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Kchama posted:Movie was cancelled six years ago. Weber hitched himself to a company that planned a huge multimedia Honorverse blitz including movies, video games, and comic books and the only thing that happened were the comic books and I think the company went under too, taking all the video games and movies with it. But Ivanova was a good character. I actually read the first of the comics once, it was presented as a weird flashback kind of thing set during that book where she's a prisoner of war but telling the first book through flashback. Didn't make a lot of sense.
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Mar 5, 2021 19:02
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Space Butler posted:But Ivanova was a good character. She's also not a thing like Honor in any way, so it just seemed like who Weber was hot for at the time. Yeah if I remember correctly they're set during the time she was captured and on the prison planet and I'm not sure why they chose that particular framing device because you'd think it'd cause a lot of plotholes down the road.
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Mar 5, 2021 22:43
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The flashback thing is a very strange choice, but I can see the reasoning - it would allow them to skip forward and back as needed quite easily. Doing that would help fit the narrative to a comic's pacing, without locking them out of any scenes they'd want to use later.
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Mar 5, 2021 23:29
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yiss miss swiss hebochi going onn myriad legostarships why Canadians dont belong (#montreal) tuesday nights inn book dread incomes p. shur chill penguin from mmbn7:starforce ..at any rate dispensed plasma rigged ufo's diligence onnalong starlit caressing impression of enthusiasm erotica like ghatsby MilitantSci-fic must load ... Yupp dubstep dub ziolent order ...sector uni-coincidences blunt enigmatrixes calculus hundreds into reading starsship trippin Aint yxz phase.varsword eject into depths galactic dead space on towards peaceful negotiations with x4Riklits force elite sects bloasted shinjero capt. Godzilla can steak and Gwahr! Anyhow im driving barnes_Nobles w/ syntax alien drol femenloard sysseri naomi-hyefy wit quips bonghits clever poo (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 7, 2021 17:30
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Alright
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Mar 7, 2021 17:36
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Gnoman posted:The flashback thing is a very strange choice, but I can see the reasoning - it would allow them to skip forward and back as needed quite easily. Doing that would help fit the narrative to a comic's pacing, without locking them out of any scenes they'd want to use later. I mean I get that, but the problem is how they chose to do the flashback. Having it be Honor telling everything to Haven is the issue, since Haven's not suppose to be aware of ANY of that, until I guess they become Treecat-controlled best friends of Manticore in the final books.
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Mar 7, 2021 22:24
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That's fair enough. Haven did not become aware of most of the details until the restored Republic allied with Manticore out of mutual self-interest and the discovery of a common enemy.
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Mar 7, 2021 23:07
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A thought occurred to me the other day (not for the first time, but this time I remembered to mention it to the thread): Mesans. Masons. Freemasons.
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Mar 17, 2021 11:58
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Anshu posted:A thought occurred to me the other day (not for the first time, but this time I remembered to mention it to the thread): Checks out.
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Mar 17, 2021 14:11
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Also, I'm rereading Weber's Multiverse series via audiobook, and I've just been reminded that I love the cheerfully bloodthirsty way he characterizes the orcas when psychics talk to them. It's all but explicit that sometime in the last few thousand years, the orcas decided, "These other cetaceans are thinking creatures, like us." – (later extended to include humans) – "Therefore, we will no longer eat them, despite how delicious they are," and you get the strong sense that modern orcas are continuously and consciously choosing to abide by that decision.
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Mar 22, 2021 07:04
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Killer whales famously eat other whales frequently though? Or is modern orca in the context of the books here
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Mar 22, 2021 15:41
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I meant in the context of the books, yeah
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Mar 22, 2021 21:26
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SFL Archives Fall 1994: As of Fall 1994, Harry Turtledove has a mere eight mil-fiction/mil-scifi books published (current Turtledove mil-fiction/mil-scifi book count as of 2020 is pushing 50+). The second book in Harry Harrison's fantasy mil-fiction series about alt-history Vikings has just been published. Fred Saberhagen in Fall 1994 is more known for his horror-fantasy stories about Dracula and his proto-Malazan precursor stories than any of the mil-fiction/mil-scifi stories he is most remembered for now. And finally, Honor Harrington book #4 comes out. 1994 SFL Archives Honor Harrington chat ------------------------------ Date: 2 Sep 1994 17:50:59 -0400 From: dani@telerama.lm.com Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Weber: Honor Harrington -- Field of Dishonor The new Honor Harrington book, "Field of Dishonor", is out. I thought it was weaker than the earlier books in the series. People who haven't read those books shouldn't start here (though they may want to check out "On Basilisk Station"), but readers who enjoyed the earlier books will probably find this one worth reading. This book departs from the military arena which Weber handles well, in favor of the political and personal, which are not his strong points. The story picks up where the last one ended with the court martial of Pavel Young. Unfortunately, the court martial turns into a political circus and the struggle between Young and Harrington gets nasty. "Field of Dishonor" was something of a disappointment - not least because too much of what happens is too contrived but I'll still be looking for the next book in the series, if and when. Dani Zweig dani@netcom.com dani@telerama.lm.