Comic Book Movies: The day the Batgirl Cried

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Comic Book Movies: The day the Batgirl Cried

Grendels Dad: Mar 5, 2011; Popular culture has passed you by.

Piell posted:

Do you think the music plays constantly and I only counted when the subtitles showed up? I didn't, the sting would play and then stop a few seconds later only to play again about two minutes later

Well, yeah I originally thought you'd be that stupid, well done I guess. But how many seconds are between the end of one and the beginning of the next sting. Like, could you give me an exact number here?

# ? Mar 22, 2021 19:51

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# ? Apr 19, 2024 12:42

roffels: Jul 27, 2004; Yo Taxi!

Grendels Dad posted:

Well, yeah I originally thought you'd be that stupid, well done I guess. But how many seconds are between the end of one and the beginning of the next sting. Like, could you give me an exact number here?

Why is there an argument about this?

It annoyed them. I thought it was worth an eye-roll. Some people were into it. I'd rather be into it, but thought it was a little over the top.

# ? Mar 22, 2021 19:57

Grendels Dad: Mar 5, 2011; Popular culture has passed you by.

roffels posted:

Why is there an argument about this?

It annoyed them. I thought it was worth an eye-roll. Some people were into it. I'd rather be into it, but thought it was a little over the top.

It's because they made a big deal out of it, claiming it happened every other minute and I'm just curious to find out how deep that rabbit hole goes. Like with the aspect ratio, stings are rarely ever this annoying to people but here it was the center of criticism by that joker for a few posts.

# ? Mar 22, 2021 19:59

CelticPredator: Oct 11, 2013; 🍀👽🆚🪖🏋

remember when there was a doofy evil Williams theme up in the soundtrack

# ? Mar 22, 2021 20:01

Piell: Sep 3, 2006; Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer; Young Orc

Grendels Dad posted:

It's because they made a big deal out of it, claiming it happened every other minute and I'm just curious to find out how deep that rabbit hole goes. Like with the aspect ratio, stings are rarely ever this annoying to people but here it was the center of criticism by that joker for a few posts.

In the Wonder Woman bank scene and the Steppenwolf vs Amazon scene it played basically every two minutes, I gave you timecodes

Piell posted:

Prepare to be shocked, I skimmed through the Wonder Woman bank fight scene and the Steppenwolf v Amazons fight alone and got to 7

1st time the wailing happens is at 20:13
2nd time at 21:50
3rd time at 23:39
4th time at 25:26
5th time at 29:29
6th time at 31:55
7th time at 35:54

# ? Mar 22, 2021 20:02

MacheteZombie: Feb 4, 2007

roffels posted:

Why is there an argument about this?

It annoyed them. I thought it was worth an eye-roll. Some people were into it. I'd rather be into it, but thought it was a little over the top.

and we thought aspect ratio chat was bad!

# ? Mar 22, 2021 20:03

Grendels Dad: Mar 5, 2011; Popular culture has passed you by.

Piell posted:

In the Wonder Woman bank scene and the Steppenwolf vs Amazon scene it played basically every two minutes, I gave you timecodes

Yeah, and I asked for how long it played in each instance. You have already gone to the effort to include time stamps, my suspicion is that you are a terrible nitpick and the 1st time the wailing happening at 20:13 and ending at 21:35 would confirm that.

edit: holy poo poo lol the thread icon.

Grendels Dad fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Mar 22, 2021

# ? Mar 22, 2021 20:12

Piell: Sep 3, 2006; Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer; Young Orc

Grendels Dad posted:

Yeah, and I asked for how long it played in each instance. You have already gone to the effort to include time stamps, my suspicion is that you are a terrible nitpick and the 1st time the wailing happening at 20:13 and ending at 21:35 would confirm that.

No, it lasts only a few seconds each time, they are totally separate things

# ? Mar 22, 2021 20:15

Vintersorg: Mar 3, 2004; President of
the Brendan Fraser
Fan Club

Let's just drop this poo poo already.

# ? Mar 22, 2021 20:16

Grendels Dad: Mar 5, 2011; Popular culture has passed you by.

Piell posted:

No, it lasts maybe 3-5 seconds each time

So hardly noticeable unless you have subtitles on.

Like, I just want to point out that there is no way that you can make me think your complaint isn't overblown and your line of argument isn't stupid. It has been unfair of me to drag this argument along and I will happily stop, I will just say that either you complain about three seconds of tones or about consistent use of music scoring a scene with maybe a break here and there. The post Chairman Capone made on the last page really should have been the last one on the topic.

