|
Detective No. 27 posted:Cyborg still needed Superman's strength to pull apart the mother boxes. And it didn't look like Superman did it effortlessly. SUperman's also the only reason Cyborg got a shot at entering it to begin with. They simply didn't have time on their side. Cyborg needed to deal with the boxes and Aquaman and Wonder Woman needed Cyborg to deal with Steppenwolf
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 20:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 16, 2024 15:39 |
|
|
Jerk McJerkface posted:I went and saw Affleck's Dare Devil during a period when I was extremely depressed and seriously considering suicide. I decided to be more outgoing and try to have more friends. A group of casual friends we going to see it and I went with them. After the movie I used the bathroom, as you do, and when I came out they had all forgotten I was there and left. I feel terrible for laughing at this I hope you're feeling better these days! 
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 20:15
|
|
|
They were also really, really struggling with Steppenwolf prior to Superman turning up, the only reason they got that sick fatality on him at the end was because he punched off all of his seemingly inpenetrable armour that had deflected every other attack against it throughout the film. Without Superman just brutalising him for a couple of minutes there was no trident through the back or decapitation
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 20:16
|
|
|
Jerk McJerkface posted:I went and saw Affleck's Dare Devil during a period when I was extremely depressed and seriously considering suicide. I decided to be more outgoing and try to have more friends. A group of casual friends we going to see it and I went with them. After the movie I used the bathroom, as you do, and when I came out they had all forgotten I was there and left. Heard joke once: Man goes to doctor. Says he's depressed. Says life seems harsh and cruel. Says he feels all alone in a threatening world where what lies ahead is vague and uncertain. Doctor says, 'Treatment is simple. Great movie Daredevil is in town tonight. Go and see it. That should pick you up.' Man bursts into tears. Says, 'But doctor…it's capeshit.' Good joke. Everybody laugh. Roll on snare drum. Curtains.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 20:30
|
|
|
Jerk McJerkface posted:I went and saw Affleck's Dare Devil during a period when I was extremely depressed and seriously considering suicide. I decided to be more outgoing and try to have more friends. A group of casual friends we going to see it and I went with them. After the movie I used the bathroom, as you do, and when I came out they had all forgotten I was there and left. If it makes you feel better, they probably just got so pumped by Evanescence that they had to raid a gym
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 20:38
|
|
|
If they didn't bring Superman back though, they wouldn't have needed to split attention because Steppenwolf wouldn't have had all three boxes. The time pressure was self-inflicted.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 21:12
|
|
|
Bringing Superman back was an act of faith, and one that turns out was the right call, in the end (and after some light time traveling)
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 21:26
|
|
|
josh04 posted:If they didn't bring Superman back though, they wouldn't have needed to split attention because Steppenwolf wouldn't have had all three boxes. The time pressure was self-inflicted.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 21:34
|
|
|
josh04 posted:If they didn't bring Superman back though, they wouldn't have needed to split attention because Steppenwolf wouldn't have had all three boxes. The time pressure was self-inflicted. Prior to the resurrection they were in a stalemate position. They can't beat Steppenwolf, but Steppenwolf can't find the third box. The third box is waking up, but they can keep moving it around. As Bruce says, though, "That's a strategy to lose slowly." Bringing back Superman is a leap of faith to turn a stalemate-to-losing position into a victory.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 21:34
|
|
|
FilthyImp posted:Bats says they just have a delaying tactic by moving the box around, not a way to win It's so hard to make a movie with the Flash in it because the answer could always be "lure Steppenwolf to a place and have the Flash ram something into him at meteoric speed making him explode"
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 21:35
|
|
|
FilthyImp posted:Bats says they just have a delaying tactic by moving the box around, not a way to win pospysyl posted:Prior to the resurrection they were in a stalemate position. They can't beat Steppenwolf, but Steppenwolf can't find the third box. The third box is waking up, but they can keep moving it around. As Bruce says, though, "That's a strategy to lose slowly." Bringing back Superman is a leap of faith to turn a stalemate-to-losing position into a victory. I get it, but once "bring back Superman" is on the table Bats really isn't countenancing any other strategy. He's desperate for that leap of faith against all reason.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 21:44
|
|
|
I think it's pretty easy to see it as Batman hearing it's possible and desparate to do it to make up for his actions out of guilt. Sort of like in BvS how he immediately jumps into action to save a woman with the same name as his mom.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 21:50
|
|
|
Probably my favourite thing about the whole resurrection sequence is how increasingly angry Batman gets at anyone expressing doubt. Telling Aquaman to shut up lol
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 22:13
|
|
|
There's a decent movie buried somewhere in Affleck Daredevil but you really gotta hunt for it and the film as a whole is pretty rough. The costume is pretty good even if the mask is a little wonky. Colin Farrell and MCD I liked a lot and they make the most of the most of what they have. Ben wasn't as bad as I expected. There was some interesting stuff going on with the pain pills, the sensory deprivation tank and the way they depicted the radar sense. A few of the fights were pretty cool -- the one in Josie's Bar in particular. But they piled so much stupid bullshit on it that totally overpowered the stuff they got right. The CGI was over the top. There was a ton or cornball crap (playground fight. "DD" logo made of fire. The music video scenes. Paper clip killing) Similar to a lot of DC movies, I think they tried to cram too much poo poo into it as well and that dragged down the plot and the overall experience. Maybe save Elektra and/or Bullseye for the sequel. We didn't get enough of Matt being a lawyer, the conflict that him being DD creates for his friends and his career. Tonally it was just all over the loving place and Garner was loving terrible. It's one of those flims I'll rewatch from time to time expecting it to be better than I remembered only to have it confirmed that it did, in fact, suck pretty bad. The director's cut is an improvement but still not good. I'd say maybe a third of it is a decent enough watch. Thank god we got the Netflix series which mostly nailed everything.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 22:18
|
|
|
BiggerBoat posted:There's a decent movie buried somewhere in Affleck Daredevil but you really gotta hunt for it and the film as a whole is pretty rough. Oh God no, anything beyond the first season was more dire than the movie, including the big crossover where Daredevil was somehow worse than Iron Fist.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 22:49
|
|
|
Darko posted:Oh God no, anything beyond the first season was more dire than the movie, including the big crossover where Daredevil was somehow worse than Iron Fist. I'm crippled by the weight of all the content Marvel expects you to consume. I just can't even be bothered to keep up with it. I find myself more interested in re-watching Seinfeld or Parks and Rec rather than starting on the path of trying to keep up with the MCU. I'm almost relieved that there's no more DCEU to deal with.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2021 00:05
|
|
|
Jerk McJerkface posted:I'm crippled by the weight of all the content Marvel expects you to consume. I just can't even be bothered to keep up with it. I find myself more interested in re-watching Seinfeld or Parks and Rec rather than starting on the path of trying to keep up with the MCU. I'm almost relieved that there's no more DCEU to deal with. Marvel stealth rebooted things that matter and its just Wandavision and Falcon and such now. Despite my misgivings with them, they are better than the other stuff because they aren't stretched as far in episode order. Jessica Jones would have been brilliant if it wasn't double the size it needed to be and had the villain constantly getting away to extend it over and over.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2021 00:28
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:A rewatch of this movie really underscores what an incredibly bad idea resurrecting Superman was. Like, the power trio of Wonder Woman, Cyborg, and Aquaman definitely could have just beaten Steppenwolf toe-to-toe and that would've been the end of it. If you look on the Second Coming with more fear than awe, then frankly you need to get right with God before Judgment Day does come.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2021 00:32
|
|
|
Darko posted:Jessica Jones would have been brilliant if it wasn't double the size it needed to be and had the villain constantly getting away to extend it over and over. they really should've done a few one off procedural type episodes of Jones just taking cases before ramping up to the Killmonger stuff
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2021 00:39
|
|
|
josh04 posted:If they didn't bring Superman back though, they wouldn't have needed to split attention because Steppenwolf wouldn't have had all three boxes. The time pressure was self-inflicted. Yeah. Even if the box eventually woke on its own such that Steppenwolf could lock on and come for it, I think they could have just fought him to a standstill. The Superman-less JL actually did quite well even with the time pressure the Unity presented. This would also be an act of faith of sorts, but it's one that doesn't directly reverse Batman's greatest sin, soo...