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Sep 1994 00:18:57 GMT From: sef@kithrup.com (Sean Eric Fagan) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Weber: Honor Harrington -- Field of Dishonor <dani@telerama.lm.com> wrote: Some spoilers, perhaps. >The new Honor Harrington book, "Field of Dishonor", is out. I thought it >was weaker than the earlier books in the series. I don't know about that. It depends what you want. It is *much* less a naval book than the previous three, and focuses a lot more on other aspects of her life. I didn't care that much for the ending, however. On the other hand, it certainly leaves it open for more sequels. I don't know if he has any planned, though. But, all in all, I enjoyed the different aspects in this one. As you point out, there did seem to be some things missing, at times, but, I did enjoy it. (Stayed up until 2AM reading it last night.) >People who haven't read those books shouldn't start here Considering it's the fourth book (of four?), I should say not!  ------------------------------ Date: 5 Sep 1994 00:04:30 -0500 From: dastuart@cs.utexas.edu (Douglas A. Stuart) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Honor Harrington The book was a fun read, although there was a little too much Foreshadowing (the sign of quality literature) for my taste. Anyone know if there will be a Honor Harrington 5? According to Locus forthcoming books (Sep), the only thing Weber has coming out from Baen is "Oath of Swords" in February, and although that might be a reference to Grayson, it doesn't seem that likely. Since Mutineer's Moon doesn't seem to need a second sequel, and Steve White isn't mentioned as a co-author, so its probably not another Starfire book, does anyone know anything about it? Although I liked "Path of the Fury," which doesn't seem to get much mention, and wouldn't mind a sequel, the title doesn't really sound right for that. SPOILERS FOR FIELD OF DISHONOR Although I enjoyed it, it did have a little too much of a sense of inevitability about it, especially since it looked like it would turn out this way ever since the title was given in Short Victorious War. On the other hand, at least Weber didn't take the easy way out and use Young's treachery to keep from putting her on the beach. Also, from about half-way through, I was sort of expecting her to end up CO of the Grayson's ex-Haven Curvosier (sp), although that may come next. ------------------------------ Date: 5 Sep 1994 13:22:07 GMT From: mikeg@llc.org (Mike Giroux) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Weber: Field of Dishonor I haven't seen it yet, but I read the first two chapters in the back of the new "Jedi Academy" novel, and _Field of Dishonor_ takes place right after _A Short, Victorious War_, dealing with political maneuvering around Pavel White's court martial and war with the Peeps. The first two chapters were good, guess I'll have to wait for the book to get "up north" here to find out about the rest... Mike Giroux Charny, Quebec, Canada mikeg@llc.org ------------------------------ Date: 5 Sep 1994 22:05:38 GMT From: danac@morc.mfg.sgi.com (Dana Crom) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Honor Harrington Didn't I see a mention here that Weber was in a car accident lately? Does anyone have any more info? I would agree that of all the Weber books out now that _FOD_ has the most need of a sequel, but that doesn't mean that we'll get one. Douglas A. Stuart <dastuart@cs.utexas.edu> wrote: >SPOILERS FOR FIELD OF DISHONOR > >Although I enjoyed it, it did have a little too much of a sense of >inevitability about it, especially since it looked like it would turn out >this way ever since the title was given in Short Victorious War. On the >other hand, at least Weber didn't take the easy way out and use Young's >treachery to keep from putting her on the beach. Also, from about >half-way through, I was sort of expecting her to end up CO of the >Grayson's ex-Haven Curvosier (sp), although that may come next. Had a few nice turns, though. Leaves *lots* of loose ends. I had the same thought about Honor's future career - I could easily see Grayson snapping her up, at least till the Queen and PM manage to mend some political fences and call her back. Might be interesting if she ended up, while in the persona of a Grayson Admiral, commanding a mixed squadron with RMN personnel who outrank her when in her RMN persona ;-) Then again, I have a warped mind. This, though, is the first time she's *really* been hurt where it really counts. If she did not have such a strong sense of duty, and personal loyalty to her sovereign (*not* the government of the SKoM), I could see her sense of betrayal leading her to shift all her commitment to Grayson. On a minor note, Weber tied up a few loose ends here, as well. I'd been wondering for some time what Honor would do when Nimitz got old, as well as wondering why the treecats had such high intelligence in the first place. Finding out that they are neolithic toolusers with a 250+ year(!) lifespan ended speculation on both counts. Another thought - does anyone else feel that Weber is writing himself into a corner with the prize system? It worked OK for the British navy back in the days of sail, but a spacecraft costs a *lot* more capital than a wooden ship - Honor isn't just well-to-do these days, she's stinking rich. Not that many multi-millionaires in combat, I wouldn't think. Then again, if you've got folks like White Haven and Mike Henke mixing it up, I'm looking at it from the wrong angle - noblesse oblige and all that. Dana Crom Silicon Graphics, Inc. danac@morc.mfg.sgi.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Sep 94 20:15:30 EDT From: SAUNDRSG@qucdn.queensu.ca (Graydon) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Honor Harrington danac@morc.mfg.sgi.com (Dana Crom) writes: >>SPOILERS FOR FIELD OF DISHONOR >I had the same thought about Honor's future career - I could easily see >Grayson snapping her up, at least till the Queen and PM manage to mend >some political fences and call her back. Might be interesting if she >ended up, while in the persona of a Grayson Admiral, commanding a mixed >squadron with RMN personnel who outrank her when in her RMN persona ;-) >Then again, I have a warped mind. You're forgetting whose life Honour is living. Horatio Hornblower also got beached, under somewhat different circumstances, just when it looked like his career was taking off. He got off the beach PDQ when the Admiralty was in a position to do it. Since Honour is *considerably* more notorious, we won't get a replay of the wonderful, wonderful whist game, but Weber might manage something similar. Also under this heading, we can expect something quite unpleasant and fatal to befall Paul Tankersly, and for Honour to eventually end up married to Hamish Alexander. >This, though, is the first time she's *really* been hurt where it really >counts. If she did not have such a strong