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I like every human character and plot in all these movies. Yes Ford, yes Bernie, yes Wolf Dad, yes Slipco.
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Apr 3, 2021 07:53
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Movie seen It was good I didn't fall asleep during the fight scenes like I did with KotM (twice!) Kong lost, but at least Godzilla respected his help enough not to finish him
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Apr 3, 2021 07:55
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One of the best running gags in this movie (and to an extent even harking back to KotM) is that Monarch, except for one guy who nobody takes seriously, doesn't believe in -- or at least disavows -- the existence of the Hollow Earth tunnels. Godzilla's ability to "instantly" travel from one part of the world to another is a source of bafflement and embarrasment to them, even though they literally guard one of the entrances, and similarly Monarch's attempt to avoid Godzilla's "territorial waters" is a complete failure. And of course it is -- Godzilla / class consciousness is properly global in scope. It couldn't be otherwise. And of course APEX / global capitalism has its own (privately owned, naturally) parallel to this in its magical underground monorail system which effectively erases the distinction between Florida and Hong Kong. Monarch gets repeatedly owned by their failure to think in international terms and APEX and the titans both run circles around them as a result. And MechaG is only a half-realized vanity project until APEX is able to expand to a truly world-wide scope by robbing the Hollow Earth of its resources -- the marriage of capitalism and imperialism, enabled in part by Kong's decision (under duress and false pretenses, but still) to cooperate with his oppressors.
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Apr 3, 2021 08:08
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MechaG existing to combat existential threats to humanity that are never shown on screen outside the credits (and are implicitly the same general kind of entity as Godzilla) also fits perfectly into this reading -- like the War on Terror, the "threats" in question are both wildly exaggerated and when they exist, they're usually problems we either created or provoked. MechaG also depends on these forces to the point of literally being powered by them -- and more specifically by a combination of their dead and their children. So why does Godzilla "instinctively" hate this necromantic embodiment of global subjugation, built on corpses and child labor? Gee, it's a mystery.
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Apr 3, 2021 08:17
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Probably been brought up before, but came up elsewhere that a monster derived from Ghidorah, based on Orochi, is ultimately brought low by liquor, paralysing him and allowing the heroes to finish him off. Also that Kong's axe may be made out of the remains of one of Godzilla's species.
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Apr 3, 2021 12:15
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The actual writing in Godzilla vs. Kong is just semi-coherent rote stuff to pace out timing between the money scenes. Which has been the case for all of the new godzilla movies. The only movie that had an idea of what to write the movie around was Skull Island, where most of the cast has something to do, there is a strong gimmick to the whole thing, and there is even something resembling a plot. In these ones it's just generally assumed you want to see your favorite B-list actors do a little bit of light exposition. This one in particular feels like they edited a lot of stuff out to keep the pacing up and remove side plot that probably wasn't even serviceable. Lance Reddick shows up for three seconds, Kyle Chandler is totally unnecessary here, and if all this cut stuff was as good as what they left in I absolutely don't care. However, the first two Godzilla movies at least gave a proper sense of scale to Godzilla and built him up properly as an impossibly enormous deity. In this one he just kind of shows up, does his big wrestling moves for the fans, and they do a finish that puts both guys over. Basic stuff. I do appreciate that this isn't the latest overstuffed 2h45m movie.
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Apr 3, 2021 13:16
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Oh yeah, I got pretty much the same vibe this is a movie cut to the bone, but makes sense that the flesh wasn't worth much. Hell, I got strong vibes of the first Bayformers movie complete with a nearly irrelevant subplot with diverse hackers. (I swear that must be in some Hollywood script cheat sheet)
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Apr 3, 2021 13:26
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:What actually allows them to deal some damage to APEX / MechaG / capitalism is when they hit upon the idea of destroying the system, which disrupts MechaG just for a second, but a crucial second in the context of the larger fight. I appreciate your effort here, but dumping scotch on a computer isn’t “destroying the capitalist system” - even metaphorically. It’s literally just destroying that computer system, which belongs to a single company. The guy restocking shelves at the bleach store isn’t really affected in any way, positively or negatively, by the destruction of those two factories. It’s also inaccurate to dis on The Ape Whisperer. It’s extremely poorly conveyed, but Kong’s ecosystem was just randomly obliterated offscreen and, to her knowledge, he cannot survive elsewhere. Ape Whisperer and her organization are actually spending untold billions of dollars on a Truman Show reference to keep Kong not-dead. (Where is that funding coming from? Are they live-streaming this for subscribers?) She’s for sure a white lady, but her actual failing is presented as overprotectiveness; they quickly learn that Godzilla isn’t actually interested in killing Kong, and Kong figures out the submissive postures easily enough. They could have simply released him and let him go to South America or something, but she’s like “he might face challenges in the real world!” The link between this coddling and her daughter is obvious, even though it’s a lot less clear how the daughter is affected. In any case, it’s the villains who actually help Kong. But anyways, back to the main point: the conspiracy guy refers to the bad corporate types as “lizard people” because ha-ha conspiracy theories are so wacky. Except “lizard people” has always been code for The Jews. This is not a revolution. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 14:56 on Apr 3, 2021 |
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Apr 3, 2021 14:52
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:It’s extremely poorly conveyed, but Kong’s ecosystem was just randomly obliterated offscreen This would have been the perfect way to introduce the little girl and her relationship with Kong. Have the movie open from Kong's perspective. He wakes up because of the sound of a terrible storm approaching. He sees it roll over the hills, killing baby Skull Crawlers and destroying villages. He rushes down to find the little girl sheltering under some debris, the last survivor. They look up in the sky and see a terrible three headed lizard flying in the sky with yellow lightning, the eye of the storm following it. KingG's storm disrupted the natural hurricane surrounding Skull Island. Now, with the storm gone and his camouflage gone, the titans and humans of the world become aware of Kong just as he wants to seek revenge against the lizard monsters that killed his community. He and the little girl must learn to trust other titans. Yeah, yeah, it's even more like BvS but I consider that the gold standard of Vs movies. 