# ? Mar 22, 2021 20:19

Piell: Sep 3, 2006; Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer; Young Orc

Grendels Dad posted:

So hardly noticeable unless you have subtitles on.

Like, I just want to point out that there is no way that you can make me think your complaint isn't overblown and your line of argument isn't stupid. It has been unfair of me to drag this argument along and I will happily stop, I will just say that either you complain about three seconds of tones or about consistent use of music scoring a scene with maybe a break here and there. The post Chairman Capone made on the last page really should have been the last one on the topic.

It was quite noticeable to me, not because of subtitles but because it's loud wailing that happens basically anytime Wonder Woman or an amazon does anything

# ? Mar 22, 2021 20:20

I Before E: Jul 2, 2012

# ? Mar 22, 2021 20:24

roffels: Jul 27, 2004; Yo Taxi!

MacheteZombie posted:

and we thought aspect ratio chat was bad!

I don't follow the MCU stuff, does Falcon & Winter Soldier get the same ire on these forums for running with a 2.35:1 ratio on a streaming platform?

# ? Mar 22, 2021 20:29

Chairman Capone: Dec 17, 2008

roffels posted:

I don't follow the MCU stuff, does Falcon & Winter Soldier get the same ire on these forums for running with a 2.35:1 ratio on a streaming platform?

No, it's Marvel.

# ? Mar 22, 2021 20:52

stev: Jan 22, 2013; Please be excited.

roffels posted:

I don't follow the MCU stuff, does Falcon & Winter Soldier get the same ire on these forums for running with a 2.35:1 ratio on a streaming platform?

Everyone does this now. :shrug:

They probably intended to premier it cinematically/have special screenings.

Chairman Capone posted:

No, it's Marvel.

Everyone rightly gives Marvel poo poo constantly.

# ? Mar 22, 2021 21:39

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE: Aug 1, 2004; whoa, what just happened here?; College Slice

stev posted:

Everyone rightly gives Marvel poo poo constantly.

Not even at the most pedantic did we delve into the legal mandates of subtitle text.

# ? Mar 22, 2021 22:08

ONE YEAR LATER: Apr 13, 2004; Fry old buddy, it's me, Bender!; Oven Wrangler

roffels posted:

I don't follow the MCU stuff, does Falcon & Winter Soldier get the same ire on these forums for running with a 2.35:1 ratio on a streaming platform?

No we spent 15 pages arguing over Falcons 1099 tax form.

# ? Mar 22, 2021 22:10

Everyone: Sep 6, 2019; by sebmojo

Future Lamentation theme

Not very ancient lamentation theme

Let's make other people lamentate theme

# ? Mar 22, 2021 22:41

Guy A. Person: May 23, 2003

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:

Not even at the most pedantic did we delve into the legal mandates of subtitle text.

Yeah like there's been complaints about F&WS, but this is literally the first time I've even seen that it's in a non-standard ratio, the WandaVision ratio change in episode 3 or 4 was lauded, etc.

# ? Mar 22, 2021 22:55

Mordiceius: Nov 10, 2007; If you think calling me names is gonna get a rise out me, think again. I like my life as an idiot!

I thought the Whedon cut was bad. I thought the Snyder cut was less bad, but I still didn�t like it and felt like the 4 hour run time wasn�t earned and made the entire experience feel like a chore.

I�d prefer never to watch either of them again, but if I had to choose, I�d probably just go with Whedon cut because, while inferior, at least it would be over faster.

# ? Mar 22, 2021 23:03

ungulateman: Apr 18, 2012; pretentious fuckwit who isn't half as literate or insightful or clever as he thinks he is

# ? Mar 23, 2021 00:13

Freakazoid_: Jul 5, 2013; Buglord

Vintersorg posted:

It's just a musical theme for something - it doesn't detract from anything. You're just nitpicking some bullshit cause it's a meme.

Did you cry everytime the Shire cues played throughout LoTR?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pGaz_qN0cw

You picked the worst example to dunk on him with. LotR has a spectacular and unique soundtrack that doesn't wear itself out.

And yes, I DO cry every time.

# ? Mar 23, 2021 00:59

Horizon Burning: Oct 23, 2019

see, here's the thing. you can tell when someone has dredged up their opinions from twitter memes because they get extremely invested in proving that they didn't, for some reason, which is not what people do when it's their sincere opinion.