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2021 00:55
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:Yeah. Even if the box eventually woke on its own such that Steppenwolf could lock on and come for it, I think they could have just fought him to a standstill. The Superman-less JL actually did quite well even with the time pressure the Unity presented. Couldn't break the box apart even going inside without Zeus level power, which even WW doesn't have. Superman is the last one on earth (besides Flash, different story) with old God level power that can be applied directly.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2021 01:26
|
|
|
Darko posted:Marvel stealth rebooted things that matter and its just Wandavision and Falcon and such now. Despite my misgivings with them, they are better than the other stuff because they aren't stretched as far in episode order. Man ain’t that the truth. Every one of those Netflix seasons were at least twice as long as they should have been. It’s kind of a shame because the Daredevil and Luke Cage actors were pretty decent. One reason I like Snyder’s DCU stuff is that it moves around and stays pretty interesting. There is actual character development occasionally. The only interesting thing to happen in the MCU in years imo, is the Falcon and Winter Soldier went to Night City, and it was visually interesting.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2021 01:27
|
|
|
Jessica Jones is a great five hour show that takes ten hours to watch. Luke Cage and The Punisher are the same. Daredevil was a bit better paced in the first season.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2021 02:41
|
|
|
well why not posted:Jessica Jones is a great five hour show that takes ten hours to watch. Luke Cage and The Punisher are the same. Daredevil season 1 had three or four episodes that were mostly flashbacks while nothing happened in the present. It was absolutely way too loving long.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2021 02:54
|
|
|
I forgot that Jon Favreau was Foggy Nelson in the Daredevil movie. Jessica Jones S1 was something that I felt was so well done, I never watched anything else because I felt continuing the story beyond that point would devalue the first season. Which by all accounts I was right on about. I did watch Daredevil S2 and that was like, half pretty good and half... not. I do remember laughing a lot that the conclusion was that the Hand were... digging a big hole. I did think that Elodie Yung was a pretty good Elektra.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2021 03:06
|
|
|
I've fallen off the Disney+ Marvel stuff not because it's terrible, but I realized I just didn't care. Wandavision seemed to interest people mostly in the hope that it would all mean something or Dr Strange or Mr Fantastic or Howard the Duck or whoever would show up, and then they didn't and the story just kind of fizzled out. And I never cared about cameos or whatever and the small story of someone's grief became some (badly shot) punching and lasers and then ended telling us to tune in next time for Dr Strange 2 and I was done. With F&WS, I just still don't care. There's flag smashers and Zemo and US Agent and I just don't care what happens. I stopped a few minutes into ep 3, once again not because it was terrible, but because nothing interested me and so I bailed, because you don't actually have to watch these shows. If the show was about Falcon's sister and her money troubles, I would be more down, but a badly done spy story? Pass.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2021 03:26
|
|
|
Jessica Jones has some powerful liberal energy, but I will insist that seasons 1 & 2 contains the best work of the MCU (For one, that it's a serial series consistently shot with far more verve than most of the films).
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2021 03:36
|
|
|
Darko posted:Couldn't break the box apart even going inside without Zeus level power, which even WW doesn't have. Superman is the last one on earth (besides Flash, different story) with old God level power that can be applied directly. They wouldn't need to if they just beat Steppenwolf straight-up when he came for box 3. The reason he got away with it as is is that Superman kicked the poo poo out of the rest of the League right before Steppenwolf showed.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2021 03:39
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:They wouldn't need to if they just beat Steppenwolf straight-up when he came for box 3. The reason he got away with it as is is that Superman kicked the poo poo out of the rest of the League right before Steppenwolf showed. The existing league fought Steppenwolf twice making no appreciable progress against his armor, general prowess, and teleportation though.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2021 03:42
|
|
|
VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:The existing league fought Steppenwolf twice making no appreciable progress against his armor, general prowess, and teleportation though. They straight up forced him to retreat beneath Gotham harbor and that was before Aquaman even got involved! It's not clear if the glowing blue eyes in the final scene meant that Steppenwolf was getting some sort of combat buff from the Unity, but even then the combo of Wonder Woman and Aquaman were basically able to match him. He was able to buy himself enough time against them to stop Cyborg but absent time pressure even the Atlantean/Amazon duo might have been enough given time and planning.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2021 03:50
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:They straight up forced him to retreat beneath Gotham harbor and that was before Aquaman even got involved! Diana says she's never seen someone as powerful as Steppenwolf before, maybe only one other being (Clark). Them being unable to subdue him is the main reason they even considered bringing Clark back using the motherbox (after learning it was even possible to do so).