sense of duty, and personal >loyalty to her sovereign (*not* the government of the SKoM), I could see >her sense of betrayal leading her to shift all her commitment to Grayson. She could always try taking her seat in the Lords and making a hairy nuisance of herself. (:Field of Dishonour: won't be here for another two weeks; if there is a spoiler for why that can't or won't happen, *don't* tell me!) >Another thought - does anyone else feel that Weber is writing himself into >a corner with the prize system? It worked OK for the British navy back in >the days of sail, but a spacecraft costs a *lot* more capital than a >wooden ship - Honor isn't just well-to-do these days, she's stinking rich. >Not that many multi-millionaires in combat, I wouldn't think. Then again, >if you've got folks like White Haven and Mike Henke mixing it up, I'm >looking at it from the wrong angle - noblesse oblige and all that. If I remember :On Basilisk Station: correctly, they get half a percent of the value of contraband; this also applies (or seems to apply) to the freighter sent in under prize crew, so instead of splitting half the value as determined by prize court, they get half a percent. That the captain's share is 6% where the enlisted personnel split 70% is also a radical departure from RN practice in days gone by. It makes sense to me; there are individual Manticorans who are very, very rich, and it doesn't seem to keep them (necessarily) out of naval careers, as you noted. It is also the case that an enemy ship to take apart, even a bashed and battered enemy ship, is much more valuable as an intelligence assert, relatively, than taking a man'o' war, so the Admiralty wants to encourage taking prizes (since it is *much* harder than winning the fight, and getting a decisive win is clearly not easy to start with.) The same rule wrt contraband makes plenty of sense just as a bribe deterent - having to offer whole percentages of the value of your cargo as bribes makes bribery quite a bit less practical. It also rather suits the Manticoran notion of social mobility; an outstanding Naval officer is in some danger of becoming gentry or nobility, and if they can make themselves appropriately wealthy at the same time, all the better. ------------------------------ Date: 6 Sep 1994 16:13:27 GMT From: schulman+@pitt.edu (Christina Schulman) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Honor Harrington Douglas A. Stuart <dastuart@cs.utexas.edu> wrote: >Anyone know if there will be a Honor Harrington 5? >forthcoming books >(Sep), the only thing Weber has coming out from Baen is "Oath of Swords" >in February, and although that might be a reference to Grayson, it doesn't >seem that likely. That's Honor #5, I believe. At least, I know there's going to be an Honor #5, and I think it's supposed to be out sometime around February next year; draw your own conclusions. I am also given to understand that while book 4 ends on a depressing note, book 5 will fix things. I haven't actually read book 4, much less 5 yet; my information comes from Larry Smith, book pusher par excellence, who has been reading the books in manuscript form, the lucky bastard. It's probably just as well that Honor's running into problems; otherwise, she'd be promoted to Queen around book 6. Christina Schulman schulman+@pitt.edu schulman@michael.nmr.upmc.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Sep 94 12:33:21 EDT From: SAUNDRSG@qucdn.queensu.ca (Graydon) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Honor Harrington schulman+@pitt.edu (Christina Schulman) writes: >It's probably just as well that Honor's running into problems; otherwise, >she'd be promoted to Queen around book 6. Hey, these people have _ten_ pennant grade officer ranks (Captain of the list, and then Green and Red Divisions of Commodore, Rear Admiral, Vice Admiral, and Admiral, plus Admiral of the Fleet.) It's also quite obvious that they *don't* bounce people a rank or seniority without excruciatingly strong reasons, which even (especially!) Honour is going to have trouble providing. Even at one book per plain grade, that's five more before she even gets to start making policy decisions. :] Although I expect we are going to get much more of Honour running amok with a battlecruiser division than of Honour being sentenced to the number four post (weapons systems evaluation and development) at BuShips when she makes Vice Admiral of the Red. ------------------------------ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 6 Sep 1994 17:39:08 GMT From: bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Weber: Honor Harrington -- Field of Dishonor dani@telerama.lm.com writes: >The new Honor Harrington book, "Field of Dishonor", is out. I thought it >was weaker than the earlier books in the series. People who haven't read >those books shouldn't start here (though they may want to check out "On >Basilisk Station"), but readers who enjoyed the earlier books will >probably find this one worth reading. Ooops. I started the series with Field, having noticed it at the bookstore and seeing some discussion of it recently. I'm glad the others are better. One thing (of many) that bugged me a bit was the way that all the Good Guys were incredibly hawkish. I may be missing out on something (not having read the previous books), but in general if one is a small power being harassed by a big power, and the bigger power has some internal problems, going on the military offensive does not strike me as an optimal strategic move for the smaller power. Using the time to build more equipment, train more crews, and get some allies seems like a much better course (IMO). Covert operations too (if possible). ------------------------------ Date: 6 Sep 1994 22:22:02 -0400 From: smarks@aol.com (SMarks) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Weber: Honor Harrington -- Field of Dishonor bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris) writes: >One thing (of many) that bugged me a bit was the way that all the Good >Guys were incredibly hawkish. > >I may be missing out on something (not having read the previous books), >but in general if one is a small power being harassed by a big power, and >the bigger power has some internal problems, going on the military >offensive does not strike me as an optimal strategic move for the smaller >power. > >Using the time to build more equipment, train more crews, and get some >allies seems like a much better course (IMO). Covert operations too (if >possible). First of all, I liked the book as much as the others. Although there wasn't the battles that took place in earlier books, at least we were spared the tedious explanations of why wars in the future are exactly like naval battles between England and France<g>. However, in answer to your complaints, these questions are explained in earlier books. There are very few allies available and there have been continous efforts in those and other directions. The