# ? Mar 23, 2021 01:10

Everyone: Sep 6, 2019; by sebmojo

I started watching the Snyder cut and got as far as Bruce starting his story in the village. It's at least okay, but I don't think I'm in the right mood/mind-frame to watch it all the way through yet. Currently re-watching Fast and Furious 6. Hopefully that doesn't make me a bad person.

# ? Mar 23, 2021 01:30

LesterGroans: Jun 9, 2009; It's funny...

You were so scary at night.

Everyone posted:

I started watching the Snyder cut and got as far as Bruce starting his story in the village. It's at least okay, but I don't think I'm in the right mood/mind-frame to watch it all the way through yet. Currently re-watching Fast and Furious 6. Hopefully that doesn't make me a bad person.

Naw, Fast & Furious 6 rules

# ? Mar 23, 2021 01:31

Jimbot: Jul 22, 2008

Everyone posted:

I started watching the Snyder cut and got as far as Bruce starting his story in the village. It's at least okay, but I don't think I'm in the right mood/mind-frame to watch it all the way through yet. Currently re-watching Fast and Furious 6. Hopefully that doesn't make me a bad person.

Not at all. Same themes between the two, except the Justice League family hasn't quite gotten together yet like Dom's has.

# ? Mar 23, 2021 01:32

RBA Starblade: Apr 28, 2008; Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

Horizon Burning posted:

see, here's the thing. you can tell when someone has dredged up their opinions from twitter memes because they get extremely invested in proving that they didn't, for some reason, which is not what people do when it's their sincere opinion.

Yeah, it's definitely this and not the weirdly aggressive poster insisting instead

# ? Mar 23, 2021 01:32

hmmxkrazee: Sep 9, 2006; why

It was better than the Whedon Cut but I also felt there was just a biiiiit too much slo-mo / ancient lamentation music (and I like most of that stuff that's in Snyder's other movies). I also watched the film split up into like 3 sessions so it wasn't cause of the length.
Some of the lines were kind of rough too.

I did like the additional characterization for Cyborg and especially Steppenwolf. Actually kind of felt bad for him and his puppy dog eyes.

# ? Mar 23, 2021 01:36

Guy A. Person: May 23, 2003

Jimbot posted:

Not at all. Same themes between the two, except the Justice League family hasn't quite gotten together yet like Dom's has.

It does take place over a long day, which they presumably tell Superman about when they see him again

# ? Mar 23, 2021 01:44

Everyone: Sep 6, 2019; by sebmojo

Jimbot posted:

Not at all. Same themes between the two, except the Justice League family hasn't quite gotten together yet like Dom's has.

I'm really looking forward to F9 because I want to see what kind of ridiculous poo poo they're going to do in cars next.

At some point I'm expecting them to do the Trench Run on the Death Star. In cars.

# ? Mar 23, 2021 02:32

Roth: Jul 9, 2016

Freakazoid_ posted:

You picked the worst example to dunk on him with. LotR has a spectacular and unique soundtrack that doesn't wear itself out.

And yes, I DO cry every time.

Neither doez Junkie XL's incredible Justice League soundtrack, Mr. Freakazoid.

# ? Mar 23, 2021 03:04

SuperMechagodzilla: Jun 9, 2007; NEWT REBORN

A major aspect of nerd criticism is to hyper-fixate on a specific detail and argue that that particular detail simply �is� bad. Once you�ve got your foot in the door there, you just repeatedly mention the detail until either people walk away (and therefore concede), or the detail just magically ceases to exist - which, of course, it never will.

What�s conspicuously absent is any interpretation of the detail. Like, does the ancient music make Diana�s spirituality come across as fake? Yeah, probably. None of the �historical events� of the film are even remotely convincing as something that ostensibly actually happened.

But is that a problem? Not really.

# ? Mar 23, 2021 03:20

Snowman_McK: Jan 31, 2010

Piell posted:

In the Wonder Woman bank scene and the Steppenwolf vs Amazon scene it played basically every two minutes, I gave you timecodes

Christ shut the gently caress up about lamentations you loving nerd.

# ? Mar 23, 2021 03:46

Neo Rasa: Mar 8, 2007; Can't post for 39 minutes!

The Amazonian wailing on the soundtrack is used a lot, but there was only one instance towards the end where my brain noticed and thought "wow they overused this a little here"

# ? Mar 23, 2021 04:15

Mechafunkzilla: Sep 11, 2006; If you want a vision of the future...

