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The biggest factor with Zibanejad is whether or not the Rangers can find another center. They currently have him and Strome, both destined for UFA at age 29 in 2022. After those two, they have Chytil and Howden, and not much depth in the system at that position. They almost *have* to deal from their depth at other positions to get a center by next summer.
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Mar 22, 2021 21:24
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https://twitter.com/PR_NHL/status/1374126060883881986
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Mar 22, 2021 23:33
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Goddammit, we *told* them to stay out of the peelers' on Rue Ste. Cath!
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Mar 22, 2021 23:49
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https://twitter.com/DarrenDreger/status/1374132162379808773 e: https://twitter.com/PierreVLeBrun/status/1374140672618459138 Kilza fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Mar 22, 2021 23:54
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The Habs are being punished by the Gods for not winning in regulation; I'm sure it has nothing to do with their lax social distancing / mask protocols.
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Mar 23, 2021 00:51
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MoaM posted:The Habs are being punished by the Gods for not winning in regulation; I'm sure it has nothing to do with their lax social distancing / mask protocols. Everybody knows that the odds of contracting covid spike dramatically after an initial 60 minutes of contact. Really, Montreal acting responsibly by having games end as quickly as possible once OT rolled around.
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Mar 23, 2021 01:12
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fawning deference posted:Two is that teams want to win. If they overpay Zibanejad by $500K a year, or if they give him two years too long, but their chances of winning a Cup with his production level being high extends for the next 3 or 4 years, that is usually worth it, in the eyes of owners, GM's, players, and fans. Overpayment on one probably 2C and then whatever Strome is probably doesn't get the Rangers any closer to a cup and probably not even the postseason. Ideally they deal both of them for players that address their needs and are younger/ futures that push them much closer vs continued mediocrity.
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Mar 23, 2021 01:23
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IMO Zibanejad is not, and will probably never be, good enough to be the second or third best player on a Cup team, which is what you need to be if you're going to make $7+M/year over a long term. I might be overestimating the market for him though and maybe he'll re-sign for like 6x6 which is probably fine.
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Mar 23, 2021 01:30
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rex rabidorum vires posted:Overpayment on one probably 2C and then whatever Strome is probably doesn't get the Rangers any closer to a cup and probably not even the postseason. Ideally they deal both of them for players that address their needs and are younger/ futures that push them much closer vs continued mediocrity. Strome is definitely gone. I'm assuming they let him walk because his value will never be what it is playing with Panarin. If they lose Strome and Zibanejad and their center depth is Chytil/Howden/nobody else that is a disaster. If you're a team owner, are you really going to not give a great player maybe a million more than you think he's worth so you can keep your core together and try to win a Cup over the next few years? Especially since the cap will be flat or near-flat for the near future and the market for players has come down considerably, to the point where Mike Hoffman could only get a last-minute 1 year $4m deal. Zibanejad is probably looking at what Eric the Mauve posted, something like 6x6, and I think he's worth that contract.
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Mar 23, 2021 01:44
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Getting Mika at 6x6 with the excuse “sorry flat cap so we can’t give more” would be amazing
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Mar 23, 2021 01:47
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Eric the Mauve posted:IMO Zibanejad is not, and will probably never be, good enough to be the second or third best player on a Cup team, which is what you need to be if you're going to make $7+M/year over a long term. After Panarin and Fox, who is better than Zibanejad on the Rangers (I know, he had a terrible start this year, but he's been excellent lately and last season he was incredible)? Maybe Shesterkin but he hasn't been doing it for long enough. 41 goals in 57 doesn't scream "he will never be good enough to be a core piece of a Cup winner" to me.
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Mar 23, 2021 01:47
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Also, again, who do you replace him with through free agency? Anyone you would trade for as a replacement would require sending young pieces back, and there's no center in free agency that season, of which I remember, that is close to as good as he is. The Rangers would be looking at a massive lineup hole without Z.