Manticore nation does have advantages in areas of technology and better trained personnel. Weber does a good job of setting of events so that his characters' responses are legitimate. It's pretty amazing considering that he is recreating Forrester's original series. I loved the Horatio Hornblower books and Weber does a very good job following them. There are problems but it is a series I would recommend to anyone who liked the HH books. Samuel Marks smarks@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Sep 1994 22:33:54 -0800 From: robertaw@halcyon.com (Robert A. Woodward) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Weber: Honor Harrington -- Field of Dishonor I haven't read these books (I am debating on whether to do so); but I understand that the bigger power is somewhat "flabby." For a real life example, there is Alexander of Macedon's attack of the Persian Empire; that was extraordinarily successful. rawoodward@aol.com robertaw@halcyon.com cjpw69a@prodigy.com ------------------------------ Date: 7 Sep 1994 04:17:22 GMT From: dswartz@pugsley.osf.org (Dan Swartzendruber) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Weber: Honor Harrington -- Field of Dishonor bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris) writes: >One thing (of many) that bugged me a bit was the way that all the Good >Guys were incredibly hawkish. Justified in the current circumstances, IMO. Look at the parallels with the French Revolution. They've got the Peeps off balance and disoriented. This is a great chance to wreak havoc on them with no real downside (after all, it's not like they have to worry about getting the Peeps angry, no?) >I may be missing out on something (not having read the previous books), >but in general if one is a small power being harassed by a big power, and >the bigger power has some internal problems, going on the military >offensive does not strike me as an optimal strategic move for the smaller >power. Bronis, we're not talking about harassment here. We're talking about an unmistakable intent to conquer the Kingdom. If someone bigger than you comes after you with a drawn sword, announcing his intent to kill you, then trips and falls down, you'd be a fool not to go kick him while he's down. >Using the time to build more equipment, train more crews, and get some >allies seems like a much better course (IMO). Only if you could improve your situation enough to compensate to make it worthwhile. The downside here is that letting the Peeps regain their equilibrium and reorganize their command structure could negate much of the gains made during the two muggings that occurred to date. The Kingdom, on the other hand, seems from my reading to be pretty much maxed out. They're not that big, and there aren't that many allies with any significant strength. > Covert operations too (if possible). Limited usefulness, once hostilities have broken out. Dan S. ------------------------------ Date: 07 Sep 1994 16:54:59 GMT From: john@avante.wpi.edu (John Stoffel) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Weber: Field of Dishonor Now for a mini-review. I liked it. I liked it a lot. I think it's a better book than the third one, if only because it has some very good plot twists. As stated, it doesn't have the space battles of the previous books, but that makes for a good change. I guess my only real complaint is that the book seemed a bit hurried in its writing. Let me correct that, it seemed hurried in its story line. I get the feeling David Weber wanted to take another hundred pages and jump around a bit more among the various view points of people in the action. As it was, I think he pulled it off pretty well. No, it isn't Hugo material, but it is a good (nay great!) continuation of a series. It isn't often that an author can keep a series so consistently good. John ------------------------------ Date: 8 Sep 1994 01:11:26 GMT From: todd@sam.neosoft.com (Todd Smith) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Weber: Field of Dishonor john@avante.WPI.EDU (John Stoffel) says: >No, it isn't Hugo material, but it is a good (nay great!) continuation of >a series. It isn't often that an author can keep a series so consistently >good. Sorry. I thought it was excellent. The last one didn't quite do anything for me but this one really did. I bought it at lunch and read it during the day every time my boss was on the phone. When the pivotal, important thing happened in the middle, I came home and read the rest on my patio. Maybe I'm at a weird point in the male hormonal cycle, but the non-space battle, personal stuff really struck a chord. It almost seems like literary overkill to name this character "honor". I particularly like (and hate - 'cause I'll have to wait to see it done) how the scene has been set for the next novel to allow "her" to force "them" to come to their senses after she does what I hope for (and expect) her to do once she gets where she's going (if you know what I mean). Todd todd@sam.neosoft.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 18:11:38 GMT From: cpf@alchemy.geo.cornell.edu (Courtenay Footman) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: David Weber Rumor A while ago, someone posted that David Weber was seriously injured in an automobile accident. I never saw a confirmation or a denial. Does anyone _know_ if he did, and if so, how serious was "seriously"? Courtenay Footman cpf@alchemy.ithaca.ny.us ------------------------------ Date: 9 Sep 1994 19:59:04 GMT From: paik@mlo.dec.com (Samuel S. Paik) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Weber: Field of Dishonor Read it last night. Overall, I kind of liked it, but I think it makes a poor [semi-standalone] novel. I think it would have made more sense to have _The Short Victorious War_ and _Field of Dishonor_ as a single novel. Samuel Paik Digital Equipment Corporation 3D Device Support paik@mlo.dec.com ------------------------------ Date: 12 Sep 1994 18:40:07 -0400 From: josherman@aol.com (JoSherman) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: David Weber Rumor Yes, he was in an auto accident, but that was a while back. Spoke to him the other day, and he's very much alive and well and writing. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 00:50:44 GMT From: msmith@beta.tricity.wsu.edu (Mark Smith) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: David Weber Rumor JoSherman (josherman@aol.com) wrote: >Yes, he was in an auto accident, but that was a while back. Spoke to him >the other day, and he's very much alive and well and writing. Is he writing the sequel to Field of Dishonor? I surely hope so. <G> Mark ------------------------------
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Mar 26, 2021 15:43
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quantumfoam posted:Date: Mon, 05 Sep 94 20:15:30 EDT This was correct on all points! Nice to see that people were spotting the parallels even pretty early on.
