Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
SuperTeeJay
Jun 14, 2015

Darko posted:

He phased through it which is another B.S. Flash is broken power.
ZSJL has prompted me to rewatch the old JLU cartoon and it's almost frustrating to see a Flash who is drawn as a blur but seems to be moving at 50mph and runs into obstacles that are placed in front of him. If only he went faster all the time - each episode could be one minute of setup and then a single slow motion sequence of the Flash undoing it.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice

Darko posted:

I figured Bruce *did* realize the inspiration, which is why Diana gave a knowing jab at said inspiration.

Considering the first time he even saw her in action she saved him from Doomsday's eye laser with the somewhat ambiguous usage of her bracers, yeah I'd say the direct line is drawn there.

Zzulu
May 15, 2009

(▰˘v˘▰)
I think overpowered powers like that get less interesting once they can use it to do anything. Flash is so fast he basically stops time and can even reverse it. No one can really do anything against a time wizard who can just decide to "stop you". Flash could probably have just put a bomb down Steppenwolfs mouth to solve that problem while time was frozen

You either need plot armor or equally convoluted overpowered magic powers to do anything against it.

I think Marvel did "powerlevels" a bit better in movies since even a guy like Thor or Hulk can be smashed and beaten quite often. Superman seems untouchable in comparison and Flash at "full power" seems even worse

Gatts
Jan 2, 2001

Goodnight Moon

Nap Ghost
The “overpowered” excuse is a fault of the limitations of the writer/creator and his/her lack of imagination. And if all superhero stories are just about a villain bashing a hero versus other stories that can be told then it doesn’t speak cool of the demands/expectations of the audience.

Besides, Barry was hit by a weapon and stopped and had to go through extraordinary lengths to reverse everything

Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006

Darko posted:

I figured Bruce *did* realize the inspiration, which is why Diana gave a knowing jab at said inspiration.
I mean Alfred says it was Batman's idea so I don't think that's true.

But I think we can all agree that it's very funny that Batman's don't actually work as well.

KVeezy3
Aug 18, 2005

Airport Music for Black Folk

Zzulu posted:

I think overpowered powers like that get less interesting once they can use it to do anything. Flash is so fast he basically stops time and can even reverse it. No one can really do anything against a time wizard who can just decide to "stop you". Flash could probably have just put a bomb down Steppenwolfs mouth to solve that problem while time was frozen

You either need plot armor or equally convoluted overpowered magic powers to do anything against it.

I think Marvel did "powerlevels" a bit better in movies since even a guy like Thor or Hulk can be smashed and beaten quite often. Superman seems untouchable in comparison and Flash at "full power" seems even worse

I don't agree that flattening everyone's 'power-levels' automatically makes for better superhero stories. I get that it makes for nice spectacle because we get to bask in everyone participating equally, but the narrative of Snyder's trilogy is structured around how truly awesome Superman's power is. Meanwhile, Captain America goes from struggling to fight Loki to giving Thanos a run for his money.

Neurolimal posted:

A lot of epilogue critiques I've seen have focused on the apocalypse & Lex bits, but I really think the Martian Manhunter bit is a real waste of a shapeshifting hero. I feel like you could do a lot more with their meetup than floating down and saying "hey i'm inspired, let me help".

A major theme of the Snyder Cut is disconnection/reconnection.

The film begins with the Amazons sending a warning to the rest of the world of imminent danger, but only one person on the entire planet is capable of receiving it, where it then becomes Wonder Woman’s burden to be its mediator. Victor Stone’s strained relationship with his father, both before/after his rebirth is filled with resentment because they can’t talk to each other. The Flash is fiercely dedicated to proving the innocence of his father, and as a result becomes isolated from people. Aquaman, as a man of two worlds, feels abandoned for dead by his mother, and so feels hatred for and refuses to represent that lineage. They’re all people with incredible power and try their best to do good, but it’s their alienation that limits their possibilities, and it’s through their connection to one another that lets them achieve the impossible.

