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ThinkTank posted:Laine reminds me very much of Dany Heatley. An all world talent when on a line with a playmaking centre and a complete winger, largely ineffectual when not. Not every winger on earth can be Mark Stone. Sometimes you have to accept guys have limitations and focus on maximizing their good qualities instead of making likely futile attempts to improve their bad ones. Oh, that's a good comparison. Like when Heatley came to Minnesota and put up 20 goals the first year and then barely broke double digits the next two. That was fun. :/ The papers were all "Former 50 goal scorer" and "Finally some more scoring depth" and then it tanked hard.
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Mar 29, 2021 17:50
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Good Soldier Svejk posted:Zohorna and Matheson let's make it happen boys. Throw Sceviour in just 'cause
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Mar 29, 2021 17:52
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rex rabidorum vires posted:Come to Pittsburgh for spare pieces Should've done that before JR left so he could use his Jedi Mind Tricks to sell Jarmo on the deal. He had to have something left in the tank for one last fleecing.
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Mar 29, 2021 17:54
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Jhet posted:Oh, that's a good comparison. Like when Heatley came to Minnesota and put up 20 goals the first year and then barely broke double digits the next two. That was fun. :/ The papers were all "Former 50 goal scorer" and "Finally some more scoring depth" and then it tanked hard. Heatley had such a weird career. He came back from the car crash and resulting media firestorm that would've derailed the careers of a lot of guys to post back to back 100pt seasons at 24/25 but was somehow completely cooked five years later. He's the anti Jagr.
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Mar 29, 2021 17:56
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heatley made a brief stopover in the AHL on his way down and I saw him in a game in OKC. it was crazy how clear it was he had no interest in being there.
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Mar 29, 2021 17:59
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ThinkTank posted:Laine reminds me very much of Dany Heatley. An all world talent when on a line with a playmaking centre and a complete winger, largely ineffectual when not. Not every winger on earth can be Mark Stone. Sometimes you have to accept guys have limitations and focus on maximizing their good qualities instead of making likely futile attempts to improve their bad ones. That's true, but he is only 22 years old. He became a more complete player every subsequent year he was on the Jets, even if his numbers dipped. So it's not like he's incapable of improving his overall game. Some guys just take longer to flesh out.
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Mar 29, 2021 18:07
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Hot take: a 30-goal winger is good enough for the NHL as is and you can find 10 more guys on any team that can 'give more' before you have to worry about how defensively responsible he needs to be. Laine's problems are 90% inflated expectations thanks to a dipshit tsn commentator overhyping him to drum up a rivalry with another guy who had the benefit of sharing the burden of his hype with three other elite good forwards and also not being a European.
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Mar 29, 2021 18:55
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Don't know if anyone's mentioned it but Laine and Ovi who says no
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Mar 29, 2021 18:59
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https://twitter.com/RyanHanaWWP/status/1376591323717890049 The most expected trade of the year might be happening! Ken Holland's gonna bid against himself at the trade deadline!
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Mar 29, 2021 19:13
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Yeah Laine suffers from a bit of biased evaluation because Pronman and Button decided to stir the pot. It’s not really an issue that he turned out to be a 2/3 pick instead of a 1B in terms of how the draft shook out, like, there are some pretty big duds in that top 10 and from pick 3 onward how many guys can you argue have had clearly better careers to this point.
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Mar 29, 2021 19:19
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AsInHowe posted:-tweet- Luke Glendening gives me serious Jerred Smithson 2.0 vibes, so I fully expect the Oilers to trade their 2022 3rd for him.
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Mar 29, 2021 19:25
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Torts won exactly one cup before the lockout on a veritable Allstar team and even then his team barely scraped by the craptacular Calgary Flames. I'll take his assessment that a player who's been a consistent top end goal scorer actually sucks because he doesn't hook guys' hands on the back check enough with a pretty serious grain of salt.
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Mar 29, 2021 19:29
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Call Your Grandma posted:Hot take: a 30-goal winger is good enough for the NHL as is and you can find 10 more guys on any team that can 'give more' before you have to worry about how defensively responsible he needs to be. I disagree with some of that but it doesn't matter. I think Laine's main problem is Laine. He's very hard on himself. He's also incredibly honest in interviews, so if he says his confidence is at 0, it really is at 0. He has to develop the mental fortitude to not get so down on himself when he doesn't score because it seems very much to compound over and over until you end up with 1 goal in 15 games. Laine's problem is not other people who talk about Laine. That's everyone else's problem.