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Mar 27, 2021 07:45
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Found during my SFL Archives readthrough attempt. "Most of the incidents involve far more blood-letting than the law of averages would require, but I suppose that's why carnophiles read carnography" -from a review of David Drake's 1994 novel THE VOYAGE.
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Apr 19, 2021 16:16
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Is that the infamous Platt?
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Apr 19, 2021 21:11
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Gnoman posted:Is that the infamous Platt? No. It's from one of the most iron-gutted mil-scifi/mil-fiction fans in the SFL Archives. Their full review of Drake's The Voyage follows below. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 04:39:19 GMT From: dani@telerama.lm.com (Dani Zweig) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Drake: The Voyage David Drake's "Voyage" is set in the universe of Hammer's Slammers, which means that it involves hard-bitten professional soldiers doing a lot of damage. Just as "Cross the Stars" was based on the Odyssey, "Voyage" is based on the story of Jason and the Argonauts: Lissea Doorman has been promised her rightful heritage (a seat on the Board of Directors) if she can retrieve a long-lost treasure (an invention which teleported to a now- isolated planet), so she recruits a shipful of heroes (big-name mercenaries) who stop at a number of planets on the way, having an adventure of sorts at each one. The parallels are very heavy-handed. For example, instead of harpies snatching food from a table, we have teleporters snatching food as it comes out of the automatic food dispenser. The monsters guarding the treasure are tanks, which can be lulled into 'sleep' with a device which they receive from the son of the local ruler. (Lissea may be luckier than Jason in her Medea.) And so forth. The plot structure doesn't lend itself that well to a novel: Each stop (and most of the stops are unconvincingly motivated) becomes the setting for a separate, isolated (and often pointless) incident. Most of the incidents involve far more blood-letting than the law of averages would require, but I suppose that's why carnophiles read carnography. The book is probably not bad mind-candy, for those readers whose favorite mind-candy comes in the form of bloody gobbets. I wouldn't recommend it else. Author: Drake, David Title: The Voyage Publisher: Tor City: New York Date: January, 1994 Order Info: ISBN 0-312-85158-8 Pages: 415 pp Comments: US$23.95 Dani Zweig dani@netcom.com dani@telerama.lm.com ------------------------------ Also the mil-fiction/mil-scifi fans in the SFL Archives have just started talking about David Feintuch's Midshipman's Hope, which literally appears to be Horatio Hornblower set in the 23rd century.
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Apr 20, 2021 07:02
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I read two? three? of the Seafort Saga books and they were pretty bad. Had a obsession with (very) young midshipmen being caned, some incredibly racist depictions of "transpops" which (IIRC) were a near-feral urban underclass, a sort of weird fascistic setting where the UN World Government is some kind of despotic theocracy because of the moral degradation of the past or whatever it was, and they just weren't entertaining at all.
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Apr 20, 2021 09:25
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C.M. Kruger posted:I read two? three? of the Seafort Saga books and they were pretty bad. Had a obsession with (very) young midshipmen being caned, some incredibly racist depictions of "transpops" which (IIRC) were a near-feral urban underclass, a sort of weird fascistic setting where the UN World Government is some kind of despotic theocracy because of the moral degradation of the past or whatever it was, and they just weren't entertaining at all. is there a good "hornblower in space" series? or even "aubrey-maturin in space"?
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Apr 20, 2021 10:06
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I get the general impression that ANCIENT FAMOUS STORY/NOVEL IN SPACE/IN 1918/RETOLD IN SOME OTHER SETTING is pretty much always doomed to suck.
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Apr 20, 2021 11:24
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Kchama posted:I get the general impression that ANCIENT FAMOUS STORY/NOVEL IN SPACE/IN 1918/RETOLD IN SOME OTHER SETTING is pretty much always doomed to suck. the david drake one is really good actually. the important part is that he steals what makes auburey/marturin novels good, the dynamic of two fellas being bros, instead of just inventing some reason that space ships are like boats and calling it a day. seriously recommend
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Apr 20, 2021 11:48
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Larry Parrish posted:the david drake one is really good actually. the important part is that he steals what makes auburey/marturin novels good, the dynamic of two fellas being bros, instead of just inventing some reason that space ships are like boats and calling it a day. seriously recommend David Drake owns in general. One of the few good mil-sci-fi authors.
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Apr 20, 2021 15:03
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C.M. Kruger posted:I read two? three? of the Seafort Saga books and they were pretty bad. Had a obsession with (very) young midshipmen being caned, some incredibly racist depictions of "transpops" which (IIRC) were a near-feral urban underclass, a sort of weird fascistic setting where the UN World Government is some kind of despotic theocracy because of the moral degradation of the past or whatever it was, and they just weren't entertaining at all. Thats just how the British royal navy & British society in the 18th century literally operated. SFL Archives people are going "Feintuch has literally word-swapped Hornblower into a 23rd century setting/"the social background, and indeed the setting for virtually everything seems to be a very forced fit of 18th century values and customs onto a 23rd century space cruiser." The best mil-scifi "futuristic Horatio Hornblower in space" conversion I've come across still remains A. Bertram Chandler's StrixNebulosa posted:David Drake owns in general. One of the few good mil-sci-fi authors. Mostly Agree. David Drake is one of the better & realistic mil-fiction/mil-scifi writers out there but that's a extremely shallow garbage filled pool (the mil-scifi/mil-fiction genre). Just never ever read any of Drake's Jed Lacey stories if you want to keep that high opinion of Drake's writing.
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Apr 20, 2021 15:57
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Or Lord of the Isles, which is derivative boring trash even by the low standards of fantasy fans.
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Apr 20, 2021 19:10
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David Feintuch repeatedly responds to questions about his Seafort Saga books in the SFL Archives. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Apr 95 21:06:54 -0500 From: Dave Feintuch <midave@delphi.com> Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Midshipman's Hope David Voda <Voda@ix.netcom.com> writes: >Did anyone out there like MIDSHIPMAN'S HOPE by David Feintuch as much as >I did? > >It's just the sort of sf I love - space, star ships, great characters, >real conflicts, both inner and outer. > >Has he written anything else that I've missed? Thanks for the comment... gawd I love to hear stuff like that  CHALLENGER'S HOPE (also from Warner Aspect) is just hitting the shelves even as we speak. PRISONER'S HOPE to follow in September. Dave Feintuch ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Apr 95 16:35:27 -0500 From: Dave Feintuch <midave@delphi.com> Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Midshipman's Hope David Empey <dgempey@cats.ucsc.edu> writes: >If you wanted to write an epic about Napoleonic naval warfare, why didn't >you just do so? What's with the SF trappings? I'm not complaining mind >you; I loved _MH_ and fully intend to buy all the sequels as soon as they >come out. I'm just curious. Well... the story I had in mind required that the protagonist be (a) in an authoritarian environment, and (b) completely isolated from superior authority. I considered writing a British Naval story - it was my first idea, in fact, but I knew that if I tried it I'd get a thousand letters that said approximately, "haha, the forbish cleat is ginseled to the mainsail, not the boommast," or something of the sort. Yes, I knew my British Naval history, but I didn't want to get bogged down in the sort of intricate research such a project would take. Besides, Patrick O'Brien has already done it. (To say nothing of Forrester). So... having grown up on Heinlein, I cleared the decks, built my own world, and let the story proceed. Truthfully, I'm rather glad I did. I think it works much better this way. Dave feintuch ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 95 03:11:57 -0500 From: Dave Feintuch <midave@delphi.com> Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Midshipman's Hope Joel Nikoleit <nikoleit@ripco.com> writes: >I also enjoyed this book even though I had problems with its plausiblity. >Since the author reads this newsgroup I want to ask why there would be a >space navy with weapons that can fight other ships when the space navy has >all the ships. Why would anyone spend money on unneeded weapons? Ship to >ship weapons can't easily be used against planets. I believe in MIDSHIPMAN I mentioned that the navy used its weapons from time to time against planetary bandits back on Earth. And in an authoritarian society, one walks loudly AND carries a big stick. As far as usability, I don;t believe lasers care very much where they are pointed, and those are the main weapons in use. Compared to the cost of the ships themselves, lasers are not a financial burden. Or so was my thinking, at the time. >On an other note, _Challenger's Hope_ must be popular in the Chicago Area. >My local Crown Books is out of it and their regional distrabution center >is out also. I hope that this is due to good sales and not a publisher's >mistake. CHALLENGER just came out and it sometimes takes weeks to get into the distribution channel. Your bookstores have a lot of information about books they carry on their computer... you might ask them to look up whether they had any and sold them (if so, how many) or whether they didn;t get any in yet. (I for one would like very much to know... )Glad you enjoyed it. Dave Feintuch ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Apr 95 03:01:31 -0500 From: Dave Feintuch <midave@delphi.com> Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Midshipman's Hope James Gassaway <dtravel@crl.com> writes: >The only thing that started to bother me about the Seafort Saga after >reading "Challenger's Hope" is this: Nicholas is in need of some serious >psychiatric help. This is not a cut down of the character, he's just He's been under a bit of stress lately, yes... >hold up, but for how much longer? What is the UNNS going to do when he >finally loses it? If Mr. Feintuch wants to respond, that would be very >nice but I'm not looking for any spoilers. I'm hoping for some surprises >in "Prisoner's Hope". Actually, you put your finger on the climax of the series. I can't say more without it's being a spoiler. But it's a very grand climax, if I say so myself. One or two folks have wondered about some of the incidents and stresses that this character encounters. Many of the incidents have parallels in our military past, if not present. And certainly one should not be too surprised at a military figure who, from stress, finally loses it. Consider the pilot of the Enola Gay, Tibbets. he spent much of his life in and out of institutions, I believe. Hope your comments meant you liked CHALLENGER... Dave Feintuch ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 21:36:15 -0500 From: Dave Feintuch <midave@delphi.com> Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Midshipman's Hope Three announcements: 1. MIDSHIPMAN'S HOPE just went into its fifth printing. I can't say how pleased I am to hear this. 2. CHALLENGER'S HOPE was released two weeks ago. Last week, USA Today, the newspaper, ran a list of the 200 top-selling books in the nation, in all categories. CHALLENGER'S HOPE was number 116, which I'll grant isn't the New York Times top ten, but on the other hand, it is nine places ahead of the Pope's book. 3. I just learned hours ago that I've been nominated for the John W. Campbell Award for best new s.f. writer of 1995. A writer is eligible only two years, and this is the first time I've been eligible. The nomination itself is a wonderful honor. Dave Feintuch ------------------------------
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Apr 23, 2021 17:06
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Kchama posted:Movie was cancelled six years ago. Weber hitched himself to a company that planned a huge multimedia Honorverse blitz including movies, video games, and comic books and the only thing that happened were the comic books and I think the company went under too, taking all the video games and movies with it. lol I happened to come across the comic books at one point, what struck me was how all the issues after the first one appeared to be rendered by using some 3D graphics program to pose models. It just looked awful, even worse than the recent Star Trek comic books where it's painfully obvious that nearly every face is either a tracing of a screenshot from the show, or possibly literally a screencap that's been photoshopped into the art.
