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Phenotype
Jul 24, 2007

You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance.



bushisms.txt posted:

Snyder says in an interview that swanwick has always been MMs alternate identity not some random he met.


Starts at 21:00 in

https://youtu.be/8qBQvwXLoQk

He doesn't say that Martha hasn't always been MM's alternate identity, though. Until I see a movie showing otherwise, J'onn and Jonathan have been living happily together at the farm in Smallville for years before Clark shows up, and maybe he shapeshifts into Swanwick to keep his hand in.

J'onn J'onnz is Superman's mom.

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Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006

John Wick of Dogs posted:

Swanwick is probably a real person that J'onn met and took his identity when he died. That's his general backstory. This military guy or scientist found his ship, J'onn morphed into his true form and the dude got so scared he had a heart attack and died. So then J'onn took his identity and resolved to hide his true self.
"I have gone by many names, some have called me... Dick Whitman."

bushisms.txt
May 26, 2004

Scroll, then. There are other posts than these.


Phenotype posted:

He doesn't say that Martha hasn't always been MM's alternate identity, though. Until I see a movie showing otherwise, J'onn and Jonathan have been living happily together at the farm in Smallville for years before Clark shows up, and maybe he shapeshifts into Swanwick to keep his hand in.

J'onn J'onnz is Superman's mom.

But now you're saying MM could've saved Jonathan and didn't. The dude can literally go invisible.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

bushisms.txt posted:

But now you're saying MM could've saved Jonathan and didn't. The dude can literally go invisible.

"She's a proud woman."

Pirate Jet
May 2, 2010
The Swanwick thing does confuse me. If he was planned to be MM from the very beginning, doesn’t that clash with what Snyder said where he wanted the cameo at the end of ZSJL to be John Stewart?

Megaman's Jockstrap
Jul 16, 2000

What a horrible thread to have a post.
Snyder didn't know Swanwick was MM until after BvS. The scene at the end was shot in such a way that it could be either a Lantern or MM (Affleck's reactions are neutral) and Snyder wanted Jon Stewart. When he couldn't get WB approval for the Lantern, he did MM.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Megaman's Jockstrap posted:

Snyder didn't know Swanwick was MM until after BvS. The scene at the end was shot in such a way that it could be either a Lantern or MM (Affleck's reactions are neutral) and Snyder wanted Jon Stewart. When he couldn't get WB approval for the Lantern, he did MM.

Should have had the same scene but at the end Manhunter's like "maybe a more costumed human look would be less intimidating to the people of earth" and he just turns into Swanwick in a Green Lantern outfit.

Name Change
Oct 9, 2005


I'm going to choose to believe that Batman being completely bored and annoyed by yet another demigod is 100% intentional though.

Almost Blue
Apr 18, 2018

Megaman's Jockstrap posted:

Snyder didn't know Swanwick was MM until after BvS. The scene at the end was shot in such a way that it could be either a Lantern or MM (Affleck's reactions are neutral) and Snyder wanted Jon Stewart. When he couldn't get WB approval for the Lantern, he did MM.

Was that scene shot last year or was that just the knightmare stuff? Ben Affleck looked different to me, so I wasn't sure.

Megaman's Jockstrap
Jul 16, 2000

What a horrible thread to have a post.

Almost Blue posted:

Was that scene shot last year or was that just the knightmare stuff? Ben Affleck looked different to me, so I wasn't sure.

The only additional shooting was for the Knightmare scene; the MM/Lantern scene was filmed back in 2016.

bushisms.txt
May 26, 2004

Scroll, then. There are other posts than these.


Pirate Jet posted:

The Swanwick thing does confuse me. If he was planned to be MM from the very beginning, doesn’t that clash with what Snyder said where he wanted the cameo at the end of ZSJL to be John Stewart?

The end scene and the Martha scene aren't connected by anything but convenience. He'd already shot both and they said no to GL, so he just retrofit MM. It's why Affleck's dialogue is so reactive.

Sodomy Hussein posted:

I'm going to choose to believe that Batman being completely bored and annoyed by yet another demigod is 100% intentional though.

Most definitely, it's the closing of Bruce's arc. Glowing green men come to visit and he's just worried his tea is getting cold.

bushisms.txt fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Mar 30, 2021

Assepoester
Jul 18, 2004
Probation
Can't post for 11 years!
Melman v2
I'd imagine he's mostly annoyed that this guy only showed up after the world ending cataclysm that nearly killed everyone

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:
Glad to see people have accepted that Martha is MM.

bushisms.txt posted:

But now you're saying MM could've saved Jonathan and didn't. The dude can literally go invisible.
Him doing the “don’t save me” thing was actually directed at Martha.

pospysyl
Nov 10, 2012



The United States posted:

I'd imagine he's mostly annoyed that this guy only showed up after the world ending cataclysm that nearly killed everyone

"Wow, Batman, you haven't found the Anti-Life Equation yet? Better get on that, clocks ticking."

