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bushisms.txt
May 26, 2004

Scroll, then. There are other posts than these.


Grimdude posted:

Idk, but I thought it was funny that she opted to super-speed block every round coming out of an automatic weapon instead of maybe just charging the dude with the gun before he can even fire/switch firing modes. They really built up the tension there and I remember just laughing at the resolution.

Pretty sure there's a cut to a dude who got killed by a ricochet

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Martman
Nov 20, 2006

bushisms.txt posted:

Pretty sure there's a cut to a dude who got killed by a ricochet
She has a 5% chance on every block to trigger a special Ricochet Ultra Gore Kill

Grimdude
Sep 25, 2006

It was a shame how he carried on

Necrothatcher posted:

I bet you didn't laugh and only thought of this later.

No? I did in fact laugh when Wonder Woman fast-forwarded herself to block every round from a full auto spray.

Augus
Mar 9, 2015


it was super cool

bushisms.txt
May 26, 2004

Scroll, then. There are other posts than these.


Martman posted:

She has a 5% chance on every block to trigger a special Ricochet Ultra Gore Kill

For real, we only noticed cause there's wall blood spatter and a dude slumped for a second and we were like how did that happen?

Counteresperanto
Jun 15, 2007

Achievement is its' own reward. Pride obscures it.

Zaphod42 posted:

She's exceptionally evil, but I have ALWAYS hated her character design in comics and in animated incarnations.

The whole thing is just like "lol what if a cute old grandma was super evil wouldn't that be wacky?" comics are weird and try a lot of different things.

She does have a whole backstory yeah but its... eh.

I would say Granny Goodness is not meant to be wacky at all, nor meant to be mistaken as cute or grandmotherly. Instead she is derived from the likes of Mrs. Mann from Oliver Twist.

Mrs. Mann was a supervisor of Oliver and the other children at the orphanage, where she beat them or starved them as suited her whim. Mrs. Mann is also specifically mentioned to be elderly.

"Evil orphanage matriarch" is sort of an archetype, though a bit dated and not so common anymore. Granny fits the archetype, and neither her behavior, not appearance, is subversive. As gods are often living embodiments of specific archetypes, it is probably right to say that Granny is the living embodiment of this particular form of evil: Child abuse.

I suppose that, like Granny, most of the characters from Apokalips are embodiments of a archetypical form of evil. Much has been said about Darkseid's relationship with fascism in this thread already. Glorious Godfrey was a pretty minor character in Kirby's stories, based maybe on televangelists of the time, but his brand of evil is nearly omni-present now. Hannity and Carlson are his modern disciples. However, I can't say that I know which archetypes "prussian general" and "renaissance assassin" might be trying to tap into.

While Mrs. Mann is shown to not care about the children at all, Granny is at least sometimes shown to have a twisted sense of caring towards those she supervises. For although she abuses and torments the children in her care, until they know the feeling of powerlessness that turns good children cruel, being cruel is the only way to survive on Apokalips. Compassion, hope... That stuff will just end up getting you killed. Better to beat it out of them while they're young. If that is what Granny thinks love is, then perhaps it is best that love is in such short supply on their world.

As to her appearance, well, she's hardly beguiling. Kirby draws her with thin black lips and a wide mouth like a fish or a frog. Obviously his art is very stylized, but I did a quick google image search and in no instance, even though by many different artists, did I find any drawings of Granny where she could be mistaken for cute or kindly. Check out some pictures of Donald Trump's mother. She has the cruel face and strange big hair that could be Granny Goodness made real.

I also like that she does not have the standard comic book female body type. In spite of her portliness, she is still shown to be strong and a capable warrior, only that her endurance may not be as great as it once was. Snyder's Granny has obviously moved away from this appearance. She's taller and slender now. If such a change was made in comic books, I would regard that change with cynicism. However, I think Snyder's intentions here deserve the benefit of the doubt.

That sure is a lot of words about Granny Goodness. It's much more than I intended to write. I suppose when I read the somewhat dismissive appraisal of Granny, it reminded me of when I first learned of the character. Back then I thought "Fat, old lady? Boring!"

Since then I've done a complete turnaround, and I think she's one of the best New Gods.

Changing the subject, I wonder why Steppenwolf was chosen instead of Kalibak? "Strong idiot who desperately desires Darkseid's approval" is totally Kalibak's thing, and Darkseid is his actual father. In comics, Steppenwolf is Darkseid's uncle.