We’re shown Martha and Lois both grieving over Clark’s death, but entirely separately. Neither of them wants to be a burden on the other, and so suffer alone. A fictional character’s ability to shapeshift is mostly used for espionage and deception, but an interesting thing about this film is its simple usage to convey truth. Martian Manhunter can see that both these people are suffering and intervenes to reconnect these two to each other and the rest of the world.

KVeezy3 fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Mar 29, 2021

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:

Zzulu posted:

I think overpowered powers like that get less interesting once they can use it to do anything. Flash is so fast he basically stops time and can even reverse it. No one can really do anything against a time wizard who can just decide to "stop you". Flash could probably have just put a bomb down Steppenwolfs mouth to solve that problem while time was frozen

You either need plot armor or equally convoluted overpowered magic powers to do anything against it.

I think Marvel did "powerlevels" a bit better in movies since even a guy like Thor or Hulk can be smashed and beaten quite often. Superman seems untouchable in comparison and Flash at "full power" seems even worse
I feel like a difference between how they're portrayed (in the movies at least) is that the Marvel characters are more like straight up just a scale of relative power, whereas Snyder's heroes operate on different playing fields. Flash can run back in time, but then Cyborg has to take back over to actually fix things again, because Flash isn't a cube whisperer.

Basically, they're needed as individuals in their collective endeavor, where the Marvel heroes are more about just putting enough brawn on the battlefield to overwhelm the opponent. Bruce, Diana and Arthur do fall more into the "just put brawn on the battlefield" category, but at least the former two are an important nucleus around which the more important pieces unite.

Timeless Appeal posted:

I mean Alfred says it was Batman's idea so I don't think that's true.

But I think we can all agree that it's very funny that Batman's don't actually work as well.
Alfred is not omniscient. He might have assumed it was Batman's idea because he brought it up, without Bruce ever claiming that was the case.

Darko
Dec 23, 2004

Timeless Appeal posted:

I mean Alfred says it was Batman's idea so I don't think that's true.

But I think we can all agree that it's very funny that Batman's don't actually work as well.

I think Batman just didn't tell him where he got the idea, which is part of the joke.

Darko
Dec 23, 2004

Zzulu posted:

I think overpowered powers like that get less interesting once they can use it to do anything. Flash is so fast he basically stops time and can even reverse it. No one can really do anything against a time wizard who can just decide to "stop you". Flash could probably have just put a bomb down Steppenwolfs mouth to solve that problem while time was frozen

You either need plot armor or equally convoluted overpowered magic powers to do anything against it.

I think Marvel did "powerlevels" a bit better in movies since even a guy like Thor or Hulk can be smashed and beaten quite often. Superman seems untouchable in comparison and Flash at "full power" seems even worse

Flash has always been that way in the comics and is clearly the most powerful member of the League when written at his max. Therefore, you create enemies and situations that work around his speed or nerf him.

In big giant events like Final Crisis, the Flash's are booted off to go do some other thing that had to be done (in that case, racing Death itself) while everyone else is working on a main task. This movie followed a combo of both where a) Barry was scared of going fast enough to mess with time, and b) he was put on power duty because they HAD to generate enough power to break the boxes apart.

Also kind of shows you the disparity between them and Zeus, who could break it apart by charging his lightning for a minute.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised.
Feels like it's almost cheating to have the predecessors to the Justice League be literally the Greek Gods.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!
Listening to the chapo trap house ep on this movie, and they poke fun at Snyder's reverence for the characters by characterizing the history lesson as "Green Lantern hangs out with Zeus"

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 11 hours!
It's very much in the spirit of Grant Morrison. His version had way more obscure references to the Golden Age and the specific era of 70s JLA he was most into.

PeterCat
Apr 8, 2020

Believe women.

It's Holy Week so let's remember that Jor-El so loved the world he gave his only Son (begotten, not made), to be a savior of the world.