Darko
Dec 23, 2004

A Buttery Pastry posted:

Glad to see people have accepted that Martha is MM.

Him doing the “don’t save me” thing was actually directed at Martha.

Explains why she and Jonathan couldn't have kids of their own.

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003

pospysyl posted:

"Wow, Batman, you haven't found the Anti-Life Equation yet? Better get on that, clocks ticking."

Ok sure buddy "we" will find it, glad to have you onboard to state the frickin' obvious

massive spider
Dec 6, 2006

The United States posted:

I'd imagine he's mostly annoyed that this guy only showed up after the world ending cataclysm that nearly killed everyone

I got vague Dr Manhatten vibes off MM from his few line deliveries, it would be fun if he was basically Dr M who gave slightly more of a poo poo. "I have decided today I would prefer to not let the world end"

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

I snapped Darkseid's neck thirty five minutes ago.

Glad you all had fun with the time travel nightmare though

well why not
Feb 10, 2009




Megaman's Jockstrap posted:

Snyder didn't know Swanwick was MM until after BvS. The scene at the end was shot in such a way that it could be either a Lantern or MM (Affleck's reactions are neutral) and Snyder wanted Jon Stewart. When he couldn't get WB approval for the Lantern, he did MM.

Is this definitely true? Because there's definitely something up with him during Man Of Steel. The scene where everyone backs away as Superman walks towards the mirror includes a shot of Superman speaking "to his own reflection" while addressing Swanwick.

I know now that our current knowledge colours this, but it's very very intentional seeming shot.

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice

well why not posted:

Is this definitely true? Because there's definitely something up with him during Man Of Steel. The scene where everyone backs away as Superman walks towards the mirror includes a shot of Superman speaking "to his own reflection" while addressing Swanwick.

I know now that our current knowledge colours this, but it's very very intentional seeming shot.

I think Swanwick being an alien was decided as of BvS, not afterwards.

Megaman's Jockstrap
Jul 16, 2000

What a horrible thread to have a post.

well why not posted:

Is this definitely true? Because there's definitely something up with him during Man Of Steel. The scene where everyone backs away as Superman walks towards the mirror includes a shot of Superman speaking "to his own reflection" while addressing Swanwick.

Yes, there are some very interesting things about that scene, but I heard it in an interview with Snyder himself. I can't find the source though right now - sorry.

LesterGroans
Jun 9, 2009

It's funny...

You were so scary at night.
Yeah, I think he decided it for BvS, but there are some cool happy accidents in MoS looking back on it. For all we know, those could be why he decided to make Swanwick MM

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!
I kind of like how "I'm about as American as it gets" becomes "I'm more American than you are"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnAagjXDOBI&t=41s

cargohills
Apr 18, 2014

Megaman's Jockstrap posted:

The only additional shooting was for the Knightmare scene; the MM/Lantern scene was filmed back in 2016.

This is wrong, the Martian Manhunter scene was a reshoot. The shot of Swanwick leaving Lois' apartment was a reshoot as well.

Megaman's Jockstrap
Jul 16, 2000

What a horrible thread to have a post.

cargohills posted:

This is wrong, the Martian Manhunter scene was a reshoot. The shot of Swanwick leaving Lois' apartment was a reshoot as well.

I'm sorry but this is incorrect according to my sources, which is a Deborah Snyder interview with The Insider.

https://www.insider.com/justice-league-snyder-cut-how-joker-scene-was-made-2021-3

Go over there, you'll see her saying that the only additional shooting was for the Knightmare. Also, Snyder has been showing off his Martian Manhunter transformation storyboard for years. Here's an article from 2019, you can see the storyboard for the sequence in it. Snyder storyboards ALL scenes in pre-production before he shoots them, which means that storyboard panel was probably drawn in 2016.

https://cosmicbook.news/zack-snyder-martian-manhunter-harry-lennix

Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Mar 30, 2021

LesterGroans
Jun 9, 2009

It's funny...

You were so scary at night.
I think they redid Affleck's sides? But I'm not sure where I heard that.

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003

Affleck looks pretty noticeably different in that scene, although it's hard to compare to the new Knightmare footage because of the big rubber mask in that one

roffels
Jul 27, 2004

Yo Taxi!

Megaman's Jockstrap posted:

I'm sorry but this is incorrect according to my sources, which is a Deborah Snyder interview with The Insider.

https://www.insider.com/justice-league-snyder-cut-how-joker-scene-was-made-2021-3

Go over there, you'll see her saying that the only additional shooting was for the Knightmare. Also, Snyder has been showing off his Martian Manhunter transformation storyboard for years. Here's an article from 2019, you can see the storyboard for the sequence in it. Snyder storyboards ALL scenes in pre-production before he shoots them, which means that storyboard panel was probably drawn in 2016.


https://cosmicbook.news/zack-snyder-martian-manhunter-harry-lennix

The Knightmare is the only completely new scene, but Harry Lennix was part of the reshoots:

quote:

Lennix filmed his new scenes for 'Zack Snyder's Justice League' in August and October 2020
Technically, there's only one completely new scene that was filmed for the "Snyder Cut," which was Bruce Wayne's dream where Batman and the Joker speak with one another for the first time.