Invalid Validation
Jan 13, 2008




I’ve seen a couple of animated movies cause I wasn’t a big comic book nerd and her and aquaman basically seem on the level of Superman, maybe just slightly less godlike but not by much.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

Counteresperanto posted:

I would say Granny Goodness is not meant to be wacky at all, nor meant to be mistaken as cute or grandmotherly. Instead she is derived from the likes of Mrs. Mann from Oliver Twist.

I guess, as with anything in comics, it depends upon the author and incarnation you're talking about. The original design is probably much more of Mrs. Mann or like Nurse Ratchet like you're saying, but I feel like the animated JL / Superman version of her was very "Heeeeeere's granny!" which was pretty wacky. And then more modern takes on her in the comics and animated incarnations do tend to tone down the black fish lips and make her look more like a normal grandmother. But either way, just her appearance and the way she talks, ugh. I mean, either way, its uncomfortable and weird, which is the point. But maybe wacky is the wrong word.

Her backstory with Darkseid and the dog is definitely extremely 'grim'.

MacheteZombie
Feb 4, 2007

Counteresperanto posted:

I wonder why Steppenwolf was chosen instead of Kalibak? "Strong idiot who desperately desires Darkseid's approval" is totally Kalibak's thing, and Darkseid is his actual father. In comics, Steppenwolf is Darkseid's uncle.

My only guess is that ZS wanted to use the higher profile darkseid cronies for jl2/3. Since JL1 was always supposed to have a triumphant (even in a fleeting sense) feel he wanted someone that wouldn't be missed. Poor Steppy, no respect.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

Invalid Validation posted:

I’ve seen a couple of animated movies cause I wasn’t a big comic book nerd and her and aquaman basically seem on the level of Superman, maybe just slightly less godlike but not by much.

It depends upon the setting, but generally yeah WW and Aquaman are pretty dang tough, although Aquaman can't fly and neither WW nor Aquaman can survive in space IIRC, which Superman can. (And Green Lantern)

Superman's also just got like way more powers than everybody else though lmao. He's so OP.

Counteresperanto posted:

Changing the subject, I wonder why Steppenwolf was chosen instead of Kalibak? "Strong idiot who desperately desires Darkseid's approval" is totally Kalibak's thing, and Darkseid is his actual father. In comics, Steppenwolf is Darkseid's uncle.

Steppenwolf is lamer so you can kill him off, where Kalibak has a very interesting relationship with Darkseid so you want to keep him around to play off Darkseid in the future.

...did Steppenwolf die in the movie, come to think of it? Or did he boom out? I was drunk and it was like 6 AM.

MacheteZombie
Feb 4, 2007

Zaphod42 posted:


...did Steppenwolf die in the movie, come to think of it? Or did he boom out? I was drunk and it was like 6 AM.

Lol

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!
Yeah, he gets pwned. Superman beats the poo poo out of him while Cyborg is taking apart the Unity, then when he stands up he roars at them and is ready to keep fighting- then Aquaman impales him on his trident (his armour is basically punched off by this point) then Superman punches him through the open portal to Darkseid, and on his way through Wonder Woman decapitates him. His head rolls over to Darkseid, who stomps on it

smoobles
Sep 4, 2014

2house2fly posted:

Yeah, he gets pwned. Superman beats the poo poo out of him while Cyborg is taking apart the Unity, then when he stands up he roars at them and is ready to keep fighting- then Aquaman impales him on his trident (his armour is basically punched off by this point) then Superman punches him through the open portal to Darkseid, and on his way through Wonder Woman decapitates him. His head rolls over to Darkseid, who stomps on it

I laughed so hard at how brutal that whole sequence was. Like... he's dead, guys. You did it.

I don't blame the goon who couldn't remember whether Steppenwolf died, by the last hour of this movie I felt like I was dissociating. This film was literally the length of half a work day.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!
Darkseid like "no, he still isn't dead enough"

Augus
Mar 9, 2015


smoobles posted:

Zack Snyder treats every movie he's directed as if it's the most important film of all time. If you disagree that what your watching is important, it's gonna feel self absorbed, operatic and "grimdark". Everything is grand, over the top, and untethered from reality. None of these characters are supposed to be realistic, they're supposed to be gods and the films are supposed to be American mythology. Contrast that with Avengers where the whole point is them being relatable and flawed to the point where Tony Stark gives up being Ironman in like 3 different movies.

didn't avengers 2 literally end with the avengers being immortalized as marble statues like the greek gods

Chairman Capone
Dec 17, 2008

Mr. Apollo posted:

In WW she's grazed by a bullet on the beach but heals up by the time the Amazonian doctor looks at it. The doctor seems surprised by how quickly she healed so I guess we can assume that she's never sustained any real injuries her entire life. Although, in WW84 both Diana and Steve are surprised when she started to bleed from the bullets fired from the armored car during the desert chase scene.

Isn't an Amazonian killed by being shot by a German in that WW scene?

Darko
Dec 23, 2004

Zaphod42 posted:

It depends upon the setting, but generally yeah WW and Aquaman are pretty dang tough, although Aquaman can't fly and neither WW nor Aquaman can survive in space IIRC, which Superman can. (And Green Lantern)

Superman's also just got like way more powers than everybody else though lmao. He's so OP.


Except for The Flash, who is the most broken. There's a reason Snyder kept much of his powers intact and found a way to remove him from the final battle.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

2house2fly posted:

Yeah, he gets pwned. Superman beats the poo poo out of him while Cyborg is taking apart the Unity, then when he stands up he roars at them and is ready to keep fighting- then Aquaman impales him on his trident (his armour is basically punched off by this point) then Superman punches him through the open portal to Darkseid, and on his way through Wonder Woman decapitates him. His head rolls over to Darkseid, who stomps on it

Ah yeah I thought so, now I remember it.

Darko posted:

Except for The Flash, who is the most broken. There's a reason Snyder kept much of his powers intact and found a way to remove him from the final battle.

Its true. Speedsters are the most OP possible.

Flash > Superman > WW/Aquaman/Lantern (arguable) >>>>>>>>> Batman

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Zaphod42 posted:


...did Steppenwolf die in the movie, come to think of it? Or did he boom out? I was drunk and it was like 6 AM.

drat much like Suicide Squad the direction so bad many did not even notice the death of one of the film's major characters.


2house2fly posted:

Darkseid like "no, he still isn't dead enough"

I loved that. I think that's part of why they used him instead of Kalibak too. Just so they'd have a potentially world-ending person, but someone who is clearly NOT getting any actual backup from Darkseid, he just like stumbles into a potential instant-win when he realizes the mother boxes are there and tries to control it. The Justice League all being at the point where they're willing to do anything including potentially die if they have to to save the earth (following Superman's example) lets them kick Steppenwolf's rear end.

Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Mar 23, 2021

KVeezy3
Aug 18, 2005

Airport Music for Black Folk
That reminds me, Superman psychotically smiling while beating down Steppenwolf will always be a black mark on this film for me. I get the part where he's happy to be back and dodging Steppenwolf's blows, but the other parts are just unsettling. Too light-happy, not my superman, etc.

Mr. Apollo
Nov 8, 2000

Chairman Capone posted:

Isn't an Amazonian killed by being shot by a German in that WW scene?
Yup, she gets shot in the stomach while she's swinging down to the beach from the cliffs above.

Grimdude
Sep 25, 2006

It was a shame how he carried on

Neo Rasa posted:

drat much like Suicide Squad the direction so bad many did not even notice the death of one of the film's major characters.

I mean, it sounds like the way you miss this is by watching it drunk at 6 AM. That and/or I guess just not paying attention at all? I don't know how you could watch that movie and not know he died at the end otherwise. Seems unfair to blame the direction, also to compare it to Suicide Squad.

*Doesn't pay attention to half the movie, spends a good portion browsing poo poo on their phone*
"This movie sucks! Who is that? I can't even tell what's happening."

Grimdude fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Mar 23, 2021

Robot Style
Jul 5, 2009

KVeezy3 posted:

That reminds me, Superman psychotically smiling while beating down Steppenwolf will always be a black mark on this film for me. I get the part where he's happy to be back and dodging Steppenwolf's blows, but the other parts are just unsettling. Too light-happy, not my superman, etc.

Any moments in particular come to mind? The only times I can remember him actually smiling are his smirk when he no-sells the axe, and when he dodges Steppenwolf's slow-mo grab. The rest from my recollection are angry-eyes or CG Neutral-face.

Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006

Zaphod42 posted:

She's exceptionally evil, but I have ALWAYS hated her character design in comics and in animated incarnations.

The whole thing is just like "lol what if a cute old grandma was super evil wouldn't that be wacky?" comics are weird and try a lot of different things.

She does have a whole backstory yeah but its... eh.
The Apokolipian New Gods are kind of insidious in the comics. I think they're the most interesting when they aren't just pounding people into submission, but just providing the noose for mankind to hang itself, convincing people to give up their freedoms. I think Granny's design sort of leans into that. It's not just that she's an evil monster, but she's an evil monster who is going to make you dependent on her and even maybe think you love her. I think the design works.