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Apr 3, 2021 15:57
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:But anyways, back to the main point: the conspiracy guy refers to the bad corporate types as “lizard people” because ha-ha conspiracy theories are so wacky. Except “lizard people” has always been code for The Jews. This is not a revolution. I mean if that's the angle you're going to come at it from, it might be significant that by the end of the movie, Bernie's rooting for the lizard.  Character growth! Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Apr 3, 2021 |
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Apr 3, 2021 16:02
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:But anyways, back to the main point: the conspiracy guy refers to the bad corporate types as “lizard people” because ha-ha conspiracy theories are so wacky. Except “lizard people” has always been code for The Jews. Yeah, that is a little problematic. I said it before, but it's weird MBB's character needed Alex Jones to lead her around and solve the mysteries. She should be a part of Monarch. And hell, Apex should have been Project Apex, a division within Monarch to build a krypton bullet in case they ever need it... I loving know, I'm just reheating BvS again but it writes itself. I don't see the need for two overweight comic relief characters following MBB around. The conspiracy guy could have been a normal scientist doubting what he was building and trying to find out more about the project, the NZ kid could have an intern for comic relief, and MBB is trying to piece it all together as she works with the little Skull Island girl to cope with her grief since she has experience with losing her family. She could be part of Monarch's support infrastructure for families or something, just spit balling here. It turns out Project Apex has gone rogue and CIA-like and is willing to work with terrorists to buy the KingG head to build their monster. Edit: A whole lot of dumb fanfic here, which is weird because when I watch the movie I get wrapped up in it and fine with it but then I noodle on it afterwards.
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Apr 3, 2021 16:04
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Nah, Bernie's character flaws and dubious authority are actually pretty important to the story the movie's trying to tell. He's not a professional or an expert, and he is, especially at the beginning of the movie, a crank. He's not much of a role model and his influence on the kids should make you concerned. Like Kong (and Nathan, and Ren...) he could very easily be swayed one way or the other, and even by the end of the movie his conversion is still shaky and based on making one correct decision under pressure and not entirely voluntarily -- it could change again. But it's a start. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Apr 3, 2021 |
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Apr 3, 2021 16:09
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Godzilla is obviously tsundere for Kong
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Apr 3, 2021 16:14
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Like Kong (and Nathan, and Ren...) he could very easily be swayed one way or the other, and even by the end of the movie his conversion is still shaky and based on making one correct decision under pressure and not entirely voluntarily -- it could change again. But it's a start. I believe you could be correct, buy I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about. I've only seen it twice, but I remember the three of them basically fumbling into success constantly and Bernie's conspiracies being proven more or less correct. I don't remember any particular growth or decisions or people that he had to trust that challenged his worldview.
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Apr 3, 2021 16:21
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Violator posted:I believe you could be correct, buy I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about. I've only seen it twice, but I remember the three of them basically fumbling into success constantly and Bernie's conspiracies being proven more or less correct. I don't remember any particular growth or decisions or people that he had to trust that challenged his worldview. He's initially reluctant to trust anyone else at all, no matter who they are, feeling smugly superior to anyone who doesn't know as much as he does, and on a more abstract level, he's spent five years working for Apex and implicitly not actually accomplishing much of anything. Even his big "leak" is "hey, this robotics and biotech company is building weapons" -- it's like sure, okay, and? But by the end he's taken one small step away from irrelevant suspicions, stuff that's kind of perpendicular to the actual struggle, towards active resistance.
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Apr 3, 2021 16:28
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I wanted to see the weird poo poo that happens in his head when Serizawa's son psychically bonds with the remnants of a dead space god, instead I got fluoride jokes.
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Apr 3, 2021 17:50
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Good
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Apr 3, 2021 17:52
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Ok
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Apr 3, 2021 17:53
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We'd have learned that Ghidorah is nothing more than an alien empire's mass produced bioweapon, so not seeing Ren's drifting experience preserved the mystery and terror of Godzilla's greatest enemy.
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Apr 3, 2021 17:59
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Violator posted:Yeah, yeah, it's even more like BvS but I consider that the gold standard of Vs movies. This comparison really points to the ultimate failure of the movie. Nobody in the audience, even for a second, believes that Godzilla's the baddie here. Yet, in the movie, the entire plot hinges on Godzilla being this terrifying threat. Even Milly B is like "there's got to be a reason for why he did this horrible crime!" But the actual scene is perfunctory, he's attacking this corporate facility that nobody could possibly care about, and the conspiracy poo poo + big close-up on the orb instantly tell anyone with a mind that Godzilla is attracted to the orb because the company is evil. Then Mechagodzilla is revealed to the public anyways, two days later. It can't really be over-emphasized how much this blows as a mystery narrative. You can imagine an alternate version where the conspiracy theory turns out to be false and Godzilla is just smashing a normal Amazon HQ or something. Literally every character would agree that Godzilla needs to be put down.
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Apr 3, 2021 18:26
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:It can't really be over-emphasized how much this blows as a mystery narrative. This frustrated me more than anything else, it's a complete waste of time revealing a mystery that no one was even really keeping secret.
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Apr 3, 2021 19:13
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:This comparison really points to the ultimate failure of the movie. Nobody in the audience, even for a second, believes that Godzilla's the baddie here. Yet, in the movie, the entire plot hinges on Godzilla being this terrifying threat. Even Milly B is like "there's got to be a reason for why he did this horrible crime!" They don't even have the courtesy to have the evil corporation lie or cover anything up! CEO guy tells Skarsgard, "We need to go the Hollow Earth to build a weapon to defeat Godzilla." The only misleading thing about what he says is implying how far along the weapon building process they are.
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Apr 3, 2021 19:27
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reminded me of a theme park simulator ride which was cool i guess. audio mix seemed unfinished like it was cutting out or something during dialog. very nice colored lighting and detailed rendering but no relatable characters to ground it so i already forgot everything that happened. theres hardly any camera angles from a human street level perspective because the movie doesent care about people, they are just part of the background environment in a non interactive round of mortal kombat: 3 rounds, fatality, back to character select. put in another quarter if you want to waste your time again. probably didnt help that shout factory tv was playing return of ultraman episodes yesterday and i was still thinking about this kid and his alien dad digging for a spaceship to leave earth with. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaJhOSmZtHQ
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Apr 3, 2021 19:55
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Charlatan Eschaton posted:reminded me of a theme park simulator ride which was cool i guess. Yeah this has been mentioned before but I really agree; those flying cars felt super similar to something like the Back to the Future ride https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feaC30j1D3s
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Apr 3, 2021 20:30
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lol man i loved all those things especially charlton hestons calming reassurance that everything on the screen was just movie magic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__kMc-O-G7c&t=49s
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Apr 3, 2021 20:55
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Clarity question: At least one of the Ghidorah skulls actually remains intact, yes? There's a throwaway line that Serizawa Jr. is able to pilot McG because the skull he's in is being used as a telepathic link to another one inside the robot. Kong rips off McG's head, and although we don't see him spike it into the ground and stomp on it, it's probably a safe enough 70/30 bet to assume the skull inside is destroyed. But that still leaves us with the one in Apex HQ. I would have less than no problem with "satanic space dragon ghost" being revisited in hypothetical future sequels; there's a shitload of untapped potential there, and I've been dying to see more horror-oriented material in a kaiju flick since Cloverfield. I'll be honest and say that I was high as gently caress when I watched this. Might give it another go with my head screwed back on over the weekend.
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Apr 3, 2021 21:22
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POWELL CURES KIDS posted:Clarity question: At least one of the Ghidorah skulls actually remains intact, yes? There's a throwaway line that Serizawa Jr. is able to pilot McG because the skull he's in is being used as a telepathic link to another one inside the robot. Kong rips off McG's head, and although we don't see him spike it into the ground and stomp on it, it's probably a safe enough 70/30 bet to assume the skull inside is destroyed. But that still leaves us with the one in Apex HQ. I would have less than no problem with "satanic space dragon ghost" being revisited in hypothetical future sequels; there's a shitload of untapped potential there, and I've been dying to see more horror-oriented material in a kaiju flick since Cloverfield. The Ghidorah skull/brain is still in the facility, it never left. That's what that uplink was about with the computer.