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Mar 29, 2021 19:55
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ThinkTank posted:Heatley had such a weird career. He came back from the car crash and resulting media firestorm that would've derailed the careers of a lot of guys to post back to back 100pt seasons at 24/25 but was somehow completely cooked five years later. He's the anti Jagr.
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Mar 29, 2021 20:09
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Scaramouche posted:Don't know if anyone's mentioned it but Laine and Ovi who says no Caps already have a floaty scoring winger who they can't be bothered to give more than 10 minutes of ice time to.
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Mar 29, 2021 20:37
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Spring Break My Heart posted:When he got traded to the Sharks lots of people ran with the idea that he was going to score 70 goals. Sounds like those folks knew what they were talking about, Heatley had exactly seventy goals as a member of the San Jose Sharks. 
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Mar 29, 2021 20:40
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Again, I'll accept the Laine criticism when the media and coaches turn on a defensively responsible player and screed on about his lack of finish and why he isn't in on the rush and when will they crack 30 goals. Laine is an elite talent and a streaky one (like most pure scorers). Ripping him for not back checking hard enough is stupid. Try and make him a better play but loving recognize what you're working with. Also, I like torts because of his protection of his team (well, the "good ol boys" at least) and how he fucks with the media but anyone paying any kind of attention to his body of work knows he's a big dumb baby with a definitive shelf life in any org.
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Mar 29, 2021 21:31
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Laine needs 50 before he's a good enough goal scorer to cover for the rest.Cocaine Bear posted:Again, I'll accept the Laine criticism when the media and coaches turn on a defensively responsible player and screed on about his lack of finish and why he isn't in on the rush and when will they crack 30 goals. That was Couturier for 6 years.
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Mar 29, 2021 21:37
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https://youtu.be/6NZHmcO_G5k “Don Cherry defended my dignity on Hockey Night In Canada.” Cartoon Man fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Mar 29, 2021 |
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Mar 29, 2021 22:08
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I watched Laine play for years in Winnipeg and have no idea what the right take on him is. Seeing him live, his shot is on a whole other level from other pros. But, his play elsewhere was mostly standing still and losing the puck at his own blue line. I know he can make really nice passes sometimes, and he can hit for a game or two when he gets put on a top line, but then that stops. I’m not sure if his skating is really bad, or if he has that Mario ability to look like he is Barry moving, because he is so big. Do advanced stats say he is a positive player? My eye test says that even if he is getting 30 goals, there is no way that makes up for his line producing no offensive chances besides those. I just don’t know how he fits onto a team, when salary cap crunch is on for basically every team in the league.
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Mar 29, 2021 22:14
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Call Your Grandma posted:Hot take: a 30-goal winger is good enough for the NHL as is and you can find 10 more guys on any team that can 'give more' before you have to worry about how defensively responsible he needs to be. This got me thinking so I fired up excel to do some totals and dumb comparisons and moral of the story is that Laine really is the new Phil Kessel. In his career Phil is a +18 goals for at 5v5. Unsurprisingly Phil's 'worst' year 5v5 was his last year in Toronto where he was on the ice for a -22 goal dif at evens. Even in that awful year at 5v5 Phil put up 25 points on the powerplay. With 6 goals against on the PP though so Phil ends up with a -3 overall contribution between these two arbitrary metrics. Something also 'funny' about Kessel is that he has this weird thing where he's pretty consistent about outperforming xG. Put it down to shooting 'skill' and play making I guess. With that in mind Laine's 5v5 outcomes are pretty similar. First 2 years: +7 and +18 goals for at 5v5. -14 his 3rd year and then a +4 the following season. This season in 26 games Laine is a -10. That gives a balance of +5 overall. What is interesting is that until this year Laine has outperformed xG with actual outcomes pretty significantly. However, unlike Phil....Laine does not drive play. At all. Dude is a negative corsi and corsi rel player through and through. Additionally, Laine does not appear to be as good a creator/passer as Phil. All of this leads me to conclude that Laine is more of a net positive than I was giving him credit for...but, as we've gone over a lot there are tons of downside with him. Being so young I could theoretically see him rounding into Phil 2.0 with some actual helpful coaching and some guidance.
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Mar 29, 2021 22:20
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2 weeks until the trade deadline, and we just got a  MASSIVE TRADE https://twitter.com/Media_Sens/status/1376645351730511875
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Mar 29, 2021 22:21
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So tonight is one of the Leafs’ “Next Gen” games, where the broadcast is tailored to a younger audience than is typical, which in the past has meant normal player headshots being replaced with cartoon caricatures. This year... well, open for a surprise https://twitter.com/tictactomar/status/1376651313807818756?s=21
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Mar 29, 2021 22:48
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Did they use kids to make their 3D models too?
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Mar 29, 2021 22:53
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ThinkTank posted:Heatley had such a weird career. He came back from the car crash and resulting media firestorm that would've derailed the careers of a lot of guys to post back to back 100pt seasons at 24/25 but was somehow completely cooked five years later. He's the anti Jagr. Is it that unusual? I have always assumed that guys who are known for their goal scoring can sometimes become cooked as soon as they hit their thirties. I am thinking of names like Gaborik, Perry, and Benn may be the most recent example. Obviously there's a lot more to consider, and each player is unique, but I don't think it's that unusual to see Heatley become cooked that early.
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Mar 29, 2021 22:58
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https://twitter.com/frank_seravalli/status/1376655551715807236
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Mar 29, 2021 23:06
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The overall outcomes may be similar but I would much rather have Kessel than Laine. Kessel is a good puck handler and passer, Laine is not, and Kessel actually does stuff in his own end as long as it doesn't involve ever making contact with another player or an airborne puck. That drives coaches nuts but it's still a lot more defensive contribution than Laine gives you. Laine is probably the best shooter on Earth besides Ovechkin but Kessel is a pretty good shot too and a better overall player. It's hard to find anyone to compare to Laine, really. If he were even a Heatley/Perry caliber shooter he wouldn't even be in the league, or at best he'd be having Galchenyuk's career. But the dude is something drat close to an automatic 30 PP goals a year (if you just let him focus on what he's on this Earth to do and quit jerking him around over his refusal to do anything else) and that makes him worth putting up with.
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Mar 29, 2021 23:14
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Also keep in mind that Kessel's purported failings were largely a creation of the Toronto media. He doesn't go in corners, sure, but he's an iron man because of it.
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Mar 29, 2021 23:31
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Having someone fly when they have fracture is normally not a great idea, so that's kinda weird.
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Mar 29, 2021 23:44
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Koopa Kid posted:So tonight is one of the Leafs’ “Next Gen” games, where the broadcast is tailored to a younger audience than is typical, which in the past has meant normal player headshots being replaced with cartoon caricatures. do this full time
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Mar 29, 2021 23:50
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Koopa Kid posted:This year... well, open for a surprise Well, uhhh... OK? Lmfao.
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Mar 30, 2021 00:04
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https://twitter.com/broadstbull/status/1376664236789743624?s=21 Holy poo poo Sam you can gently caress alllllllll the way off with this
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Mar 30, 2021 00:50
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Did all of the defensemen also split with their longtime sports psychologists?
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Mar 30, 2021 00:53
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-edit- oops not the gdt
Stretch Marx fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Mar 30, 2021 |
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Mar 30, 2021 01:00
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DJExile posted:https://twitter.com/broadstbull/status/1376664236789743624?s=21 holy poo poo what a loving rear end in a top hat
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Mar 30, 2021 01:04
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The Philadelphia Flyers
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Mar 30, 2021 01:05
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In retrospect I probably should have taken all those Rangers fans more seriously when they said AV doesn't have the foggiest idea how defense works and was only ever bailed out by Hall of Fame goaltending in Vancouver and New York.
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Mar 30, 2021 01:21
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Mar 30, 2021 01:26
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The flyers are getting boatraced by the worst team in hockey by a loving mile snarky rangers AS comment about AV right after this post E: loving lol https://twitter.com/enitolliug/status/1376692320930820096
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Mar 30, 2021 01:28
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