That Son suffered, died and was buried, and in the third movie rose from the dead to save us from the fires of hell.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

ghostwritingduck
Aug 26, 2004

"I hope you like waking up at 6 a.m. and having your favorite things destroyed. P.S. Forgive me because I'm cuter than that $50 wire I just ate."

sethsez posted:

I agree with all of this, which is why I find the Knightmare sections a bit incongruous and the intended plan for JL2 and 3 somewhat redundant. We've already arrived at the end of a trilogy in which the protagonists have gone through the worst and come out the other side bruised and battered but wiser and more self-assured. As much as I want to see Snyder continue in this universe, I have no real desire to see these characters broken down emotionally again, especially to the degree it appears they were going to be.

One of the interesting things about the Batman/Joker scene is the confirmation that Batman doesn’t break again. When he tells the Joker he’s going to kill him, the Joker realizes he’s bluffing indicating that Batman doesn’t snap again.

MacheteZombie
Feb 4, 2007

PeterCat posted:

save us from the fires of hell.

tbd

Assepoester
Jul 18, 2004
Probation
Can't post for 11 years!
Melman v2

fatherboxx posted:

Still gets wrecked by a hobo with boomerang, turtle man and a dude who learned to spin really really fast
Flash is the best superhero
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muU6boslNcA

Blood Boils
Dec 27, 2006

Its not an S, on my planet it means QUIPS

ghostwritingduck posted:

One of the interesting things about the Batman/Joker scene is the confirmation that Batman doesn’t break again. When he tells the Joker he’s going to kill him, the Joker realizes he’s bluffing indicating that Batman doesn’t snap again.

So that's why he double crosses him with the lightbulb later

runaway dog
Dec 11, 2005

I rarely go into the field, motherfucker.
I hope in the flash movie theres a moment where he goes back in time and it's the whedon cut and he's like WHAT MADNESS IS THIS.

Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012

Wally West still the best flash, so good Geoff renamed him Barry

Super-NintendoUser
Jan 16, 2004

COWABUNGERDER COMPADRES
Soiled Meat

PeterCat posted:

It's Holy Week so let's remember that Jor-El so loved the world he gave his only Son (begotten, not made), to be a savior of the world.

That Son suffered, died and was buried, and in the third movie rose from the dead to save us from the fires of hell.



Find a single shot like this in an Iron Mans movie. Do it. I dare you.

Alexander Hamilton
Dec 29, 2008
Superman making a cross over the Earth when he comes back to life in Justice League rules so much.

John Wick of Dogs
Mar 4, 2017

A real hellraiser


ghostwritingduck posted:

One of the interesting things about the Batman/Joker scene is the confirmation that Batman doesn’t break again. When he tells the Joker he’s going to kill him, the Joker realizes he’s bluffing indicating that Batman doesn’t snap again.

I just wish after Joker said "But I'm your best friend!" instead of saying "besides, who else is going to give you a reach around?" he just started laughing and Batman just started laughing too.

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008

He's embracing the world and is going to love humanity the same way his parents loved him. He's become their light, their monument and whatever else they need him to be. That whole sequence is perfect.

John Wick of Dogs
Mar 4, 2017

A real hellraiser


And he's not doing it because he owes it to them. He's doing it because he wants to.

PeterCat
Apr 8, 2020

Believe women.

Jimbot posted:

He's embracing the world and is going to love humanity the same way his parents loved him. He's become their light, their monument and whatever else they need him to be. That whole sequence is perfect.

This made me wonder which church Clark went to as a kid. He's obviously friends with the local priest, probably grew up with him, but I don't think the Kents were Catholics. More likely that Jonathon got in an argument with the local priest/pastor and the family stopped attending whatever church they went to.

Jonathan, being Kevin Costner, was actually right the whole time, and had to remind the priest of that after the priest eventually figured out that he was wrong.

Kevin Costner's characters are always arrogantly right, and are usually assholes about it.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised.
Apparently Batman is considered Catholic in the comics (in some versions) as a convert, since his father was Episcopalian and his mother was Jewish. I presume only Catholic churches were goth enough for him.