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2021 03:52
|
|
|
VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:The existing league fought Steppenwolf twice making no appreciable progress against his armor, general prowess, and teleportation though. Just once I think
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2021 03:52
|
|
|
I'm counting the nuclear reactor fight prior to Supes arrival since we're discussing tactical verisimilitude instead of league decision-making. Yes, WW holds her own more or less (more less) but none of them can actually damage Steppenwolf, while he flings and throws each member of the league into and under walls. And this is him without having an objective the league would otherwise have to defend. He's far too strong, far too mobile.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2021 03:57
|
|
|
teagone posted:Diana says she's never seen someone as powerful as Steppenwolf before, maybe only one other being (Clark). Them being unable to subdue him is the main reason they even considered bringing Clark back using the motherbox (after learning it was even possible to do so). Yeah, Steppenwolf is stronger than any of them individually, but he and his parademons aren't quiiite a match for the non-Kryptonians working together. We see that across two fight scenes, one in which Steppenwolf is fought to a standstill and retreats and another in which he (almost) wins by running out the clock while Flash and Cyborg largely don't participate in any fighting. For sure, having Superman makes their victory a certainty rather than a struggle. But all they need is a little faith! VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:I'm counting the nuclear reactor fight prior to Supes arrival since we're discussing tactical verisimilitude instead of league decision-making. The converse is also true, though - Steppenwolf gets flung around a lot and batters but doesn't damage the League. Presumably in an alternate timeline Aquaman or Wonder Woman would stab Steppenwolf through the face after a pitched bossfight.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2021 04:01
|
|
|
He also has an army of unknown and possibly growing size and so far the League have been lucky that he’s been limiting his attacks to specifically searching for the boxes (and with seeming restraint for collateral damage all things considered) but they have no idea how things are going to escalate.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2021 04:08
|
|
|
teagone posted:Diana says she's never seen someone as powerful as Steppenwolf before, maybe only one other being (Clark). Them being unable to subdue him is the main reason they even considered bringing Clark back using the motherbox (after learning it was even possible to do so). This plus Wonder Woman defeated the Actual Greek God Ares who was there next to Zeus fighting in the mega battle against Darkseid back then so like, if she of all people is straight up saying Steppenwolf is the most powerful thing she ever encountered then that makes resurrecting Superman a lot more reasonable.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2021 04:08
|
|
|
[edit] ^^^this tooFerrinus posted:Yeah, Steppenwolf is stronger than any of them individually, but he and his parademons aren't quiiite a match for the non-Kryptonians working together. We see that across two fight scenes, one in which Steppenwolf is fought to a standstill and retreats and another in which he (almost) wins by running out the clock while Flash and Cyborg largely don't participate in any fighting. Steppenwolf didn't retreat really. He just hosed off because his interrogation of the STAR Labs folk got interrupted. He bested the league 100% in that fight, and ended the encounter by using Batman's tech armament against them. The league would've been screwed by the harbor flood if Aquaman didn't show up.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2021 04:13
|
|
|
teagone posted:[edit] ^^^this too Ah, so he didn't retreat, he just... retreated. And Aquaman wasn't even in play at that point! You might recall that, later, AM and WW were nearly a match for him on their own - no Flash at all, Cyborg firing like a couple blaster bolts and then getting preoccupied.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2021 04:30
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:Ah, so he didn't retreat, he just... retreated. And Aquaman wasn't even in play at that point! You might recall that, later, AM and WW were nearly a match for him on their own - no Flash at all, Cyborg firing like a couple blaster bolts and then getting preoccupied. Are we really arguing the merits of power levels and what constitutes being properly routed in a skirmish? Lol. If Arthur and Diana were a match for Steppenwolf, they would've subdued and/or killed him, instead they themselves were subdued by Steppenwolf.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2021 04:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 16, 2024 15:39 |
|
|
teagone posted:Are we really arguing the merits of power levels and what constitutes being properly routed in a skirmish? Lol. If Arthur and Diana were a match for Steppenwolf, they would've subdued and/or killed him, instead they themselves were subdued by Steppenwolf. Absolutely we are, yes. Power levels are crucially important to these movies. Like I said, I rewatched this the other day. In the final battle, Aquaman and Wonder Woman are, or are nearly, a match for Steppenwolf. He only "wins" by running out the clock - specifically, Diana and Arthur get buried by rubble for just long enough to allow Steppenwolf to go and ruin Cyborg's day. They break free ready to keep fighting only a few seconds afterward (though at that point Superman has showed up). Cyborg and Flash are almost entirely uninvolved. In the sewers, Steppenwolf could have just bwooped out immediately upon losing the hostages, but he decides he wants to kill the Amazon first. ...the thing is, he fails. He can't quite beat her, even though everyone but Wonder Woman is preoccupied. He retreats shortly after she blasts him down a tunnel and the rest of the League shows up to start throwing heavy ordnance at him. This squares with Steppenwolf telling Diana that she probably could have saved her sisters if she'd actually been on the scene when he came for the first box - she's not actually stronger than him, but strong enough to slow him down and maybe eventually beat him given enough help? Yeah, sure. What I'm saying here is that, ironically, resurrecting Superman represents an abandonment of faith for, like, gamer logic. We want to win, right? So we want to absolutely maximize our odds, right? Okay, what's the strongest thing we can possibly bring to bear, so powerful it practically obviates the rest of us?
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2021 04:56
|
|