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Apr 27, 2021 03:11
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:lol I happened to come across the comic books at one point, what struck me was how all the issues after the first one appeared to be rendered by using some 3D graphics program to pose models. It just looked awful, even worse than the recent Star Trek comic books where it's painfully obvious that nearly every face is either a tracing of a screenshot from the show, or possibly literally a screencap that's been photoshopped into the art. Weber ending up getting someone who makes bad Poser CGI porn to do an Honor Harrington comic makes perfect sense in my brain. It's the kind of decision you get out of someone who thinks that the British monarchy is the best political system ever.
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Apr 27, 2021 20:58
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Oh man here we go again
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Apr 30, 2021 00:13
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David Feintuch kept posting to the SFL Archives in 1995/SFL Vol 20b defending his writing. Turns out Feintuch like A. Bertram Chandler wrote what he knew, and made the main character in his SEAFORT SAGA series a massively unstable person that kept screaming at people wanting to help/and in story stopping people from doing basic spaceship safety related things, then always pulling a "IF ONLY I HAD KNOWN (not to scream at people wanting to do their spacejobs)!!" later on. Supposedly Feintuch wrote all 4 Seafort stories at once before getting a publishing contract, and allegedly Seafort was much much worse/way more unstable in the original versions of the SEAFORT SAGA stories that Feintuch wrote. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 03:39:33 -0500 From: Dave Feintuch <midave@delphi.com> Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Prisoner's Hope by David Feintuch Don Croyle <croyle@fwi.com> writes: >Yes. The foreshadowing is more heavy handed and Seafort is still having >major self esteem problems. Seafort's self-esteem problems were so much a part of the original writing (remember all four books were completed before the series was bought) that it was impossible to remove it completely, even though by the time Prisoner came out, I had toned it down considerably. >One nice thing is that it's set mainly on a planet so we see more of the >background society in general. Looks to me like even in this world >Seafort is considered to have an overdeveloped sense of responsibility. Absolutely. But I never claimed he hadn't... It is one of his flawsthat he can;t seem to do much about. Hope you liked it. Dave Feintuch MIDAVE@DELPHI.COM ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 03:46:33 -0500 From: Dave Feintuch <midave@delphi.com> Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Prisoner's Hope by David Feintuch John Peterson <jpeterso@panix.com> writes: >I don't know what it is about these books. The last two have been real >depressing, but I just couldn't put them down. Am I alone in this? Interesting... Things were not going all that well in my life when I wrote this. (See the preface to the Science Fiction Book Club edition for elaboration.) The depression, which fits in with the story, seemed quite natural to me at the time. >I think Seafort makes Thomas Covenant look like Mr. Self Esteem. Hehe. As I've mentioned elsewhere, I DID tune down the lack of self esteem considerably from the early versions. He was a complete basket case, as originaly written. I think, though, that you'll see where all this is headed when you read the final novel, FISHERMAN'S HOPE. There is, believe it or not, a reason for his feeling as he does. Dave Feintuch MIDAVE@DELPHI.COM ------------------------------ David Weber also came up a bit in SFL Archives Vol 20b. The first mention of Weber's "DO NOT KILL THESE CHARACTERS LIST" along with David Weber allegedly having signed a 16 book(!) contract with Baen Books sometime in late 1995. Finally, the really old WITCHES OF KARRES mil-SFF series came up, and no lies from how the people of 1995 talked about them, the Karres stories seem to be not-garbage and aged gracefully. quantumfoam fucked around with this message at 07:19 on May 11, 2021 |
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May 11, 2021 07:13
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quantumfoam posted:Finally, the really old WITCHES OF KARRES mil-SFF series came up, and no lies from how the people of 1995 talked about them, the Karres stories seem to be not-garbage and aged gracefully. The originals are really good, and Baen justifies its existence by putting the classics back in print. The modern sequels on the other hand, suck poo poo through a fine-meshed screen. All of the "women can be effective and/or useful !" stuff that made the originals stand out when they were first released has been flipped to "ewww girls ? they can't do anything" misogyny. There may or may not be an explicit cookies analogy, but they were bad enough it wouldn't have made the sequels much worse.
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May 11, 2021 08:41
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There's a big military sci-fi bundle over at storybundle. Legacy Marines by Jonathan P. Brazee Til Valhalla by Richard Fox Trouble in the Wind by Chris Kennedy & James Young Shadow Warriors Boxed Set by Nathan B. Dodge Cold War: Alien Storm by Julia Vee and Ken Bebelle Operation Grendel by Daniel Schwabauer Five By Five Boxed Set by Aaron Allston, Kevin J. Anderson, and more Cartwright's Cavaliers by Mark Wandrey Invasive Species by Ben Stevens Scorpion's Fury by C.H. Gideon Breach Team by J. R. Handley and Chris Winder Runs in the Family by Kevin Ikenberry Standing the Final Watch by William Alan Webb Anything good in here?