I feel like the Snyder design is kind of a bummer although who knows if she was ever intended to be a character. I find it at least interesting that Snyder was going for a sense of the New Gods as a species, but Granny is a generic white lady. I feel like you could take the basic look of the Desaad, Darkseid, Steppenwolf and make a kind of weird cross between a muppet and a Miyazaki witch that would be dope.

KVeezy3
Aug 18, 2005

Airport Music for Black Folk

Robot Style posted:

Any moments in particular come to mind? The only times I can remember him actually smiling are his smirk when he no-sells the axe, and when he dodges Steppenwolf's slow-mo grab. The rest from my recollection are angry-eyes or CG Neutral-face.

Hmm maybe I'm crazy, because it's those two specific moments you cited that I thought were perfectly fine.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:
Wonder Woman is more durable than the other Amazons because IIRC in the earliest iterations of her movie she was going to be Ares' daughter and literally descended from the gods, not just made from clay. So even the other Amazons IIRC are surprised at how she heals up faster/has the wrist gauntlet bwoosh attack and so on.



I think a connection we were intended to make with the bracers and when she can do the energy blast is that it absorbs energy from attacks. Batman and Wonder Woman have clearly been working together since the end of BVS and the new gauntlets Alfred makes for him are clearly inspired by Wonder Woman's bracers, i.e., once they absorb enough force and are ready to pop you have to let it go in the nearish future and can't just hold onto it forever.

Wonder Woman blocks all the bullets during the terrorist attack scene which lets her do the blast.




KVeezy3 posted:

That reminds me, Superman psychotically smiling while beating down Steppenwolf will always be a black mark on this film for me. I get the part where he's happy to be back and dodging Steppenwolf's blows, but the other parts are just unsettling. Too light-happy, not my superman, etc.

Steppenwolf is so clearly a chickenshit, I love it. He always enters the scene high on his own bullshit but whenever the Justice League starts to work together he teleports out like a punk despite him being so powerful.

I can understand Superman's relative happiness here. His "Not. Impressed." entrance was so good and to me meant he hung back a little bit to assess what this guy was all about. I saw his smiling less as psychotic and more like him realizing "THIS was the I was worried about fighting?"

teagone
Jun 10, 2003

That was pretty intense, huh?

Timeless Appeal posted:

I feel like the Snyder design is kind of a bummer

I don't think continuity of costume design and general aesthetic is something the DC films are concerned with tbh. Aquaman is the follow up film to ZSJL, and look how different those films look from one another lol. I'm sure Ava DuVernay's New Gods film will be aesthetically wild.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

teagone posted:

I don't think continuity of costume design and general aesthetic is something the DC films are concerned with tbh. Aquaman is the follow up film to ZSJL, and look how different those films look from one another lol. I'm sure Ava DuVernay's New Gods film will be aesthetically wild.

I'm like insanely hype for this.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

Grimdude posted:

I mean, it sounds like the way you miss this is by watching it drunk at 6 AM. That and/or I guess just not paying attention at all? I don't know how you could watch that movie and not know he died at the end otherwise. Seems unfair to blame the direction, also to compare it to Suicide Squad.

*Doesn't pay attention to half the movie, spends a good portion browsing poo poo on their phone*
"This movie sucks! Who is that? I can't even tell what's happening."

I have to imagine that post was a joke dude, lighten up.

Timeless Appeal posted:

The Apokolipian New Gods are kind of insidious in the comics. I think they're the most interesting when they aren't just pounding people into submission, but just providing the noose for mankind to hang itself, convincing people to give up their freedoms. I think Granny's design sort of leans into that. It's not just that she's an evil monster, but she's an evil monster who is going to make you dependent on her and even maybe think you love her. I think the design works.

I feel like the Snyder design is kind of a bummer although who knows if she was ever intended to be a character. I find it at least interesting that Snyder was going for a sense of the New Gods as a species, but Granny is a generic white lady. I feel like you could take the basic look of the Desaad, Darkseid, Steppenwolf and make a kind of weird cross between a muppet and a Miyazaki witch that would be dope.

A Miyazaki Witch styled alien Granny sounds way more interesting to me!

KVeezy3
Aug 18, 2005

Airport Music for Black Folk

Neo Rasa posted:

I can understand Superman's relative happiness here. His "Not. Impressed." entrance was so good and to me meant he hung back a little bit to assess what this guy was all about. I saw his smiling less as psychotic and more like him realizing "THIS was the I was worried about fighting?"

Yeah, I agree that that part as well as his slow mo dodge of Steppenwolf's fist while staring at it is great. I admit that I might be having a full-on "Superman makes a weird fist in Man of Steel" moment here.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.

Neo Rasa posted:

I'm like insanely hype for this.

I have my misgivings about Ava DuVernay but yeah that's a really good match of talent to subject matter.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Grimdude posted:

I mean, it sounds like the way you miss this is by watching it drunk at 6 AM. That and/or I guess just not paying attention at all? I don't know how you could watch that movie and not know he died at the end otherwise. Seems unfair to blame the direction, also to compare it to Suicide Squad.

*Doesn't pay attention to half the movie, spends a good portion browsing poo poo on their phone*
"This movie sucks! Who is that? I can't even tell what's happening."

Sorry this was a joke about a post someone in and earlier DC thread who was dying on the hill of where they felt that most viewers of Suicide Squad did not notice when El Diablo died :lol:

gregday
May 23, 2003

I did not like this movie but if this is what it had to be better than then lol

https://twitter.com/jessehawken/status/1374421690734706690

teagone
Jun 10, 2003

That was pretty intense, huh?

Neo Rasa posted:

I'm like insanely hype for this.

Yeah, New Gods and Pattinson Batman are the only DC cape poo poo I'm interested in post-ZSJL. On the Marvel side, I'm really only interested in Shang-Chi. The superhero genre is waning for me it seems like...unless Marvel does something really interesting with X-Men.

[edit] Err, I lied. I'm kinda exited for the Green Lantern show on HBO Max because Jessica Cruz is gonna be on it. Hope they make her an interesting character. Oh, and if WB brings Constantine back for Justice League Dark, WB will have slightly regained my confidence.

teagone fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Mar 23, 2021

Grimdude
Sep 25, 2006

It was a shame how he carried on
My bad. I had literally no reason to assume that was a joke other than knowing the specific SA subforum lore behind it. It didn't seem that far off from the actual takes here.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

KVeezy3 posted:

That reminds me, Superman psychotically smiling while beating down Steppenwolf will always be a black mark on this film for me. I get the part where he's happy to be back and dodging Steppenwolf's blows, but the other parts are just unsettling. Too light-happy, not my superman, etc.

When he was just holding Steppenwolf down and pounding him I did get a bit 😬 like dude, he's down, you can lay off a bit now

Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006

teagone posted:

I don't think continuity of costume design and general aesthetic is something the DC films are concerned with tbh. Aquaman is the follow up film to ZSJL, and look how different those films look from one another lol. I'm sure Ava DuVernay's New Gods film will be aesthetically wild.
Oh word, I did not know about this! That sounds great.

I am down with Seven Soldiers take of reincarnated New Gods, but if they're the for real Gods, I would really like to see Kirby's take where they're just a bunch of mismatched action figures, salesmen, and literal Nazis. I feel like Snyder's LotRish designs were uninspired and then further watered down by Whedon.

EDIT: The We Hate Movies Podcast made a really good point in their episode that if WB had just waited it out a little bit, they probably would be seeing the DCEU really lift off as the MCU hit its soft finale with Endgame.

Detective No. 27
Jun 7, 2006

Goddamn I love the weird fist post. Didn't we track down the shot and it ended to being from Superman Returns? Lmao.

As for Granny Goodness, who knows how she would have wound up in the future movies. People tend to really dig Snyder's versions of characters in unexpected ways. He rehabbed Aquaman's pop culture image. Faora ended up a fan favorite who got written into the comics. Also Steppenwolf went from being a graphics card box joke before the movie released to people being endeared by his puppy dog eyes and futile attempts at pleasing the boss.

Equeen
Oct 29, 2011

Pole dance~

Detective No. 27 posted:

Goddamn I love the weird fist post. Didn't we track down the shot and it ended to being from Superman Returns? Lmao.

As for Granny Goodness, who knows how she would have wound up in the future movies. People tend to really dig Snyder's versions of characters in unexpected ways. He rehabbed Aquaman's pop culture image. Faora ended up a fan favorite who got written into the comics. Also Steppenwolf went from being a graphics card box joke before the movie released to people being endeared by his puppy dog eyes and futile attempts at pleasing the boss.

Faora existed in the comics since the 70s :goonsay:

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Arkage
Aug 10, 2008

Things fall apart;
the centre cannot hold

KVeezy3 posted:

That reminds me, Superman psychotically smiling while beating down Steppenwolf will always be a black mark on this film for me. I get the part where he's happy to be back and dodging Steppenwolf's blows, but the other parts are just unsettling. Too light-happy, not my superman, etc.

#notallsupermen

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