I think we can all agree that Howard Shore should score some superhero movies

# ? Mar 23, 2021 04:44

Judakel: Jul 29, 2004; Can't post for 9 years!

Burkion posted:

No.

None of this poo poo.

No gimmick posting, no 'but both sides' horse poo poo, no flaccid prolapsed defense of what is one of the worst things to happen to comic book movies in recent history.

This is something that transcends its own thread, this transcends the dome, this belongs here and I am going to loving lay out why. I'm going to lay out exactly why this sentiment is the most brain dead, ill thought out loving nothing statement and you should think twice before engaging with it. You can take it or leave it, I can't make you understand, but I can articulate myself and why I feel the way I do and I loving will.

The Whedon cut keeps the very, VERY rough plot of the movie. It is the story of Batman gathering a League of Justice to combat an evil space man named Steppenwolf who is collecting three boxes to take over the world, and they try to revive Superman.

What it does not capture, what it in fact goes out of its way to remove and belittle, is the very heart and soul of the STORY. A story is more than a plot. The plot ultimately is just a skeleton on which the story builds itself. The organs are the characters, the music, the writing, the connective tissue of tone and intent. You can remove the plot from a movie and still have a good story. It may be flawed, but it can still thrive. The true version of Justice League does far more than thrive.

Divorce Snyder from this, kill the author dead. Take the story for what it is, and you have a beautiful, flawed, and awe inspiring story of Heroes and Villains. This movie understands super heroes better than drat near anything you care to bring to the table. They are achingly human, yet so far beyond that. Modern day mythology, the inheritors of the Gods of old. They are impossible things, beings of great power and violence, yet equal kindness and compassion. They suffer and bleed but still strive to do the best they can for everyone, regardless what it takes from them to do it.

Aquaman is a living God, heir apparent to the greatest kingdom to ever exist on the planet, and he spends his days saving villages from starvation and anyone he can from their own hubris. Despite his great grief over his own heritage, his lingering resentment with his mother, he is still a fundamentally good man. Of course the people of the villages he single handedly feeds and safeguards sing for him- He is their living savior, and they can offer nothing but their love and affection in return.

Wonder Woman is an icon of violence and anger, striking down those who dare stand against her. She takes the lives of mortals without a second thought, because if they are her enemy then their lives truly have no worth. Yet, she is also compassion personified. She checks with those she saved and tries to emphasize with them and make sure they're okay. When they ask her childish questions, she genuinely believes that they can ascend and be great heroes. She wasn't so different from them when she was young, after all. She is the last of the Old Gods, the first of the New.

Victor is a man reborn as something more- and something less. He has the power to end the world as we know it with but a thought, and also to focus on a single individual and uplift them through the cruelty of life. He holds within him the power of creation itself and must learn to accept what he has become- that he is not a mistake, but a product of love. That one would love him so much to stave off death and instead return him to our world greater than any man could be. His story is one of pride and self respect, and the power of forgiveness and understanding. He is the beloved son.

The Flash is awkward, silly, ridiculous. He's nervous and not the most confident. He is also absolutely sure of what he wants in this world and will stop at nothing to have it. Nothing, not even the laws of reality itself, will stop him. It is so easy to write him off as the comic relief, the jokester, but he's not just that. He is brave, willing to do anything, everything. Even in the darkest of moments he will never give up, and instead he runs. He runs even in the face of the impossible. Not to flee, but the opposite. To fight the tides of darkness, he will run to face them. No one can do what he can, and he is one of the greatest of the greats.

Batman is a man spiritually transformed. A man who died as a child, reborn in adulthood through the decency of another. He has realized that men are still good and internalized it. The cynicism, the fever and rage of his immature delusion have broken. He now has an ironclad faith in human nature, in the greatness that people can do. His power is believing in others, in being their pillar and supporting them however he can. They can do more than he can, so he must do all he can for them.

Superman is the greatest of them. Superman is the one who has the farthest to fall. Superman is the man who died to save his world, the child of four parents and two planets, and the one whose belief was rewarded by those he would lay his life down for. Superman lives in us all and can never die so long as we hold faith. And he lives. Look, up in the sky.

It's Superman.

