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Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006
It is interesting that Barry tells Bruce that he was right about Clark, but from Barry's POV that means something different than we would believe in BvS. Barry's trying to remind Bruce to have faith that Superman is actually good.. or I dunno maybe it just doesn't make sense.

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Spacebump
Dec 24, 2003

Dallas Mavericks: Generations
Just warning everyone in this thread, the trailer for The Suicide Squad that dropped today makes a lot of the deaths obvious imo. If you want to go into the movie unspoiled, skip the trailer.

John Wick of Dogs
Mar 4, 2017

A real hellraiser


I think everybody is gonna live, they'll show up in the last scene with their arm in a sling with no explanation like GI Joe

MacheteZombie
Feb 4, 2007

John Wick of Dogs posted:

I think everybody is gonna live, they'll show up in the last scene with their arm in a sling with no explanation like GI Joe

Neck braces

Detective No. 27
Jun 7, 2006

Blood Boils posted:

Does he even do those? Like other than Rey's parentage, most of his other stuff doesn't feature twist-reveals or even mysteries.

He is the man behind Lost.

As fast as movies go, there was the whole Khan debacle from Star Trek Into Darkness. Trek 2009 was relatively straight forward for a reboot/prequel/sequel goes.

Blood Boils
Dec 27, 2006

Its not an S, on my planet it means QUIPS

Spacebump posted:

Just warning everyone in this thread, the trailer for The Suicide Squad that dropped today makes a lot of the deaths obvious imo. If you want to go into the movie unspoiled, skip the trailer.

I just hope Waller doesn't cap her tech guy for constantly saying how wacky everything is

Blood Boils
Dec 27, 2006

Its not an S, on my planet it means QUIPS

Detective No. 27 posted:

He is the man behind Lost.

As fast as movies go, there was the whole Khan debacle from Star Trek Into Darkness. Trek 2009 was relatively straight forward for a reboot/prequel/sequel goes.

Sure but I meant more his movie filmography.

Khan's presence isn't a mystery, his "reveal" is only to the characters within the story, we already know everything about him. And even Kirk and crew know he's a bad guy before they talk to him.

Detective No. 27
Jun 7, 2006

I keep thinking that Waller died in Suicide Squad but it's just that I'm remembering the Arrow version of the character who shot herself in the head because Suicide Squad was coming out and DC was really weird about having two versions of the same character in different places for a while.

MacheteZombie
Feb 4, 2007

Detective No. 27 posted:

I keep thinking that Waller died in Suicide Squad but it's just that I'm remembering the Arrow version of the character who shot herself in the head because Suicide Squad was coming out and DC was really weird about having two versions of the same character in different places for a while.

They had a solid version of dead shot in their show and killed him off stupidly

Babysitter Super Sleuth
Apr 26, 2012

my posts are as bad the Current Releases review of Gone Girl

Blood Boils posted:

Sure but I meant more his movie filmography.

Khan's presence isn't a mystery, his "reveal" is only to the characters within the story, we already know everything about him. And even Kirk and crew know he's a bad guy before they talk to him.

Khan was absolutely intended to be a ~wild shocking reveal,~ to the point that JJ actually straight up lied to people who asked if cumberbatch was playing khan.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!

Fun Shoe

Detective No. 27 posted:

He is the man behind Lost.

As fast as movies go, there was the whole Khan debacle from Star Trek Into Darkness. Trek 2009 was relatively straight forward for a reboot/prequel/sequel goes.

The first movie had a big surprise twist too when Nimoy showed up. They kept that hidden fairly well, iirc it wasn't widely known leading up to the release of the movie.

And yea Into Darkness was definitely meant as a surprise Wrath of Khan remake but it got leaked and the whole thing was ruined(I've grown to really like the movie though).

Robot Style
Jul 5, 2009

Into Darkness very nearly had something cool when Kirk and Khan teamed up to take down Admiral Robocop. I get that they couldn't really turn the genocidal tyrant into a good guy (though it didn't stop Discovery), but they could at least have saved his eventual betrayal until a sequel, so it would actually have some buildup.

Blood Boils
Dec 27, 2006

Its not an S, on my planet it means QUIPS

Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:

Khan was absolutely intended to be a ~wild shocking reveal,~ to the point that JJ actually straight up lied to people who asked if cumberbatch was playing khan.

I'm not talking about some marketing intention that wasn't a factor anyways. Like even if the character wasn't literally named Khan, that would still be who he is - the plot doesn't hinge on his identity as a mystery


Robot Style posted:

Into Darkness very nearly had something cool when Kirk and Khan teamed up to take down Admiral Robocop. I get that they couldn't really turn the genocidal tyrant into a good guy (though it didn't stop Discovery), but they could at least have saved his eventual betrayal until a sequel, so it would actually have some buildup.