I have said, sufficiently dedicated Catholicism is indistinguishable from being hella goth, and vice versa.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:

PeterCat posted:

This made me wonder which church Clark went to as a kid. He's obviously friends with the local priest, probably grew up with him, but I don't think the Kents were Catholics. More likely that Jonathon got in an argument with the local priest/pastor and the family stopped attending whatever church they went to.

Jonathan, being Kevin Costner, was actually right the whole time, and had to remind the priest of that after the priest eventually figured out that he was wrong.

Kevin Costner's characters are always arrogantly right, and are usually assholes about it.
“I could totally have raised Jesus right.”

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

Don't Blink

Jerk McJerkface posted:

Find a single shot like this in an Iron Mans movie. Do it. I dare you.

Not an Iron Mans, but Thor 3 has a solid four minutes of visually interesting action during some exposition.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 11 hours!

Neurolimal posted:

Wally West still the best flash,

Alexander Hamilton
Dec 29, 2008

PeterCat posted:

This made me wonder which church Clark went to as a kid. He's obviously friends with the local priest, probably grew up with him, but I don't think the Kents were Catholics. More likely that Jonathon got in an argument with the local priest/pastor and the family stopped attending whatever church they went to.

I think the priest Clark goes to talk to is probably Lutheran, not Catholic. That’s my guess, anyway.

Julius CSAR
Oct 3, 2007

by sebmojo
Most small town Kansans are Methodist, probably followed by Lutherans, and Catholics at a far third place. Catholics are far more represented in the cities and their suburbs though.

PeterCat
Apr 8, 2020

Believe women.

Julius CSAR posted:

Most small town Kansans are Methodist, probably followed by Lutherans, and Catholics at a far third place. Catholics are far more represented in the cities and their suburbs though.

Slightly different than Iowa then, which I am more familiar with.

Almost Blue
Apr 18, 2018
I thought the priest was supposed to be one of the bullies from when Clark was a kid?

roffels
Jul 27, 2004

Yo Taxi!

Almost Blue posted:

I thought the priest was supposed to be one of the bullies from when Clark was a kid?

I don't think so, but the ihop manager definitely was!

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!
Hmm maybe. Neither of them looks like a kid version of the priest like the kid version of Pete looks like the adult version, but I like the idea of Clark seeking advice from one of his childhood bullies

Megaman's Jockstrap
Jul 16, 2000

What a horrible thread to have a post.
The IHOP manager being a reformed bully who still doesn't have the guts to stand up to Clark's tormenters but is still decent enough to offer his hand afterwards rang very true to me, and is a nice early riff on the "inspiring people to be better, even if they stumble" theme.

massive spider
Dec 6, 2006

It bothers me that Synder gets attacked as not getting Superman when Whedons Superman is a complete prick. His lines attacking Batman after getting resurrected ('do YOU bleed?') read as knowingly vindictive, where Snydersupe just seems attacking because he's confused.

When he's back to normal at the end of the movie- Superman quipping and smiling often reads as smug because he's doing it from such a place of obvious power and privilege. Its often too much like when a Superman-expy like Homelander makes a quip and flashes a grin and its supposed to make you hate them. Snyder supe is often stone faced and serious, but he treats it as a serious job.

massive spider fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Mar 29, 2021

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!
It was wild that Whedon Superman had a lucid conversation with Batman before deciding to kill him. What the gently caress!

hiddenriverninja
May 10, 2013

life is locomotion
keep moving
trust that you'll find your way

2house2fly posted:

It was wild that Whedon Superman had a lucid conversation with Batman before deciding to kill him. What the gently caress!

He really wanted to confirm if Bruce bled.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Augus
Mar 9, 2015


massive spider posted:

It bothers me that Synder gets attacked as not getting Superman when Whedons Superman is a complete prick. His lines attacking Batman after getting resurrected ('do YOU bleed?') read as knowingly vindictive, where Snydersupe just seems attacking because he's confused.

they never said which version of Superman they were talking about

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply