleg Trunks
Jun 12, 2020

Zaphod42 posted:

She's exceptionally evil, but I have ALWAYS hated her character design in comics and in animated incarnations.

The whole thing is just like "lol what if a cute old grandma was super evil wouldn't that be wacky?" comics are weird and try a lot of different things.

She does have a whole backstory yeah but its... eh.

As someone with an evil grandma I appreciate the representation.

smoobles
Sep 4, 2014

Why did Bruce Wayne buy the bank, instead of just buying the Kents' house from the bank

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!
Probably wants to go insanely above and beyond because he's still guilty about going sickhouse on Superman's rear end

John Wick of Dogs
Mar 4, 2017

A real hellraiser


smoobles posted:

Why did Bruce Wayne buy the bank, instead of just buying the Kents' house from the bank

So he could forgive even more debt

Blood Boils
Dec 27, 2006

Its not an S, on my planet it means QUIPS

smoobles posted:

Why did Bruce Wayne buy the bank, instead of just buying the Kents' house from the bank


He's a capitalist, and his charities are all Gotham based


John Wick of Dogs posted:

So he could forgive even more debt

It's a nice start but he's not THAT redeemed

John Wick of Dogs
Mar 4, 2017

A real hellraiser


Blood Boils posted:

He's a capitalist, and his charities are all Gotham based


It's a nice start but he's not THAT redeemed

He was trying to solve the mystery of who stole $100,000 from the Gotham Bank

John Wick of Dogs
Mar 4, 2017

A real hellraiser


HBomberguy Begins

https://twitter.com/Hbomberguy/status/1374122315206770688?s=19

He loves Zack Snyder and all his fans hate Zack Snyder, so the replies are hilarious

John Wick of Dogs fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Mar 22, 2021

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Chairman Capone
Dec 17, 2008

Horizon Burning posted:

Steven Universe ended with the hopeful message that you should feel bad and sorry for the tyrannical intergalactic titans because they were sad, you see

Aren't its fans notoriously vile and entitled, too? I feel like the only time I heard about the show was its fans trying to cyberbully someone into committing suicide for not drawing characters fat enough or poo poo like that.

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