I don't know if the team up would have made sense for either character to maintain for very long. Kirk still thinks Khan should face consequences for killing section 9 and high command including his mentor Pike. And Khan doesn't seem like the sort to leave witnesses if he can help it.

Robot Style
Jul 5, 2009

I mean, if they'd written it that way they'd definitley have to tone down all his earlier actions to make it believable, but "what if Kirk and Khan were friends" is a decent premise to feature in a series that's explicitly an alternate timeline.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Detective No. 27 posted:

I keep thinking that Waller died in Suicide Squad but it's just that I'm remembering the Arrow version of the character who shot herself in the head because Suicide Squad was coming out and DC was really weird about having two versions of the same character in different places for a while.

That reminds of how in Batman Begins there was a line of dialogue mentioning Metropolis not in any major way but because Smallville was still going and they felt people would be confused.

gregday
May 23, 2003

Neo Rasa posted:

That reminds of how in Batman Begins there was a line of dialogue mentioning Metropolis not in any major way but because Smallville was still going and they felt people would be confused.

No there’s not.

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

gregday posted:

No there’s not.
Yeah it's right after the scene where Batman makes a weird fist

Robot Style
Jul 5, 2009

Is this just misremembering Superman Returns again? Because Gotham is mentioned on a news broadcast in that movie.

Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006
I think it's just misremembering the Bat-Embargo that existed on the DC Animated Universe shows in which they were really restricted on naming Batman related characters as new Batman related cartoons and Teen Titans had started.

CelticPredator
Oct 11, 2013
🍀👽🆚🪖🏋

Robot Style posted:

Is this just misremembering Superman Returns again? Because Gotham is mentioned on a news broadcast in that movie.

It’s in the movie. I remember it.

CelticPredator
Oct 11, 2013
🍀👽🆚🪖🏋

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls_K1FNCDVA

29 seconds in

Arkage
Aug 10, 2008

Things fall apart;
the centre cannot hold
Rewatching Man of Steel, noticed his Dad wears the black suit. So maybe the black suit is also reflective of Superman feeling like he's stepping into his Dad's shoes or somesuch.

gregday
May 23, 2003


Yeah, not Batman Begins. The Nolan movies are not set in a world where aliens exist.

teagone
Jun 10, 2003

That was pretty intense, huh?

Arkage posted:

Rewatching Man of Steel, noticed his Dad wears the black suit. So maybe the black suit is also reflective of Superman feeling like he's stepping into his Dad's shoes or somesuch.

Arkage
Aug 10, 2008

Things fall apart;
the centre cannot hold

Eh I guess it's just to do with sunlight absorption then. And his Dad wore it since the sun was much weaker at Krypton.

Zzulu
May 15, 2009

(▰˘v˘▰)
Why would supermans clothes charge him more than, you know, his skin? Is his skin fused with the suit?

He should have flown up naked

josh04
Oct 19, 2008


"THE FLASH IS THE REASON
TO RACE TO THE THEATRES"

This title contains sponsored content.

I mean, agreed, but it's an allusion to how in physics black objects reflect the least light and so absorb the most light.

Julius CSAR
Oct 3, 2007

by sebmojo
I really love that bit where Steppenwolf flexes and just dislodges all the arrows from his armor. Super dope.

SuperMechagodzilla
Jun 9, 2007

NEWT REBORN

Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:

Khan was absolutely intended to be a ~wild shocking reveal,~ to the point that JJ actually straight up lied to people who asked if cumberbatch was playing khan.

People are mixing up different things because of memes.

The JJ “mystery box” concept is simply to avoid over-explaining your narrative, so that parts retain a certain mystique. Like, what’s in the Pulp Fiction briefcase? The audience doesn’t actually care what’s in the box because they already know that the answer is probably banal.

Rey’s parents, Khan, etc. - these are not mystery boxes, because they’re eventually explained. He’s Khan, she’s Palpatine. Whatever. That’s just some poo poo.

And before learning the answer, when people went insane wanting to know who Rey’s daddy is, that’s wasn’t ‘mystery box’ either. That was just rampant hype.

bushisms.txt
May 26, 2004

Scroll, then. There are other posts than these.


Arkage posted:

Eh I guess it's just to do with sunlight absorption then. And his Dad wore it since the sun was much weaker at Krypton.