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Apr 3, 2021 21:40
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Violator posted:This would have been the perfect way to introduce the little girl and her relationship with Kong. Have the movie open from Kong's perspective. He wakes up because of the sound of a terrible storm approaching. He sees it roll over the hills, killing baby Skull Crawlers and destroying villages. He rushes down to find the little girl sheltering under some debris, the last survivor. They look up in the sky and see a terrible three headed lizard flying in the sky with yellow lightning, the eye of the storm following it. KingG's storm disrupted the natural hurricane surrounding Skull Island. Now, with the storm gone and his camouflage gone, the titans and humans of the world become aware of Kong just as he wants to seek revenge against the lizard monsters that killed his community. He and the little girl must learn to trust other titans. Lmao, this would've been amazing.
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Apr 3, 2021 21:59
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MANKIND IS INTRODUCED TO THE KING
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Apr 3, 2021 23:31
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I don’t think there’s any denying that a shot-for-shot remake of BVS would have been vastly superior to what we got. There’s so much wasted potential, like that “holy poo poo Kong can speak!” And then he basically says “home” twice (in an obvious downgrade from the Jackson film).
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Apr 3, 2021 23:54
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Violator posted:I believe you could be correct, buy I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about. I've only seen it twice, but I remember the three of them basically fumbling into success constantly and Bernie's conspiracies being proven more or less correct. I don't remember any particular growth or decisions or people that he had to trust that challenged his worldview. The entire movie hinges on several moments like this, where a character makes a wild unsupported guess about something "There's probably a mysterious power source in the hollow earth ..... and Kong probably has racial memories of it somehow so if we took him there he'd undoubtedly lead us directly to it!" and then everyone else decided to go all in on it to the point where they continually risk their lives and the lives of everyone around them "Godzilla would probably kill us all if we tried that ..... but sure, let's risk thousands of people's lives and billions of dollars worth of warships on this insane plan which has zero evidence it might ever work!" but they turn out to be right in the end, what awesome luck!
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Apr 4, 2021 01:01
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This movie was my kind of wonderful nonsense, but good lord that conspiracy subplot was dire. All-time great fights, though. I just wish they'd kept Bear McCreary and paid Toho the money for the Ifukube themes. The score here was okay, but KOTM had one of my favorite soundtracks ever.
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Apr 4, 2021 01:31
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The BvS comparison is almost fully plumbed as a topic but this movie would benefit from a scene where Kong did CrossFit.
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Apr 4, 2021 02:35
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Wasn't Metallo originally going to be the big bad in BvS instead of Doomsday? Lol
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Apr 4, 2021 02:47
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Martman posted:Wasn't Metallo originally going to be the big bad in BvS instead of Doomsday? Lol Apparently so, I saw this a few days ago: https://batman-news.com/2018/03/05/batman-v-superman-metallo-villain/
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Apr 4, 2021 03:07
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well why not posted:The BvS comparison is almost fully plumbed as a topic but this movie would benefit from a scene where Kong did CrossFit. Kong's throneroom needed a giant ape gym
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Apr 4, 2021 03:15
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I'm rather impressed Kong's throne room had a godzilla skeleton embedded in the floor that absorbs and channels radiation that can then be used to empower their weapons Also why and how is that that a thing? Also is there a compilation of the redacted text from the opening credits anywhere? The tidbits in those were a lot of fun and gave a lot of insight into the culture about the titans from KotM
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Apr 4, 2021 03:27
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McSpanky posted:Kong's throneroom needed a giant ape gym Shoulda went fully wacky and have it have a full armory. Kong decked out in plate armor crafted out of Godzilla dorsal fins armed with his Godzilla dorsal fin axe would have been hilarious. Also wish it was now a spear instead of an axe.
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Apr 4, 2021 03:41
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The weirdest thing for me - and it's a total Me Thing - is that a handful of hours since I've seen the movie and I can't really remember poo poo about it. Normally I'd chalk it up to just having enough stuff on my plate that it just fell out, whatever, but... there's nothing there to even talk about. I'm just glad Godzilla won, but that's just me.
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Apr 4, 2021 04:36
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MisterBibs posted:The weirdest thing for me - and it's a total Me Thing - is that a handful of hours since I've seen the movie and I can't really remember poo poo about it. Normally I'd chalk it up to just having enough stuff on my plate that it just fell out, whatever, but... there's nothing there to even talk about. Makes sense since there are no domestic box office numbers to compute the film's relative quality. 
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Apr 4, 2021 04:50
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