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Mar 23, 2021 01:50
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fawning deference posted:After Panarin and Fox, who is better than Zibanejad on the Rangers (I know, he had a terrible start this year, but he's been excellent lately and last season he was incredible)? Maybe Shesterkin but he hasn't been doing it for long enough. 41 goals in 57 doesn't scream "he will never be good enough to be a core piece of a Cup winner" to me. I would agree with this statement. You could maybe make a case for Buch as of late but he didn’t have the credentials last year. I am also taking Zibby over Buch every day of the week.
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Mar 23, 2021 01:51
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I said a Cup team, not the 2021 New York Rangers. If he's the second or third best player on a team that probably will not make the playoffs that tends to prove my assertion that he isn't worth the 7x8 his agent will be asking for. "We have to dramatically overpay for this player because we have no depth at his position" is a great way to find yourself on a hamster wheel of mediocrity. Overpaying one player in a flat cap environment is going to exacerbate your depth problems. A much better argument for overpaying for a very good/not great player who is 28 years old is "we are already close to a Cup but sorely lacking the specific role he would fill" which is not where the Rangers are, IMO. "We are the New York Rangers and we can't let star players walk for image/marketing reasons" is in some ways a valid argument but I actually do think there's a very good chance Eichel will soon become available to solve that problem--assuming they have the cap space to make that trade without gutting their depth. Which giving Zibanejad a megacontract would not help with. Flipping him for futures which could then be packaged into the Eichel deal and/or used to build around Eichel would. Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Mar 23, 2021 01:53
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Eric the Mauve posted:I said a Cup team, not the 2021 New York Rangers. If he's the second or third best player on a team that probably will not make the playoffs that tends to prove my assertion that he isn't worth the 7x8 his agent will be asking for. I still think you're wrong. Zibanejad last year was unbelievably good, and the year before that he was almost a point-per-game all-situations center. This year he's finally reaching his stride and he's been great. Zibanejad is better than "very good" and could absolutely be a 2C for a Cup contender. Also, I didn't say "dramatically overpay." I'm not talking about giving him a blank check. I just think it's a bad idea to let him walk over a slight overpayment of a contract, especially since they can't guarantee that they will be able to replace him with anyone. If Eichel happens, he's as good as gone, but until it does, you don't just hope you can find another point-per-game center somehow. We don't know the type of deal he'll sign so this is all a bit moot, but I thought I would come to the defense of a really good player.
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Mar 23, 2021 01:58
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Eric the Mauve posted:I said a Cup team, not the 2021 New York Rangers. If he's the second or third best player on a team that probably will not make the playoffs that tends to prove my assertion that he isn't worth the 7x8 his agent will be asking for. As with everything I suppose it depends on what the ask is. I guess the good news is they can always kicks the tires on Eichel this summer and proceed depending on the response.
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Mar 23, 2021 01:59
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Eric the Mauve posted:A much better argument for overpaying for a very good/not great player who is 28 years old is "we are already close to a Cup but sorely lacking the specific role he would fill" which is not where the Rangers are, IMO. Losing Strome and Z would bring them from being a couple of years away from potentially being a real contender with the development of their young players to taking a significant step back in their process.
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Mar 23, 2021 01:59
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fawning deference posted:Also, I didn't say "dramatically overpay." I'm not talking about giving him a blank check. I just think it's a bad idea to let him walk over a slight overpayment of a contract, especially since they can't guarantee that they will be able to replace him with anyone. If Eichel happens, he's as good as gone, but until it does, you don't just hope you can find another point-per-game center somehow. I think the main thing I'm disagreeing about is the difference between 6x6ish and 7x8ish--I think it's a very big (in this case dealbreaking) difference, you think it's no big deal. That's fair, maybe I'm wrong about that, but cap space is such a precious commodity, and a GM that thinks that kind of difference is never worth walking away from a deal over is pretty likely to find himself in cap hell before long. Then again, a GM that lets a player as good as Zibanejad walk away over one year and a couple million puts himself a bad two-month stretch away from finding himself unemployed. Being a GM is really hard. Maybe not quite as hard as Benning makes it look, but it's pretty hard! Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Mar 23, 2021 02:01
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Eric the Mauve posted:I think the main thing I'm disagreeing about is the difference between 6x6ish and 7x8ish--I think it's a very big (in this case dealbreaking) difference, you think it's no big deal. That's fair, maybe I'm wrong about that, but cap space is such a precious commodity, and a GM that thinks that kind of difference is never worth walking away from a deal over is pretty likely to find himself in cap hell before long. That IS a significant difference. I don't think Zibanejad is worth 7 years $8 million and in this current economy, he's not going to get it. Do I think the Rangers should let him walk if he wants 6.8 over 5 years or 6 over 6? No.