But Lennix also filmed scenes so he could be put into the new version of the movie.

"I did most of my work off of a green screen," Lennix said of the Martha Kent/Bruce Wayne scenes. "I did two-part days. There was one day I went in August and did the scene at the elevator and then I did the other scene with Ben Affleck. I did that sometime in October."

Snyder told the ReelBlend podcast that Lennix filmed the first scene in his driveway in August.

Lennix also talks about it here around the 6 minute mark:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZnByCRNdIc

roffels fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Mar 30, 2021

Megaman's Jockstrap
Jul 16, 2000

What a horrible thread to have a post.
Ok, well then I stand corrected!

Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012
If the epilogue MM scene was originally intended to be John Stewart, that makes a lot of sense.

Just floating down & saying "hi im an alien let me join you (:" is lame as balls for a shapeshifter, but makes slightly more sense for the space cops.

Mr. Apollo
Nov 8, 2000

On Vero Snyder said they shot the whole scene except for Harry’s part. Snyder said he directed that over Zoom. Like with Ezra’s bit in the Knightmare.

wyoming
Jun 7, 2010

Like a television
tuned to a dead channel.
You know they've been through some poo poo in the Knightmare because Barry is absolutely quiet.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:

Darko posted:

Explains why she and Jonathan couldn't have kids of their own.
That was actually what sealed the deal for me.

stratdax
Sep 14, 2006

So you think martian Manhunter was posing as a lady on a farm in Kansas for some reason? And then baby superman lands in that farm? That's one hell of a coincidence.

After letting it stew for a few days, I think I've soured a bit on this movie and think it was kind of dull. For all the talk of the emotional heart being Cyborg, that amount to "not much". 4 hours and there is so little emotional content. I've never seen a film so long with so little in the way of characters actually forming bonds with each other. I dunno if it's a lack of chemistry between the actors, or if Snyder is just not good at that particular part of movie making (another notable example being Nolan), but people are comparing this to LOTR...but I was more invested in those characters and their relationships within the first 20 minutes of Fellowship.

If Snyder was going for "ponderous", then man, he nailed it.

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005

https://twitter.com/JoeManganiello/status/1377094986102018051?s=19

Joe is on board

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:

stratdax posted:

So you think martian Manhunter was posing as a lady on a farm in Kansas for some reason? And then baby superman lands in that farm? That's one hell of a coincidence.
He knew superbaby would land on that form.

SuperMechagodzilla
Jun 9, 2007

NEWT REBORN

stratdax posted:

After letting it stew for a few days, I think I've soured a bit on this movie and think it was kind of dull. For all the talk of the emotional heart being Cyborg, that amount to "not much". 4 hours and there is so little emotional content. I've never seen a film so long with so little in the way of characters actually forming bonds with each other. I dunno if it's a lack of chemistry between the actors, or if Snyder is just not good at that particular part of movie making (another notable example being Nolan), but people are comparing this to LOTR...but I was more invested in those characters and their relationships within the first 20 minutes of Fellowship.

The movie isn’t about the characters bonding and, like, hugging eachother. There are plenty of moments like Diana opening up to Victor about her grief, but the characters are fundamentally not united as a family or whatever. Instead, they’re all about beating up the space fascists.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised.
Apparently 'Apocalypse' in its original meaning isn't the end of the world, but revealed knowledge. Given Darkseid's whole thing, Apokalips is probably very much a deliberate reference.

SuperMechagodzilla posted:

The movie isn’t about the characters bonding and, like, hugging eachother. There are plenty of moments like Diana opening up to Victor about her grief, but the characters are fundamentally not united as a family or whatever. Instead, they’re all about beating up the space fascists.

This is also actually in line with most depictions iirc; the Justice League are among the most powerful people on Earth and they know it, but they aren't necessarily a bunch of Super Friends in the same way that other superhero teams united by commonalities are. Apparently someone said in the comics "The Justice League are a strike force, the Justice Society are a family."

massive spider
Dec 6, 2006

Its really obvious in contrast with the Whedon cut where they're doing a bunch of obnoxious backslapping. (and the "I work with children" line cements Wonder Woman as Mom of the Team).

One thing I liked is that the shot of them all standing in a line heroically victorious after the final fight has context, they're standing like that because they're literally waiting for the aircraft door to open. They're pleased with themselves but it's still like they're waiting for an elevator together or something.

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Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Ghost Leviathan posted:

Apparently 'Apocalypse' in its original meaning isn't the end of the world, but revealed knowledge. Given Darkseid's whole thing, Apokalips is probably very much a deliberate reference.

Yep. I think the root of the word in Ancient Greek was literally 'uncovering.' Hence, revelation. Hence, Book of Revelation.

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