This is who these characters are. This is what they should be. They are more than this, but this is what they are. And they ARE this in the true version of the movie. Do you dislike how silly a village singing for their savior is? That's your problem. That's not a problem with the story. That is sincere and honest- it is a reverence that these characters deserve and ANY self respecting fan of them should honor. Even if you don't like it, you should have the loving decency to acknowledge that it is right. This movie sees the final glory of the Old Gods, it captures the unity of heroes, the perils of combatting death itself and the very end of the world. There is heart ache, pain, joy and love. This is what superhero movies deserve to be. This is what THESE super heroes deserve to be.

The Whedon cut has none of this. It possesses none of the heart, the soul nor wit of the true version of the movie. It is a mean spirited, twisted thing. It cares more about being ugly and spiteful than having anything of quality or substance. Aquaman is an angry jerk, Wonder Woman is a belittling, disillusioned mother hen, Batman is an untrusting, insulting rear end in a top hat, the Flash is an incompetent coward who needs to have his hand held to do anything, Superman is a smug fuckwad who seems to hold everyone and everything in contempt and Victor gets to say booyah.

You want to talk about the problems the movie has? Let's. I'd love to. loving let's go.

Do not dare compare these two. One tries and largely succeeds at capturing what is great about super heroes in a way few have dared to dream in cinema. The other is a poo poo Joss Whedon hackjob that adds nothing and takes away everything. There is nothing good it adds. Nothing new. The soundtrack is so bland and lifeless that, despite having some of the classic themes of cinematic superheroes, nothing stands out. It all blends together and is the same mushy grey mess that the rest of the film devolves into.

And then you get to goddamn mother-loving Steppenwolf.

What a travesty of a thing Whedon did.

Heroes are only as good as their villains. Its why the MCU suffers so much in my eyes.

Steppenwolf is a villain who stands the gently caress out. He doesn't do much, but he is empathetic, understandable, even sympathetic despite his actions and goals. He simply wants to be loved again. He is a dog who wants his master to stop being angry at him for making GBS threads on the carpet. He seeks redemption just the same as the heroes. He seeks acceptance. But because of who he loves, because of who he is trying to return to, he must be a monster and wage a war he cares nothing about.

The League don't care, nor should they. He is horrific, with the consequences of his actions being more dire than they even realize. But WE do. We see his pleading eyes. We hear the snide dismissal of those he seeks the approval of. We follow his journey for redemption, just the same as any of the heroes. And in the true version of the story, it is a journey. He arrives in combat with the Amazons and quests to find the remaining boxes so that he may claim the ultimate prize- the love and approval of his family.

When he is told that these people have families, he acknowledges what is true about him, himself. That means they have weakness. His armor is reflective of his mood, shifting and changing to match him. Smoothing when he's calm, flaring up when he's angry or scared- vanishing when he's submissive. It's extremely good, characterful stuff.

You want to talk about what's good and bad, let's have a loving discussion.

But you try to compare these two in any way that isn't 'this was a travesty done to the history of cinema' and that's not a discussion.

That's you showing your loving rear end.

Whatever its flaws, Zack Snyder's Justice League loves superheroes and it wants you to know that. It wants you to feel that.

The Whedon cut just wants to be lovely for two hours and then give up.

That's great, but Snyder's cut is self-indulgent and the second half is pretty bad. Everyone knows how bad Whedon's cut was, but Snyder's isn't a good movie.

# ? Mar 23, 2021 04:48

2house2fly: Nov 14, 2012; You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

The second half is the best half. The Steppenwolf fight is the second best final battle in a comic book movie, after Man Of Steel

# ? Mar 23, 2021 04:50

LesterGroans: Jun 9, 2009; It's funny...

You were so scary at night.

Judakel posted:

That's great, but Snyder's cut is self-indulgent and the second half is pretty bad. Everyone knows how bad Whedon's cut was, but Snyder's isn't a good movie.

No, it actually is good.

# ? Mar 23, 2021 04:50

Vintersorg: Mar 3, 2004; President of
the Brendan Fraser
Fan Club

Freakazoid_ posted:

You picked the worst example to dunk on him with. LotR has a spectacular and unique soundtrack that doesn't wear itself out.

And yes, I DO cry every time.

Cry as in whine about subtitles going [shire theme]. No tears.

But I cried every time it came up too as it was usually during emotional Sam moments.

# ? Mar 23, 2021 04:52

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# ? Apr 19, 2024 12:42

Judakel: Jul 29, 2004; Can't post for 9 years!

LesterGroans posted:

No, it actually is good.

No, I don't think so.

# ? Mar 23, 2021 04:52

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Comic Book Movies: The day the Batgirl Cried

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