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Mar 23, 2021 02:04
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Yeah if he can be had for like 5x7 or 6x6.3 that's fine. But it only takes one (1) of the other 31 teams deciding they really want Mika Zibanejad to drive the price up into that 7x7.8 range where you're put to a difficult decision. Realistically it might be fair to observe that I'm caring about term a lot more than an actual GM is incentivized to--he personally almost certainly won't be around in 5-6 years when the contract turns into an untradeable albatross and a buyout candidate.
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Mar 23, 2021 02:06
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Eric the Mauve posted:Yeah if he can be had for like 5x7 or 6x6.3 that's fine. But it only takes one (1) of the other 31 teams deciding they really want Mika Zibanejad to drive the price up into that 7x7.8 range where you're put to a difficult decision. Totally fair, and I agree. I just don't think teams are falling all over themselves to spend big bucks on players right now. If next off-season is anything near this last one, it's going to be tough for Z to get leverage in negotiations.
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Mar 23, 2021 02:09
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The only teams with the cap space to put that kind of money down on him are in full rebuild mode anyway.
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Mar 23, 2021 02:10
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Lol at the idea of letting zbad walk because he had a down year in the chaos covid season.
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Mar 23, 2021 02:20
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fawning deference posted:Also, again, who do you replace him with through free agency? Anyone you would trade for as a replacement would require sending young pieces back, and there's no center in free agency that season, of which I remember, that is close to as good as he is. The Rangers would be looking at a massive lineup hole without Z. Shooting 20% can do astonishing things. Just ask William Karlsson. Unironcally if Mika Z is the best you can do the Rangers aren't going to move forward and instead stall out before nose diving. Can't get Eichel? You're better off going to Nashville and seeing if you can get Duchene with retained. Can't get that? Well everyone must go except like 4 dudes get a defenseman or scoring winger idk. No center in UFA? loving Aleksander Barkov could be UFA. Huge upgrade. Courturier. Old men Malkin/Bergy. All probably better options than giving 7 million plus to Mika.
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Mar 23, 2021 02:26
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Cocaine Bear posted:Lol at the idea of letting zbad walk because he had a down year in the chaos covid season. I'm not saying he's having a down year I'm saying the last 2 seasons for him are statistical outliers not based on good underlying metrics.
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Mar 23, 2021 02:29
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rex rabidorum vires posted:Shooting 20% can do astonishing things. Just ask William Karlsson. Unironcally if Mika Z is the best you can do the Rangers aren't going to move forward and instead stall out before nose diving. Can't get Eichel? You're better off going to Nashville and seeing if you can get Duchene with retained. Can't get that? Well everyone must go except like 4 dudes get a defenseman or scoring winger idk. No center in UFA? loving Aleksander Barkov could be UFA. Huge upgrade. Courturier. Old men Malkin/Bergy. All probably better options than giving 7 million plus to Mika. Is this a real post?
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Mar 23, 2021 02:30
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I think the most plausible assumption is that he is roughly the player he was in 2018-19: about a .9 PPG center who doesn't pass quite as well as you'd like a center to, but backchecks and is useful on the PK. That's a really good player! It's just not a guy you want to pay huge for his age 29-36 seasons. He did spend 7 years being not nearly that good before 2018-19, of course, but most of that was with Ottawa so it's reasonable to assume the improvement after a couple years of detoxing the Ottawa out of his system is real. Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Mar 23, 2021 02:34
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The Philadelphia Flyers are dogshit garbage.