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May 20, 2021 14:20
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I just read Germline by T.C. McCarthy, and enjoyed it. Anyone read the sequels and know if they're any good?
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May 20, 2021 21:34
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Just finished reading a amazingly stupid book. It's non-fiction but totally fits here since I refuse to post in the Gip subforum. Book is called The spy who couldn't spell by Yudhijit Bhattacharjee. The titular spy was an idiot senior NCO in the US Air Force that managed to score a no-uniform required dream posting at the National Reconnaissance Office, then proceeded to gently caress everything up by being peak enlisted_stupidity.txt 24 hours a day/7 times a week/365 days a year. quantumfoam fucked around with this message at 23:52 on May 20, 2021 |
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May 20, 2021 23:29
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GD_American posted:I just read Germline by T.C. McCarthy, and enjoyed it. Anyone read the sequels and know if they're any good? More of the same, with some heart of darkness thrown in. Pretty hard to read in parts tbh but if you liked the first one keep going. Someone here said his other books are racist bit although I bought Tyger Burning I've never got around to reading it.
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May 26, 2021 07:31
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quantumfoam posted:Just finished reading a amazingly stupid book. This description feels really like someone had a work beef they couldn’t find another outlet for.
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May 26, 2021 07:50
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Nah, Brian Patrick Regan aka the dyslexic spy that tried to sell over 20,000 top secret+ documents to Iran/Libya in 2000 was an utter fuckup. Anything I describe him doing wouldn't do justice to his pure adherence to enlisted_stupidity.txt behavior. Only reason he's not too well known is because roughly 3 weeks after he got arrested the September 11th attacks happened, and everyone's priorities changed after that. Brian Patrick Regan got caught mostly because his 5 page angry rebuttal screed over an unfavorable work review by a female supervisor at the National Reconnaissance Office contained dozens of the same misspellings and mangled words that were also found inside a series of letters offering teaser satellite photos and a homebrewed cryptographic encipherment correspondence system mailed to the Iranian Washington DC embassy. Back on thread topic: Wizards of the mil-fiction and mil-scifi genres...How many mil-fiction/mil-scifi books or stories went ape-poo poo over the UK Hong Kong transfer to China in 1997 or the Panama Canal reverting back to Panamanian control in 1999? John Lecarre's Tailor of Panama made me realize that must be a entire subgenre of mil-fiction. quantumfoam fucked around with this message at 03:38 on May 27, 2021 |
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May 27, 2021 03:33
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quantumfoam posted:Brian Patrick Regan got caught mostly because his 5 page angry rebuttal screed over an unfavorable work review by a female supervisor at the National Reconnaissance Office contained dozens of the same misspellings and mangled words that were also found inside a series of letters offering teaser satellite photos and a homebrewed cryptographic encipherment correspondence system mailed to the Iranian Washington DC embassy. hahaha this is incredible
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May 27, 2021 15:10
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Doctor Jeep posted:hahaha this is incredible Oh you have no idea. It is peak enlisted_stupidity.txt worthy of a gold Olympics medal in the GIP Idiots thread. Get it from a library or something and read away. The dude dreamed up multiple "3 layers of obscurity" cryptographic cipher systems but kept forgetting the encoding keys to them. He was clever enough to pre-cache his "for sale" documents at multiple places but used his government issued Garmin GPS to note the locations. He wore gloves to avoid leaving fingerprints and DNA evidence in the "for sale" document stashes he created but then left a post-It note with his full name and NRO office contact details inside one of the stashes. quantumfoam fucked around with this message at 17:05 on May 27, 2021 |
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May 27, 2021 16:02
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I just read Into the Light by David Weber and Chris Kennedy, their sequel to Out of the Dark. The one where Dracula saved earth from an alien invasion. Its bad. Like Safehold bad. 90 percent of the book is people quipping at each other in conference rooms. Incredibly smug. The earth scientists have the library of one of the newest member species of a space empire that has a 100k year history, but everyone on earth is just so much smarter and braver. Near the beginning, they are talking about how the anti-gravity drives that are used for everything have so many safety features and backups because all the aliens are so cowardly. The humans can remove all these and increase the power and reduce size by incredible amounts. Then one of the scientists mentions that there was even a part of the drives to stop them from going in reverse(turning into blackholes) and how there was nothing in the library about the drives turning into blackholes, so he just assumes its another cowardly not needed safety backup. I thought it was going to be foreshadowing for a clever twist, that after they actually fight the alien empire, one of the aliens notices this change to the standard equipment and sends out a signal/radiation/whatever, that does start making all the earth ships just self destruct. But no that would be an actual challenge and a setback. Instead near the end, a scientist figures how to use the antigravity in reverse to get unlimited free energy and also a 10x - 100x faster FTL travel. In the book they never actually fight the advanced alien empire. Instead they go and visit sentient velociraptor planet that is at like 1930's earth level technology. Here there is one twist though, maybe from Chris Kennedy. On dinosaur planet there are two big coutries one a democracy and one a monarchy. And the Monarchy turns out to be bad. That is a big change from standard David Weber. While that was going on Dracula's space ship is heading to the advanced enemy system, but he literally only gets there on the last page of the book. The end.
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Jun 1, 2021 07:53
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Should rename the series "You fuckers will buy anything with David Weber's name on it, won't you?"
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Jun 1, 2021 19:32
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