There's another interview where he does talk about it being a krypton thing, you were right on.

quote:


“The black suit, you can say that in modern Krypton, when he left, everyone was wearing black suits. So it is sort of linked to, in some ways, the old world. I think it is a more direct relationship to his family. In a lot of ways, the blue suit, to me, represents his kind of place on Earth. The blue suit is his suit of a hero, the suit of his destiny, whereas the black suit is more personal in a lot of ways, more about his family. One is outward, and one is inward, and I think that those things, the expression of that could be – let’s put it this way. It was always my intention with the larger arc of the movies to realize that more completely, but I think you get a sense of it here.”
https://www.fortressofsolitude.co.za/the-importance-of-supermans-black-suit-in-zack-snyders-justice-league-explained/amp/

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!
What's interesting is that in some podcast interview he specified that it's after succumbing to the anti life equation that Superman puts the blue suit back on

Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012
Despite not being an Abrams venture, Star Trek: Discovery probably had the most blatant mystery box i've seen with The Burn, where what should have just been the mechanism to play with The End Of The Federation ended up being a large chunk (majority?) of the season.

(A dude crashed onto rocks while irradiated, and obtained the power to turn off rocks)

Detective No. 27
Jun 7, 2006

Discovery feels like it's trying real hard to crib from Doctor Who's mystery boxes, which are also terrible.

teagone
Jun 10, 2003

That was pretty intense, huh?

Just a reminder! ZSJL: Justice is Gray will be streaming tonight in the CineD Discord at 9PM Central.



Please remember to mute your mic if you plan to join! Also, for those who have access to HBO Max, I will be hosting a SCENER watch party if you'd rather sync your own stream. The scener room code will be posted in the #snack-snyders-slyders channel a few minutes before the stream goes live.

Assepoester
Jul 18, 2004
Probation
Can't post for 11 years!
Melman v2

John Wick of Dogs posted:

Rian didn't get replaced, though the guy directing the third one, Colin Trevorrow, had worked with Rian to come up with the basic story of the third onee that would hook up with his, and he got replaced after he put out one weird bad movie, which seems crazy to me. I can't think of a Trevorrow film I actually like, but even Rob Reiner put out North. I thought every director gets one freebie dumb poo poo passion project.

But Disney did Star Wars the same way WB did DC after that. "Abandon all plans, freak out, make it exactly like a Marvel movie in tone, and hit these specific plot beats so Twitter won't be mad at us, and quickly minimize the parts of minorities!" more or less.
Bingo. That's exactly how he was replaced. Imagine if we had 2 hours of Zack Snyder's Justice League for the first half and then Whedon took over for the remaining two hours? That's exactly what we got.

Here's a fan-comic based on the early drafts of the original story: https://awinegarner.squarespace.com/duel-of-the-fates

Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006

SuperMechagodzilla posted:

People are mixing up different things because of memes.

The JJ “mystery box” concept is simply to avoid over-explaining your narrative, so that parts retain a certain mystique. Like, what’s in the Pulp Fiction briefcase? The audience doesn’t actually care what’s in the box because they already know that the answer is probably banal.
One of his actual examples is the cascading mysteries of Obi-Wan Kenobi in Star Wars, so that's not really true. The biggest misconception of Abrams whole thing is that Mystery Box has been taken as a genre in of itself where it's really more of a mental model for how he views drama and filmmaking. He uses the notion of a Mystery Box to refer to:

-- Actual mysteries that are eventually solved or whodunits
-- Withholding of information for dramatic effect with no intention to explain the mystery
-- Deep themes in genre fiction
-- Playing with expectations
-- Camera trickery

John Wick of Dogs
Mar 4, 2017

A real hellraiser


JJ and Whedon both are not fully to blame. They were given impossible demands and schedules and very specific bullet points they had to hit in the meantime.

Whedon I give a lot more blame cause he was really lovely about it and a lot of the stuff in Josstice is his own bullshit. JJ more or less seems to have done what he could with what he was given, and probably even less control, with respect for the people he was working with.

John Wick of Dogs
Mar 4, 2017

A real hellraiser


Just finished the second chapter of Justice is Grey by the way and I really dig it. Everything is a lot more otherworldly. The only scene so far I didn't think worked very well was the Wonder Woman fight in London, but everything else about that scene was really cool.

Roman
Aug 8, 2002

Justice is Grey is a fun thing for the fans because you get to feel like you're watching the secret movie Snyder kept on his laptop but I'm probably never going to watch that version again.

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roffels
Jul 27, 2004

Yo Taxi!

Robot Style posted:

Is this just misremembering Superman Returns again? Because Gotham is mentioned on a news broadcast in that movie.

Metropolis is mentioned in Batman Forever - "The circus must be halfway to Metropolis by now!"

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