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Mar 23, 2021 02:34
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Cocaine Bear posted:Lol at the idea of letting zbad walk because he had a down year in the chaos covid season. Yep. Even with this weird season, he has 21 points in 31 games and actually has 24 in his last 23. He could definitely finish with good numbers. And yes he had a 6 point game, so if you take out that one, he still has 18 points in his last 22 games, which is still very good. Even if he had shot at 12% (more his norm) in his big season, he still would have been a point-per-game. He's more or less been a point-per-game all situations center for 3 consecutive seasons.
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Mar 23, 2021 02:35
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rex rabidorum vires posted:I'm not saying he's having a down year I'm saying the last 2 seasons for him are statistical outliers not based on good underlying metrics. Wrong is wrong. Zbad owns and he's gonna be great wherever if the rags are dumb enough to let him walk over a mil and a year overpay.
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Mar 23, 2021 02:35
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Surprisingly Chris Kreider is leading the East in goals over even Ovechkin and Pastrnak.
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Mar 23, 2021 02:37
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Eric the Mauve posted:I think the most plausible assumption is that he is roughly the player he was in 2018-19: about a .9 PPG center who doesn't pass quite as well as you'd like a center to, but backchecks and is useful on the PK. That's a really good player! It's just not a guy you want to pay huge for his age 29-36 seasons. Yep. I think the takes of "he shouldn't get a mammoth gigantoid contract" make sense but also, we aren't going to see huge contracts like that next year. This season royally hosed the economy and we've already seen the demand to pay players take a nosedive. Nobody is giving Zibanejad $60 million. He's going to be really good for a handsome majority of a 5 or 6 year deal at 6-7 million.
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Mar 23, 2021 02:39
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fawning deference posted:Is this a real post? Which part do you have an issue(s) with? That Begry or Malkin could be more productive from UFA for the $$$ vs Mika or that I think trading either Zib or Strome for Duchene would be a good idea.
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Mar 23, 2021 02:40
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I hate this team so much
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Mar 23, 2021 02:41
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Sorokin is in another dimension right now
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Mar 23, 2021 02:42
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rex rabidorum vires posted:Which part do you have an issue(s) with? That Begry or Malkin could be more productive from UFA for the $$$ vs Mika or that I think trading either Zib or Strome for Duchene would be a good idea. Matt Duchene for $8m into the neverending future being better than extending Zibanejad for less is a laugher.
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Mar 23, 2021 02:43
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Cocaine Bear posted:Wrong is wrong. Zbad owns and he's gonna be great wherever if the rags are dumb enough to let him walk over a mil and a year overpay. If the premise is that Strome is walking either way overpayment for Mika doesn't fix that. I don't disagree he is an extremely good and useful player. Paying him 7.5+ for that isn't going to help the Rangers progress though.
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Mar 23, 2021 02:45
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rex rabidorum vires posted:Which part do you have an issue(s) with? That Begry or Malkin could be more productive from UFA for the $$$ vs Mika or that I think trading either Zib or Strome for Duchene would be a good idea. Malkin isn't going to hit free agency, but if he did he would get a fuckload more than Zibanejad because he is (or, perhaps, used to be) Evgeni fuckin' Malkin. Not as much term but some team would give him $9M/year for 4 years or some poo poo just based on Marketing's dreams of jersey sales.
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Mar 23, 2021 02:49
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The flyers play 50 minutes of a good game and blow it late thanks to lovely special teams and more turnovers? I am absolutely shocked and also stunned and even gobsmacked.
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Mar 23, 2021 02:55
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Someone please post a clip of Hajeck skating backwards with the puck behind him because I need to relive that amazingness a few more times.
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Mar 23, 2021 02:55
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